Dallas and refs

[hibhib7]

He could maybe start off by ensuring that the refs are actually allowed to referee the games instead of the players. Boyd (he of 'It's a Man's Game') and his cronies spent the whole game on Sunday bleating, moaning and disputing every decision that went against them (even when it was blatantly obvious the award was the other way) and generally made the officials' jobs harder than it should have been.

It's high time something was done about this and Dallas could do worse than tell refs to book persistent offenders who continue to harangue officials, ie the whole Rangers team.

[lapsedhibee]

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He could maybe start off by ensuring that the refs are actually allowed to referee the games instead of the players. Boyd (he of 'It's a Man's Game') and his cronies spent the whole game on Sunday bleating, moaning and disputing every decision that went against them (even when it was blatantly obvious the award was the other way) and generally made the officials' jobs harder than it should have been.

It's high time something was done about this and Dallas could do worse than tell refs to book persistent offenders who continue to harangue officials, ie the whole Rangers team.

Not an eggchasing fan but that game's got that particular issue spot on.

[number 27]

I must say my heart sank on Sunday at half time when the ref seemed to allow the whole Rangers team to line up and moan at him. He made no attempt to warn them off and also tolerated subs coming on to join in.

At that point You could pretty much guarantee a big decision going their way in the second half.

[hibhib7]

It's embedded into the OF culture - Aberdeen have also been pretty good at it over the years. The theory is: if you complain loud enough and often enough, the refs will eventually relent and give a decision in your favour. This is a far worse offence than booting the ball away and wastes more time.

[jdships]

Here is Dallas's article from BBC Sport.
Makes for interesting reading

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/8517730.stm

[Argylehibby]

I remember Aberdeen under Fergusson had it down to a fine art. First foul against them and Miller / McLeish were at the ref complaining. I'm sure some teams are still sent out with that instruction from their manager.

Solution is simple. Ref tells both captains at the start that he is the boss and anyone approachng him shouting and complaining will be booked. 1 yellow card later (probably after 5 minutes into the game if Hertz or the infirm are playing) and the problems solved.

[Kurtz]

I noticed this gamesmanship from the off on Sunday. Continually harrassing the referee and objecting to everything that didn't go their way. A tactic used continually by the OF. Maybe we're still a bit naive about using this for our benefit.

From Wiki: Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win a game, such as golf or snooker. "Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end." (Lumpkin, Stoll and Beller, 1994:92). As opposed to sportsmanship, it may be inferred that the term derives from playing for the game (to win at any cost) as opposed to playing for sport. The term originates from Stephen Potter's humorous 1947 book, The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship (or the Art of Winning Games without Actually Cheating).

See also the movie "School For Scoundrels" starring Terry Thomas. A classic example of how to win using one upmanship and damn funny too.

[ancient hibee]

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I noticed this gamesmanship from the off on Sunday. Continually harrassing the referee and objecting to everything that didn't go their way. A tactic used continually by the OF. Maybe we're still a bit naive about using this for our benefit.

From Wiki: Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win a game, such as golf or snooker. "Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end." (Lumpkin, Stoll and Beller, 1994:92). As opposed to sportsmanship, it may be inferred that the term derives from playing for the game (to win at any cost) as opposed to playing for sport. The term originates from Stephen Potter's humorous 1947 book, The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship (or the Art of Winning Games without Actually Cheating).

See also the movie "School For Scoundrels" starring Terry Thomas. A classic example of how to win using one upmanship and damn funny too.

And the goodie(Ian Carmichael)won in the end but only after he changed his approach-without losing his decency.

[banarc7062]

If Refs were allowed to explain controversial decisions it may help but the long established say nothing policy does not help situations.

[degenerated]

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If Refs were allowed to explain controversial decisions it may help but the long established say nothing policy does not help situations.

they should be obliged rather than allowed

[--------]

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I noticed this gamesmanship from the off on Sunday. Continually harrassing the referee and objecting to everything that didn't go their way. A tactic used continually by the OF. Maybe we're still a bit naive about using this for our benefit.

From Wiki: Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal) methods to win a game, such as golf or snooker. "Pushing the rules to the limit without getting caught, using whatever dubious methods possible to achieve the desired end." (Lumpkin, Stoll and Beller, 1994:92). As opposed to sportsmanship, it may be inferred that the term derives from playing for the game (to win at any cost) as opposed to playing for sport. The term originates from Stephen Potter's humorous 1947 book, The Theory and Practice of Gamesmanship (or the Art of Winning Games without Actually Cheating).

See also the movie "School For Scoundrels" starring Terry Thomas. A classic example of how to win using one upmanship and damn funny too.

And a couple of wee gems they are, too.

IIRC, dear old Alistair Sim played Potter, who takes Carmichael under his wing and enables him to overcome the dastardly Terry-Thomas.

T-T was actually cheating, I think, and Potter explains to Carmichael that you don't have to cheat to win if you employ gamesmanship. A lovely wee book, and a lovely wee film.

http://www.vqronline.org/articles/19...-timelessness/


I don't wish to be over-pedantic, but "oneupmanship" is sightly different.

For example, if some twonk's impressing your girl with his Lamborghini or Ferrari, you might (in the course of conversation) mention that the LAST guy you met who had one had had the misfortune to have been castrated in an agricultural accident a few years previously and had bought the car to compensate for his consequent anatomical deficiencies, and then inquire sincerely and solicitously into HIS state of health, and into whether HE had suffered a similar accident before buying HIS erm....

(You should indirectly, but unequivocally, infer that his car is nothing more than a surrogate p***s.... But without actually saying so.)

Whatever he answers, he's going to sound either vague and evasive (bad) or boastful (much, much worse).

YOU, of course, have no problems in the trouser department - that's why you drive a Skoda.

THAT is the Art of Oneupmanship - the systematic and conscious practice of "creative intimidation", making one's associates feel inferior and thereby gaining the status of being "one-up" on them.

Potter wrote a sequel to 'Gamesmanship' on 'The Art of Oneupmanship'. Very entertaining.

[PeeKay]

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Here is Dallas's article from BBC Sport.
Makes for interesting reading

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/8517730.stm

From that article, ""Consistency was again high on the agenda."
How about starting with some consistency on leaving the pitch to celebrate a goal? It's a simple thing - one of the few that does not need to be subject to interpretation by the ref. If it's a yellow card for a Montrose player then it should be a yellow card for the sheep and the huns.

[Kurtz]

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And a couple of wee gems they are, too.

IIRC, dear old Alistair Sim played Potter, who takes Carmichael under his wing and enables him to overcome the dastardly Terry-Thomas.

T-T was actually cheating, I think, and Potter explains to Carmichael that you don't have to cheat to win if you employ gamesmanship. A lovely wee book, and a lovely wee film.

http://www.vqronline.org/articles/19...-timelessness/


I don't wish to be over-pedantic, but "oneupmanship" is sightly different.

For example, if some twonk's impressing your girl with his Lamborghini or Ferrari, you might (in the course of conversation) mention that the LAST guy you met who had one had had the misfortune to have been castrated in an agricultural accident a few years previously and had bought the car to compensate for his consequent anatomical deficiencies, and then inquire sincerely and solicitously into HIS state of health, and into whether HE had suffered a similar accident before buying HIS erm....

(You should indirectly, but unequivocally, infer that his car is nothing more than a surrogate p***s.... But without actually saying so.)

Whatever he answers, he's going to sound either vague and evasive (bad) or boastful (much, much worse).

YOU, of course, have no problems in the trouser department - that's why you drive a Skoda.

THAT is the Art of Oneupmanship - the systematic and conscious practice of "creative intimidation", making one's associates feel inferior and thereby gaining the status of being "one-up" on them.

Potter wrote a sequel to 'Gamesmanship' on 'The Art of Oneupmanship'. Very entertaining.

You are, of course, absolutely right on all counts. Sim, Carmichael and Thomas are splendid together in this film. Sadly, Carmichael, the sole survivor of this trio, passed away just a few days ago.

Your explanation of the differences between gamesmanship/oneupmanship is most splendid. I've read neither of the books but they sound rather intriguing and shall be added to my collection asap.

[Argylehibby]

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From that article, ""Consistency was again high on the agenda."
How about starting with some consistency on leaving the pitch to celebrate a goal? It's a simple thing - one of the few that does not need to be subject to interpretation by the ref. If it's a yellow card for a Montrose player then it should be a yellow card for the sheep and the huns.

And was for Bamba at Falkirk too. If I remember correctly, he only left the field when he reached the dugout whereas on Sunday SW ran the length of the touchline without any card shown.

The referee when we played Falkirk that day? Yes a certain S Conroy.

[hibbybrian]

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And was for Bamba at Falkirk too. If I remember correctly, he only left the field when he reached the dugout whereas on Sunday SW ran the length of the touchline without any card shown.

The referee when we played Falkirk that day? Yes a certain S Conroy.

The only difference is that we were playing at Ibrox

[brog]

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I must say my heart sank on Sunday at half time when the ref seemed to allow the whole Rangers team to line up and moan at him. He made no attempt to warn them off and also tolerated subs coming on to join in.

At that point You could pretty much guarantee a big decision going their way in the second half.

Yep, I could hardly believe it when Nacho Novo thought he needed to join the action. He should have been booked. Some of the appeals were ludicrous, I remember one Hun, may have been Katy, running the ball out of play without a Hibs player in sight yet his hand automatically went up in an appeal. Similarly the shyster Boyd snarling at the officials very early on, gave every impression he had been seriously wronged until we saw the replay. IMO it's serious cheating but as a Hibs fan of more than 50 years things are actually better now. At least with TV we all se these things, previously the OF operated without any form of sanction or publicity.
PS, from today's DR - Kenny Miller - " Sometimes you don't need there to be contact, a leg comes across & you are just trying to get out of the way of it".
I guess that's a definition of a penalty down Govan way!