A Positive note for once..........

[southern hibby]

I am sick and tired of reading how bad we are and how the stand could be costing us in football terms. So enough of all that and just think for one minute about where we are in terms of success.

Early 90's Mercer came calling with the Bank Manager in tow. 6 weeks away from a merger that was the end of us.

We fought back and WE WON.

It's taken 20 years to turn the debt and stadium also training facilities around, again a total success.

Yes we could have better players and a better manager and a bit more silver in the cupboard.
However.................

Just look across the city at that pile of SH*T and see what happens if you take the path to Glory, through financial ruin.

The last 20 years have been totally different for both clubs and I really do believe the next 5 will see us start to spend on players and a keep a hold of the ones we bring through.

There is a very strong light at the end of a very short tunnel for us and we are heading towards it at a gathering speed.

GGTTH.

[Steve20]

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Just look across the city at that pile of SH*T and see what happens if you take the path to Glory, through financial ruin.

.

What happens? They are above us in the league and have a manager who seems capable of doing a reasonable job. I keep hearing Hearts are heading for ruin. Just wishful thinking from people.

[Caversham Green]

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What happens? They are above us in the league and have a manager who seems capable of doing a reasonable job. I keep hearing Hearts are heading for ruin. Just wishful thinking from people.

The difference is that Hearts might survive, depending on the whims and survival of a Russian/Lithuanian of dubious character, wealth and sanity. Hibs will survive depending on no-one.

That's a good place to be in my book.

[MrSmith]

As much as I think being optimistic has its place, we are unfortunately on a downward path.

I was there in the Wallet Merger era and was one of thousands of fans who fought to stop it happening. However we cannot use 91' as an excuse to gloss over the issues the team and management are currently going through. There is definitely something amiss at the club right now and again, unfortunately it looks like Yogi is not managing.

I was a supporter of Yogis and was glad to see him get the job however things just aint quite right and need addressed as a matter of urgency.

We Hibs fans have been pessimistic for years and hopeful of better days to come through continuity and consistency of management, players and performances of which, does not seem to occur for us and again, this needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency because we will continue to slide and fans will walk away in there droves...wait a minute, they already have and are!

In the 80's 33000 would turn up to ER to see games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic and against the rest a crowd of around 13000+ was deemed poor.

So what do we do? Do we accept our lot and the status quo at Hibs while hiding our natural love of Hibs and fighting spirit? I think not!

We Hibs fans have been through lots over the years and the way we have stood by our club, fought for it and endured the most mediocre rubbish has earned us the right to comment and voice our opinions/discontent at our will.

We are Hibs!

[H18sry]

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As much as I think being optimistic has its place, we are unfortunately on a downward path.

I was there in the Wallet Merger era and was one of thousands of fans who fought to stop it happening. However we cannot use 91' as an excuse to gloss over the issues the team and management are currently going through. There is definitely something amiss at the club right now and again, unfortunately it looks like Yogi is not managing.

I was a supporter of Yogis and was glad to see him get the job however things just aint quite right and need addressed as a matter of urgency.

We Hibs fans have been pessimistic for years and hopeful of better days to come through continuity and consistency of management, players and performances of which, does not seem to occur for us and again, this needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency because we will continue to slide and fans will walk away in there droves...wait a minute, they already have and are!

In the 80's 33000 would turn up to ER to see games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic and against the rest a crowd of around 13000+ was deemed poor.

So what do we do? Do we accept our lot and the status quo at Hibs while hiding our natural love of Hibs and fighting spirit? I think not!

We Hibs fans have been through lots over the years and the way we have stood by our club, fought for it and endured the most mediocre rubbish has earned us the right to comment and voice our opinions/discontent at our will.

We are Hibs!

are you sure

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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There is a very strong light at the end of a very short tunnel for us and we are heading towards it at a gathering speed.

GGTTH.

Is there really?

2 Scottish Cups to nil for that lot since the Mercer bid. I would settle for being in the doggy doo as much as that!

The stories of their financial plight are beginning to do my head in, nothing much seems to have changed over the last few years for them.

[MrSmith]

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are you sure

Well I was there, and the ground was full to bursting remember it was standing then.

[Caversham Green]

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Is there really?

2 Scottish Cups to nil for that lot since the Mercer bid. I would settle for being in the doggy doo as much as that!

The stories of their financial plight are beginning to do my head in, nothing much seems to have changed over the last few years for them.

We've won a trophy since their last one and finished above them in two of the last three seasons, but weren't happy at the end of any of them.

But you're right, let's try not to be positive about anything - Mercer should have put us out of our misery when he had the chance. Managers, players and results will come and go, but Hibs will always be here. And the fans will always be miserable.

I despair sometimes.

[H18sry]

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Well I was there, and the ground was full to bursting remember it was standing then.

Aye I was also there, and when we played against the teams you mentioned our average gates in the 80's was around the 18,000 mark, however we did get crowds of up to 27,000 when playing the yams at new year.

Figures gained from this excellent website http://www.ihibs.co.uk/index.php

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Managers, players and results will come and go, but Hibs will always be here. And the fans will always be miserable.

I despair sometimes.

When we were hours from going out of business just existing was all that people were after.

Over 20 years later I get the impression that more than a few people are becoming disillusioned with the constant sale of better players, who in the past were generally replaced by young up & coming players from within (which it could be argued lead to these players being shown a little more patience by the fans as they were viewed as "one of ours" and were given time to develop). It appears that this production line still exists, but, the manager prefers to sign in the main journeymen professionals with little or no affinity to the club or fans.

Obviously, I hope you are right with regard to light at the end of the tunnel as there is very little left to spend money on apart from the most important aspect in improving the club which is the product on the pitch ie bringing in players of a decent level to augment the youngsters at the club, oh aye and maybe a manager that would know how to get the best out of said players.

[MrSmith]

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Aye I was also there, and when we played against the teams you mentioned our average gates in the 80's was around the 18,000 mark, however we did get crowds of up to 27,000 when playing the yams at new year.

Figures gained from this excellent website http://www.ihibs.co.uk/index.php

Can't argue with that!

[Caversham Green]

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Obviously, I hope you are right with regard to light at the end of the tunnel as there is very little left to spend money on apart from the most important aspect in improving the club which is the product on the pitch ie bringing in players of a decent level to augment the youngsters at the club, oh aye and maybe a manager that would know how to get the best out of said players.

Would you really rather the club was £35m worse off, with a death trap for a main stand and serious doubts hanging over its future existence, just to be able to say they've won the Scottish Cup twice in twenty years? We've won the League Cup twice in the same period and finished above them in two of the last three seasons. We're three points behind them and not doing well at the moment, but that will change either by the manager turning results round or being replaced. They need a miracle to solve their problems.

The OP and I were pointing out that in the grand scheme of things we're not that badly off, but some supporters are too wrapped up in their dislike of John Hughes/Rod Petrie/Tom Farmer/Tam McCourt to see that.

[Dr Jimmy]

Who cares what debt Hearts are in? Even their own fans don't!
This continual "we are better off than hearts" does my box in, I couldn't give a flying **** if they are in £1 in debt or £100M in debt that is THEIR problem.
The longer we keep buying into this crap our board will continue to sell players to anyone that ensures they can trump out the "we made a profit for the x year in a row" and supply some fans with a smug grin when talking to Jambos. Invest in a proper manager and get the playing side sorted that will help you balance the books!

It is all about Hibs................nobody else matters!!!

[sambajustice]

In the last 20 years they've won 2 scottish cups, qualified fairly regularly for europe and went on a couple of decent runs in that time. We've been relegated, promoted, won 2 league cups, qualify for europe now and again but always do crap!

Hertz have been going to the wall for 5 years now!

In terms of on the pitch success they'll quite a bit infront of us!

[ChilliEater]

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As much as I think being optimistic has its place, we are unfortunately on a downward path.

I was there in the Wallet Merger era and was one of thousands of fans who fought to stop it happening. However we cannot use 91' as an excuse to gloss over the issues the team and management are currently going through. There is definitely something amiss at the club right now and again, unfortunately it looks like Yogi is not managing.

I was a supporter of Yogis and was glad to see him get the job however things just aint quite right and need addressed as a matter of urgency.

We Hibs fans have been pessimistic for years and hopeful of better days to come through continuity and consistency of management, players and performances of which, does not seem to occur for us and again, this needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency because we will continue to slide and fans will walk away in there droves...wait a minute, they already have and are!

In the 80's 33000 would turn up to ER to see games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic and against the rest a crowd of around 13000+ was deemed poor.

So what do we do? Do we accept our lot and the status quo at Hibs while hiding our natural love of Hibs and fighting spirit? I think not!

We Hibs fans have been through lots over the years and the way we have stood by our club, fought for it and endured the most mediocre rubbish has earned us the right to comment and voice our opinions/discontent at our will.

We are Hibs!

Thats not how I remember it. Capacity, or close to it, for yams and OF, which in the late 80's was around 24000. I've stood on the east in crowds under 8000. I think our average at that time was often under 10000.

[ahibby]

What does this have to do with us not being able to win against Hamilton and Inverness at home? Or Maribor for that matter.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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Would you really rather the club was £35m worse off.

How have you got nonsense like that from my posts?

Looking at the state most of our "rivals" are in these days I really don't think that would be necessary. Concentrating a bit more funds on the playing/management staff though could prove quite fruitfull, although I believe the current manager has had a bit more to spend than most other managers in the SPL. Perhaps a manager with a bit more savvy would be able to get more out of the players Yogi has at his disposal at the moment.

Maybe my expectations are too high though!

[MrSmith]

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Thats not how I remember it. Capacity, or close to it, for yams and OF, which in the late 80's was around 24000. I've stood on the east in crowds under 8000. I think our average at that time was often under 10000.

Well two games that stick out in my mind...Rangers midweek, John Collins scored the winner with a superb solo effort and Andy Gorams first game against Hearts. We beat Hearts that day and ended that miserable run they had against us. On both occasion ER was mobbed, difficult to get standing without being pushed around all and I mean all parts of the ground were full, Main stand, Cow shed, East Terracing and South Stand. Now, as i recall the capacity was near 33000 but please feel free to correct me.

[Caversham Green]

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Would you really rather the club was £35m worse off, with a death trap for a main stand and serious doubts hanging over its future existence, just to be able to say they've won the Scottish Cup twice in twenty years?

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How have you got nonsense like that from my posts?

Here's how.

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2 Scottish Cups to nil for that lot since the Mercer bid. I would settle for being in the doggy doo as much as that!

[SaudiHibby]

During the Mogadon Miller days I could virtually guarantee that each season we would have the same number of points as games played. Sadly we are back to those days due to a lack of investment in team affairs (coaches and players). You can have the fanciest Hotel on the planet but if you fill it with untrained staff it will be a poor hotel regardless of the shiny and plush fixtures and fittings. Take on a 16 year old apprentice plumber and if by the age of 24 he cannot change a tap is it the laddies fault or the managements fault?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Fair enough! Forgot about the doggy doo line!

I really don't think expenditure of anywhere near those extremes would be necessary as the standard of the league seems to be dropping year on year, but, despite all our off park "success" not much is being reflected on it. Scraping into 4th place aganst Dundee Utd reserves on the last day of the season when taking into account the quality of the other teams in the SPL isnae exactly outstanding is it?

The trip to Maribor was quite good though!

[Moulin Yarns]

I had the misfortune of popping into Fishers for a pint before my wife finished work on Saturday, not realising there was a minibus of Jambos in there, but I had chat with some, asking their thoughts on the Skacel signing, and so on. I never let on I was a Hibee, but the scores were coming in, and it was all "Come on Hamilton, score again" "So long as we are above Hibs" etc.

And I thought to myself, they are no better than us, and we are no better than them. All we want to do is see our rivals fail, just so we can brag at work for a week.

If Hibs had scored, I would have made sure they knew I was a Hibee.

On the way out I passed two of the guys I'd been chatting to as they headed away from the pub. I rose above their level and pointed out that their bus was parked behind the bar and not up the road where they were heading.

[Caversham Green]

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Fair enough! Forgot about the doggy doo line!

I really don't think expenditure of anywhere near those extremes would be necessary as the standard of the league seems to be dropping year on year, but, despite all our off park "success" not much is being reflected on it. Scraping into 4th place aganst Dundee Utd reserves on the last day of the season when taking into account the quality of the other teams in the SPL isnae exactly outstanding is it?

The trip to Maribor was quite good though!

But here's the thing. We are already spending more than we bring in from football matches. We're also spending a lot more than Dundee United and Motherwell, but achieving about the same as them. We're spending about the same as Aberdeen and a lot less than Hearts but finished well ahead of both last season. Just spending money is not the answer to our problems - spending money in the right way might be but who knows what the right way is?

The point of the OP (in my opinion as I can't speak for southern hibby) is that we are in a much better position to kick on from here than any of our competitors despite being all but dead and buried twenty years ago. But let's all be miserable because we were relegated at the end of last century and are almost certain to go down again this year.

Pass the razor blades.

[NeilOrrSquareBa]

[QUOTE=MrSmith;2582670]

In the 80's 33000 would turn up to ER to see games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic and against the rest a crowd of around 13000+ was deemed poor.
QUOTE]

When was that, the 1880's?

[Peevemor]

[QUOTE=NeilOrrSquareBa;2582839]

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In the 80's 33000 would turn up to ER to see games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic and against the rest a crowd of around 13000+ was deemed poor.
QUOTE]

When was that, the 1880's?

Exactly. The biggest crowd I've been in at ER is about 27K.

[MrSmith]

[QUOTE=NeilOrrSquareBa;2582839]

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In the 80's 33000 would turn up to ER to see games against Hearts, Rangers and Celtic and against the rest a crowd of around 13000+ was deemed poor.
QUOTE]

When was that, the 1880's?

aboot then, near enough that Scottsih Cup win! However...maybe green tinted glasses eh?

[MrSmith]

[QUOTE=Peevemor®;2582843]

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Exactly. The biggest crowd I've been in at ER is about 27K.

I bow to your superior knowledge.

[Dr Jimmy]

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But here's the thing. We are already spending more than we bring in from football matches. We're also spending a lot more than Dundee United and Motherwell, but achieving about the same as them. We're spending about the same as Aberdeen and a lot less than Hearts but finished well ahead of both last season. Just spending money is not the answer to our problems - spending money in the right way might be but who knows what the right way is?

The point of the OP (in my opinion as I can't speak for southern hibby) is that we are in a much better position to kick on from here than any of our competitors despite being all but dead and buried twenty years ago. But let's all be miserable because we were relegated at the end of last century and are almost certain to go down again this year.

Pass the razor blades.

But we won't because our board are a bunch of accountants obsessed with balancing the books. They are also guilty of consistent mistakes in picking managers and selling players every season that are key to us making progress.
The player selling is done to balance the books and whilst I understand that if the money is not coming in they have to do something, but this is the main reason we are not going to move forward, as they will continue to take this option to hit year end targets.
Other ways of balancing the books must be looked at, and I would start with a proven SPL/Championship manger that has full control of the team and decides who stays and who goes. This would have us further up the league and would increase the gates and revenue.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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The point of the OP (in my opinion as I can't speak for southern hibby) is that we are in a much better position to kick on from here than any of our competitors despite being all but dead and buried twenty years ago. But let's all be miserable because we were relegated at the end of last century and are almost certain to go down again this year.

Pass the razor blades.

The bit in bold is where the disilliusionment is setting in for people as far as I can see, we have been hearing this for a while now from the club, but, on the playing side there is precious little evidence that much has changed.

[Phil D. Rolls]

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Who cares what debt Hearts are in? Even their own fans don't!
This continual "we are better off than hearts" does my box in, I couldn't give a flying **** if they are in £1 in debt or £100M in debt that is THEIR problem.
The longer we keep buying into this crap our board will continue to sell players to anyone that ensures they can trump out the "we made a profit for the x year in a row" and supply some fans with a smug grin when talking to Jambos. Invest in a proper manager and get the playing side sorted that will help you balance the books!

It is all about Hibs................nobody else matters!!!

I think that those of us who went through the club being close to shutting down will always worry about the debt. It's maybe a curse of our generation, but having a club at all is a big big thing.

I don't think it's fair to say that the board will sell a player to "anyone". I would say they have been careful about getting the best price they can. It would go beyond naivety and border on insanity to think that modern players of real ability don't want to move.

So if they are going to move on, let's get the best price we can. It's the only way we can really balance the books. I don't agree that investing in the squad and getting the right manager alone can do that.

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Well two games that stick out in my mind...Rangers midweek, John Collins scored the winner with a superb solo effort and Andy Gorams first game against Hearts. We beat Hearts that day and ended that miserable run they had against us. On both occasion ER was mobbed, difficult to get standing without being pushed around all and I mean all parts of the ground were full, Main stand, Cow shed, East Terracing and South Stand. Now, as i recall the capacity was near 33000 but please feel free to correct me.

It seems so silly to be arguing about perceptions of the size of crowds, when there are written records of attendances to check. If you look it up, you'll find there was never a crowd of 33,000 in the 80s.

I think the last time there was anything touching that would be c. 1976 for a Scotland v Holland u 21 game.


I was at the game on 17/10/87. IIRC correctly the top was off the terracing by then, and the capacity would be nowhere near 33,000. I am guessing at an attendance of around 20,000.