Sack The (Main) Board

[Beefster]

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Well said speedway. The idea that you get anywhere in Euurope with the usual up and at them 'kick and rush' football, typically found in most SPL games is nonsense.

4-5-1 was the right thing to do - and that meant Nish up front as he's the only forward we have who has any credibility playing with his back to goal. Stokes and Riordan would have been standing with their hands on hips sullenly glaring at their team mates after about 15 mins.

If we could have held on at 0-0, 1-0 until the hour mark, then Stokes and Riordan would almost certainly come on, and if one of them had got a goal then we'd all be on here saying what a tactical genius Hughes was.

I've never been a huge fan of Hughes, but some of the ill informed and ignorant criticism of him after last night can only have been dreamt up by posters who do not have the interests of the club in mind.

Frankly, why were people expecting anything different?

If my Auntie had balls......

Hypothetical situations are useless after the event. Too many times in important games, Hughes tactics have been left wanting. Them's the facts.

[Big Frank]

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The funny thing is, some of those who are castigating the tactics last night and saying Riordan and Stokes should have started would be the same ones who would have been on here criticising Yogi for being too attack minded if he had started them and we'd lost three nil

Barney, how do you quantify the above


The Hibernian support can blame the coaching side, the playing side, the tactics, the weather conditions, whatever. Essentially its splitting hairs. I'm sure there is not one Hibby out there who thought that yesterday was even satisfactory. Really we are all signing from the same hymn sheet. We were gantin' last night, backing or not backing Hughes is neither here nor there.

[Barney McGrew]

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Barney, how do you quantify the above

To my mind, there are sections of our support who don't like Yogi, and would take any chance to lay blame with him. Do you think if we'd started with Ant and Deek, played a bit more open than we did last night and still lost 3-0 then he would have avoided criticism?

To my mind, the system last night was probably the right way to set up. You could split hairs on the personnel deployed, but the system was right IMO. What you can't quantify is slips and individual mistakes that cost us two goals - on another night they don't happen and we come back with a 1-0 defeat. On another night Miller's shot at the end of the first half goes in and we go in level at half time.

I've no problem with discussing the ins and outs of the tactics we used and the players deployed, but some of the stuff on here since the final whistle last night is insane. There's an awful lot of keyboard managers on messageboards

Football Manager has a lot to answer for.

[(((Fergus)))]

When the team was announced, people were already going mental because Stokes and Deeks were on the bench. Would anyone have complained had they been named in the lineup instead of, say, Nish and McBride/Wotherspoon?

BTW here are the UEFA stats with/without Stokes and Riordan:

Without Riordan/Stokes
Shots on target:
Maribor 8 Hibs 4 (Rankin, Miller, Murray, Nish)
Shots off target:
Maribor 4 Hibs 2 (Nish, McBride)
Corners:
Maribor 3 Hibs 5

With Riordan/Stokes
Shots on target:
Maribor 2 Hibs 1 (De Graaf)
Shots off target:
Maribor 2 Hibs 2 (Riordan, Galbraith)
Corners:
Maribor 2 Hibs 1

[Springbank]

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When the team was announced, people were already going mental because Stokes and Deeks were on the bench. Would anyone have complained had they been named in the lineup instead of, say, Nish and McBride/Wotherspoon?

BTW here are the UEFA stats with/without Stokes and Riordan:

Without Riordan/Stokes
Shots on target:
Maribor 8 Hibs 4 (Rankin, Miller, Murray, Nish)
Shots off target:
Maribor 4 Hibs 2 (Nish, McBride)
Corners:
Maribor 3 Hibs 5

With Riordan/Stokes
Shots on target:
Maribor 2 Hibs 1 (De Graaf)
Shots off target:
Maribor 2 Hibs 2 (Riordan, Galbraith)
Corners:
Maribor 2 Hibs 1

so, first up, I realise this is a risk posting on an uberfan thread with my paltry number of posts. But trust me, this is 100% Hibernian.

I think the lessons from the pre-season are that almost every one of our goals has involved Riordan as either scorer or assist.

The stats above don't show that we actually got scudded when Riordan and Stokes were on the bench.

As mentioned elsewhere on another thread, I'm a dad of a wee boy who will grow up in the Hibee tradition and family.

I don't bring him along to games to see journeymen run around. He can learn about aspects of the game from our best players (Riordan's technique, Stokes instinct in the box, Zemmama all round really) but I think he can only really learn bad habits from watching Rankin, Nish, Hogg. It's just my opinion, I'm not ramming this down anyone's throat.

But the answer to the OP's initial paragraph (what would we have done with Riordan on the pitch) the answer to me lies in the Dutch tour...we score a goal. Without him, we score none.

It was therefore in my view (and just my view) a major call to leave the main goal scorer out.

And it didn't go well (even with the happiest of clapping intent)

[weonlywon6-2]

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Agree 100%

They were a far better side than us, time to accept the facts.

thats exactly the case. all this screaming for yogi etc etc is getting boring.

contrary to what people say we do have good players to be competitive in scotland,unfortunately not in europe for now

[IWasThere2016]

FAO WOW62 so if we lose again to the Accies, and Saintees as badly as last season, do we accept they are better than us and Yogi's the man? Or will you be 'bored' with calls for Yogi to go? I haven't checked but is that 2 wins in 20 competitive games? That is dreadful .. We know it, he knows it and the Board know it.

[Badge]

I think you just need to look at the comments from the Maribor players and manager in today's papers. They obviously got a big lift from the fact that our "two best players were left out". I think Yogi got it wrong on Thursday but he has a chance to put things right next week. Lets hope we can get an early goal and see how they react.

[deeks01]

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Sorry to spoil the hate party girls but Yogi didn't get it wrong last night.

The yams are deluded but so are we. What did you think would have happened if Stokes and Riordan had started last night. I mean really think about it. What would have happened?

That's right.

Now that piece of propaganda is out of the way, let's deal with uncomfortable fact number 2. The yams are only slightly more deluded than us.

Last night, we aimed to keep the ball off Maribor, let them chase it, knacker them out and then put the attackers on later in the game. How does Murray and Wotherspoon falling on their ***** and costing us goals constitute poor tactics?

Hibs were told to keep the ball and move it forward. Instead we moved it backwards to players who weren't comfortable moving it around. When we did move it forward we gave it away. That's what you get for having Rankin in your side (The worst culprit).

The main board constant witch hunt for every manager we've ever had in the internet age is boring and makes us look like the ***** that we are. That said, I do realise that there were a number of yams on last night egging us on with posting the whole Yogi = clown thing. The problem is, we've fallen for it.

No-one here seems to know much about football from a tactical perspective, yet somehow become qualified to talk about tactics as if they have their UEFA badges.

Yogi gets slated for trying to play Barcaball because 'we don't have the players' but we then expect Brazilian style flair football (as if all of a sudden, we've got the players for that ) and anything else, be it Yogi, Mixu or Collins in charge has been 'eye-bleeding'

Someone last night posted 'who the .... are Maribor anyway?' showing our true ignorance and arrogance. The question should be 'Who the .... are Hibs?' Oh that's right, we won three league titles 50+ years ago WHOOPIE DOOOO.

Time to wake up...really it's time.

quite possibly the best post I've read in my , admittedly short , career on .net , well said that man!

[basehibby]

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Sorry to spoil the hate party girls but Yogi didn't get it wrong last night.

The yams are deluded but so are we. What did you think would have happened if Stokes and Riordan had started last night. I mean really think about it. What would have happened?

That's right.

Now that piece of propaganda is out of the way, let's deal with uncomfortable fact number 2. The yams are only slightly more deluded than us.

Last night, we aimed to keep the ball off Maribor, let them chase it, knacker them out and then put the attackers on later in the game. How does Murray and Wotherspoon falling on their ***** and costing us goals constitute poor tactics?

Hibs were told to keep the ball and move it forward. Instead we moved it backwards to players who weren't comfortable moving it around. When we did move it forward we gave it away. That's what you get for having Rankin in your side (The worst culprit).

The main board constant witch hunt for every manager we've ever had in the internet age is boring and makes us look like the ***** that we are. That said, I do realise that there were a number of yams on last night egging us on with posting the whole Yogi = clown thing. The problem is, we've fallen for it.

No-one here seems to know much about football from a tactical perspective, yet somehow become qualified to talk about tactics as if they have their UEFA badges.

Yogi gets slated for trying to play Barcaball because 'we don't have the players' but we then expect Brazilian style flair football (as if all of a sudden, we've got the players for that ) and anything else, be it Yogi, Mixu or Collins in charge has been 'eye-bleeding'

Someone last night posted 'who the .... are Maribor anyway?' showing our true ignorance and arrogance. The question should be 'Who the .... are Hibs?' Oh that's right, we won three league titles 50+ years ago WHOOPIE DOOOO.

Time to wake up...really it's time.

Some of the faint hearted pish that gets posted on here makes me ashamed to be a Hibby. I'm under no illusions that Yogi is the perfect manager, but he's done enough to deserve more patience from us rather than behaving like a mob of village idiots with pitch forks at the ready at the first sign of trouble

[Spike Mandela]

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Some of the faint hearted pish that gets posted on here makes me ashamed to be a Hibby. I'm under no illusions that Yogi is the perfect manager, but he's done enough to deserve more patience from us rather than behaving like a mob of village idiots with pitch forks at the ready at the first sign of trouble

Have you not attended a game in the whole of 2010

[Hibs On Tour]

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The only way we will ever get better as a club and start to regularly challenge in the Cups and league is to continually push for better and if that means change on a regular basis then so what?

"change on a regular basis" will guarantee us 1 thing and 1 thing only. That we go backwards. Contender for the most ludicrous posting this year IMO.

[Dr Jimmy]

typical happy clapper picks a few words and applies them to the whole post. I suppose you are happy with the last 20 games? if change is needed on a regular basis to move forward I would rather that than accept mediocrity. but hey ho all is well because we have a manager regardless of how bad...unbelievable !!

[marinello59]

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typical happy clapper picks a few words and applies them to the whole post. I suppose you are happy with the last 20 games? if change is needed on a regular basis to move forward I would rather that than accept mediocrity. but hey ho all is well because we have a manager regardless of how bad...unbelievable !!

What on earth is a typical happy clapper? The tendency to sneeringly dismiss anybody who tries to adopt a positive note as a 'happy clapper ' is one of the least attractive things about this site. (And I feel the same about the use of the 'doom and gloomer' term) Most of us are probably happy about some things and less than happy about others. The attempt by some to break us down in to two distinct camps is thoroughly depressing.

[Spike Mandela]

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What on earth is a typical happy clapper? The tendency to sneeringly dismiss anybody who tries to adopt a positive note as a 'happy clapper ' is one of the least attractive things about this site. (And I feel the same about the use of the 'doom and gloomer' term) Most of us are probably happy about some things and less than happy about others. The attempt by some to break us down in to two distinct camps is thoroughly depressing.

You're such a doom and gloomer

[Velma Dinkley]

Stop being such a doom and gloomer

[Dr Jimmy]

that's my opinion and now I know yours, keep clapping happy ;-)

[erskine-hibby]

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Great post - agree with everything you have written above
I have written re the underlined part in many posts and your words sum upmy feelings exactly.
O K people are entitled to opinions ,that is part of the life of a forum such as this but we seem to have a hard core of out of work/failed football club managers who go OTT.
Many appear desperate to manage Hibs based on experience gained organising a bairns casual kick about on the "Links".
Management is not easy no matter what the organisation is that you work for , it is almost a "lose , lose" situation
Football management is no different the international caps, coaching certificates etc the man has .
There are so many uncntrollable facets due to the hidden agendas which prevail .
The late Jo Mercer was spot on when he said about football managers "YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST RESULT !!!"
Well done "speedway" says it all IMO

Agreed, and the last result was cr@p....infact, the last run of results from about Feb were cr@p. How cr@p does it have to get before we need to have a rethink??????????

[vahibbie]

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What on earth is a typical happy clapper? The tendency to sneeringly dismiss anybody who tries to adopt a positive note as a 'happy clapper ' is one of the least attractive things about this site. (And I feel the same about the use of the 'doom and gloomer' term) Most of us are probably happy about some things and less than happy about others. The attempt by some to break us down in to two distinct camps is thoroughly depressing.

But that's exactly what the OP has, possibly unwittingly, done.
There is a great divide at the moment between the support, and no matter what Speedway calls us we are ALL Hibs supporters. There is no doubt that Maribor were/are a decent team but I don't think it's unreasonable for me as a Hibs supporter to think that we should be able to get a result against then. They after all are no European giants.
I think some of us are willing to settle for second best...actually less than second best, cos I'd settle for that
Yogi can go on all day about how he'd like to play the game but stroking the ball around in your own half with no pressure being applied is no really that hard. If we can't actually make any forward progress it's all a waste of time. Stokes and Deeks score goals and are more likely to get something from scraps than Nish, so all in all a bad move by the manager.
To say some poster on here act as if we have UEFA badges is a bit strong. I'm sure quite a few on here have done some coaching and have some sort of licence but more to the point most of us do know quite a bit about the game and have watched hundreds of them. Something has to have rubbed of FFS.
I like Yogi but at the moment he talks a much better game than he's providing and whatever camp you are in on here it has to improve.

[jdships]

[QUOTE=marinello59;2530411]What on earth is a typical happy clapper? The tendency to sneeringly dismiss anybody who tries to adopt a positive note as a 'happy clapper ' is one of the least attractive things about this site. (And I feel the same about the use of the 'doom and gloomer' term) Most of us are probably happy about some things and less than happy about others. The attempt by some to break us down in to two distinct camps is thoroughly depressing.[/Q- especiallUOTE]

Agree with what you write - especially the highlighted part.
People have the right to voice opinions , that's what forums are for , but as you say "what are "happy clapper's/ doom and gloomer's "?
I also despair of the "keyboard manager's" who probably couldn't manage their own affairs !

[persevere1875]

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My biggest criticisms of last night's tactics are that we don't have a forward with the pace to play up front in a 4-5-1 so the formation is wrong and Yogi played Wotherspoon, a right sided player, on the left.

Could someone explain to me why these are not valid criticisms of Yogi's tactics last night?

I'm not one of those calling for Yogi's head although the "brownie points" he built up in the first part of 09/10 were back at zero for the start of this season. We'll need to be fairly comfortably in the top 6 by the New Year or he'll rightly be under pressure.

No offence mate but Ive seen it all now, since when did pace have a factor in playing 4-5-1, He's there to hold the ball not show us his hundred metre dash, now to be fair, he was s**t at it but I think you've explained yourself why these are not valid criticisms

[renato]

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There was no doubt Maribor were a better team than us. They skelped us 3 nil and that showed.

There is no doubt we had a gameplan and there is also no doubt some mistakes, caused us dearly.

Equally, there is no doubt the team was picked by the manager and tactics employed by the manager.

To answer the question and cover the point; what difference would our top goal scorers have made? Hmm - let's see - Stokes has been known to score the odd goal here or there. Deeks has been known to set-up as many as he scores, firing dead balls to places he shouldn't be abel too yet somehow does and putting in crosses, corners and passes to get things moving.

What they WOULD have done, had they played well and I accept this might not have been the case from 0-0, in the pissign rain...but assuming they done what they were capable off, they might just have done what they've done so many times before - set-up and scored a goal.

Even one away goal and lets say we did lose 3...that away goal is worth more than the single digit it racks up when it gets close.

There we have it. The party line I might now tow but **** it; I watched OUR team get scudded last night for too long with no changes made. No tactical changes made. Nothing done about the relentless pass backs to Stack. Nothing done about our lack of BALLS in shooting. Nothing done til it was too late.

The perspective is the same today as it was last night and its not going to change. The plan was ***** and we paid for it. Sitting in, rarely works. It doesnt work for the best of teams with good solid forward lines, midfield and defence. We are NOT (as someone rightly points out) the best of teams. We have no *****g right to hammer that team last night but equally, we should have been able to give a far better account of ourselves than we did.

THAT, was the point many are making now. Yes, some comments were OTT but FFS, skelped 3-0 going on 30-0.

Pish. Not good enough and on the official site today, Hughes turns round and says he couldnt ask for any more. Nope. He is right. He couldnae. WE CAN tho.

Nail on the head. No one in their right mind wants Yogi or the team to fail, however surely we have to expect better than we've had over the course of 2010. Some of the most embarrasing results and worst run in our recent history, I think we've got every right to expect the team to be making forward steps and, to be frank, it shouldn't be that hard given how poor we've been and the budget Yogi has available in comparison to his peers.

Desparately want him to succeed but surely it's clear that Yogi has not yet got the team playing to their potential and that he certainly hasn't covered himself in glory tactically (compared to his peer group who have out-thought him often, and sometimes spectacularly).