I dont understand why people on this board would want to get rid of the old firm. The SPL would not get a TV deal so you could kiss goodbye to the 60 million we recieved from SKY so teams like Hibs and Hearts etc would be operating with a 200k a year kitty meaning we would have vauxhall conference type players playing in the league. You would not see players like Stokes, Zemmama and Miller etc at ER with the wages we could offer. We would drop so far down in the euro co-efficiant that we would get one Champions League spot but we would have to play about 3 or 4 qualifying rounds meaning you would probably not see a Scottish team in the Champions League ever again. It would also be cringe worthy winning the league or cup without the Old Firm. I would rather finish 2nd in the spl with them in it.
As for their sectarian pi55, let them sing their songs, I dont take any offence to it, it does not bother me in anyway and am sure it doesn't bother anyone on this board but some people will still fell the need to moan about it after a game against the Old Firm.
Anyway I want them to stay and suffer in the SPL and suffer in Europe, they are in decline (there was still tickets for last weeks game available in the Huns end). They cant afford to pay big wages meaning they are signing **** players aka Broadfoot, Fox and so on. I think we will benifit in the long run because we have nothing to loose, lets face it we have been pi55 for 30 years now.
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Thread: Without the Old Firm
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10-10-2009 05:30 PM #1Testimonial Due
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Without the Old Firm
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10-10-2009 05:35 PM #2Testimonial Due
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I would pish myself laughing if they went all the back to the early 80's with a few thousand at ibrox and not that many more at parkhead. Watch them suffer and die here.
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10-10-2009 05:36 PM #3Left by mutual consent!
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Hardly...
The OF get so much media coverage because they are the top 2 sides in the SPL.
When the OF p!ss off.... it would only be a matter of time before a couple of other teams in the league would start dominating (Hibs being a massive contender)
Who's to say that 2 new teams dominating the league wouldnt get the same media coverage as Celtic and Rangers do right now?
IMO... It would only be a matter of time before Hibs and other clubs support bases increase.
When this happens, the clubs will be bringing in more money through the gates, teams will get money for qualifying for the CL and the Uefa Cup... and because of this... support for these clubs would increase even more.... which would then grab even more media attention... etc...
We don't need Celtic or Rangers in the SPL.
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10-10-2009 05:38 PM #4Coaching Staff
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When the Old Firm are playing in, arguably, the greatest league in the world and likely being relatively successful, why would our support base increase in any meaningful way?
Originally Posted by wee_hibee
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The OF get so much media coverage because they are the top 2 sides in the SPL.
When the OF p!ss off.... it would only be a matter of time before a couple of other teams in the league would start dominating (Hibs being a massive contender)
Who's to say that 2 new teams dominating the league wouldnt get the same media coverage as Celtic and Rangers do right now?
IMO... It would only be a matter of time before Hibs and other clubs support bases increase.
When this happens, the clubs will be bringing in more money through the gates, teams will get money for qualifying for the CL and the Uefa Cup... and because of this... support for these clubs would increase even more.... which would then grab even more media attention... etc...
We don't need Celtic or Rangers in the SPL.
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10-10-2009 05:43 PM #5Left by mutual consent!
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As it stands... Originally Posted by Beefster
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The OF are having a hard enough time in the SPL.
I can't see them being that successful in the EPL.
If they go to the EPL... I can't seem them qualifying for the CL for many many years (if ever).... thats when their glory hunting followers will be found out for what they are.
Their support will drop fairly rapidly.... and because of this... they will find it even more difficult to maintain a place in the top half.
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10-10-2009 05:47 PM #6@hibs.net private member
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How much of this 60m do Hibs (and other non old firm clubs) receive Originally Posted by CB_NO3
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Pretty sure its not an even split
I would imagine there would still be a TV deal in place that would give the non old firm clubs roughly the same as what they get now...
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10-10-2009 05:48 PM #7Testimonial Due
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SPL is dire just now. Teams like Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen would all benefit from the OF leaving. Its the other teams that depend on 4 games with old firm. It woul take a couple of years to adjust. but we could change to SPL1 & SPL2. Both with 18 teams. Then regional leagues after that.
we could also offer to start a UK Cup.
Something needs to change in the next few years. i vote for this.
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10-10-2009 06:15 PM #8Testimonial Due
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Who in the right mind would pay cash to watch Dundee United V Hibs or Aberdeen V Motherwell and so on, the TV deal only exists because Rangers and Celtic play every week on TV. Originally Posted by Cool_Hand_Luke
This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteHow much of this 60m do Hibs (and other non old firm clubs) receive
Pretty sure its not an even split
I would imagine there would still be a TV deal in place that would give the non old firm clubs roughly the same as what they get now...
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10-10-2009 06:18 PM #9Left by mutual consent!
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Put down the methamphetamine and step away from the keyboard...
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10-10-2009 06:24 PM #10Left by mutual consent!
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That makes no sense. Originally Posted by CB_NO3
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Celtic and Rangers play every week on the TV because a TV deal exists.... not the other way around.
And the reason a TV deal exists is because more people would tune in to watch a Celtic or Rangers game over any other game.
And the reason more people would tune in to watch a Celtic or Rangers is because Celtic and Rangers have a bigger fan base.... and the reason Celtic and Rangers have a bigger fan base is because they are the 2 most successful clubs in the SPL.
If Rangers and Celtic were to move to the EPL... within the first few years of winning no silverware... there glory hunting fan base would soon drop considerably... making it even harder for them to win silverware.... the media would no longer be interested in them either.
Where as... new teams in the SPL would soon dominate 1st and 2nd spot... they would then qualify for a CL place nearly every season... and there fan base would soon increase... which would then pick up media attention.
In other words... they would be like a new version of the OF.... but a good version... almost completely free of bigotry and violence.
The OF leaving is the best thing that could happen for the SPL.
But I don't see it happening anytime soon.... because far too many people fear change.
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10-10-2009 06:27 PM #11Coaching Staff
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That's the great problem the OF will have. Originally Posted by wee_hibee
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They've got huge numbers of season ticket holders because they're successful, and even now they're stuggling to fill their grounds. If they did go to the EPL, they'd have no problem selling out against the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea or Liverpool but is your average Old Firm supporter going to fork out to see a game against Wigan or Burnley on a Monday night or put up with the hike in season ticket prices that their entry into that league will invariably mean?
A couple of seasons of mediocrity and mid table finishes, coupled with the higher costs would soon see their attendances drop away.
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10-10-2009 06:31 PM #12Left by mutual consent!
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Originally Posted by Shugster
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They would probably survive in the premiership, but they would be very mediocre sides, and people would lose interest fast.
Yes... they would have more money... but they will be in a league where money can get used as arse paper.
They will only then be remembered for 1 thing.... bigotry.
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10-10-2009 06:32 PM #13RemovedLeft by mutual consent! Originally Posted by wee_hibee
This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteThat makes no sense.
Celtic and Rangers play every week on the TV because a TV deal exists.... not the other way around.
And the reason a TV deal exists is because more people would tune in to watch a Celtic or Rangers game over any other game.
And the reason more people would tune in to watch a Celtic or Rangers is because Celtic and Rangers have a bigger fan base.... and the reason Celtic and Rangers have a bigger fan base is because they are the 2 most successful clubs in the SPL.
If Rangers and Celtic were to move to the EPL... within the first few years of winning no silverware... there glory hunting fan base would soon drop considerably... making it even harder for them to win silverware.... the media would no longer be interested in them either.
Where as... new teams in the SPL would soon dominate 1st and 2nd spot... they would then qualify for a CL place nearly every season... and there fan base would soon increase... which would then pick up media attention.
In other words... they would be like a new version of the OF.... but a good version... almost completely free of bigotry and violence.
The OF leaving is the best thing that could happen for the SPL.
But I don't see it happening anytime soon.... because far too many people fear change.
I think the only reason there is a tv deal is because of Rangers & Celtic. I doubt without them whether we would get a CL place and if we did it would be max qualifying rounds which no scottish team would get through imo so cant see our fan base increasing from say 40K but our weekly crowds probably would increase if we were in with the chance of winning something - relegation season a perfect example of that.
I agree that the best thing for the SPL is them leaving though - bring it on .
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10-10-2009 06:34 PM #14Coaching Staff
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You're making a lot of assumptions. How do you know we wouldnt get a TV deal? Originally Posted by CB_NO3
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10-10-2009 06:35 PM #15Left by mutual consent!
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Don't quite understand the logic in that. Originally Posted by 65bdŽ
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But I agree with everything else you said.
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10-10-2009 06:38 PM #16@hibs.net private member
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Dundee Utd, Hibs, Aberdeen or Motherwell fans maybe Originally Posted by CB_NO3
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10-10-2009 06:40 PM #17RemovedLeft by mutual consent!Would the bbc, itv or sky pay to send cameras and employ pundits for SPL football without them, I'm not sure. We might get the goals on TV but that's just about all and it would be from feeds like HTV. I really cannot see the Glasgow or London based media, TV or radio being interested in an SPL without the old firm. What would be in it for them? Originally Posted by wee_hibee
This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteDon't quite understand the logic in that.
But I agree with everything else you said.
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10-10-2009 06:41 PM #18Testimonial Due
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Some very compelling arguments from both sides.
Let's just get shot of them. Risk it for the biscuit.
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10-10-2009 06:44 PM #19Left by mutual consent!
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But the reason they get so much coverage is because of their success in the SPL and CL... Not simply because they are the OF. Originally Posted by 65bdŽ
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If they were to leave...
It wouldnt take very long for other Scottish teams to dominate.
I don't see why other Scottish teams dominating wouldn't pick up as much coverage... because they would be acheiving what Celtic and Rangers have done....
Top of the table finishes and CL qualifying.
Sure... they wouldn't be doing as well in the CL to begin with... but that would improve over time.
If the OF were to leave, I can see more money floating around the SPL over the long term.
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10-10-2009 06:47 PM #20Left by mutual consent!
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Do you seriously think the media would give the SPL (if it was still called that after rantic leave) any more column inches than the Scottish 1st division gets? There would be hardly anything in the so-called Scottish national dailies. You'd get Hibs/Hearts in the EEN, as you currently get. If rantic went to England, the Herald, the Scotsman, the red-tops ... they would ALL fill their sports pages with Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal ... and rantic, because that's who the sports editors would think the majority of their readers would want to read about. They currently think all their readers are obsessed with rantic, so why would that change? The English teams would be the rantic opposition, the English teams would be the ones reported on. The SPL would be relegated to a page of reports at most. Originally Posted by wee_hibee
This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteHardly...
The OF get so much media coverage because they are the top 2 sides in the SPL.
When the OF p!ss off.... it would only be a matter of time before a couple of other teams in the league would start dominating (Hibs being a massive contender)
Who's to say that 2 new teams dominating the league wouldnt get the same media coverage as Celtic and Rangers do right now?
IMO... It would only be a matter of time before Hibs and other clubs support bases increase.
When this happens, the clubs will be bringing in more money through the gates, teams will get money for qualifying for the CL and the Uefa Cup... and because of this... support for these clubs would increase even more.... which would then grab even more media attention... etc...
We don't need Celtic or Rangers in the SPL.
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10-10-2009 06:52 PM #21@hibs.net private member
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While we are at it ..................How about Northern Ireland annexing Glasgow and the surrounding West coast area, then we can really get rid of the Sectarian Bigot Brothers for good...................
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10-10-2009 06:54 PM #22RemovedLeft by mutual consent!Now I really do disagree. They do get the coverage because they are the old firm. As Clerrie says the media would pick up on the EPL and every Saturday they would be reporting English games not a 2nd rate SPL. Originally Posted by wee_hibee
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It wouldn't bother me though as I'd be at the games so who cares about the radio or TV. Nothing would change as Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen, D Utd etc currently only get a fraction of airplay that they get. I think that our league would be more exciting but financially poorer.
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10-10-2009 06:58 PM #23First Team Breakthrough
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lets be honest - they havent been invited/accpeted in the EPL/Championship etc so clearly will not be going anywhere yet again.
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10-10-2009 06:58 PM #24Left by mutual consent!
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Surely it would take another generation or two to see this effect though. The current youngsters will still be supporting them and will probably have an influence on their kids, as I'm sure alot of our families have. Originally Posted by wee_hibee
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10-10-2009 06:58 PM #25Left by mutual consent!
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But how long do you think the media's grip on the old firm is going to last when they are acheiving virtually nothing every season? Originally Posted by clerriehibs
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No more League Cup wins.
No more Champions League
No Uefa Cup Qualifying
No more league dominance
Do you think the media would still give a toss about them?
Where as... in the SPL...
New teams will be challenging... not for 3rd, 4th or 5th..... but for TOP!
Imagine Hibs challenging for the top of the league and having a realistic chance of gaining entry into the CL... while the OF become small fish in a huge pond...
It wouldnt take long for us to pick up media interest IMO.
More success = bigger fan base
Bigger fan base = more media coverage
I don't see why it wouldnt work out that way.
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10-10-2009 07:03 PM #26Left by mutual consent!
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Yes... it would take some time. Originally Posted by Woody1985
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But I dont think it would take as long as some people think it would.
If the OF leave.... it would take a while for it to take effect.
But look at it this way...
If they don't leave.... It will never happen.
3rd place would be all we could ever hope for.... and thats not good enough IMO.
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10-10-2009 07:10 PM #27Testimonial Due
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We would not get a CL spot, we would have to play a qualifier, without Rangers and Celtic our co-efficient would drop as know one in Scotland can win a game in Europe outside the Old Firm. We would end up like the Irish league or Finnish league and would have to play a qualifier every season, which means you will never see a Scottish team in the CL again.
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10-10-2009 07:14 PM #28RemovedLeft by mutual consent!The media would give a toss because they would be playing the big English teams every week. Hibs v Hearts pah who cares, apart from Hibs & Hearts fans. Originally Posted by wee_hibee
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I like your arguements, I really do but I can see no evidence that that they are realistic. Scottish football would be 2nd rate but an expanded SPL including the top 1st Division teams would excite me and I think that average gates would rise but that would not correlate with any media interest imo
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10-10-2009 07:19 PM #29First Team Breakthrough
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Originally Posted by 65bdŽ
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i agree - plus hibs/hearts would soon become big fish in a small pond possibly sparking another OF scenario
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10-10-2009 07:42 PM #30Coaching Staff
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The Old Firm's revenue in the EPL would rocket (TV, sponsors) so they would afford and attract a far, far, better class of player. They'd also become hugely attractive to a very rich benefactor. Originally Posted by wee_hibee
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Their matchday income would become chicken-feed compared to what they'd take in from other sources.
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