Dermot Desmond and the old firm to England, again.

[Antifa Hibs]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/8954996.stm
What a tit. Especially the bit about wage caps. We can't pay big wages anymore therefore they should be capped, desite us paying 10x as much in wages as the rest our of current rivals. Pr1ck!

[lucky]

He is right Sky will decide if they are going to get to join. I am in favour of a UK wide league, it cant be any worse than the SPL. We never win anything in this league so an opportunity for Hibs to join another league with greater revenues would be attractive. As for Scotland I dont care, cheering on McGregor and co just does not appeal.

[MrSmith]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/8954996.stm

Why don't the rest of the SPL teams just resign and start fresh to rid oursleves of the bigot brothers???

[the_ginger_hibee]

The motherwells of the world would go to the wall without the OF. Turkeys voting for Christmas and all that.

[Sylar]

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/8954996.stm

Why don't the rest of the SPL teams just resign and start fresh to rid oursleves of the bigot brothers???

Easy - money.

Money is the very same reason Rangers and Celtic will never get into England - other clubs aren't going to vote for a reduction in television income, regardless to how small a proportion they would lose.

That, and most clubs down south have seen how the Old Firm behave when they travel, and would no doubt face extra costs, adding more police on match-days as "Scottish yobos" would not only drag their neanderthal religious views with them, but no doubt would want to be "hardcore" and fight with some English fans, dragging up ancient history in the name of some alcohol fuelled violent patriotism!

[Vini1875]

Smoke and mirrors from this guy. He has the money to bring huge name players to celtc and turn them into a power house in Europe but he won't do it. Instead he pleads to Sky and the EPL to let them in so they can get some of the dough floating around down there. They just can't get it that no one wants them down south.

[SlickShoes]

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Smoke and mirrors from this guy. He has the money to bring huge name players to celtc and turn them into a power house in Europe but he won't do it. Instead he pleads to Sky and the EPL to let them in so they can get some of the dough floating around down there. They just can't get it that no one wants them down south.

Aye just looked him up and had no idea he was THAT rich, christ.

[cockneymike]

I read an interesting article on this just last week (forget where, sorry) and the point was made, that why would sky be interested in the OF joining the EPL? People always say that they would add so much, yet if the OF are such value added why is it the scottish tv deal is so crap? It is pretty much worse than the championship.

If sky thought it was so good, surely they'd pay much more for it, or alternatively there would be more demand? The fact that there isn't that demand from tv companies, setanta went bust trying to build a tv company on the back of the OF for goodness sake, so I'm not sure, they're nearly as special as they think they are.

I recognise that OF V top 4 or 5 clubs in england would be interesting for a little while, but realistically how long that would initial interest last, especially when the OF fans suddenly realise that they don't have the money to be much beyond a top 6 or 7 club, and that the CL is a distant dream?

[Hibs Class]

I'm constantly impressed at the OF's ability to find new ways to make the rest of Scottish football hate them with a renewed passion. Right now I couldn't hold either of them in any greater contempt, yet I know that I won't have to wait too long for further reasons to hate them even more.

[Kaiser1962]

I beg to differ lucky as we have been listening to this "sky will decide" nonsense since David Murray started spouting it 15 years ago. i agree that I think a British league will happen but only after a major cull of the, in particular loss-making, clubs. I believe there will be a major change in this regard in the next ten years and any club which is fiscally reckless will be punished. But Sky wont decide what happens, FIFA will.

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He is right Sky will decide if they are going to get to join. I am in favour of a UK wide league, it cant be any worse than the SPL. We never win anything in this league so an opportunity for Hibs to join another league with greater revenues would be attractive. As for Scotland I dont care, cheering on McGregor and co just does not appeal.

[The_Todd]

The chief exec of the EPL said last time they bought it up: "No means no."

They just can't let it go. They're embarrasing themselves, frankly.

[banarc7062]

Please, please don't go and leave us you Gods of Scottish Football. What would we do without you to save us and grant us the favour of a visit to our ground with your hoardes of **** and unwashed fans. Get tae F*** and leave us in peace

[GordonHFC]

Surely if shabby was sacked for touting himself for other jobs then surely the SPL would be within their rights to kick those lepers out of the league for acting in a similar manner.

[LeithBoozy]

Neither desirable or viable,widespread opposition, short shift. Just some of the words used before, what part of FO do the old-firm not understand?

[Part/Time Supporter]

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I read an interesting article on this just last week (forget where, sorry) and the point was made, that why would sky be interested in the OF joining the EPL? People always say that they would add so much, yet if the OF are such value added why is it the scottish tv deal is so crap? It is pretty much worse than the championship.

If sky thought it was so good, surely they'd pay much more for it, or alternatively there would be more demand? The fact that there isn't that demand from tv companies, setanta went bust trying to build a tv company on the back of the OF for goodness sake, so I'm not sure, they're nearly as special as they think they are.

I recognise that OF V top 4 or 5 clubs in england would be interesting for a little while, but realistically how long that would initial interest last, especially when the OF fans suddenly realise that they don't have the money to be much beyond a top 6 or 7 club, and that the CL is a distant dream?

Setanta were doing okay while they were just showing the SPL and other odds and sods. They went bust after they tried to compete with Sky and spent big money on EPL, FA Cup and England rights.

The ratings for SPL aren't that bad strangely enough, the problem is that it is a niche market in terms of driving subscriptions (which is the basis of a pay TV market). The elite events get the top dollar and everyone else pretty much has to take what's left.

[Kaiser1962]

There should certainly be restrictions on debt but at what level? I would imagine DD is not proposing a wage cap in Scotland at the level of Kilmarnock or Inverness but at an amount that can only be afforded by Rangers or Celtic, thus retaining their advantage. DD is only looking at things like wage caps to even things up because Celtic can't afford to compete with the big boys and are losing out on signings. But its ok when they unsettle players by offering much bigger wages that other clubs in in Scotland. Hypocrite.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/8954996.stm
What a tit. Especially the bit about wage caps. We can't pay big wages anymore therefore they should be capped, desite us paying 10x as much in wages as the rest our of current rivals. Pr1ck!

[Dashing Bob S]

I think its more likely that bigger clubs in smaller countries will decide to form their own league. There is nothing to be gained by established leagues letting them in, sharing TV money, European spots and causing bother with UEFA/FIFA, to say nothing of international considerations and the potential political ramifications.

However, the clubs in Scotland, Holland, Belgium and Scandinavia could circumvent this by forming their own premiership and championship, with a regional feeder system. This would also have appeal to English language broadcasters, with a viewing population of around 50 mill, it would be up there with the big four of Spain, Germany, England and France. Probably then we would have a South European league federation, and one for the smaller East European countries, bar Russia, which is big enough as a developing stand alone.

For something like to work, it would have to be association rather than select club-led or broadcast-led, (I think the money and corruption in the game means its pulling away from this slowly and towards more regulation and democracy) and sadly the SFA are nowhere near visionary enough and mired in petty self-interest.

It's a rational structure though; eight roughly similar sized leagues, five from the bigger nations, three being federations of smaller nations. They could then rationally split into European and Europa leagues.

[pacorosssco]

I hate Celtic and Rangers . It is a disgrace the other clubs dont stand up to them.

They should be booted out the league and made to play themselves week in week out. They should show respect to the league they do play in.

It is well documented there is no money in Scottish football but that is the case in many leagues but they make the best of what they have. Without doubt attendances would rise if they left. Youth would rightly be given its chance and we would see a much more competitive league which in turn eventually would see increased revenue and tv money as well as a much better international side well unless that muppet levein is still in charge.

ABTOF
anyone but the old firm

[Joe Baker II]

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I think its more likely that bigger clubs in smaller countries will decide to form their own league. There is nothing to be gained by established leagues letting them in, sharing TV money, European spots and causing bother with UEFA/FIFA, to say nothing of international considerations and the potential political ramifications.

However, the clubs in Scotland, Holland, Belgium and Scandinavia could circumvent this by forming their own premiership and championship, with a regional feeder system. This would also have appeal to English language broadcasters, with a viewing population of around 50 mill, it would be up there with the big four of Spain, Germany, England and France. Probably then we would have a South European league federation, and one for the smaller East European countries, bar Russia, which is big enough as a developing stand alone.

For something like to work, it would have to be association rather than select club-led or broadcast-led, (I think the money and corruption in the game means its pulling away from this slowly and towards more regulation and democracy) and sadly the SFA are nowhere near visionary enough and mired in petty self-interest.

It's a rational structure though; eight roughly similar sized leagues, five from the bigger nations, three being federations of smaller nations. They could then rationally split into European and Europa leagues.

Totally agree and what you suggest has a lot of benefits albeit some disadvantages - rather like Scottish clubs joining English and Welsh league.

Interestingly I understand FIFA is close to giving the green light to the re(merger) of the Czech and Slovak leagues without affecting their international teams.

[Joe Baker II]

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Without doubt attendances would rise if they left. Youth would rightly be given its chance and we would see a much more competitive league which in turn eventually would see increased revenue and tv money as well as a much better international side well unless that muppet levein is still in charge.

ABTOF
anyone but the old firm

Except they will not be leaving Scotland, and given there would be even less coverage if OfF got more frequent games v Man U/Liverpool or in event of Atlantic/smaller country-type association Ajax/Porto etc I am mystifed where a sudden rise in attendances and tv money for the likes of Hibs would suddenly appear from, unless we joined them in such a league! in which case they are hardly leaving us!

And the recent Rangers game was one of Hibs best turn outs against the OF for a while despite kick off time and live coverage - did not get impression most fans there want the OF to play elsewhere.

[StevieC]

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And the recent Rangers game was one of Hibs best turn outs against the OF for a while despite kick off time and live coverage

Shiny new stand??

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did not get impression most fans there want the OF to play elsewhere.

How many did you ask? You should speak to me and my mates sometime, it might leave a different impression.

[pacorosssco]

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Except they will not be leaving Scotland, and given there would be even less coverage if OfF got more frequent games v Man U/Liverpool or in event of Atlantic/smaller country-type association Ajax/Porto etc I am mystifed where a sudden rise in attendances and tv money for the likes of Hibs would suddenly appear from, unless we joined them in such a league! in which case they are hardly leaving us!

And the recent Rangers game was one of Hibs best turn outs against the OF for a while despite kick off time and live coverage - did not get impression most fans there want the OF to play elsewhere.

i dont think it is celtic or rangers choice to play in whatever league the wish. id rather they were left to play each other. Hibs have as much to benefit from playing down south and the exposure to increased revenue as them.

it is a complete disgrace the attitude they show the scottish league and i for one would like to see them told to shut up or resign from league.

I dont speak for the Hibs support but most Hibs and other scottish teams fans I know agree the benefit of them being expelled

There would be no overnight fix if they left but what benefits have we seen from them not leaving ten years ago?

What future would they have if kicked out league.?

It is time they were presented with this fact. If they have no league or european football they will finish and very quickly

We are a small country but a competitive league with young players being given a chance would I believe increase attendances. This can only benefit the future of the Scottish game

Look at hibs in first division as an example of attendance.

[dangermouse]

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Smoke and mirrors from this guy. He has the money to bring huge name players to celtc and turn them into a power house in Europe but he won't do it. Instead he pleads to Sky and the EPL to let them in so they can get some of the dough floating around down there. They just can't get it that no one wants them down south.

No one wants them up here either.

[greenginger]

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No one wants them up here either.

I think the English got a little sample of the self proclaimed "Best Fans in the World " at the pre season friendly at Lincoln or somewhere.

Pro IRA and terrorist songs and young army cadets being threatened and abused with the usual 30 odd arrests.
Usual Saturday performance by the Mhanks.

[Dashing Bob S]

Tbh, I'm so disillusioned with Scottish football at the moment, and the powers that administer it, the biggest mystery now to me is not how the OF constantly go on about wanting to quit, but how Hibs, Hearts, A'deen and Dundee United remain deafeningly silent to the possibility.

I'd rather play in an Atlantic League Championship with the possibility of going into a Premiership that remain in the current straightjacket which offers us zero prospects in the long term.

I really believe that these clubs have to advance the case for reorganisation on a footballing basis. If they fail to advocate in this manner, then the same tired money-orientated agenda will continue to be set by the OF and ignored by England.

I'd like to see some of the clubs in the top leagues in Scotland, Holland, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden and Norway, get together and admit that they are never going to be strong enough to win the European Cup again in their current leagues, as there isn't enough money in their domestic leagues. It's ridiculous that Ajax, for example, with their European pedigree are marginalised in this way. If those clubs stand together and combine leagues, smaller nation clubs would have a structure which gave ambitious and well-run clubs (not simply moneyed ones) a route to advance.

Personally, I'd love to see such a league(s) constituted along the lines of the Bundesliga rather than the EPL, but that's just my preference. That involves thinking about grass roots development and feeder leagues, rather than being broadcast led.

[Keith_M]

DBS, I agree with what you said but can't help thinking that the SFA is too backward an organisation to make anything like this happen. It'd also be a case of Turkeys Voting for Christmas, as they'd no longer be in charge.

The system in the Netherlands, I believe, has a quite altruistic view of TV payouts. It's not based on the size of the club but on ensuring the league remains healthy and competitive. I can't see the OF being happy about playing under such circumstances.

[pacorosssco]

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Tbh, I'm so disillusioned with Scottish football at the moment, and the powers that administer it, the biggest mystery now to me is not how the OF constantly go on about wanting to quit, but how Hibs, Hearts, A'deen and Dundee United remain deafeningly silent to the possibility.

I'd rather play in an Atlantic League Championship with the possibility of going into a Premiership that remain in the current straightjacket which offers us zero prospects in the long term.

I really believe that these clubs have to advance the case for reorganisation on a footballing basis. If they fail to advocate in this manner, then the same tired money-orientated agenda will continue to be set by the OF and ignored by England.

I'd like to see some of the clubs in the top leagues in Scotland, Holland, Denmark, Belgium, Sweden and Norway, get together and admit that they are never going to be strong enough to win the European Cup again in their current leagues, as there isn't enough money in their domestic leagues. It's ridiculous that Ajax, for example, with their European pedigree are marginalised in this way. If those clubs stand together and combine leagues, smaller nation clubs would have a structure which gave ambitious and well-run clubs (not simply moneyed ones) a route to advance.

Personally, I'd love to see such a league(s) constituted along the lines of the Bundesliga rather than the EPL, but that's just my preference. That involves thinking about grass roots development and feeder leagues, rather than being broadcast led.

Bundesliga is the model but Germany is a far bigger country than ours but compare lower teams in top flight in Germany with Wigan etc and they get a good 10k more support at games

If uefa weren't so corrupt there wouldn't be the current monopoly in european football. platini(horrible james blunt) is ensuring that the big teams remain just that and that there will be no more man city/chelsea scenarios where rich owners can buy in to private club

The current format of CL has ensured the smallest countries cannot get to the plate of the big bucks and I would argue that it should go back to being for League winners only.It could keep some sort of league format and semi/finals with top 2 from 2 leagues

The Europa should run on a similar basis and the money in each completion should be similar. Clubs should also have a debt to spending cap .

Sadly wont happen.

Still say Celtic and Rangers should be made to show more respect to the league we all play in and if they dont. Kick them out

[pacorosssco]

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DBS, I agree with what you said but can't help thinking that the SFA is too backward an organisation to make anything like this happen. It'd also be a case of Turkeys Voting for Christmas, as they'd no longer be in charge.

The system in the Netherlands, I believe, has a quite altruistic view of TV payouts. It's not based on the size of the club but on ensuring the league remains healthy and competitive. I can't see the OF being happy about playing under such circumstances.

The OF shouldnt get the choice.Here in problem lies. They dictate to rest of league,

[Dashing Bob S]

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The OF shouldnt get the choice.Here in problem lies. They dictate to rest of league,

The problem is with the other clubs, not the OF. They just try to advance their own interests. The other clubs never speak up on the state of the game, or come together to form any sort of view. Hibs, Hearts, A'deen and DU should have some sort of east coast forum to advance their interests, which are similar. All other Scottish clubs do is sit on their hands and wait for Rantic to say something, then decide whether to keep their heads down or give a mild tsk tsk.

It's not about reacting to everything they do or say. Its about standing up for your own collective interests the way the OF do. Hibs and Hearts administrators can barely bring themselves to acknowledge the others existence. If they did talk, they'd be asking themselves, 'does it suit two clubs from an international city like Edinburgh to be floundering in the backwater of Scottish football, when they could be having 500-3,800 football tourists coming into the city from the continent every week, instead of 200 from Motherwell or Paisley?'

[JohnScott]

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The problem is with the other clubs, not the OF. They just try to advance their own interests. The other clubs never speak up on the state of the game, or come together to form any sort of view. Hibs, Hearts, A'deen and DU should have some sort of east coast forum to advance their interests, which are similar. All other Scottish clubs do is sit on their hands and wait for Rantic to say something, then decide whether to keep their heads down or give a mild tsk tsk.

It's not about reacting to everything they do or say. Its about standing up for your own collective interests the way the OF do. Hibs and Hearts administrators can barely bring themselves to acknowledge the others existence. If they did talk, they'd be asking themselves, 'does it suit two clubs from an international city like Edinburgh to be floundering in the backwater of Scottish football, when they could be having 500-3,800 football tourists coming into the city from the continent every week, instead of 200 from Motherwell or Paisley?'

No offence but Maribor brought 40 or so fans to ER. Cheap Euro flights are harder to get nowadays and they'll soon be more expensive if they think fans will be travelling in decent numbers. So your estimate of 500 - 3,800 is a bit too optimistic IMHO. Personally I think it's time for a UK super-league with area leagues and play-offs. That way clubs like Hibs, Hearts, Dundee Utd and Motherwell could have a chance of reaching a lucrative play-off each season. The top teams in these leagues (Rangers, Celtic ) could then progress to the Premiership. I'm sure most Championship clubs would enjoy a visit to Edinburgh. Something needs to change, that's for sure.

As for the Old Firm? What makes them think the vast majority of the Premiership wants them? I don't get their thinking on this!