Dressing room culture at Easter Road

[ozwoody]

while I am sorry to see Yogi go,it must be a relief for both him and hibs his tenure is finally up,great guy but clearly not up to the job,it got me thinking about our players over last few years and the power these guys have at easter road.

Going back to the days of Tony it seems the players have had a huge input off the pitch as to when a manager gets bounced and the problems a manager has with the players.We hear more of dressing room bust ups,hitting town after dismal performances,refusing to sit on the bench if not in first 11 etc at hibs than we seem to at any other club in the SPL (apart from Le Guen at Ibrox of course) And to listen to Ian Murray defending the current crop of wasters"if they want to go out,they will" stuns me as the words of the vice captain.Looking back.....

Mcleish........bust ups,drinking,"losing the dressing room"

Tony.........guys out on lash,Tony as the mate!

Collins........guys crying to boss because they were getting trained to hard!!!!

Mixu.........lost respect early because he was a teammate not long before

Yogi..........dressing room fights,on the town fights,and guys in the huff

Dont get me wrong,guys going out for a drink is no crime,but to do it on nights where we as supporters are hurting,shows a lack of respect to the club,the manager,and to us.But where is the leadership from the senior players or are the senior guys the ones instigating it?

The new manager I hope has a hard discipline record,he will need it by the looks of it,because the discipline in the changing room is a shambles.

Thoughts?

[Iain G]

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while I am sorry to see Yogi go,it must be a relief for both him and hibs his tenure is finally up,great guy but clearly not up to the job,it got me thinking about our players over last few years and the power these guys have at easter road.

Going back to the days of Tony it seems the players have had a huge input off the pitch as to when a manager gets bounced and the problems a manager has with the players.We hear more of dressing room bust ups,hitting town after dismal performances,refusing to sit on the bench if not in first 11 etc at hibs than we seem to at any other club in the SPL (apart from Le Guen at Ibrox of course) And to listen to Ian Murray defending the current crop of wasters"if they want to go out,they will" stuns me as the words of the vice captain.Looking back.....

Mcleish........bust ups,drinking,"losing the dressing room"

Tony.........guys out on lash,Tony as the mate!

Collins........guys crying to boss because they were getting trained to hard!!!!

Mixu.........lost respect early because he was a teammate not long before

Yogi..........dressing room fights,on the town fights,and guys in the huff

Dont get me wrong,guys going out for a drink is no crime,but to do it on nights where we as supporters are hurting,shows a lack of respect to the club,the manager,and to us.But where is the leadership from the senior players or are the senior guys the ones instigating it?

The new manager I hope has a hard discipline record,he will need it by the looks of it,because the discipline in the changing room is a shambles.

Thoughts?

As professional sportsmen, they should't be out on the lash for a big session, endof story...

[Hibercelona]

Its a lose/lose situation.

If the manager has no control over the dressing room, then players will go out on the lash all the time and not perform on the pitch, which will obviously result in the manager being sacked.

If the manager does have control over the dressing room, the whingers will just go running to a higher power, which will result in the manager being sacked.

I personally feel sorry for any manager who comes to ER these days. The players have a huge superiority complex and are nowhere near as good as they believe themselves to be.

If I became the new manager of Hibernian FC, my first task would be to offload the half of the squad that are wasters and promote a few youngsters to the first team.

I'd rather have some inexperienced hard workers in the squad than over-rated muppets who think they're too good for the club.

[ozwoody]

i guess what surprises me about the whole situation is that its not a new thing at easter road,but something that has been allowed to develop over a few years.
is it down to board,managers or the playing group? why is there no player discipline? and i dont mean pride in the jersey,thats long gone in football,but pride in themselves,it cant be just a "scottish culture" thing,as we have had numerious nationalities over the years,i am just totally at a loss to the answer.

god help the next manager if he doesnt stamp out rotten apples,as we will be here again in less than 2 seasons

[cockneymike]

But the problem is we don't really have any 'senior' players to whom the manager can look to lead the dressing room.

Hogg - isn't very good has been dropped, so his influence would be muted
Murray - is too slow, has barely kicked a ball this season, still respected tby fans, but limited input on the pitch
Rankin - same as Hogg
Hart - new guy, been in an out due to injury
De Graff - started poorly, and dropped for St J game
Riordan - playing well, but too moody to ever be seen as a proper leader, and a history of going out etc
Miller - played at the top level, but occasionally hides during games, and from afar doesn't seem like the leader type,
McBride - decent player, given the captaincy by default, don't know much about his influence around the dressing room
Bamba - wants away, and thinks he's better than Hibs, so is a negative influence.
Nish - see Hogg and Rankin

McGhee was so excited about signing Hartley as he knew that he was someone that he could trust to do what he needed doing in the dressing room, I don't think that we have anyone like that.

[cwilliamson85]

If you are a sportsman that goes out on the lash you obviously dont care about your career.

I would allow it for a couple of weeks when on holiday at the end of the season but be prepared to work it off when you get back.

End of

[stubru59]

With reputedly 16 players out of contract in the summer, there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

We can shift (without undue cost) the slackers, the drinkers and the no-users.

[Thigh ar la]

If you are a 'professional footballer' then surely a pre-requisite is to look after yourself and the club. It should be part of the job description. Likewise if you hold a job of responsibility and you go out the night before an early shift, get steaming and bollox up your work. You will have to pay the consequences. Nothing to say that they cant go out in the off-season or at times with no games coming up and in the inetrim go out for a meal with a couple of drinks. I agree that it shows absolutely no respect for the club and its fans. Can you imagine that attitude prevailing at the top clubs after bad results, the fans would not accept it. Surely its a basic requirement of any club and its players?

[cwilliamson85]

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If you are a 'professional footballer' then surely a pre-requisite is to look after yourself and the club. It should be part of the job description. Likewise if you hold a job of responsibility and you go out the night before an early shift, get steaming and bollox up your work. You will have to pay the consequences. Nothing to say that they cant go out in the off-season or at times with no games coming up and in the inetrim go out for a meal with a couple of drinks. I agree that it shows absolutely no respect for the club and its fans. Can you imagine that attitude prevailing at the top clubs after bad results, the fans would not accept it. Surely its a basic requirement of any club and its players?

It should not be tolerated at any club! big or small.

[SidBurns]

Wouldn't be my first pick fro the job but you'd like to think Terry Butcher would sort anyone out!?!

[Franck is God]

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With reputedly 16 players out of contract in the summer, there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

We can shift (without undue cost) the slackers, the drinkers and the no-users.

I personally think that's what Yogi was counting on but the board and the fans got cold feet waiting.

The new manager has to be given the full backing of the board and fans alike to do exactly what is needed and I'm afraid to say that if that means emptying fans favorites for players with a more professional outlook to their footballing career then so be it.

The last manager to do this was Mcleish when he effectively sacked our best player before a cup final that we actually had a chance of winning.

JC tried to do this but was not backed by the board or the fans and walked away as a result.

Mixu couldn't do it and to my regret either did Yogi.

[ozwoody]

i honestly thought murray would be man for the job as team leader in changing room,being at hibs,rangers,norwich he would have seen leaders helping players,pulling players up etc.but seeing his comments in the paper he seems to back the culture in our dressing room to the extent he even questions the fans aspirations as to what we should expect from our team!!

there is,and has been a rotten element in our changing room for over 5 years now,i believe it would take someone like butcher to come in and read them the riot act,anyone doesnt like it......they know where door is,and the fans would know straight away who were the instigators of trouble.

As well as getting a manager with experience,we need a tough one to deal with wasters and malingerers

[hibsbollah]

Its becoming more obvious with every passing day that John Collins was absolutely spot on.

[Peevemor]

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Its becoming more obvious with every passing day that John Collins was absolutely spot on.

In what respect?

[--------]

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Its becoming more obvious with every passing day that John Collins was absolutely spot on.

How many of his players are still at the club?

It would seem that both Paatelainen and Hughes managed to punt some troublemakers, and then brought in their own crop to replace them....

[jacomo]

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Its becoming more obvious with every passing day that John Collins was absolutely spot on.

Completely agree. Recognised an unprofessional attitude at the club and tried to do something about it. He was the man for the job.

[hibsbollah]

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In what respect?

In respect of the OP; 'the dressing room culture at Easter Road'.

[--------]

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Completely agree. Recognised an unprofessional attitude at the club and tried to do something about it. He was the man for the job.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but I now suspect that our present troubles began when RP apparently failed to back JC in the face of the players' deputation.

Mind you, I'd reckon that THAT was a lot more complex than it appeared at the time - what on earth was Tommy Craig's role in the club at the time?

[hibsbollah]

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what on earth was Tommy Craig's role in the club at the time?

Scouting for talent...i believe he recommended both Brian Kerr and Alan O'Brien, quite an achievement

[Danderhall Hibs]

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With reputedly 16 players out of contract in the summer, there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

We can shift (without undue cost) the slackers, the drinkers and the no-users.

We've done that already - I think the stats are 60odd out 40odd in since JC left!

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McGhee was so excited about signing Hartley as he knew that he was someone that he could trust to do what he needed doing in the dressing room, I don't think that we have anyone like that.

Excellent point - we've not got a proper captain(s). They're all either focussed on getting out on the peeve or don't have the respect of the others.

[--------]

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Scouting for talent...i believe he recommended both Brian Kerr and Alan O'Brien, quite an achievement

Oh yes - and eating apples in press conferences.

I sometimes wonder how JC would have done without Uncle Toamy's "experience" to "guide" him....

[ShanksSaidNo]

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while I am sorry to see Yogi go,it must be a relief for both him and hibs his tenure is finally up,great guy but clearly not up to the job,it got me thinking about our players over last few years and the power these guys have at easter road.

Going back to the days of Tony it seems the players have had a huge input off the pitch as to when a manager gets bounced and the problems a manager has with the players.We hear more of dressing room bust ups,hitting town after dismal performances,refusing to sit on the bench if not in first 11 etc at hibs than we seem to at any other club in the SPL (apart from Le Guen at Ibrox of course) And to listen to Ian Murray defending the current crop of wasters"if they want to go out,they will" stuns me as the words of the vice captain.Looking back.....

Mcleish........bust ups,drinking,"losing the dressing room"

Tony.........guys out on lash,Tony as the mate!

Collins........guys crying to boss because they were getting trained to hard!!!!

Mixu.........lost respect early because he was a teammate not long before

Yogi..........dressing room fights,on the town fights,and guys in the huff

Dont get me wrong,guys going out for a drink is no crime,but to do it on nights where we as supporters are hurting,shows a lack of respect to the club,the manager,and to us.But where is the leadership from the senior players or are the senior guys the ones instigating it?

The new manager I hope has a hard discipline record,he will need it by the looks of it,because the discipline in the changing room is a shambles.

Thoughts?

In principle I agree with you, it sounds like thats exactly what we need however the alarming thing is the last time we had a hard task master type (Collins) the players ran to Petrie complaining about him demanding they get in shape, live their life's right etc. Petrie bowed to that pressure and Collins was no more! Based on all our managers post Mowbray, I have lost all faith in Petrie's ability to pick the right man for the job..

[--------]

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In principle I agree with you, it sounds like thats exactly what we need however the alarming thing is the last time we had a hard task master type (Collins) the players ran to Petrie complaining about him demanding they get in shape, live their life's right etc. Petrie bowed to that pressure and Collins was no more! Based on all our managers post Mowbray, I have lost all faith in Petrie's ability to pick the right man for the job..

NOW you're getting close to crux of the matter.

[HibeeB]

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Hindsight's always 20/20, but I now suspect that our present troubles began when RP apparently failed to back JC in the face of the players' deputation.

Mind you, I'd reckon that THAT was a lot more complex than it appeared at the time - what on earth was Tommy Craig's role in the club at the time?

I'd say it goes back further than that.

Brebner, McManus, Brown and Riordan were all 'a bit wild' when they were starting out. Fair enough they all moved on and Derek has come back a more focused player, but the general attitude was poor at the time. If there had been more professional players around with a bit of influence their behaviour (the young ones) wouldn't have been tolerated. There's a lack of application around the dressing room at ER and it is tolerated at the highest level it seems to me. And has been for some time. Institutionalised lazyism

[blackpoolhibs]

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Excellent point - we've not got a proper captain(s). They're all either focussed on getting out on the peeve or don't have the respect of the others.

I said this a few weeks ago when the transfer window was open. I hate referring to hearts, but they went out a few years ago and brought Pressley back to the club, someone who was a captain a leader, they also brought back McPherson. Both players were winners, both whatever you think of their qualities gave everything.

We have nobody like them at the club, and haven't for a long long time.

[basehibby]

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while I am sorry to see Yogi go,it must be a relief for both him and hibs his tenure is finally up,great guy but clearly not up to the job,it got me thinking about our players over last few years and the power these guys have at easter road.

Going back to the days of Tony it seems the players have had a huge input off the pitch as to when a manager gets bounced and the problems a manager has with the players.We hear more of dressing room bust ups,hitting town after dismal performances,refusing to sit on the bench if not in first 11 etc at hibs than we seem to at any other club in the SPL (apart from Le Guen at Ibrox of course) And to listen to Ian Murray defending the current crop of wasters"if they want to go out,they will" stuns me as the words of the vice captain.Looking back.....

Mcleish........bust ups,drinking,"losing the dressing room"

Tony.........guys out on lash,Tony as the mate!

Collins........guys crying to boss because they were getting trained to hard!!!!

Mixu.........lost respect early because he was a teammate not long before

Yogi..........dressing room fights,on the town fights,and guys in the huff

Dont get me wrong,guys going out for a drink is no crime,but to do it on nights where we as supporters are hurting,shows a lack of respect to the club,the manager,and to us.But where is the leadership from the senior players or are the senior guys the ones instigating it?

The new manager I hope has a hard discipline record,he will need it by the looks of it,because the discipline in the changing room is a shambles.

Thoughts?

You are taking Murray's quote totally out of context in a misleading way (do you work for the record/sun?!? )
If you re-read the interview you'll se that Murray's comment was actually in defence of the manager(s) at ER and elsewhere as opposed to wayward players - ie the players are grown adults and the manager cannot be expected to act as their nanny, following them about out of hours - ergo - "if they want to go out they will"

Apart from that though I agree with the tenor of your post - there does seem to be an ongoing discipline problem at ER and it needs sorting out.

[sahib]

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How many of his players are still at the club?

It would seem that both Paatelainen and Hughes managed to punt some troublemakers, and then brought in their own crop to replace them....

Until we get the first crop of android/robot players then each manager will sign human beings and these will come with all the frailties of the species.
I would rather watch a George Best, Jim Baxter or a Willie Hamilton than a super fit half-miler masquerading as a footballer. We could sign more muslims and the problem would be sorted of course.

[basehibby]

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I said this a few weeks ago when the transfer window was open. I hate referring to hearts, but they went out a few years ago and brought Pressley back to the club, someone who was a captain a leader, they also brought back McPherson. Both players were winners, both whatever you think of their qualities gave everything.

We have nobody like them at the club, and haven't for a long long time.

Ian Murray has something of that about him IMO - although you're right there have been precious few strong leaders at ER for a long time.

[ozwoody]

In principle I agree with you, it sounds like thats exactly what we need however the alarming thing is the last time we had a hard task master type (Collins) the players ran to Petrie complaining about him demanding they get in shape, live their life's right etc. Petrie bowed to that pressure and Collins was no more! Based on all our managers post Mowbray, I have lost all faith in Petrie's ability to pick the right man for the job.

I think to be honest,petrie knew he failed by taking players position on jc,and i am hoping he wont make same mistake again,but any manager worth his salt will do reasearch and demand that he has last word on discipline,as its no secret what happened to jc,and a manager like butcher,or even clarke would not stand for that

[Dirkster23]

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I said this a few weeks ago when the transfer window was open. I hate referring to hearts, but they went out a few years ago and brought Pressley back to the club, someone who was a captain a leader, they also brought back McPherson. Both players were winners, both whatever you think of their qualities gave everything.

We have nobody like them at the club, and haven't for a long long time.

I think that's the type of player Yogi hoped he'd signed in De Graaf. An experienced player who came from a top league and had been a captain for the last 4 years.

As much as it wouldn't have been a popular signing (and a position we had cover in), Hartley would have been a great signing for us. IMO he's the type of leader we need in the team.