We are not fit enough - disgrace again.

[The Voice Of Reason]

The team always appear to run out of steam nowadays. I don't think we are fit enough (or fast enough, for that matter).

It's all very well them playing "tippy tappy" 2 touch football at the Training Academy........get them down to Gullane Sand Dunes for a wee change (and a kick up the erse).

4-1 and 6-2 up......and we end up being lucky to draw the game.

Well done Hibs, you have achieved almost the impossible....losing a 6-2 lead.

P.S Sorry, but the goalie is yet another dud. Where do we get them from ?!?!? I can only assume that we go directly to Billy Smart's Circus for them. Yeah he saved the pen....but he gave it away in the first place FFS!

P.P.S We are the laughing stock of british football again. Dear dear dear.

[Thief]

The tactics, strange substitutions and loss of confidence are all factors, but I agree, the so obvious lack of fitness is the biggest problem.

Not only does it multiply the other problems, the fact that its obviously common knowledge to all other teams, positively encourages them to have a right go at us, especially in the last 20 minutes, even when all seems lost. Isn't that right Craig?

So does anyone know what the hell we do at the academy?

[The Voice Of Reason]

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The tactics, strange substitutions and loss of confidence are all factors, but I agree, the so obvious lack of fitness is the biggest problem.

Not only does it multiply the other problems, the fact that its obviously common knowledge to all other teams, positively encourages them to have a right go at us, especially in the last 20 minutes, even when all seems lost. Isn't that right Craig?

So does anyone know what the hell we do at the academy?:bitchy:

Play tippy tappy 2 touch football amongst other "nicey nicey" things.

We are unfit and seriously lack pace. Something is massively wrong !

[Hibby70]

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So does anyone know what the hell we do at the academy?

About an hour and 20 minutes.

[Brooster]

Believe me, it is scary what we do (or dont do) at the academy.

[noseyhibby]

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The tactics, strange substitutions and loss of confidence are all factors, but I agree, the so obvious lack of fitness is the biggest problem.

Not only does it multiply the other problems, the fact that its obviously common knowledge to all other teams, positively encourages them to have a right go at us, especially in the last 20 minutes, even when all seems lost. Isn't that right Craig?

So does anyone know what the hell we do at the academy?

A question I ask time and again

[500miles]

Are there qualified coaches in here with knowledge of the effects of prolonged periods of high intensity fitness training?

[Big Frank]

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Believe me, it is scary what we do (or dont do) at the academy.

Could you elborate?

This is a serious issue for Hibernian imo. The level of fitness is frankly disgusting.

Hibernian fans deserve much more than the pish being served up.

I genuinely want to know what the crack is at east mains.

What is the general script?

[noseyhibby]

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Could you elborate?

This is a serious issue for Hibernian imo. The level of fitness is frankly disgusting.

Hibernian fans deserve much more than the pish being served up.

I genuinely want to know what the crack is at east mains.

What is the general script?

They have a right good time at East mains according to Yogi...nothing to do with football or getting fit, but a right good time anyway

[Hainan Hibs]

I'd ship them out to Russia and get some of this training on the go

YouTube - Training Montage - Rocky IV

[joebakerforever]

When JC brought in a strict regime and used the French fitness coach (Roger Propos) we kept going for the full game.

However it appears it was too much for most of the senior players then to tolerate and they eventually got their way and with JC not being supported by Petrie, and the rest as they say, is history.

Both Mixu & now Yogi have bottled it in the fitness stakes and East Mains will remain a waste of money, until the Management put in place real training.

Until the stamina levels are built up, we can expect the second half collapses that have become standard fare after January.

Just imagine what cracking players the likes of Stokes & Riordan could be if they were fully fit and concentrated on the fitba, rather than after-match socialising.

[McD]

I'm sure I read somewhere a few weeks back Hughes saying he'd cut training to an hour a day! A ****ing hour a day???!!!!

Theres folk who work 40odd hours a week, and managed to do more than 5 hours a week training with their pub league side FFS!

We were fitter when we were training out a minibus round public parks here there and everywhere.

Hughes has got the same idea of fitness as sodding Mixu - ie, let them do what they want or they'll go running to uncle rod!

Even montha ago during the good run, he was saying that after the (couple of hours?) training, the players used to stay back and watch tv and play games consoles - perhaps they should be taking a leaf from some of the top-end players who continue to work on their game in the afternoons.

Manager who is massively out his depth, players who wouldn't know professionalism is their lives depended on it.

[Hainan Hibs]

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When JC brought in a strict regime and used the French fitness coach (Roger Propos) we kept going for the full game.

However it appears it was too much for most of the senior players then to tolerate and they eventually got their way and with JC not being supported by Petrie, and the rest as they say, is history.

Both Mixu & now Yogi have bottled it in the fitness stakes and East Mains will remain a waste of money, until the Management put in place real training.

Until the stamina levels are built up, we can expect the second half collapses that have become standard fare after January.

Just imagine what cracking players the likes of Stokes & Riordan could be if they were fully fit and concentrated on the fitba, rather than after-match socialising.

JC's teams would still be going strong 90+ minutes in.

Now we are grinding to a halt after 1 half.

But hey, as long as the training is a great piss about and banter is to be had on George Street, who cares

[500miles]

Look at our performances earlier in the season, look at the interviews about what the boys are doing in training. They were not unfit.

What can happen, if we are training too heavily, and expending more energy than we can recover before training again, is that we actually lose fitness and stregnth. This is why managers are always talking about how long the season is, and why squad rotation is so popular at big clubs. So I'm not buying that he isn't working them hard enough - you just have to look at Yogi himself, and listen to what he has to say about sports science to know that he is a keen fitness enthusiast, and will force such a regime upon his players.

Perhaps he has pushed them too far.

[Toaods]

Fitness was definitely a major factor tonight.

When we started wilting it gave them the encouragement to show more hunger but for me Yogi blew it by removing Riordan.

This immediately gave rise to an all out surge from the well defence as they knew Stokes and Nish didn't have the legs on them. Wotherspoon had dried up too.

Rankin smashing the ball around like a hot tattie rather than holding it didn't help either.

Truth be told, even allowing for the stupid penalty, we were lucky to get out with the point.

[McD]

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Fitness was definitely a major factor tonight.

When we started wilting it gave them the encouragement to show more hunger but for me Yogi blew it by removing Riordan.

This immediately gave rise to an all out surge from the well defence as they knew Stokes and Nish didn't have the legs on them. Wotherspoon had dried up too.

Rankin smashing the ball around like a hot tattie rather than holding it didn't help either.

Truth be told, even allowing for the stupid penalty, we were lucky to get out with the point.

Totally agree mate, the change in flow whe riodan went off was blindingly obvious to everyone except hughes.

They had nothing to lose by having a go back, and we did nothing but encourage them, didn't challenge for second balls, didn't keep possession.

Players have a lot to answer for, hogg, murray, miller and such like are supposed to be solid, seasoned pro's who should have taken the game and team by the scruff of the neck and driven us towards victory. However Hughes is as much to blame for not demanding that they do that.

[The Harp]

Could it be the reason for the poor level of fitness is that the players are so busy admiring the facilities at East Mains that they totally forget to do any work?

[northseahibby]

Said it before....will say it again........they all need shooting with a ball of their own ****.....

[Haymaker]

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Are there qualified coaches in here with knowledge of the effects of prolonged periods of high intensity fitness training?

Yes, as someone who is studying the game from all aspects while plodding through my UEFA licences, I feel I can answer this (in fact i should be writing an essay on it right now...)

It is a very fine line between peak fitness and unfit or over training and it is a very difficult balance with many factors fighting against you.

Firstly, is the training sport specific? There is no point the boys doing an hour of running at a continuing pace with some star jumps and all that bollocks as that wont work. The whole training session should be about the fitness of a game as well as the tactical, keeping the players moving in footballing ways. During pre-season training should be physically hard to get you up to speed for a game and as the season starts training should become about general football fitness, I know most EPL sides this time of year are on sessions of "keep ball", 7 v 3, football specific, keeps the fitness up for what is needed. This can of course be accomodated with extra sessions for players who may be returning from long term injury or currently out of the first team picture. It is quite complicated as I have said and IMHO needs a dedicated fitness team to run and inform the manager.

Secondly, what are the players doing after training? I have this problem with alot of the youth players (15-18 y.o leaving academies), I can train them to be fit however if they go home and spend the evening eating pizza, drinking beer and being in active, you wont get peak physical performance. One of the coaches I work with is a former Everton academy player (who happens to be friends with a Hibernian football player actually) who squarely lays the reason he coaches and not plays is because at 15 he had "made it" and took up smoking and didnt try hard enough in training. One of my associates at the FA Skills academy says similar having partnered Gareth Barry in midfield when they were young.

Leading to the third, what are players doing after a game? 90minutes of top level football is a very harsh process on the body and a quick shower and off home isnt the best way to recover. IIRC Manchester United and Middlesbourgh (Boro have since stopped as they released alot of their staff due to costs) were doing tests after games to see how dehydrated and how their blood chemistry was looking (sugar levels etc) and the medical/fitness teams were designing 24 hour eating and drinking timetables for the players to see if they could recover quicker, however I cannot find any released data yet... I also remember an interview with John Collins when he still played about how at Monaco they would be in a hotel thursday to monday so the staff could keep an eye on them... Of course this all costs HUGE amounts of money.

Money is the big factor however.

I would love to know if Hibernian use Pro-zone at home games as well? For a mere £90,000 and the salary for someone who knows how to use and intrepret the data received (I can if anyone from hibs is reading this...) can be a massive benefit to training and signing of new players too.

[Dr_Regal]

Any chance of getting a gym at east mains for Hanlon, a weaker centre half I've not seen.

[The_Horde]

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Any chance of getting a gym at east mains for Hanlon, a weaker centre half I've not seen.

Hogg?

[Tollhouse Hibee]

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Any chance of getting a gym at east mains for Hanlon, a weaker centre half I've not seen.

be fair he has not trained for 3 weeks and we are playing him 3 times in a week. manager to blame there!

[Baldy Foghorn]

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So does anyone know what the hell we do at the academy?

Play pool and nintendo......

[RIP]

Sorry to be a cracked record but I'm so pleased to see this thread appear. This situation has been tolerated at Hibs for the past seven years or more with the employers turning a blind eye and passing the buck to the football coach. It's time as fans we started to look a bit deeper than the continual manager merry-go-round.

The past 4 managers have inherited the same underlying problems at Hibs, and none have been successful in turning the situation around. I believe there's been occasional support from Rod and the Board - but they appear out of their depth when it comes to dealing with their employees

Squad churns, new players, different tactics mean **** all if you are faced with player power, working 'days' of a couple of hours duration, lifestyle issues and a lack of basic fitness and application.

That's the situation that Mowbray, Collins, Mixu and Yogi faced when they came to the club. It took every one by surprise and they have all gone public about these challenges and their attempts to change the 'culture' they were confronted with. Most walked away with the job started but nowhere near finished

At the end of the day, a Hibs manager is just another lowly paid temp - in one season, oot the next. They are transitional figures, without the power and influence to carry out the cultural revolution required to turn the business around on the field of play. If they do face the players head on, they either revolt or won't make it work on a Saturday. The manager gets ditched and it's back to the comfort zone for the players. Ask Collins, Le Guen or Mowbray - how successful were they in trying to change working culture in the SPL

Since 2004 the primary focus of Hibernian has been the appointment of 3 accountants to senior positions on the board. Non football men under a non-football owner. They have secured the business in an impressive way. In doing so I think we have lost the true focus of the club - the football team.

Now football ambitions need to take precedence with the appointment of a football director. The culture and focus needs to change to one of ambition and excellence in everything we do. Offer this post to John Collins. Ask him to carry out a fundamental review of player contracts.

New working weeks, diets, fitness, lifestyle coaching. Support the football coach 100% on a daily basis. Build a long-term football development strategy.

Shape up or ship out, regardless of who you are

[down the slope]

How was it that Motherwell had no fitness issues ?, they were all over us which we just could not match later in the game, The last time we were fit was when Collins was in charge, remember the semi at Tynie when we lasted well into extra time ?, i doubt this team could come anywhere near those levels.

[euro Hibby]

Mentioned this a while ago in a post. Players peak at certain times of the year and by all accounts we are huffying and puffing before the other teams which probably is a fitness issue or fear factor which drains the adrenalin ..

[sahib]

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JC's teams would still be going strong 90+ minutes in.Now we are grinding to a halt after 1 half.

But hey, as long as the training is a great piss about and banter is to be had on George Street, who cares

Mythical golden era alert!

[Hainan Hibs]

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Mythical golden era alert!

It was a lot fitter than the current team but then, spending my free days sat on my arse watching the crap on ITV2, I'd still fancy myself odds on favourite in a fitness test against the current team.

[GloryGlory]

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Sorry to be a cracked record but I'm so pleased to see this thread appear. This situation has been tolerated at Hibs for the past seven years or more with the employers turning a blind eye and passing the buck to the football coach. It's time as fans we started to look a bit deeper than the continual manager merry-go-round.

The past 4 managers have inherited the same underlying problems at Hibs, and none have been successful in turning the situation around. I believe there's been occasional support from Rod and the Board - but they appear out of their depth when it comes to dealing with their employees

Squad churns, new players, different tactics mean **** all if you are faced with player power, working 'days' of a couple of hours duration, lifestyle issues and a lack of basic fitness and application.

That's the situation that Mowbray, Collins, Mixu and Yogi faced when they came to the club. It took every one by surprise and they have all gone public about these challenges and their attempts to change the 'culture' they were confronted with. Most walked away with the job started but nowhere near finished

At the end of the day, a Hibs manager is just another lowly paid temp - in one season, oot the next. They are transitional figures, without the power and influence to carry out the cultural revolution required to turn the business around on the field of play. If they do face the players head on, they either revolt or won't make it work on a Saturday. The manager gets ditched and it's back to the comfort zone for the players. Ask Collins, Le Guen or Mowbray - how successful were they in trying to change working culture in the SPL

Since 2004 the primary focus of Hibernian has been the appointment of 3 accountants to senior positions on the board. Non football men under a non-football owner. They have secured the business in an impressive way. In doing so I think we have lost the true focus of the club - the football team.

Now football ambitions need to take precedence with the appointment of a football director. The culture and focus needs to change to one of ambition and excellence in everything we do. Offer this post to John Collins. Ask him to carry out a fundamental review of player contracts.

New working weeks, diets, fitness, lifestyle coaching. Support the football coach 100% on a daily basis. Build a long-term football development strategy.

Shape up or ship out, regardless of who you are

I agree with much of this analysis. I remember one of the complaints against Collins was that training was "boring". I also remember that Collins in one of his early interviews told how he used to practice skills over and over as a player until he got it right. Now by the time players make the first team, one would hope they could do the basics like trap the ball (hopefully with either foot), measure a pass, and other basic technical skills, as well as have some measure of tactical awareness. I believe that Collins rightly identified the defects that certain players had in this respect and made them practice what they already should have been able to do, over and over. This is why they were "bored" at training.

Last night, I noticed that we still have players all over the pitch who are scared of the ball in possession and cannot control it and shield it - it's as if they think they are playing ping-pong or bagatelle, not football. Also their tactical awareness is poor, unable to make space for themselves (how bad are we at set pieces, throw ins) and unable to read the runs of the opposition and close space to them.

I think Collins strength as a coach may not lie in dealing with the "old lags", who have been brought up to do the minimum necessary to get by at a club like Hibs. I think it will take a couple of generations of youth players coming through to change the culture and mindset and instill the appropriate focus and discipline for professional athletes who truly want to maximise their talent. Collins, IMO, would be an excellent director of youth development, if he were given free rein and the investment to develop the young players in line with the template (suitably adapted for our game) he learned in France.

BTW, on the issue of fitness, I dread next sason when our pitch will be much wider and our players will have that much more space to cover and run around in!

[The Voice Of Reason]

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Sorry to be a cracked record but I'm so pleased to see this thread appear. This situation has been tolerated at Hibs for the past seven years or more with the employers turning a blind eye and passing the buck to the football coach. It's time as fans we started to look a bit deeper than the continual manager merry-go-round.

The past 4 managers have inherited the same underlying problems at Hibs, and none have been successful in turning the situation around. I believe there's been occasional support from Rod and the Board - but they appear out of their depth when it comes to dealing with their employees

Squad churns, new players, different tactics mean **** all if you are faced with player power, working 'days' of a couple of hours duration, lifestyle issues and a lack of basic fitness and application.

That's the situation that Mowbray, Collins, Mixu and Yogi faced when they came to the club. It took every one by surprise and they have all gone public about these challenges and their attempts to change the 'culture' they were confronted with. Most walked away with the job started but nowhere near finished

At the end of the day, a Hibs manager is just another lowly paid temp - in one season, oot the next. They are transitional figures, without the power and influence to carry out the cultural revolution required to turn the business around on the field of play. If they do face the players head on, they either revolt or won't make it work on a Saturday. The manager gets ditched and it's back to the comfort zone for the players. Ask Collins, Le Guen or Mowbray - how successful were they in trying to change working culture in the SPL

Since 2004 the primary focus of Hibernian has been the appointment of 3 accountants to senior positions on the board. Non football men under a non-football owner. They have secured the business in an impressive way. In doing so I think we have lost the true focus of the club - the football team.

Now football ambitions need to take precedence with the appointment of a football director. The culture and focus needs to change to one of ambition and excellence in everything we do. Offer this post to John Collins. Ask him to carry out a fundamental review of player contracts.

New working weeks, diets, fitness, lifestyle coaching. Support the football coach 100% on a daily basis. Build a long-term football development strategy.

Shape up or ship out, regardless of who you are