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  1. #1
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    How come a club like Norwich...

    ...which is based in a city considerably smaller than Edinburgh and is now being embarrassed in what is effectively England's Third Division can still attract 25K to home games when both Hibs and Hearts don't even have grounds big enough to hold 20K these days?

    In the same league, Charlton pulled in 16.5K, while in the Championship Cardiff drew 22K, Leicester 26K and Derby a massive 33K. I know it was the opening day of the season but you'd hardly call any of these clubs major forces in football at present.

    Oh, and one other thing. If we were to lose 7-1 at home to St Mirren on Saturday as Norwich did to the mighty Colchester, would you want to see Yogi sacked? Just interested, as I wonder how close Gunn must be to losing his job after just one game. Judging by the reaction of some of the more volatile fans they want him out.


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  3. #2
    Norwich is a one team city/town though is it not.

    Also, with all the extra money floating about the leagues down there, the standard of play is generally better than whats on show up here.

    I would've launched my book at Gunn if I was that guy aswell!

  4. #3
    Testimonial Due hibeeleicester's Avatar
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    Leicester are huge down here..... being the only team in Leicestershire then they have a huge support. Theres also alot of optimism having just won league one and are now back in the championship.

    Leicester used to be a very good force in the premiership, i would call them a big club, bigger than hibs.

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    @hibs.net private member Godsahibby's Avatar
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    I also believe the catering is a lot better,

    Delia makes every pie herself.

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member Moulin Yarns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mag7 View Post
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    ...which is based in a city considerably smaller than Edinburgh and is now being embarrassed in what is effectively England's Third Division can still attract 25K to home games when both Hibs and Hearts don't even have grounds big enough to hold 20K these days?

    In the same league, Charlton pulled in 16.5K, while in the Championship Cardiff drew 22K, Leicester 26K and Derby a massive 33K. I know it was the opening day of the season but you'd hardly call any of these clubs major forces in football at present.

    Oh, and one other thing. If we were to lose 7-1 at home to St Mirren on Saturday as Norwich did to the mighty Colchester, would you want to see Yogi sacked? Just interested, as I wonder how close Gunn must be to losing his job after just one game. Judging by the reaction of some of the more volatile fans they want him out.

    After Norwich v Ipswich, Norwich v Colchester is a local derby, which might account for the decent crowd. Either that or Delia had baked the pies
    They tried to bury us, they didn't realise we were seeds.

  7. #6
    First Team Breakthrough .SeventyFive's Avatar
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    Well the aforementioned clubs are in towns/cities that have nothing else to do except go to the football.

    This Saturday at 3pm, people can either attend the Hibs match or go to a selection of 1000's of shows in this year's Fringe for considerably cheaper, for example.

    Edinburgh is an active city and sport, in general, often takes a back seat when people are deciding what to do with their weekends.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mag7 View Post
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    ...which is based in a city considerably smaller than Edinburgh and is now being embarrassed in what is effectively England's Third Division can still attract 25K to home games when both Hibs and Hearts don't even have grounds big enough to hold 20K these days?

    In the same league, Charlton pulled in 16.5K, while in the Championship Cardiff drew 22K, Leicester 26K and Derby a massive 33K. I know it was the opening day of the season but you'd hardly call any of these clubs major forces in football at present.

    Oh, and one other thing. If we were to lose 7-1 at home to St Mirren on Saturday as Norwich did to the mighty Colchester, would you want to see Yogi sacked? Just interested, as I wonder how close Gunn must be to losing his job after just one game. Judging by the reaction of some of the more volatile fans they want him out.
    10 times the population will mean that England will always have 'big small' clubs...I presume Norwich may attract audience from wider than just the city itself or indeed may be a one club city.

    Personally considering the relative staleness of Scottish football I thinks Hibs n Hearts don't do too bad...the question I would ask is how many more would turn up to see competative football or indeed EPL football. To me the more relevant analysis may be to the likes of Portsmouth (avg 19k) Blackburn (22k) Fulham (24k) Hull (never more than 18k until last season)....Hibs or Hearts could probalby quite easily have these numbers if there was actually anything for them to TRUELY get excited about. Until then we will work hard in driving up numbers but unfortunately it's a bit of an uphill struggle against the backdrop of Scottish football.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mag7 View Post
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    ...which is based in a city considerably smaller than Edinburgh and is now being embarrassed in what is effectively England's Third Division can still attract 25K to home games when both Hibs and Hearts don't even have grounds big enough to hold 20K these days?

    In the same league, Charlton pulled in 16.5K, while in the Championship Cardiff drew 22K, Leicester 26K and Derby a massive 33K. I know it was the opening day of the season but you'd hardly call any of these clubs major forces in football at present.

    Oh, and one other thing. If we were to lose 7-1 at home to St Mirren on Saturday as Norwich did to the mighty Colchester, would you want to see Yogi sacked? Just interested, as I wonder how close Gunn must be to losing his job after just one game. Judging by the reaction of some of the more volatile fans they want him out.

    One team in town and also the area has little affinity with anywhere else in England so no big draw to London teams or Man U or Liverpool.

    We have two teams in a fairly small city that is also mainly rugby orientated and we also have a huge percentage of people in the city and surrounding areas who follow the Old Firm.

  10. #9
    Coaching Staff iwasthere1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mag7 View Post
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    ...which is based in a city considerably smaller than Edinburgh and is now being embarrassed in what is effectively England's Third Division can still attract 25K to home games when both Hibs and Hearts don't even have grounds big enough to hold 20K these days?

    In the same league, Charlton pulled in 16.5K, while in the Championship Cardiff drew 22K, Leicester 26K and Derby a massive 33K. I know it was the opening day of the season but you'd hardly call any of these clubs major forces in football at present.

    Oh, and one other thing. If we were to lose 7-1 at home to St Mirren on Saturday as Norwich did to the mighty Colchester, would you want to see Yogi sacked? Just interested, as I wonder how close Gunn must be to losing his job after just one game. Judging by the reaction of some of the more volatile fans they want him out.
    The simple answer could be that the Norwich area has a population of about 370K so no surprise that they can attract crowds in the region of 25K.

    As for the fan(s) throwing their season tickets away at the game on Saturday. A bit over the top considering it's the first game even if they got humped 7-1. Sure I wouldn't throw mine away in the same circumstances. Brian Gunn from what I understand was not accepted by the majority of fans when he got the job and he could face an early exit from Carrow Road if they don't pick up from Saturday.
    Last edited by iwasthere1972; 10-08-2009 at 12:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwasthere1972 View Post
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    The simple answer could be that the Norwich area has a population of about 370K so no surprise that they can attract crowds in the region of 25K.

    As for the fan(s) throwing their season tickets away at the game on Saturday. A bit over the top considering it's the first game even if they got humped 7-1. Sure I wouldn't throw mine away in the same circumstances. Brian Gunn from what I understand was not accepted by the majority of fans when he got the job and he could face an early exit from Carrow Road if they don't pick up from Saturday.
    I thought Gunn was a bit of a legend as a Norwich player given his long association with the club? Or is he just not rated as a coach?

    If we lose 7-1 on Saturday I'll be calling for Yogi's head for sure!

  12. #11
    AFKA SuffolkHibee ChilliEater's Avatar
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    I taught at a school in Ipswich for a couple of years and, while there were a few followers of the London clubs and the odd Man U or Liverpool fan, the vast majority of the kids supported Ipswich, with many of them having season tickets.

    I also taught in Dunfermline for a year and would estimate 90% or more of the kids supported the Huns, with a handful of Pars fans and the odd one or two following Hibs, the Yams or Celtic.

    Make of that what you will.

  13. #12
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    Norwich are the only professional club in Norfolk, an area with a population of 840,000.

  14. #13

    How come a club like Norwich...

    Shirley Shaun Lawson's the only person who can answer such a question fully? What happened to him?

  15. #14
    Given his Norwich-Edinburgh connections, it's a shame that Shaun Lawson's been barred from this board. We'd have all benefited greatly from a seven-page sociological treatise on this matter.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S View Post
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    Given his Norwich-Edinburgh connections, it's a shame that Shaun Lawson's been barred from this board. We'd have all benefited greatly from a seven-page sociological treatise on this matter.

    I agree. The intellectual tone of this website has deteriorated sadly since poor Shaun got the old heave-ho.

    Still, our loss is Keechback's gain.

    I believe he's become quite a pet over there these days.

  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    I agree. The intellectual tone of this website has deteriorated sadly since poor Shaun got the old heave-ho.

    Still, our loss is Keechback's gain.

    I believe he's become quite a pet over there these days.
    Yes he has some sort of obscure quote in his signature relating to an incident involving Pat McGinlay.

    How sad for an Oxford resident Norwich City supporter to dredge up some dirt on a player who left Hibs eight or nine years ago so that he can suck up to the kickback 'missing links'.

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    It seems Steven Hughes may have made a little bit of a mistake.

  19. #18
    Coaching Staff jacomo's Avatar
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    Well, seeing as no one else has, I'm gonna blame the Old Firm and their legion of sofa-dwelling plastic supporters.


  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mag7 View Post
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    ...which is based in a city considerably smaller than Edinburgh and is now being embarrassed in what is effectively England's Third Division can still attract 25K to home games when both Hibs and Hearts don't even have grounds big enough to hold 20K these days?

    In the same league, Charlton pulled in 16.5K, while in the Championship Cardiff drew 22K, Leicester 26K and Derby a massive 33K. I know it was the opening day of the season but you'd hardly call any of these clubs major forces in football at present.

    Oh, and one other thing. If we were to lose 7-1 at home to St Mirren on Saturday as Norwich did to the mighty Colchester, would you want to see Yogi sacked? Just interested, as I wonder how close Gunn must be to losing his job after just one game. Judging by the reaction of some of the more volatile fans they want him out.

    Its due to glory hunting old firm fans. Thousands of them in Edinburgh and surrounding areas with no real reason apart from the fact their dad and his dad supported them etc.

    Its like a bad gene because they bring their kids up supporting a team that they will never actually show any real interest when doing bad, or actually go and watch live. This will go on for generations and is the whole single reason why scottish football is a complete mess. Not that I care much but its the same idea in Ireland where everyone supports man u, liverpool, celtic and rangers for no other reason than they win!!!

  21. #20
    Coaching Staff iwasthere1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alicky Ranks View Post
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    I thought Gunn was a bit of a legend as a Norwich player given his long association with the club? Or is he just not rated as a coach?

    If we lose 7-1 on Saturday I'll be calling for Yogi's head for sure!
    Gunn was a legend at Carrow Road but I don't think his appointment as manager went down too well. That's the impression I got when he took over the reins.

    Would YOU throw your season ticket away if we got thrashed on Saturday? Always wondered if the books are returned to their rightful owners or not. Maybe someone with experience in this department can tell me.

  22. #21
    Testimonial Due Joe Baker II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    One team in town and also the area has little affinity with anywhere else in England so no big draw to London teams or Man U or Liverpool.

    We have two teams in a fairly small city that is also mainly rugby orientated and we also have a huge percentage of people in the city and surrounding areas who follow the Old Firm.
    I don't dispute rugby unions historically cancerous influence on Edinburgh but given no rugby union club in Edinburgh regularly attracts much in excess of 2,000 spectators and most struggle to get three figure crowds not sure how a big influence it now is on Edinburgh football crowds which now generally compare reasonably well with a lot of towns of similar size in England.

    Better comparision is the Norfolk population 824,000, similar to Mid, East and West Lothian but where there is only one football team (may be Division 3 now but challenged for League in last decade) while 3 in Lothian Region (assuming Livingston survive). Nearest other league team to Ipswich 43 miles away with no other team in similar radius while we must have about 20 clubs (including two clubs with worldwide followings) within that radius.

  23. #22
    I read in yesterdays paper that Burnleys populations between 60,000 and 70,000 and theyve sold 17.000 season tickets and took 30,000 to their play off final. Given the size of Embra it puts our 30,000 plus cup final turnouts into perspective.

    We live in a city with a big armchair OF support , a big rugby (well one month a year 6 nations) support and a huge middle class who are generally just not interested in fitba. Its always been this way. I remember watching us as part of 4000 and 5000 crowds so the last decades crowds are id guess some of our best ever outwith the Famous 5 era.

    I also agree with a previous posters comments about the variety of weekend activities to do in a city like Embra. Id guess theres a huge amount more choice here than somewhere like Burnley where its either the fitba or whipping your ferret.

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brizo View Post
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    I read in yesterdays paper that Burnleys populations between 60,000 and 70,000 and theyve sold 17.000 season tickets and took 30,000 to their play off final. Given the size of Embra it puts our 30,000 plus cup final turnouts into perspective.

    We live in a city with a big armchair OF support , a big rugby (well one month a year 6 nations) support and a huge middle class who are generally just not interested in fitba. Its always been this way. I remember watching us as part of 4000 and 5000 crowds so the last decades crowds are id guess some of our best ever outwith the Famous 5 era.

    I also agree with a previous posters comments about the variety of weekend activities to do in a city like Embra. Id guess theres a huge amount more choice here than somewhere like Burnley where its either the fitba or whipping your ferret.
    Is that some kind of innuendo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Baker II View Post
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    I don't dispute rugby unions historically cancerous influence on Edinburgh but given no rugby union club in Edinburgh regularly attracts much in excess of 2,000 spectators and most struggle to get three figure crowds not sure how a big influence it now is on Edinburgh football crowds which now generally compare reasonably well with a lot of towns of similar size in England.

    Better comparision is the Norfolk population 824,000, similar to Mid, East and West Lothian but where there is only one football team (may be Division 3 now but challenged for League in last decade) while 3 in Lothian Region (assuming Livingston survive). Nearest other league team to Ipswich 43 miles away with no other team in similar radius while we must have about 20 clubs (including two clubs with worldwide followings) within that radius.

    I meant that, living in Edinburgh there is a high percentage of people who are rugby 'fans' and as such would have no interest at all in going to a football match, and in fact would probably be mortified about the mere thought of it.

    So, not so much that they are instead in a rugby ground, just that it cuts our target audience if we are looking at population sizes.

  26. #25
    Coaching Staff iwasthere1972's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brizo View Post
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    I read in yesterdays paper that Burnleys populations between 60,000 and 70,000 and theyve sold 17.000 season tickets and took 30,000 to their play off final. Given the size of Embra it puts our 30,000 plus cup final turnouts into perspective.

    We live in a city with a big armchair OF support , a big rugby (well one month a year 6 nations) support and a huge middle class who are generally just not interested in fitba. Its always been this way. I remember watching us as part of 4000 and 5000 crowds so the last decades crowds are id guess some of our best ever outwith the Famous 5 era.

    I also agree with a previous posters comments about the variety of weekend activities to do in a city like Embra. Id guess theres a huge amount more choice here than somewhere like Burnley where its either the fitba or whipping your ferret.
    That's a tremendous response from their supporters.

    I would say in our defence that if we were playing EPL opposition at ER we would probably have to extend our stadium to double what it is now. Sales even from tourists in Edinburgh would hit the roof if any of the "top four" were in town.

  27. #26
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    Some clubs have owners who actually have ambition for the team rather than merely keeping the club solvent. Yogi's enthusiasm will not sustain us unless we can sign a couple of players to raise us above the mediocre level. When the injuries start to pile up the only cover we have will be the young laddies.

    To be fair, I was at Bolton on Saturday and I thought the team had a good shape about them and the players seemed to know the parts they were meant to play. Trouble is; this is working defensively, with midfielders tracking back, but where are the goals going to come from? We are suffering from a lack of flair with only Riordan capable of giving us a bit different when Zooma isn't playing.

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibhib7 View Post
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    Some clubs have owners who actually have ambition for the team rather than merely keeping the club solvent. Yogi's enthusiasm will not sustain us unless we can sign a couple of players to raise us above the mediocre level. When the injuries start to pile up the only cover we have will be the young laddies.

    To be fair, I was at Bolton on Saturday and I thought the team had a good shape about them and the players seemed to know the parts they were meant to play. Trouble is; this is working defensively, with midfielders tracking back, but where are the goals going to come from? We are suffering from a lack of flair with only Riordan capable of giving us a bit different when Zooma isn't playing.
    That would be my worry too. I would imagine we will have players arriving before the window shuts. They need to be good, not just squad fillers.

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member Virginia Hibs's Avatar
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    Even in a relegation season like last year Norwich were getting 22 - 25k every home game. IIRC 21k were seasons last year and more or less the same number have renewed this year. My view is that the only other thing to do on a Saturday is the shopping or drive the combine harvester for a couple of hours (only really a useful exercise during the late summer months when there's nae fitba! ). The nearest teams are Ipswich and Colchester then the likes of Peterborough or it's non league football for you.
    NCFC have been living well beyond their means for many a year and are feeling the pain now. I've said it before and I'll say it again....they could do with a leader in the Rod Petrie style for a few years to get them on their financial feet.

    I am a season ticket holder at Carrow Road along with my laddie (6), only because he's started playing fitba and he can learn from watching the game. I can't say what went wrong on Saturday as we were at Bolton but Bryan has never been a popular choice for manager, split the support from the word go. No coaching qualifications and last season showed his lack of tactical knowledge. It's only his legend status which has kept the fans from his door up till now. Still there's 45 games to go to save the season!

    Just because she cooks on the telly doesn't mean she can make decent pies! Dont believe the hype. The pies are shocking! The number of times I've asked for a simple steak pie to be told we only have cabbage and cranberry is a joke! Now the Prime Steak Pies at Bolton Saturday courtesy of Holland's...there's a delicacy for you

    Who needs Shaun Lawson eh?

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Apart from being a one team city, you'll find that they don't have as many glory hunters disappearing every week to see bigger teams like we do here in Edinburgh.

  31. #30
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    ok, well i read somewhere that relative to population scotland is the best supported country in the world or maybe it was europe.

    it said there was something like 100k going every week to league matches...
    so for england to match that it would have to be like a million going...
    i'd guess 350k in epl, 200k in champ, 120k in l1, 80k in l3...

    so we dont do too bad on paper its just a shame that either 50% or 60% of the scottish leagues is rangers/celtic...

    crazy tho, leeds are also in league 1 and get 30k or something!! bout dunfermline, yeah cowdenbeath just along the road almost every single person supports rangers with the odd pars/raith/cowden fan!

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