White Flag

[Aubenas]

I give up.

Officially, I don't understand a section of the Hibs support.

Scientists tell us that the part of the brain that works out consequences doesn't fully mature in males till the age of 22 or 23. This explains the awful carnage of young men on our roads, but surely the majority of posters on here can't be male and under 23????

Hibs come by a talented but flawed footballer by offering him a chance to put himself in the shop window.

He takes advantage of their offer but ensures he can go where he wants when he wants - as you would.

Hibs gain 22 goals in a difficult season for them and also £1.5 million pounds.

The striker has contributed little to the team apart from goals and may have had a deleterious effect on the pitch and in the dressing room.
By selling him, Hibs rid the dressing room of bad feeling and free up wages for a number of useful signings ( which the fans have been demanding)

Fans' reaction: Typical Hibs, losing our best player, always the same, Petrie's crap, etc etc.

OK guys: question: Name me the teams that don't sell their best players?
Name me another top 6 team in Scotland not in financial difficulty
Name me a team in Scotland outside OF with a better stadium or training facility
Name me a team in Scotland that have made a quarter of what Hibs have by judicious selling

When you've found them, why not go and support them - cos obviously Hibs must be getting it wrong.

And also, save yourself the embarrassment of saying 'I don't care about the balance sheet' - cos that's like a driver saying 'sod the petrol'; and don't say 'Take a risk by spending more on players' cos that's like passing the petrol station when the tank shows nearly empty.

Hibs are a wonderful club, with a great history and an excellent board, wouldn't it be great if they got the fans they deserved.
Rant probably not over.

[Antifa Hibs]

Two things really.

First off all selling a player to those ****s through West, second off all, will the manager get a slice of the cash (i'm talking about transfer fee's, not just a grand a week on a no-body)???

If Stokes was to go down south, i'd wish him all the best, but he lacks ambition (if he goes that is) and goes to Celtic Football Club, a team we all detest, so he can GTF. It wouldn't be that bad if Hughes got some cash to replace him with, but the likely hood is he want.

This £1.5m will probably fill the gap in the accounts on season ticket revenue lost, Hibs will announce some 'profits made again' nonsense in april, make sure the support still brown-nose Petrie and STF, they then ensure they still get there £500k cut out of Hibs.

We knocked down the terracing, replaced it with a new stand taking the capacity to over 20,000. What away to ensure we will it, selling a top player to our rivals

I got a half day tomorrow so I could go and buy a season ticket (pay day), think i'll hold on until the transfer window...

[Shrekko]

Superbly put Aubenas. Great to read a bit of sanity on 'the night of the Hibee drama queens'

[EskbankHibby]

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I give up.

Officially, I don't understand a section of the Hibs support.

Scientists tell us that the part of the brain that works out consequences doesn't fully mature in males till the age of 22 or 23. This explains the awful carnage of young men on our roads, but surely the majority of posters on here can't be male and under 23????

Hibs come by a talented but flawed footballer by offering him a chance to put himself in the shop window.

He takes advantage of their offer but ensures he can go where he wants when he wants - as you would.

Hibs gain 22 goals in a difficult season for them and also £1.5 million pounds.

The striker has contributed little to the team apart from goals and may have had a deleterious effect on the pitch and in the dressing room.
By selling him, Hibs rid the dressing room of bad feeling and free up wages for a number of useful signings ( which the fans have been demanding)

Fans' reaction: Typical Hibs, losing our best player, always the same, Petrie's crap, etc etc.

OK guys: question: Name me the teams that don't sell their best players?
Name me another top 6 team in Scotland not in financial difficulty
Name me a team in Scotland outside OF with a better stadium or training facility
Name me a team in Scotland that have made a quarter of what Hibs have by judicious selling

When you've found them, why not go and support them - cos obviously Hibs must be getting it wrong.

And also, save yourself the embarrassment of saying 'I don't care about the balance sheet' - cos that's like a driver saying 'sod the petrol'; and don't say 'Take a risk by spending more on players' cos that's like passing the petrol station when the tank shows nearly empty.

Hibs are a wonderful club, with a great history and an excellent board, wouldn't it be great if they got the fans they deserved.
Rant probably not over.

Is it ok to be disappointed if we lose our top goalscorer to one of the OF after just 2 league games and less than a week of the transfer window left?

[Sir David Gray]

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I give up.

Officially, I don't understand a section of the Hibs support.

Scientists tell us that the part of the brain that works out consequences doesn't fully mature in males till the age of 22 or 23. This explains the awful carnage of young men on our roads, but surely the majority of posters on here can't be male and under 23????

Hibs come by a talented but flawed footballer by offering him a chance to put himself in the shop window.

He takes advantage of their offer but ensures he can go where he wants when he wants - as you would.

Hibs gain 22 goals in a difficult season for them and also £1.5 million pounds.

The striker has contributed little to the team apart from goals and may have had a deleterious effect on the pitch and in the dressing room.
By selling him, Hibs rid the dressing room of bad feeling and free up wages for a number of useful signings ( which the fans have been demanding)

Fans' reaction: Typical Hibs, losing our best player, always the same, Petrie's crap, etc etc.

OK guys: question: Name me the teams that don't sell their best players?
Name me another top 6 team in Scotland not in financial difficulty
Name me a team in Scotland outside OF with a better stadium or training facility
Name me a team in Scotland that have made a quarter of what Hibs have by judicious selling

When you've found them, why not go and support them - cos obviously Hibs must be getting it wrong.

And also, save yourself the embarrassment of saying 'I don't care about the balance sheet' - cos that's like a driver saying 'sod the petrol'; and don't say 'Take a risk by spending more on players' cos that's like passing the petrol station when the tank shows nearly empty.

Hibs are a wonderful club, with a great history and an excellent board, wouldn't it be great if they got the fans they deserved.
Rant probably not over.

With regards the bit in bold, that's what Stokes was brought to Hibs to do. Without him last season, we would have been in danger of being in the bottom six.

I think people are angry at the fact that things seem to be so brilliant off the pitch, we have the best stadium in Scotland outside of Glasgow by a country mile and, by all accounts, we also have a training centre that rivals anything else in the UK, yet on the pitch, the most important part of any football club, we seem to have a lot of deficiencies and then we go on to apparently sell our top striker to a rival club.

For the kind of money that we are talking about here, I don't see how it's good business for Hibs to be selling Stokes for that kind of amount to Celtic with only a few days left of the transfer window, particularly when he still has two years left on his current contract. If he was to have another good season this year, score another 20 odd goals and get a few senior caps for the Republic of Ireland, this time next year we could be talking about bids from down south for a lot more money than Celtic are offering just now.

Obviously there is the possibility that Stokes has instructed his agent to put pressure on Hibs to accept the offer from Celtic because he wants to go there and if that is the case then it does put Hibs in an awkward situation. You only need to look at the examples in England recently of Javier Mascherano and Asmir Begovic, both of whom apparently refused to play for their clubs, to see that the power is firmly in the hands of the players these days and if they are hell-bent on leaving then there is very little that their club can do.

I just really hate seeing our players leave for Rangers and Celtic, it just makes you sick of the whole situation but I suppose we all knew deep down that there would be a good chance that Stokes would end up at Celtic one day. I've no doubt that in the next few days, if indeed he does end up going there, we will here all about how he's signed for his boyhood heroes and how he's always dreamt to play for Celtic etc etc etc

I just hope that, if he does go, Hughes has at least two suitable replacements in mind before the window shuts. If Stokes does go and we don't get adequate replacements up front, I fear that this could end up being a very long season.

[HFC 0-7]

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Superbly put Aubenas. Great to read a bit of sanity on 'the night of the Hibee drama queens'

Hibs have supposed to have a great balance sheet, the training centre is done, the stand is done. So why do we need to keep selling players now that everything is completed? Hibs have managed to build 4 new stands and a training complex through selling players, what good is selling player going to bring now?

If you are going to sell players why not try and do what every other club tries to do, sell them to a team that isnt your competitor. What do you think is going to happen if you sell your best assett to a competitor and dont put the WHOLE amount of money back into the team?

Hibs fans have put up with the constant selling of our best players because we had things to pay for like Debt, Stands and training complexes. These are all done, its the time that us hibbys have all been waiting for and a couple of weeks after we have completed everything, it looks like our top goalscorer is going!

If we can throw millions into the stands, now that they are complete why cant the millions be thrown at the team?

I think the balance between football vs business has now moved to far to the business side and what has really been forgotten is what football is really about. . . . . Winning!

What if we throw cash into the team for 2 or 3 years and put ourselves into 4 or 5 million of debt and win nothing? we will do what we are doing now, sell players and win nothing, but at least it will be exciting for the fans for those 2 or 3 years.

i for one would welcome 2 or 3 years of going for it and getting a little into debt and then 2 or 3 years of spending nothing and selling players. Its all about finding the balance.

[snooky]

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Two things really.

First off all selling a player to those ****s through West, second off all, will the manager get a slice of the cash (i'm talking about transfer fee's, not just a grand a week on a no-body)???

If Stokes was to go down south, i'd wish him all the best, but he lacks ambition (if he goes that is) and goes to Celtic Football Club, a team we all detest, so he can GTF. It wouldn't be that bad if Hughes got some cash to replace him with, but the likely hood is he want.

This £1.5m will probably fill the gap in the accounts on season ticket revenue lost, Hibs will announce some 'profits made again' nonsense in april, make sure the support still brown-nose Petrie and STF, they then ensure they still get there £500k cut out of Hibs.

We knocked down the terracing, replaced it with a new stand taking the capacity to over 20,000. What away to ensure we will it, selling a top player to our rivals

I got a half day tomorrow so I could go and buy a season ticket (pay day), think i'll hold on until the transfer window...

There seems to be two distinct sides on the "Stokes to Celtic" matter.
For the record, I'm on AH's team.

[Shrekko]

I think we need to get one thing straight re Stokes- Celtic are the only show in town for him. His stock in England is very low- he could score 40 goals in the SPL next season and I dont think an EPL club would bat an eyelid... and he'd have only 1 year of his contract left.

Ideally, he'd stay (even though I think he is a poor footballer minus the goals) but HE will want to go to Celtic. Lets move on and get on with bringing other players in and he can take his baggage West.

The business v football argument is a non-starter. Our players, especially the ones with allegiances to the OF will always want to go and play for them. Thats not Hibs fault- we all know why the Old Firm will always be much bigger clubs than us.

Anthony Stokes is nothing special as a player or as a person- I'm sorry, I just cant get worked up over this. To suggest we cant improve as a team when he leaves is just guessing. We lost our 2 key players last summer but gathered more points last season than in the one before. People need to stop being so hysterical over something that happens to virtually every club regularly.

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

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I think we need to get one thing straight re Stokes- Celtic are the only show in town for him. His stock in England is very low- he could score 40 goals in the SPL next season and I dont think an EPL club would bat an eyelid... and he'd have only 1 year of his contract left.

Ideally, he'd stay (even though I think he is a poor footballer minus the goals) but HE will want to go to Celtic. Lets move on and get on with bringing other players in and he can take his baggage West.

The business v football argument is a non-starter. Our players, especially the ones with allegiances to the OF will always want to go and play for them. Thats not Hibs fault- we all know why the Old Firm will always be much bigger clubs than us.

Anthony Stokes is nothing special as a player or as a person- I'm sorry, I just cant get worked up over this. To suggest we cant improve as a team when he leaves is just guessing. We lost our 2 key players last summer but gathered more points last season than in the one before. People need to stop being so hysterical over something that happens to virtually every club regularly.

[Geo_1875]

I can only say that if Stokes is sold what dirty rotten ****my ******* he is. However, if he doesn't go what a wonderful loyal human being he turned out to be. Has he gone yet?

[Aubenas]

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I can only say that if Stokes is sold what dirty rotten ****my ******* he is. However, if he doesn't go what a wonderful loyal human being he turned out to be. Has he gone yet?

[Captain Trips]

As much as we may like or dislike the player or think good or bad, bottom line is, we are possibly selling our top scorer to a rival club that is the bottom line and no matter how rational or irrational peoples thoughts are, this is not something that can be seen as a positive, Hibs will have to line up something appealing to replace or that stand will have a nasty echo.

[LeithBoozy]

We sat and watched on sunday as a former favourite of ours ripped us a new one. Kenney millar's hat-trick not the first time he has done for us. So now we might have the pleasure of paying £27 to see stokes get the chance of a go at our defence with Celtic what a thought.

[Geo_1875]

All I've heard so far is that Lennon has indicated that Celtc would be interested in Stokes and the media giving it the usual guff about "sources" stating that he is close to signing. This is the normal practice when the window is closing. They may genuinely be interested but until Hibs make an announcement I'll keep my powder dry. I can't understand the number of "Hibs fans" desperate to start a hate campaign on the basis of weegie media rumours.

[Lucius Apuleius]

My tuppence. We gave him a chance and it worked. He scored a lot of goals for us and I am grateful for them. Does he want to stay at Hibs? That to me is the important question. If he does, excellent. If not, not a lot we can do about it. Throw him to training with the lads? Kind of cuts off our noses to spite our faces, no? We are never going to stop players wanting to go to the OF. They are still perceived to be the ultimate teams to play for in Scotland. What we have to do is first of all find players who want to play for Hibs for a long period (long contracts??) or make sure when they do leave we get the best price possible. Of course in a perfect world we would not sell to either of the OF but the reality is that the mindset of a lot of players in Scotland is such that it is the only teams they want to play for. Very few have the balls to go to engerlund. Why is that do you think? Definite chance of playing in the CL every season or mid table in engerlund. Lots of medals to show to the grandkids or mid table in engerlund?

[down-the-slope]

HELLO

Lot of people not 'listning' to whats being said....Hibs up to a point have no control over when and to whom and for how much Stokes goes......

As a free agent a release clause was put in his contract...if a club (even one we dislike at a time we would preffer not) meets the release fee we are obliged to allow Stokes to talk to them IF he wants to (so its about what Stokes wants not Hibs)

And before the knee jerkers start with why did we allow such a clause..blah blah....do you really think we would get a player sold recently for £2million on a free with no potential future benefit to the individual....

[Gus]

I understand the arguement that Hibs have got a good season out of Stokes & he clearly must have an agreement in his contract for the low selling fee..............


what i say is though is WHY OH F IN WHY sell one of our best players again to a freakin RIVAL in the SPL

This makes no sense at all, Man City wouldn't do it with Bellamy & fair play to them

Hibs do this over and over again

[Steve20]

I wouldn't mind that he is leaving if the money we get is used to bring in players in the 3 or 4 positions I think we need. I just don't think Hibs will use the money for that.


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[hughio]

Suberbly put by the OP

Sadly people dont read or understand though.

Put it this way..if a player wants to leave ,has the right to go contractually and will be getting much more money to do so then he's gone and nobody can do anything about it.

[Jack]

Catch 22 really for me.
.
Are Celtc really our rivals?
.
They always seem to be so far ahead of us they are hardly rivals. If they didn't buy/steal our players they'd just buy as good quality elsewhere and we would still need to sell!

[LancashireHibby]

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I understand the arguement that Hibs have got a good season out of Stokes & he clearly must have an agreement in his contract for the low selling fee..............


what i say is though is WHY OH F IN WHY sell one of our best players again to a freakin RIVAL in the SPL

This makes no sense at all, Man City wouldn't do it with Bellamy & fair play to them

Hibs do this over and over again

If Celtic's bid meets the clause in his contract then there's nothing that can be done.

I think it's a fact of life that our position in the food chain dictates that we're little choice but to sell our top players every now and then.

[Sergio sledge]

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Catch 22 really for me.
.
Are Celtc really our rivals?
.
They always seem to be so far ahead of us they are hardly rivals. If they didn't buy/steal our players they'd just buy as good quality elsewhere and we would still need to sell!

Apart from the "need to sell" bit, I agree with you. Hibs don't "need" to sell him, but like the majority of clubs in the world, every player in our squad has a price that we would be willing to consider selling them at, and when a club meets that valuation, then we will think about selling. Even Man Utd take the same view, look at their sale of Ronaldo. Chelsea sold Carvalho, Villa sold Milner, Liverpool sold Alonso.... I could go on.

Celtic and Rangers are so far ahead of us in playing and financial terms that we cannot compete with them, so to describe them as our rivals is a bit of a stretch. Kind of like saying Fulham should never sell their players to Man Utd or Chelsea.

Perhaps next season when Qualifying for the Champions League will get a whole lot harder for Rangers and Celtic, we can start to close the gap on them a bit and compete with them, but the sad reality is that we will never be able to compete with them in wages or transfer fees.

The OF are the only show in town for Stokes, he has shown he can do it in the SPL, but failed in the EPL and the Championship, so if he wants to get a big wage, then his only options at the minute are Celtic and Rangers. Perhaps if he scores lots of goals for one of the OF, he can think about moving back down south, but even then it will only be to the Championship. Look at Boyd or McDonald at Middlesbrough, they have dominated the scoring charts over the last few years, but could only get a move to a championship club.

I'm not happy selling Stokes, especially this late in the transfer window, but life goes on. We replaced O'Connor, we replaced Riordan the first time, we replaced Fletcher last year, and we'll replace Stokes. Perhaps the team will be improved with the wages freed up by Stokes leaving. We'll just have to wait and see.

[number 27]

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If Celtic's bid meets the clause in his contract then there's nothing that can be done.

I think it's a fact of life that our position in the food chain dictates that we're little choice but to sell our top players every now and then.

Why is it that this so called clause is being accepted as a fact. Apart from speculation is there anything to back this up

[LancashireHibby]

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Why is it that this so called clause is being accepted as a fact. Apart from speculation is there anything to back this up

Everything mentioned so far in relation to Stokes could filed under 'speculation'.

[J-C]

Come on now folk, did you all in honesty think Stokes was ever going to be hee for the long haul.

He's made it perfectly clear that he's a huge Celtic fan and would jump at the chance of going west, yes he scores goals but splitting dressing rooms, heavy drinking and a severe gambling problem is something which we can do without.

There's a clause in his contract for exactly this situation, do you really all think that Stokes gives a flying f*** for what the suppoters think, or is he just looking after No.1.

We took a we gamble on him, he helped us get into Europe and now he looks like he's b***ering off, it happens in football and hopefuly Yogi and the board are looking into replacing him, hence the 2 strikers we had here this past 2 weeks.

[Phil MaGlass]

Thing is, even IF there is a clause which states that, if a club meets the 800,000-1,000,000 clause, he is allowed to talk to them, that clause does not mean we have to sell him for that price, thats only to let the other club talk to him.

[Peevemor]

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Thing is, even IF there is a clause which states that, if a club meets the 800,000-1,000,000 clause, he is allowed to talk to them, that clause does not mean we have to sell him for that price, thats only to let the other club talk to him.

I'm not sure about that. What purpose would the clause serve in that case?

[Future17]

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OK guys: question: Name me the teams that don't sell their best players?
Name me another top 6 team in Scotland not in financial difficulty
Name me a team in Scotland outside OF with a better stadium or training facility
Name me a team in Scotland that have made a quarter of what Hibs have by judicious selling

While I understand your point of view and agree, up to a point, that's a very subjective list of questions that supports your opinion. How about:

Name me another "top 6" team in Scotland who haven't won the top league title since 1952?
Name me another "top 6" team in Scotland who haven't won the Scottish Cup since 1902?
Name me the last time the fans of any football club lined the streets of their home city to celebrate excellent fiscal performance and had their photo taken with their clubs financial accounts?

Not everybody takes the same attitude to the actions of the club they love as you and not everybody wants to.

A lot of fans of this club want to win trophies, see great performances and have as talented a team on the pitch as possible and, understandably, get annoyed and frustrated when something happens which could be seen to get in the way of those objectives.

Add to that the feeling that, not only are we losing someone who is a major player in our team (and our league), but his loss will strengthen one of our rivals.

You might not feel that way but some fans do and your dismissal of them as if they are somehow not as good a fan as you is, IMO, bang out of order.

[Aubenas]

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While I understand your point of view and agree, up to a point, that's a very subjective list of questions that supports your opinion. How about:

Name me another "top 6" team in Scotland who haven't won the top league title since 1952?
Name me another "top 6" team in Scotland who haven't won the Scottish Cup since 1902?
Name me the last time the fans of any football club lined the streets of their home city to celebrate excellent fiscal performance and had their photo taken with their clubs financial accounts?

Not everybody takes the same attitude to the actions of the club they love as you and not everybody wants to.

A lot of fans of this club want to win trophies, see great performances and have as talented a team on the pitch as possible and, understandably, get annoyed and frustrated when something happens which could be seen to get in the way of those objectives.

Add to that the feeling that, not only are we losing someone who is a major player in our team (and our league), but his loss will strengthen one of our rivals.

You might not feel that way but some fans do and your dismissal of them as if they are somehow not as good a fan as you is, IMO, bang out of order.

That's a great response and I wouldn't take issue with any of it. I wasn't claiming any high ground, just saying, I suppose, that I find it hard to understand that different point of view. Hope no-one took offence!

[Hainan Hibs]

I'm showing the white flag for uber fan threads. This latest one has opened the water works.