12 years and counting. When will Scotland qualify for another major tournament?

[Alicky Ranks]

The earliest we can qualify for another major tournament in Euro 2012 which will take us up to 14 years since World Cup 1998, but at present I can't see us EVER qualifying again! Especially given that we've slipped into the lower batch of seeds for the next draw.

[MountcastleHibs]

I said some time after 2016. However, I really do feel that if we don't change our set up, we may never qualify again.

[johnrebus]

A number of countries with pretty average squads of players and smaller populations than ours have aleady qualified for the World Cup.

No reason to suggest that with the right man at the helm we can't get to the next European Championships.

Organisation and attitude can do a hell of lot when pure skill and talent is in short supply.

[MountcastleHibs]

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A number of countries with pretty average squads of players and smaller populations than ours have aleady qualified for the World Cup.

No reason to suggest that with the right man at the helm we can't get to the next European Championships.

Organisation and attitude can do a hell of lot when pure skill and talent is in short supply.

I think you may be clutching at straws mate... Hopefully you're right though.

[Sandy]

Are they not changing the format for the Euro's though ?, I think they are increasing the amount of teams/groups that make it to the finals. Anyone confirm ?, if they are increasing the teams we MIGHT qualify for the Euro's with the right manager in charge.

[MountcastleHibs]

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Re they not changing the format for the Euro's though ?, I think they are increasing the amount of teams/groups that make it to the finals. Anyone confirm ?, if they are increasing the teams we MIGHT qualify for the Euro's with the right manager in charge.

The problem is though our seeding is likely to put us in the third pot for these qualifiers. We were second seeds for the World Cup qualifiers.

[Dashing Bob S]

The way football becomes more about economies of scale, the harder it gets. Smaller nations who have done well, like Holland, have a completely different mindset to us. They invest in football and get kids into it from an early age. It's centred around their development, not about some red-faced masonic stage dad wanting to have the reflected glory of a pile of medals from his under 10's league.

Bigger population nations like England, Spain, Germany, Italy can get away with the fact that in the western world, our kids are video game junkies who can't go to the local park unsupervised. It's all climbing into a parental BMW, the alternative being dodging nonces and drug dealers. With the more populous countries, you can surely find 11 men out of 30 million who can do the business on the park. It's harder from 3 million.

Of course, then when we do produce a decent Under 21/18 squad, they get murdered by our OF dominated club system.

[sleeping giant]

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The way football becomes more about economies of scale, the harder it gets. Smaller nations who have done well, like Holland, have a completely different mindset to us. They invest in football and get kids into it from an early age. It's centred around their development, not about some red-faced masonic stage dad wanting to have the reflected glory of a pile of medals from his under 10's league.
Bigger population nations like England, Spain, Germany, Italy can get away with the fact that in the western world, our kids are video game junkies who can't go to the local park unsupervised. It's all climbing into a parental BMW, the alternative being dodging nonces and drug dealers. With the more populous countries, you can surely find 11 men out of 30 million who can do the business on the park. It's harder from 3 million.

Of course, then when we do produce a decent Under 21/18 squad, they get murdered by our OF dominated club system.

Cut me deep Robert !

I agree with the rest of your post though.

:notworthy:

[johnrebus]

[QUOTE=MountcastleHibs;2243269]I think you may be clutching at straws mate... Hopefully you're right though.[/QUOTE]



Not at all.

If we can get a manager who can pick the right players and play them to their strengths we can get to Euro 2012.

The most important thing - IMHO - is we come up with someone who can get a 'club', feeling about the International set up and develop a mindset that the players are proud to play for their country and are desperate to get to the finals of a major tournament .

As I said previously, with the right attitude and organisation it is possible to go a long way - even without an abundance of natural skill and talent.

Nothing to do with my dislike for the Old Firm, but whoever takes charge must not go cap in hand to the likes of Ferguson, Boyd and McGregor. It should be made plain that their international careers are over.

Personally I don't like the man, but I can't see past Levein.

[Phil MaGlass]

If we can dump, Hutton,Caldwell,McManus,Miller and 1 or 2 others,get the younger players in who HAVE talent then we may get somewhere.

[Mag7]

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A number of countries with pretty average squads of players and smaller populations than ours have aleady qualified for the World Cup.

No reason to suggest that with the right man at the helm we can't get to the next European Championships.

Organisation and attitude can do a hell of lot when pure skill and talent is in short supply.

Seems there are plenty of reasons why that won't happen, 14 years' worth of them. OK, Vogts and Burley have been disasters, but Brown, Smith and McLeish, whatever your opinion of them, knew how to organise a side yet we have consistently failed to qualify for any tournament since 1998. Bottom line is we are garbage!

[MountcastleHibs]

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Not at all.

If we can get a manager who can pick the right players and play them to their strengths we can get to Euro 2012.

The most important thing - IMHO - is we come up with someone who can get a 'club', feeling about the International set up and develop a mindset that the players are proud to play for their country and are desperate to get to the finals of a major tournament .

As I said previously, with the right attitude and organisation it is possible to go a long way - even without an abundance of natural skill and talent.

Nothing to do with my dislike for the Old Firm, but whoever takes charge must not go cap in hand to the likes of Ferguson, Boyd and McGregor. It should be made plain that their international careers are over.

Personally I don't like the man, but I can't see past Levein.

I tend to agree with you in part, but I think it would be silly to expect a new manager to take us to 2012. The next appointment has to be a long term one, more likely looking at Euro 2016. They have to be able to rebuild the team and bring through the new generation of talent.

As I keep saying though, the whole system has to change, not just the managers position every 2 years when we fail (again) to qualify for a major final.

As for Levein, he is the only candidate mentioned that I would want. Maybe go down the foreign route if the right man comes up, but I really don't know who would want the job.

[Alicky Ranks]

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[QUOTE=MountcastleHibs;2243269]I think you may be clutching at straws mate... Hopefully you're right though.

Not at all.

If we can get a manager who can pick the right players and play them to their strengths we can get to Euro 2012.

The most important thing - IMHO - is we come up with someone who can get a 'club', feeling about the International set up and develop a mindset that the players are proud to play for their country and are desperate to get to the finals of a major tournament .

As I said previously, with the right attitude and organisation it is possible to go a long way - even without an abundance of natural skill and talent.

Nothing to do with my dislike for the Old Firm, but whoever takes charge must not go cap in hand to the likes of Ferguson, Boyd and McGregor. It should be made plain that their international careers are over.

Personally I don't like the man, but I can't see past Levein.


[/QUOTE]

Levein is vile. Hopefully he won't get the job.

As for der Huns who fell out with Burley, it would be daft not to consider them again given there are so few even half decent players at our disposal. Boyd in particular HAS to be a better option than Kenny Miller.

Personally, I thought Smith and especially McLeish DID develop the club mentality you speak of, but it still wasn't good enough.

[johnrebus]

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Seems there are plenty of reasons why that won't happen, 14 years' worth of them. OK, Vogts and Burley have been disasters, but Brown, Smith and McLeish, whatever your opinion of them, knew how to organise a side yet we have consistently failed to qualify for any tournament since 1998. Bottom line is we are garbage!

We came very close to qualifying for Euro 2008 with more or less the same group of players.

To say we are garbage is way over the top IMHO.

We need to calm down, be positive and pick the right man for the job.

[MountcastleHibs]

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We came very close to qualifying for Euro 2008 with more or less the same group of players.

To say we are garbage is way over the top IMHO.

We need to calm down, be positive and pick the right man for the job.

But who is that? No manager in their right mind would take the job imo. It's a poisoned chalice.

We need someone whose going to stay for 3/4 years, and not leave when the bigger clubs come calling.

[Killiehibbie]

The same year as Hibs and hearts contest The Champions League final that we win 5-1.

[Peevemor]

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The same year as Hibs and hearts contest The Champions League final that we win 5-1.

Next you'll be saying that Nadé will score for them.

[johnrebus]

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But who is that? No manager in their right mind would take the job imo. It's a poisoned chalice.

We need someone whose going to stay for 3/4 years, and not leave when the bigger clubs come calling.

Craig Levein.

As I said earlier, I don't like the guy, but he is the one person who can bring it all together in my humble opinion. And he won't take no **** from the likes of Smith or Peat either.

Mind you, you're right when you say that he might not want the job.......,

[crewetollhibee]

We have lived with the myth (perpetrated by the SFA, media and the clubs) that the continentals are ' technically superior '. Why ? Because there happens to be a strip of water between us ? FFS !!! Drive through even the tiniest French village e.g. and you will see an immaculate football pitch, and at least 1 tennis court. What's happened here ? School playing fields sold off, and facilities closed left, right and centre. No ball game signs appear as if by magic, and previously open grassy areas are suddenly landscaped. The attitude to sport at local and national level stinks, and until this changes nothing else will.

[Killiehibbie]

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Next you'll be saying that Nadé will score for them.

I'm not THAT deluded.

[Peevemor]

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We have lived with the myth (perpetrated by the SFA, media and the clubs) that the continentals are ' technically superior '. Why ? Because there happens to be a strip of water between us ? FFS !!! Drive through even the tiniest French village e.g. and you will see an immaculate football pitch, and at least 1 tennis court. What's happened here ? School playing fields sold off, and facilities closed left, right and centre. No ball game signs appear as if by magic, and previously open grassy areas are suddenly landscaped. The attitude to sport at local and national level stinks, and until this changes nothing else will.

Very true. Most towns (of as little as 2-3,000 people) have at least one indoor tennis court, a multi-function sports hall and a decent municipal football pitch.

And as a wee example, my elder daughter who will be 5 next week already goes 'swimming' with the school once a week. The pool is in another town about 10-15 minutes away and they go there and back on a chartered coach. The costs are paid by the school/council.

[greenlex]

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Cut me deep Robert !

I agree with the rest of your post though.

:notworthy:

[Killiehibbie]

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Very true. Most towns (of as little as 2-3,000 people) have at least one indoor tennis court, a multi-function sports hall and a decent municipal football pitch.

And as a wee example, my elder daughter who will be 5 next week already goes 'swimming' with the school once a week. The pool is in another town about 10-15 minutes away and they go there and back on a chartered coach. The costs are paid by the school/council.

Compared to this country where swimming lessons don't happen until primary 7 and only for 10 weeks or something.

[Alex B]

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We came very close to qualifying for Euro 2008 with more or less the same group of players.

To say we are garbage is way over the top IMHO.

We need to calm down, be positive and pick the right man for the job.

If what we suffered through in Cardiff on Saturday wasn't garbage, what was it?

If we were any good surely we would have qualified for at least one of the last six tournaments. Fair enough, we have had the occasional decent performance over the last dozen years, but they are far outweighed by the garbage ones.

[Mag7]

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If what we suffered through in Cardiff on Saturday wasn't garbage, what was it?

If we were any good surely we would have qualified for at least one of the last six tournaments. Fair enough, we have had the occasional decent performance over the last dozen years, but they are far outweighed by the garbage ones.

[Risboro Hibby]

Scottish football is now on a downward spiral. We no longer have players (Darren Fletcher excluded)playing with the very top Champions league sides in Europe, and very few playing first choice in the English Premier.

We are now sinking to the levels of Wales and Northern Ireland in that the best we can hope for is a gutsy qualifying campaign in which we finish 3 rd in the section, but still way of the pace.

Cant see us in my lifetime anyway qualifying for a finals, but the challenge for the New Manager is that I would love him to be prove me wrong.

[steakbake]

Get the right manager in and an SFA which doesn't try to banjax us with prioritising the OF and I'll see you in Poland/Ukraine 2012 .

[Sir David Gray]

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Very true. Most towns (of as little as 2-3,000 people) have at least one indoor tennis court, a multi-function sports hall and a decent municipal football pitch.

And as a wee example, my elder daughter who will be 5 next week already goes 'swimming' with the school once a week. The pool is in another town about 10-15 minutes away and they go there and back on a chartered coach. The costs are paid by the school/council.

Here, kids don't get swimming lessons with the school until they're in primary five (nine years old).

[Franck is God]

I could see us qualifying in 2014 but only if the right forward thinking manager is appointed now.

Our next manager needs to do what John Toshack has done for Wales. Pick a team primarily made up of 18-22 years olds with a sprinkling of the current squad players, its time to move on.

John Collins would be the man I would go with, perfect training ground manager for a young squad and someone all the players would respect.

[blackpoolhibs]

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I could see us qualifying in 2014 but only if the right forward thinking manager is appointed now.

Our next manager needs to do what John Toshack has done for Wales. Pick a team primarily made up of 18-22 years olds with a sprinkling of the current squad players, its time to move on.

John Collins would be the man I would go with, perfect training ground manager for a young squad and someone all the players would respect.