What happened to 3-5-2 of the early noughties

[KWJ]

My favourite Hibs team used it under big Eck & Martin O'Neill transformed Celtic with it yet it seems to have disappeared.


========= Riordan== Stokes==========

============Zemmama=============

=======Miller======McBride==========

==Murray===============Wotherspoon=

========Hanlon=Bamba=Hogg=========

===============S/S===============

If it was just as before I'd maybe go with Hogg as sweeper instead of Bamba to give the heart a little break. Either way though, I like it! McBride is the Matty Jack with Miller the O'Neill. Zouma gets his chance to see if he can lace the wee magician's boots. No Mixu/Lehmann as target man but with the baw on the deck it shouldn't matter.

Go on, just for one game at home to Hamilton or something. Please. Put it on the tele though!

Laursen tearing up the wing was a treat, he was HUGE! Jack killing folk all over the shop. Latas simply oozing class. Happy days.

[Part/Time Supporter]

It got found out by teams playing one up front.

[ancient hibee]

The trouble just now is that we are falling between 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 and playing neither system-the main result being that the front players are isolated.All 3 goalson Sat(I know it was just IM)came as a result of using the wings as the point of attack.

[CheesyHibby]

aye the front players are definitely rather isolated at the mo, no matter who they are. the other problem with 3-5-2 is our centre backsarent good enough at the moment to only play 3 at the back, would leave us wide open against a tema like dundee u

[Steve20]

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Laursen tearing up the wing was a treat, he was HUGE! Jack killing folk all over the shop. Latas simply oozing class. Happy days.

I can't believe how fast time has flown by. 9 years ago that was. I loved that team.

[rightwinger]

The system was started to accomodate Sauzee - he was best at sweeper because he didn't have the fitness to play centre midfield anymore.

Williamson used it briefly in his first full season (with reasonable results) because of the communication difficulties involved in trying to play offside with foreign players (Zambernardi and Janos Matyus at that time). We then started winning a few games and he kept the formation for a bit with Townsley playing at sweeper (he was no Sauzee obviously but he did ok IIRC - Townsley was a huddie in one respect but quite underrated in another).

Collins also used it briefly with less success - the game against Hearts when they scored after 25 seconds had Martis Hogg and Jones there. He also tried Beuzelin at sweeper a couple of times. Beuzelin got sent-off in a 3-3 draw with Rangers and he had to change systems in the 3-2 win v Celtic because 3-5-2 ended up 3-6-1. You play 3-5-2 to shore up your defence and control the game but the manager and players really need to know what they are doing to play the system - it's not a strategy to be adopted on a whim because it changes the whole way you play - the normal 'push up and play offside' becomes something quite different and if you're sweeper has an off-day...

It's a tough system to play because - with a sweeper - you have to defend quite deep and that can make it harder to link defence to midfield and midfield to attack. You need savvy full-backs who know when to defend and when to attack and midfielders with great engines. McLeish made it work because he had two great wingbacks in Lovell and Laursen and John O'Neil in midfield. Sauzee could play a 60 yard pass as easy as the rest could play a 6 yard pass and Latapy had vision too. At lot of the continental players that McLeish had naturally knew the way the system worked.

For today's team, I suppose Murray and Wotherspoon would be benefitted by playing wingback roles - DW could get forward more and Murray could beef up the middle. Liam Miller could be O'Neil, Zemmama could be Latapy and Rankin or KMcB could do the graft. McCormack and Bamba marking with Hogg sweeper. Stokes and Riordan up front:

----------------------Smith/Stack

---------McCormack----Hogg-------Bamba

Wotherspoon----Miller-----Rankin-----Murray
-------------------Zemmama

--------------Stokes ------Riordan

Quite interesting but I don't see the need for Hughes to change the formation at the moment.

[sambajustice]

To play it you either need 3 great centre backs, Balde, Mjallby, Valgaeran (sp) Laursen or you need one Superstar (sauzee) and two other half decent players who just do the Superstars bidding.

Bamba is neither a Superstar or a great Centre back!

[jacomo]

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It got found out by teams playing one up front.

Not sure about that, it was 4-4-2 that replaced it.

I think that as footballers have got fitter and the game has got quicker, a back three are very vulnerable to being attacked from wide as they can't cover the entire width of the pitch.

If the wing backs come back to cover, then the team effectively has a back five and can end up trapped on its own 18 yard line, without enough bodies further forward.

You sometimes still see it used in game, when managers make a tactical switch to go for a win (ie leaving the team very exposed at the back) or sometimes when a team is leaking goals and needs drastic action to tighten up.

Even in Italy, where the system was perfected, it seems 3-5-2 is outmoded these days.

[hibsbollah]

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Not sure about that, it was 4-4-2 that replaced it.

I think that as footballers have got fitter and the game has got quicker, a back three are very vulnerable to being attacked from wide as they can't cover the entire width of the pitch.

If the wing backs come back to cover, then the team effectively has a back five and can end up trapped on its own 18 yard line, without enough bodies further forward.

You sometimes still see it used in game, when managers make a tactical switch to go for a win (ie leaving the team very exposed at the back) or sometimes when a team is leaking goals and needs drastic action to tighten up.

Even in Italy, where the system was perfected, it seems 3-5-2 is outmoded these days.

I think the advent of the attacking fullback made the 3-5-2 obsolete. Instead of the two wingbacks getting forward in the 352, these days the attacking fullbacks do the job and a holding midfielder in the middle is the one that has a defensive job to do. At the highest level of football, the wide striker almost has a defensive role in stopping the fullbacks from getting up the field (see Dirk Kuyt at Liverpool).

[jacomo]

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I think the advent of the attacking fullback made the 3-5-2 obsolete. Instead of the two wingbacks getting forward in the 352, these days the attacking fullbacks do the job and a holding midfielder in the middle is the one that has a defensive job to do. At the highest level of football, the wide striker almost has a defensive role in stopping the fullbacks from getting up the field (see Dirk Kuyt at Liverpool).

Yup, very true.

[Winston Ingram]

I remember Gordon Strachan talking about this formation after Southampton won 3-1 at White Hart Lane in the game which cost Glenn Hoddle his job. He was basically saying that he wished all the teams Southampton played against used it.

His thoughts on it were you just needed to get the ball behind the wing backs and you were odds on to win. Reason being that the CB's would have to go into areas of the pitch they were uncomfortable in and wide midfielders with pace would have 20-30yds to run at them and get loads of crosses in

He also said it was almost impossible for a wing back to maintain the levels of fitness for 90 minutes meaning that nearer the end of the game the chances would flow.

I think his thoughts are supported by the fact that you never see that formation anymore

[ancient hibee]

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I remember Gordon Strachan talking about this formation after Southampton won 3-1 at White Hart Lane in the game which cost Glenn Hoddle his job. He was basically saying that he wished all the teams Southampton played against used it.

His thoughts on it were you just needed to get the ball behind the wing backs and you were odds on to win. Reason being that the CB's would have to go into areas of the pitch they were uncomfortable in and wide midfielders with pace would have 20-30yds to run at them and get loads of crosses in

He also said it was almost impossible for a wing back to maintain the levels of fitness for 90 minutes meaning that nearer the end of the game the chances would flow.

I think his thoughts are supported by the fact that you never see that formation anymore

Quite right.Just see how uncomfortable McCormack and Hanlon can be -centre halves actually playing full back.

['Mon the Hibs]

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Laursen tearing up the wing was a treat, he was HUGE! Jack killing folk all over the shop. Latas simply oozing class. Happy days.

Yes, played the 'Matty Jack' role very well