Time to bring pitches into the 21st century

[noseyhibby]

I have long advocated that football should drag itself out of the 19th, never mind the 20th century, and do away once and for all with grass pitches. Every season since football began games have been reduced to lotteries and/or cancelled because of the insistence on playing on grass.
Technology now allows us to play on all-weather artificial surfaces. Yet there are too many both within and without football who perpetuate the idea that somehow football is better on grass. I wouldn't say it is better, but would say it is different.
Artificial surfaces are conducive to a more technical, skillful and faster football. I believe that the universal introduction of artificial surfaces would lead to a significant increase in the standards of the players and the quality of the product on offer:ending the days of mere "cloggers" and those "pub-teams" who thrive and benefit from seeing their more skillful opponents brought down to their level in wars of attrition on quagmire pitches in the depths of winter.
I also believe that the introduction of artificial surfaces would allow every supporter to be entertained at every game and not just those games during the early and latter part of a season.

[hibee_nation]

If they are now legal i cant understand why Hamilton ripped theirs up when they got promoted. Time for Hibs to lead the way again.

[Jonnyboy]

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I have long advocated that football should drag itself out of the 19th, never mind the 20th century, and do away once and for all with grass pitches. Every season since football began games are reduced to lotteries and cancelled because of the insistence on playing on grass.
Technology now allows us to play on all-weather artificial surfaces. Yet there are too many both within and without football who perpetuate the idea that somehow football is better on grass. I wouldn't say it is better, but would say it is different.
Artificial surfaces are conducive to a more technical, skillful and faster football. I believe that the universal introduction of artificial surfaces would lead to a significant increase in the standards of the players and the quality of the product on offer:ending the days of mere "cloggers" and those "pub-teams" who thrive and benefit from seeing their more skillful opponents brought down to their level in wars of attrition on quagmire pitches in the depths of winter.
I also believe that the introduction of artificial surfaces would allow every supporter to be entertained at every game and not just those games during the early and latter part of a season.

I understand your points and they're well made BUT I feel that there's already been enough dumbing down of physical contact in football and no matter whether these synthetic surfaces were 3G, 4G or any G they would discourage players from tackling and add to the already namby pamby state our game is getting into

[noseyhibby]

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If they are now legal i cant understand why Hamilton ripped theirs up when they got promoted. Time for Hibs to lead the way again.

I agree. Come on the Hibees -end the days of the Tynecastle cloggers getting the better of us with their caveman tactics.

[noseyhibby]

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I understand your points and they're well made BUT I feel that there's already been enough dumbing down of physical contact in football and no matter whether these synthetic surfaces were 3G, 4G or any G they would discourage players from tackling and add to the already namby pamby state our game is getting into

I take your point about the physical aspect, but tackling will still remain: maybe we would see an end to the sliding tackle but players would have to adapt to tackling in a more efficient fashion, as well as develop other aspects of their game in order to compete. For example, chasing back, closing down space, become more tactically competent. Whilst I'm here and talking about the more physical aspects of football: why oh why do referees and football authorities turn a blind eye to the grappling, pushing-away,arms wrapped around another player that now takes place in penalty areas prior to a corner being taken? A player being impeded in this fashion deserves a penalty!

[Jonnyboy]

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I take your point about the physical aspect, but tackling will still remain: maybe we would see an end to the sliding tackle but players would have to adapt to tackling in a more efficient fashion, as well as develop other aspects of their game in order to compete. For example, chasing back, closing down space, become more tactically competent. Whilst I'm here and talking about the more physical aspects of football: why oh why do referees and football authorities turn a blind eye to the grappling, pushing-away,arms wrapped around another player that now takes place in penalty areas prior to a corner being taken? A player being impeded in this fashion deserves a penalty!

I agree and I honestly believe it is worse in Scotland than in many other countries. There's a bit of it in England but if you watch German, Spanish, Italian etc games it barely exists. Mind you, in Scotland if you dare leave the pitch to celebrate a goal with your own fans you get done for it. In many other countries you can see players vault advertising boards, rip off their shirt and almost leap into the gaggle of adoring fans celebrating the goal BUT you rarely see such players getting booked!

[Ryan91]

I do believe that Hibs have looked at the Desso GrassMaster system used in places such as Croke Park and the Emirates Stadium where the pitch is a mix of synthetic and natural grass, and results in a very good playing surface that is almost unaffected by weather like we had this past winter. Only problem I think is cost, not a cheap option, but it would mean that the pitch wouldn't have to be relayed every season. See wikipedia article here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

[noseyhibby]

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I do believe that Hibs have looked at the Desso GrassMaster system used in places such as Croke Park and the Emirates Stadium where the pitch is a mix of synthetic and natural grass, and results in a very good playing surface that is almost unaffected by weather like we had this past winter. Only problem I think is cost, not a cheap option, but it would mean that the pitch wouldn't have to be relayed every season. See wikipedia article here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

Thank you. I wasn't aware of this.

[steviecarnie]

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I do believe that Hibs have looked at the Desso GrassMaster system used in places such as Croke Park and the Emirates Stadium where the pitch is a mix of synthetic and natural grass, and results in a very good playing surface that is almost unaffected by weather like we had this past winter. Only problem I think is cost, not a cheap option, but it would mean that the pitch wouldn't have to be relayed every season. See wikipedia article here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

They werent interested so im lead to believe. I think the artifical pitch could be a good idea, maybe lead to less bookings/sending off for our players from silly tackles.

[monktonharp]

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I do believe that Hibs have looked at the Desso GrassMaster system used in places such as Croke Park and the Emirates Stadium where the pitch is a mix of synthetic and natural grass, and results in a very good playing surface that is almost unaffected by weather like we had this past winter. Only problem I think is cost, not a cheap option, but it would mean that the pitch wouldn't have to be relayed every season. See wikipedia article here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

after seeing the condition of those pitches you mentioned,on tv,I thought why are they in such good nick? Also noticed that old trafford looks great,and when the ball goes over the shy line quickly it runs down a slope. that to me would be a be a better answer,good grass surface on a slightly raised platform to provide better drainage. some parts of ER are marsh like in wet weather.

[1875godsgift]

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after seeing the condition of those pitches you mentioned,on tv,I thought why are they in such good nick? Also noticed that old trafford looks great,and when the ball goes over the shy line quickly it runs down a slope. that to me would be a be a better answer,good grass surface on a slightly raised platform to provide better drainage. some parts of ER are marsh like in wet weather.

Now that would've been a good point to make in the supporter survey I just filled out, in the other comments bit at the end.
Wish I'd read this thread first!

[plhibs]

BMO field in Toronto was built about 4 years ago with a synthetic surface, this week they are laying a new grass surface at a cost of about $3 million.
Players say that artificial fields play havoc with the leg joints, never played on it myself but it seems that there is a push to go back to natural grass.

[Haymaker]

I train/teach association football (and play American football) on the new fully synth pitches, seems fine to me. Only thing I can think of is it may have problems will quick twisting or sliding as the "grass" wont give? I never seem to have any problems (usually because I have already been turned inside out by the opposition forward!)

[Ritchie]

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I understand your points and they're well made BUT I feel that there's already been enough dumbing down of physical contact in football and no matter whether these synthetic surfaces were 3G, 4G or any G they would discourage players from tackling and add to the already namby pamby state our game is getting into

i dont see why this should discourage players to tackle.

we (the beers) play on 3,4 & 5G pitches more than grass pitches now and ive never ever thought twice about slide tackling because of the artificial surface. Its not any sorer than sliding on dry grass.

any professional player who wont tackle incase they get a wee skint knee shouldnt be in that profession IMO.

something needs to change because the standard of football at ER is bad enough without the pitch making it even worse..... these new artificial surfaces or the desso grassmaster are the only way forward.

[Ronaldo9]

Having just played on the artificial surface down at Ainslie Park I would have to disagree, as good as the surface is to play on its wreaks havoc with your joints and can cause all sorts of injuries with muolded studs getting caught on the "sticky" surface.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Instead of diving into all the clubs changing pitches,
we could still consider changing the football season from Mar - Oct, and play on grass.
Just IMHO.

[Franck is God]

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Instead of diving into all the clubs changing pitches,
we could still consider changing the football season from Mar - Oct, and play on grass.
Just IMHO.

I would agree with this and will be thinking it all the way through the game tonight in freezing conditions watching us ruin our pitch again....

We don't have a climate good enough to support winter football to the standard we all want to see. If we don't make the switch to summer football then a serious look at artificial surfaces has to be the next step.

[Pretty Boy]

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I understand your points and they're well made BUT I feel that there's already been enough dumbing down of physical contact in football and no matter whether these synthetic surfaces were 3G, 4G or any G they would discourage players from tackling and add to the already namby pamby state our game is getting into

I don't get why this would be a problem.

I play in goals and regularly train/play on 3G pitches wearing shorts and a short sleeve shirt. I have absolutely no problem diving about on it and rarely have any cuts/burns. Any that i do have are no worse than you would get on a dry pitch in summer. The only problem i have is it makes a horrendous mess of my gloves and i have to change them 7 or 8 times a season now as opposed to 3 or 4 before.

[Andy74]

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I would agree with this and will be thinking it all the way through the game tonight in freezing conditions watching us ruin our pitch again....

We don't have a climate good enough to support winter football to the standard we all want to see. If we don't make the switch to summer football then a serious look at artificial surfaces has to be the next step.

You could remind yourself that it is March 31 and still would be like that if you wanted the season to start around now or earlier.

[Andy74]

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Having just played on the artificial surface down at Ainslie Park I would have to disagree, as good as the surface is to play on its wreaks havoc with your joints and can cause all sorts of injuries with muolded studs getting caught on the "sticky" surface.

How do you know all these things having just played on it? Were there lots of injuries that are attributable to the pitch, and what happened to your joints?

For me the new pitches should be looked at. Football should be played during the winter months but there's no reason we could not ensure the pitches are up to scratch to cope with it.

[sahib]

Grass is the material 21st century material Mr Nosey. It is your ideas that are out of date having their origins in a petrochemical soon to be bygone era. It is formed using energy straight from the sun and fresh air. It renews and repairs itself if treated properly. It is clean green and helps to remove some of the CO2 that you old fashioned, outmoded and generally senile thinkers would have us wiped out by.

[Woody1985]

Summer football played on grass.

Winter football, wind, rain and pitches, IMO are one of the main factors for pretty poor overall technique in Scotland.

We're too busy trying to take a first touch to get the ball under control before passing and with the pace of the game and players closing down we feel the need to get rid of it as quickly as possible.

[--------]

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I do believe that Hibs have looked at the Desso GrassMaster system used in places such as Croke Park and the Emirates Stadium where the pitch is a mix of synthetic and natural grass, and results in a very good playing surface that is almost unaffected by weather like we had this past winter. Only problem I think is cost, not a cheap option, but it would mean that the pitch wouldn't have to be relayed every season. See wikipedia article here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desso_GrassMaster

Thanks - I was trying to remember the name of that system yesterday.

It IS expensive to maintain, I know, but it might very well pay its way in the long run.

I understand that the reason Hamilton lifted their synthetic was simply to avoid argy-bargy from those who run the SPL. They'd played 4 seasons in the SFL on it without any problems, and had developed a deserved reputation for playing passing positive football in the process.

The physical aspects of the game have already been killed off in most parts of the world, I'd say. The US insistence that 'sawker' is a game for schoolkids and women has done the deed. The old-fashioned game's beyond saving, I guess.

Why they couldn't have done what hockey's done and had one set of rules for the men letting them kick lumps out of one another, and another for the kiddies and girlies telling them to play nice, I don't know.

[--------]

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Grass is the material 21st century material Mr Nosey. It is your ideas that are out of date having their origins in a petrochemical soon to be bygone era. It is formed using energy straight from the sun and fresh air. It renews and repairs itself if treated properly. It is clean green and helps to remove some of the CO2 that you old fashioned, outmoded and generally senile thinkers would have us wiped out by.

Awey an hug a tree ya bam!

[noseyhibby]

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Grass is the material 21st century material Mr Nosey. It is your ideas that are out of date having their origins in a petrochemical soon to be bygone era. It is formed using energy straight from the sun and fresh air. It renews and repairs itself if treated properly. It is clean green and helps to remove some of the CO2 that you old fashioned, outmoded and generally senile thinkers would have us wiped out by.

old-fashioned, outmoded and senile? Thank you for the compliments Sahib. Next time, stick to the points made and don't resort to name-calling and personal abuse.

[HibeesLA]

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How do you know all these things having just played on it? Were there lots of injuries that are attributable to the pitch, and what happened to your joints?

For me the new pitches should be looked at. Football should be played during the winter months but there's no reason we could not ensure the pitches are up to scratch to cope with it.

I've been playing on the new artificial pitches here in LA for the last 3 years, and I have to say that I hear more complaints about soreness/stiffness in joints the next morning than from games played on grass, and that's taking into account that grass pitches in LA are not as watered so they are a very hard surface.

Granted, none of us are professional players, and don't have the coaching and medical staff on hand for correct stretching, but I would say that in my opinion there is a difference, albeit not as much as their used to be.

On the subject of Arsenal, Man Utd and Wembley pitches, not only do they have the plastic inserts, but they also employ lighting grids on the pitches that help the grass grow all year round, so this is also a major factor in why they look so good. I believe it's a Dutch company that supplies the technology (great for growing herbal medicine probably). However, the electrical costs are huge for this.