League Winners without the OF

[LHWM]

I got asked the question on JKB and think you might be interested

1891-Dumbarton-1 26 pts
1892-Dumbarton-1 31 pts
1893-St Mirren-1 18 pts
1894-Heart Of Midlothian-1 Joint 20 pts
1894-St Bernards-1 Joint 20 pts
1895-Heart Of Midlothian-1 24 pts
1896-Hibernian-1 21 pts
1897-Heart Of Midlothian-1 25 pts
1898-Hibernian-1 22 pts
1899-Heart Of Midlothian-1 25 pts
1900-Hibernian-1 23 pts
1901-Hibernian-1 22 pts
1902-Heart Of Midlothian-1 Joint 19 pts
1902-St Mirren-1 Joint 19 pts
1903-Hibernian-1 30 pts
1904-Third Lanark-1 37 pts
1905-Third Lanark-1 33 pts
1906-Heart Of Midlothian-1 39 pts
1907-Dundee-1 43 pts
1908-Falkirk-1 48 pts
1909-Dundee-1 46 pts
1910-Falkirk-1 46 pts
1911-Aberdeen-1 41 pts
1912-Partick Thistle-1 Joint 39 pts
1912-Clyde-1 Joint 39 pts
1913-Airdrieonians-1 38 pts
1914-Morton-1 54 pts
1915-Heart Of Midlothian-1 56 pts
1916-Morton-1 48 pts
1917-Morton-1 49 pts
1918-Kilmarnock-1 Joint 41 pts
1918-Morton-1 Joint 41 pts

1919-Morton-1 1920 43 pts
1920-Motherwell-1 1921 53 pts
1921-Dundee-1 Joint 49 pts
1921-Heart Of Midlothian-1 Joint 49 pts
1922-Raith Rovers-1 1922 48 pts
1923-Airdrieonians-1 1923 45 pts
1924-Airdrieonians-1 1924 45 pts
1925-Airdrieonians-1 1925 51 pts
1926-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1926 47 pts
1927-Motherwell-1 1927 51 pts
1928-Motherwell-1 1928 48 pts
1929-Motherwell-1 1929 48 pts
1930-Motherwell-1 1930 51 pts
1931-Motherwell-1 1931 52 pts
1932-Motherwell-1 1932 61 pts
1933-Motherwell-1 1933 56 pts
1934-Motherwell-1 1934 59 pts
1935-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1935 47 pts
1936-Aberdeen-1 1936 55 pts
1937-Aberdeen-1 1937 51 pts
1938-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1938 54 pts

1939-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1939 43 pts
1940-Falkirk-1 1940 45 pts
1941-Clyde-1 1941 41 pts
1942-Hibernian-1 1942 36 pts
1943-Morton-1 1943 40 pts
1944-Hibernian-1 1944 36 pts
1945-Motherwell-1 1945 37 pts

1946-Hibernian-1 1946 35 pts
1947-Hibernian-1 1947 39 pts
1948-Hibernian-1 1948 43 pts
1949-Dundee-1 1949 38 pts
1950-Hibernian-1 1950 43 pts
1951-Hibernian-1 1951 41 pts
1952-Hibernian-1 1952 40 pts
1953-Hibernian-1 1953 37 pts
1954-Partick Thistle-1 1954 35 pts
1955-Aberdeen-1 1955 47 pts
1956-Hibernian-1 Goal Avg 42 pts
1956-Aberdeen-2 Goal Avg 42 pts
1957-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1957 50 pts
1958-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1958 54 pts
1959-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1959 45 pts
1960-Kilmarnock-1 1960 47 pts
1961-Kilmarnock-1 1961 45 pts
1962-Dundee-1 1962 49 pts
1963-Partick Thistle-1 1963 44 pts
1964-Kilmarnock-1 1964 46 pts
1965-Kilmarnock-1 1965 46 pts
1966-Kilmarnock-1 1966 44 pts
1967-Clyde-1 1967 45 pts
1968-Hibernian-1 1968 45 pts
1969-Dunfermline Athletic-1 1969 44 pts
1970-Hibernian-1 1970 39 pts
1971-Aberdeen-1 1971 48 pts
1972-Aberdeen-1 1972 45 pts
1973-Hibernian-1 1973 44 pts
1974-Hibernian-1 1974 46 pts

1975-Hibernian-1 1975 44 pts
1976-Hibernian-1 1976 37 pts
1977-Dundee United-1 1977 36 pts
1978-Aberdeen-1 1978 42 pts
1979-Dundee United-1 1979 36 pts
1980-Aberdeen-1 1980 36 pts
1981-Dundee United-1 Goal Diff 39 pts
1981-Aberdeen-2 Goal Diff 39 pts
1982-Aberdeen-1 1982 44 pts
1983-Dundee United-1 1983 47 pts
1984-Aberdeen-1 1984 46 pts
1985-Aberdeen-1 1985 49 pts
1986-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1986 39 pts
1987-Dundee United-1 1987 53 pts
1988-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1988 54 pts
1989-Aberdeen-1 1989 41 pts
1990-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1990 40 pts
1991-Aberdeen-1 1991 43 pts
1992-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1992 56 pts
1993-Aberdeen-1 1993 59 pts
1994-Aberdeen-1 1994 46 pts
1995-Hibernian-1 1995 46 pts
1996-Aberdeen-1 1996 54 pts
1997-Dundee United-1 1997 51 pts

1998-Heart Of Midlothian-1 1998 64 pts
1999-Kilmarnock-1 1999 50 pts
2000-Heart Of Midlothian-1 2000 48 pts
2001-Hibernian-1 2001 60 pts
2002-Livingston-1 2002 53 pts
2003-Heart Of Midlothian-1 2003 60 pts
2004-Heart Of Midlothian-1 2004 62 pts
2005-Hibernian-1 Goal Diff 57 pts
2005-Aberdeen-2 Goal Diff 57 pts
2006-Heart Of Midlothian-1 2007 66 pts
2007-Aberdeen-1 2008 62 pts
2008-Motherwell-1 2009 55 pts
2009-Heart of Midlothian-1 2010 52 pts
2010-Dundee United-1 2011 58 pts

Overall

Aberdeen lose out 3 times on Goal Average and or Goal Difference

Hearts are just 1 'win' in front of Hibs at the 'top'.

Heart Of Midlothian 25
Hibernian 24
Aberdeen 17
Motherwell 11
Dundee United 7
Kilmarnock 7
Morton 6
Dundee 5
Airdrieonians 4
Clyde 3
Partick Thistle 3
Falkirk 3
Dumbarton 2
St Mirren 2
Third Lanark 2
St Bernards 1
Raith Rovers 1
Livingston 1
Dunfermline Athletic 1

[Sandy]

Cheers LHWM, good reading as always. I am surprised that Aberdeen are seven adrift of us and 8 adrift of Hearts in that table.

[LHWM]

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Cheers LHWM, good reading as always. I am surprised that Aberdeen are seven adrift of us and 8 adrift of Hearts in that table.

Aberdeen had a 'purple patch' under Ferguson but in general haven't done much since or before. One of either of Hibs and/or Hearts have been there or thereabouts for most of Scottish Football History.

[Long suffering]

intersting stuff

[LHWM]

If you base the table on all games including the 'Old Firm' games but excluding the OF from the final table the results are markedly different.

NB doesn't include taking out 'ties' at the top.

Heart Of Midlothian 30
Aberdeen 23
Hibernian 22
Motherwell 12
Morton 6
Kilmarnock 6
Airdrieonians 5
Dundee United 5
Dundee 4
Falkirk 3
Clyde 3
Third Lanark 2
Dumbarton 2
St Mirren 1
St Johnstone 1
Raith Rovers 1
Dunfermline Athletic 1
Livingston 1

[dangermouse]

Proof, if it were ever needed, that the OF should GTF

[LHWM]

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Proof, if it were ever needed, that the OF should GTF

Since the SPL was formed there would have been 7 different winners.

[Phil D. Rolls]

Interesting reading as usual LWHM, thanks!

So it looks like, after the Old Firm, the older firm are the big two in Scotland. How long till the rest tell us to GTF?

[Hibs On Tour]

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If you base the table on all games including the 'Old Firm' games but excluding the OF from the final table the results are markedly different.

NB doesn't include taking out 'ties' at the top.

Heart Of Midlothian 30
Aberdeen 23
Hibernian 22
Motherwell 12
Morton 6
Kilmarnock 6
Airdrieonians 5
Dundee United 5
Dundee 4
Falkirk 3
Clyde 3
Third Lanark 2
Dumbarton 2
St Mirren 1
St Johnstone 1
Raith Rovers 1
Dunfermline Athletic 1
Livingston 1

Which, unless I'm reading it wrong, means that both Aberdeen and Hearts have a better record throughout against the OF than us?

[LHWM]

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Which, unless I'm reading it wrong, means that both Aberdeen and Hearts have a better record throughout against the OF than us?

No. The first set is what would the league positions be if you excluded ALL old firm results ie just games played amongst non old firm teams

The second set includes results versus the old firm but exludes the old firm from the final table. So essentially it is the number of times a team was runners up behind 1 of the old firm or third behind both of them.

Of course it is all nonsense in that if the old firm disappeared one of the remaining Glasgow clubs would have been more succesful.

It does give a glimpse though in what things might have been like without the Old Firm.

In terms of all games versus the old firm IIRC

Hibs have the best record vs Rangers

And Hearts the best vs Celtic

I'll do a check when I have access to my PC.

[rainman]

Interesting that up until the late 70's, teams were putting together 3,4,5 good seasons on the bounce. After that, you only got 1 or 2 seasons together by one team.

Maybe harder to keep hold of your players these days?

[dangermouse]

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Interesting that up until the late 70's, teams were putting together 3,4,5 good seasons on the bounce. After that, you only got 1 or 2 seasons together by one team.

Maybe harder to keep hold of your players these days?

Remember it was only 2 points for a win and 2 games against each side of the OF rather than 8.

3 points for a win and the current SPL set up just make it easer (sorry guarantee) that the OF dominate the league.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Also interesting, and a bit surpirsing to see that Hibs have won more than Hearts since the war (what could generally be called the 'modern' era?).

I suppose we would also have won a Scottish cup or two...