Last night, did we do enough to win?

[blackpoolhibs]

Not at the game last night, but Yogi and the guys on the radio said we could and probably should have won the game, and had De Gaff scored the open goal we would have. What should the manager have done last night that would have made any difference to the result?

[Speedway]

Unfortunetly, it's not about what the manager could, should, would, didn't, might've done it's about what happens with what he does do.

Last night, his signings in his formation with his training and his motivation led to a 3-1 defeat from a potless team with a manager that was deemed not Hibs Class.

So we lost 3-1, therefore we did not do enough to win.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Unfortunetly, it's not about what the manager could, should, would, didn't, might've done it's about what happens with what he does do.

Last night, his signings in his formation with his training and his motivation led to a 3-1 defeat from a potless team with a manager that was deemed not Hibs Class.

So we lost 3-1, therefore we did not do enough to win.

Yip i understand what you are saying, but i do think he has little input once they go on the pitch, other than changing formations or tactics or players.

He has to take responsibility for results, but cant be held responsible for players missing the target from penaltys, or open goals. The chances we have missed this season are nothing short of criminal, and show just how close it is between success or failure.

Last season imho has gone, we had our best finish in years. This season has started badly, yet 3 open goals and a penalty miss would have us clear in 3rd, maybe not playing the best, but certainly helping with morale on the pitch and off.

[IFONLY]

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Unfortunetly, it's not about what the manager could, should, would, didn't, might've done it's about what happens with what he does do.

Last night, his signings in his formation with his training and his motivation led to a 3-1 defeat from a potless team with a manager that was deemed not Hibs Class.

So we lost 3-1, therefore we did not do enough to win.

That in my opinion is not an analysis of the game. IMO I thought that we deserved to win the game, it was the same old story we sqaunder a chance to go in front( up until then I thought we where streets ahead) and the inevitable happens. If the stats at the game where correct we had more shots on target than they did but unfortunately they put theirs away.

[Speedway]

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That in my opinion is not an analysis of the game. IMO I thought that we deserved to win the game, it was the same old story we sqaunder a chance to go in front( up until then I thought we where streets ahead) and the inevitable happens. If the stats at the game where correct we had more shots on target than they did but unfortunately they put theirs away.

So do we deserve the cup if we lose in the final?

It doesn't matter what we deserve, it matters what we earn.

We earned a 3-1 tanking last night.

Killie won't be sat wondering what they deserved, yo don't get through to the next round of the cup on artistic merit.

[IFONLY]

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So do we deserve the cup if we lose in the final?

It doesn't matter what we deserve, it matters what we earn.

We earned a 3-1 tanking last night.

Killie won't be sat wondering what they deserved, yo don't get through to the next round of the cup on artistic merit.

What is that all about, certainly not last nights game. Can you please post your comments on the game

[Speedway]

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What is that all about, certainly not last nights game. Can you please post your comments on the game

Certainly, Killie scored three times whilst we didn't. We tried to give away two penalties but the ref only allowed us to give away one. We didn't have goals chalked off this time for being offside, we just missed the target altogether instead. Killie didn't. Killie put one past us from 25 yards out. We didn't do that to them.

So no, we still didn't do enough to win the game that way either.

[erskine-hibby]

We didn't defend well enough, we didn't score enough...so...NO!

[khib70]

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Not at the game last night, but Yogi and the guys on the radio said we could and probably should have won the game, and had De Gaff scored the open goal we would have. What should the manager have done last night that would have made any difference to the result?

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What is that all about, certainly not last nights game. Can you please post your comments on the game

Ahhh, the official straw-clutching thread!

[Hibercelona]

Killie were better than us last night.

Are we really so arrogant that we can't just come out and say that?

[el capitano]

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Not at the game last night, but Yogi and the guys on the radio said we could and probably should have won the game, and had De Gaff scored the open goal we would have. What should the manager have done last night that would have made any difference to the result?

to answer ur question, yes we did.
without singling out individuals my personal view is,
our defence was too soft again, very easily bullied and midfield/forward players didnt finish any chances,not all were sitters but 1 or maybe 2 defo were.

gk should have done better with the 3rd

this is all irrelevant now with the mess the club is in, far too much pressure been put on the players whether its there fault or not, no team can play with confidence while under that amount of pressure.
i also feel 3 or 4 players were out there playing with injuries.

[Speedway]

If you don't score more goals that are deemed legal by the ref, than the opposition does, you never do enough to deserve to win.

[BEEJ]

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Not at the game last night, but Yogi and the guys on the radio said we could and probably should have won the game, and had De Gaff scored the open goal we would have. What should the manager have done last night that would have made any difference to the result?

Having taken an early lead we allowed Killie back into the match with a goal that was careless to concede. From then until half-time I thought Killie had the upper-hand.

We dominated the game for the first 20 minutes or so of the second half but, as I recall, only creating one clear cut chance - the De Graaf miss. So maybe 'dominate' is the wrong word as with all our possession in that period their goalie was given little to do. Our players were static. There was no movement at the front to create space and cause their defence problems. Far too easy to defend against.

A feature of the second half, unfortunately, was the knack of players like Grounds to stray from their position. Don't know if this was tactically inspired, but he was either AWOL or seriously skinned in the lead up to Killie's penalty award.

We had been prone to allowing Killie far too much space when they ventured forward. However, this habit took on new dimensions for Killie's third when the goal scorer's run and shot seemed from where I was to go completely unchallenged.

So, yes we had a few chances. And on another day we might have taken more than one. But don't be fooled into thinking we had 8 or 9 clear cut opportunities to score and lady luck deserted us.

Anyway, given the remarkably soft-centre in this team, we need to be scoring at least three goals to have any chance of a win.

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Last season imho has gone, we had our best finish in years. This season has started badly, yet 3 open goals and a penalty miss would have us clear in 3rd, maybe not playing the best, but certainly helping with morale on the pitch and off.

You're assuming that we would have gone on to win each of these games.

That also appears to be Yogi's thinking. I have to say that even leading by two or three goals I would not be convinced of our ability to secure a victory until practically the final whistle. Fir Park last year taught us that.

[IFONLY]

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Killie were better than us last night.

Are we really so arrogant that we can't just come out and say that?

Not arrogant, never have been I leave that to Edinburghs other teams supporters I am just giving my opinion, whether its wrong or right its my opinion, just like you have your opinion which although I disagree with it I respect it.

[Hibercelona]

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Not arrogant, never have been I leave that to Edinburghs other teams supporters I am just giving my opinion, whether its wrong or right its my opinion, just like you have your opinion which although I disagree with it I respect it.

My comment was totally 100% without doubt aimed directly at you right enough.

But thanks for your input.

[PaulSmith]

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Not at the game last night, but Yogi and the guys on the radio said we could and probably should have won the game, and had De Gaff scored the open goal we would have. What should the manager have done last night that would have made any difference to the result?

BH, there's a post on the PM boad which I've shamelessly copied and pasted onto here as it sums up exactly what is wrong at the moment:

Not sure of the system Yogi is trying to play, but it seems to depend on retaining the ball - even if that means backward or square passes -until there is a clear target in a channel or on the wings. However because there is little movement up front this passing can go on aimlessly for ages. usually it ends with an over ambitious diagonal pass that is cut out easily or a ball over the top which either catches our forwards offside or they are not quick enough to reach before the keeper. Hence few goals.
We are woefully short of pace - I don't think I would back any of our players to beat any of the players we have faced so far this season in a 1:1 race.

It occurred to me tonight that we play the same every week, taking no account of the opposition's strengths or weaknesses. This makes it easy for opposition managers to plan their tactics. It also means if we fall behind we have no plan B.
(Sometimes we don't even seem to have Plan A)
I have a vague memory of going to Falkirk when Yogi was their manager and it being similar - they always started as if they were going to hammer us, then we got a goal and managed to win. Well it's happening to us now.

[ahibby]

I didn't see the game but to lose by two clear goals means that you didn't do enough to win the game. Even if De Graf had scored to go 2-0 up then if we lost 3 goals after that you couldn't say we did enough to win the game. You can say we played well enough but didn't take our chances, but surely that's as much as you can say?

[IFONLY]

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My comment was totally 100% without doubt aimed directly at you right enough.

But thanks for your input.

Did I say it was, I was once again making a comment. Maybe you should look up the word arrogant because you are slowly falling into that category

[Hibercelona]

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Did I say it was, I was once again making a comment. Maybe you should look up the word arrogant because you are slowly falling into that category

Why?

Because I can openly admit that we're "*****". Instead of clouding over that matter with stats that mean f'all if you don't win?

[killie-hibby]

I was at the game. Yes we could have won had we taken our chances to score. Should we have won?. No,because Kilmarnock did convert their chances which were fewer than Hibs had.
The manager does not have motivational or tactical skills sufficient to outmanoeuvre
any other SPL manager, therefore LAST NIGHT he was incapable of making any difference to the eventual result. With the one exception being tendering his resignation before the game began.

By the way i disagree with John Hughes saying we were unlucky. In my opinion we were very lucky. Kilmarnock were denied a stonewaller penalty.

[HFC 0-7]

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to answer ur question, yes we did.
without singling out individuals my personal view is,
our defence was too soft again, very easily bullied and midfield/forward players didnt finish any chances,not all were sitters but 1 or maybe 2 defo were.

gk should have done better with the 3rd

this is all irrelevant now with the mess the club is in, far too much pressure been put on the players whether its there fault or not, no team can play with confidence while under that amount of pressure.
i also feel 3 or 4 players were out there playing with injuries.

Did we do enough to win the game? If we didnt win the game then we didnt do enough! The only time you can get beat and have done enough to win the game is if the ref was a cheat.

I have never got why managers say 'we did enough to win the game' when they have just been beaten. In golf you wouldnt say I did enough to win that tournament after finishing 15 shots behind everyone because you missed a few puts, so why do people say it in football when missing the chances and the other team didnt.

You dont do enough by getting into positions to score in football games you have to score. If we missed clear cut chances then thats where we didnt do enough.

FWIW even if de graff had scored to make it 2-1 that isnt even a guarantee that we would win.

Kilmarnock missed a coupld of chances, brown making a couple of good saves. They scored 3 we scored 1. We let in 3 they let in 1.

I admire people for looking for positives in a bad situation, but if there isnt any positives dont just make them up.

Some fans out there see Hibernian as the unluckiest team in the world, I see them as an average team being managed badly.

We only did enough to win the game if Kilmarnock didnt score 3!

[Hibs7]

How many times does De Crap have to miss open goals before he gets pumped !!!!!!

[Green_one]

Threw away an early lead, failing to build on it

Lucky not to almost immediately give away a penalty. Did not learn from this

Few chances created and the main one falls to a guy who always fails close to goal


Killie took their changes and came back from a goal down and an odd penalty decision. Note : they score their penalties

So

Were we unlucky - NO
Did we deserve to win - NO
Did Killie deserve their win - YES
Was it all too predictable - YES YES YES
Are some folk looking for daft ways of explaining away a long sting of falure - YES!!!. Perhaps they can explain their DENIAL SYMPTOMS

[Franck is God]

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How many times does De Crap have to miss open goals before he gets pumped !!!!!!

This doesn't seem like a fair punishment and just who is supposed to carry out this pumping?

Are you offering your services?

[basehibby]

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Having taken an early lead we allowed Killie back into the match with a goal that was careless to concede. From then until half-time I thought Killie had the upper-hand.

We dominated the game for the first 20 minutes or so of the second half but, as I recall, only creating one clear cut chance - the De Graaf miss. So maybe 'dominate' is the wrong word as with all our possession in that period their goalie was given little to do. Our players were static. There was no movement at the front to create space and cause their defence problems. Far too easy to defend against.

A feature of the second half, unfortunately, was the knack of players like Grounds to stray from their position. Don't know if this was tactically inspired, but he was either AWOL or seriously skinned in the lead up to Killie's penalty award.

We had been prone to allowing Killie far too much space when they ventured forward. However, this habit took on new dimensions for Killie's third when the goal scorer's run and shot seemed from where I was to go completely unchallenged.

So, yes we had a few chances. And on another day we might have taken more than one. But don't be fooled into thinking we had 8 or 9 clear cut opportunities to score and lady luck deserted us.

Anyway, given the remarkably soft-centre in this team, we need to be scoring at least three goals to have any chance of a win.


You're assuming that we would have gone on to win each of these games.

That also appears to be Yogi's thinking. I have to say that even leading by two or three goals I would not be convinced of our ability to secure a victory until practically the final whistle. Fir Park last year taught us that.

Thanks are due to you and ElCapitano for actually answering the OP's question rather than just ranting on about sacking the manager. Considering Yogi's post match comments it's a very pertinent question - if Hibs had been all over Killie with their keeper getting MOM it would put quite a different slant on things IMO.
As it happens it sounds like that was not the case - sounds like an even game that could maybe have gone either way (which is exactly what Hughes said to be fair) - but it went Killie's way and there's the rub. Hibs have not been dominating games against anyone for quite a long time now and, regardless of good or bad luck, that's the main reason why Hughes now finds his jacket on a shoogly peg.
He needed a dominant performance in the 2 recent home games vs ICT and Hamilton and he desparately needed one last night - even if the match was away from home. Whether it was because of the tactics, team selection or the players just not responding it didn't happen and he's fast running out of chances to prove that it ever will.

[Bad Martini]

This is quite ****ing simples as far as I can see.

If we HAD done enough to win, we WOULD have won. It's THAT simple.

No point in going about how we done this, that or the other. We did NOT do enough to win for we scored less goals than our ****ing opponents and thus, we lost and once again, exited a cup too early.

So, in conclusion; we did NOT do enough to win. When you do this, you win. For our esteemed leader to becry luck and say we could have won, we all KNOW that .. but we didny, thus SOMETHING has to give here. I dont care if its players, management, both, neither - something has to change. We could have beaten Hamilton, but didny. We should have beaten Killie, but didny. Go back to January, repeat til yer ****in bored.

ENDOF

[IWasThere2016]

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Did we do enough to win the game? If we didnt win the game then we didnt do enough! The only time you can get beat and have done enough to win the game is if the ref was a cheat.

I have never got why managers say 'we did enough to win the game' when they have just been beaten. In golf you wouldnt say I did enough to win that tournament after finishing 15 shots behind everyone because you missed a few puts, so why do people say it in football when missing the chances and the other team didnt.

You dont do enough by getting into positions to score in football games you have to score. If we missed clear cut chances then thats where we didnt do enough.

FWIW even if de graff had scored to make it 2-1 that isnt even a guarantee that we would win.

Kilmarnock missed a coupld of chances, brown making a couple of good saves. They scored 3 we scored 1. We let in 3 they let in 1.

I admire people for looking for positives in a bad situation, but if there isnt any positives dont just make them up.

Some fans out there see Hibernian as the unluckiest team in the world, I see them as an average team being managed badly.

We only did enough to win the game if Kilmarnock didnt score 3!

Or 2 .. or 1 .. we're pish.

We cannae replace a whole team - besides we've do so plus in the last year and a bit of under Yogi eg - Stack, Smith, Broon, Hart, Dickoh, Stephens, Grounds, De Graaf, McBride, Miller, Galbraith, Stokes (in and oot), Takys (excluded Daryl Duffy) .. so it has to be the manager falling on his sword.

[rubber mal]

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Yip i understand what you are saying, but i do think he has little input once they go on the pitch, other than changing formations or tactics or players.

He has to take responsibility for results, but cant be held responsible for players missing the target from penaltys, or open goals. The chances we have missed this season are nothing short of criminal, and show just how close it is between success or failure.

Last season imho has gone, we had our best finish in years. This season has started badly, yet 3 open goals and a penalty miss would have us clear in 3rd, maybe not playing the best, but certainly helping with morale on the pitch and off.

It never ceases to amaze me how football fans carefully select only the facts they need to back up their own argument.

Anyone who is still clinging on to Yogi's "we're jist no gettin' the rub o' the green at the moment" bollocks would do well to remember that when we did pick up our only win of the season so far, Hanlon scored after handling the ball, and Motherwell had a stone-wall penalty not given.

[lyonhibs]

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Yip i understand what you are saying, but i do think he has little input once they go on the pitch, other than changing formations or tactics or players.

He has to take responsibility for results, but cant be held responsible for players missing the target from penaltys, or open goals. The chances we have missed this season are nothing short of criminal, and show just how close it is between success or failure.

Last season imho has gone, we had our best finish in years. This season has started badly, yet 3 open goals and a penalty miss would have us clear in 3rd, maybe not playing the best, but certainly helping with morale on the pitch and off.

So APART from having the final say over formation, tactics and personnel, Yogi has very little input on what goes on the field??? I'd say control over those 3 factors gave him a whole lot of input, no??

If your team has just gone 2-1 down, and is - again - chronically lacking in pace and width, would it of killed the man to have put Spoony and Galbraith on then, instead of waiting till we were 3-1 down??? Nish has been suffering from a confidence and form crisis for quite some time now, yet still he more often than not sees out 90 minutes.

Now, people will say - "ah but we had no other options, Duffy is injured, Yogi's hands are tied" - but that's based on the idea that a tall striker can only be replaced by another tall striker (which we now have).

This presumption is itself based on the idea that - if you start a match 4-4-2 or whatever - then you pretty much have to finish the match like that, which is absolute baws.

If we had a manager capable of changing personnel, tactics and formation simultaneously mid game (well, we did, and he won us the CIS Cup, but that's a different thread) then, with Spoony and/or Galbraith on the bench, which - at least - 1 of them always has been in the past few weeks, then any manager with a bit of flexibility/imagination could have influenced the game from the touchline, especially when the deficiencies are a) so obvious and b) so persistent.

But we don't so neither players nor manager did enough to win last night, or the week before, or the week before that. Repeat ad nauseum.

[blackpoolhibs]

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So APART from having the final say over formation, tactics and personnel, Yogi has very little input on what goes on the field??? I'd say control over those 3 factors gave him a whole lot of input, no??

If your team has just gone 2-1 down, and is - again - chronically lacking in pace and width, would it of killed the man to have put Spoony and Galbraith on then, instead of waiting till we were 3-1 down??? Nish has been suffering from a confidence and form crisis for quite some time now, yet still he more often than not sees out 90 minutes.

Now, people will say - "ah but we had no other options, Duffy is injured, Yogi's hands are tied" - but that's based on the idea that a tall striker can only be replaced by another tall striker (which we now have).

This presumption is itself based on the idea that - if you start a match 4-4-2 or whatever - then you pretty much have to finish the match like that, which is absolute baws.

If we had a manager capable of changing personnel, tactics and formation simultaneously mid game (well, we did, and he won us the CIS Cup, but that's a different thread) then, with Spoony and/or Galbraith, which - at least - 1 of them always has been in the past few weeks, then any manager with a bit of flexibility/imagination could have influenced the game from the touchline, especially when the deficiencies are a) so obvious and b) so persistent.

But we don't so neither players nor manager did enough to win last night, or the week before, or the week before that. Repeat ad nauseum.

I could have worded it better, he can change formations or players during the games, and has done in the past. Its not come off though, and he's said to have no plan B. I disagree, he has had a plan B C and D, but none have worked. The misses by De Graff could have saved him imho, ironic really as he was his big summer signing, he will be sacked soon.