2009 Ashes

[--------]

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thought Ponting's comments http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/default.stmabout gamesmanship were a bit out of order

a bit pot kettle black after all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IDFFmiwCqU

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If Punter had been in the same position, he would have done exactly the same. The Aussies are hardly angels when it comes to gamesmanship, they pretty much have sledging down to an art form.

'Course he would. This is serious stuff.

FWIW, neither England nor Australia have been guiltless over the years since WG Grace originally set the cat among the pigeons.

All part of the game, and jolly good fun it is too. Ponting says his piece, Flowers says his, everyone gets a wee bit heated, then it's on to Lord's and a whole new ball game.



Quote FalkirkHibee: "I can see how someone might enjoy watching the Twenty20 form of the game but Test cricket just seems extremely boring to me.

In saying that, I can also understand how someone might enjoy playing cricket (Test and Twenty20), the challenge of getting runs and trying to claim a wicket by either bowling or fielding seems quite fun to me.

I just don't think that Test cricket is an appealing prospect as a spectator, although if you are a cricket fan, I can see why you would like the traditional form of the sport."


Years and years ago BBC 2 showed a complete 40-overs game every Sunday afternoon - the John Player League, I think it was. I started watching that and enjoyed it - it was the sort of League where you saw young players, older players, and usually a couple of really good players playing in a limited-innings format where there was always a win-lose result.

Then friends who understood test cricket took me under instruction, and explained what was going on through one particular Ashes Test. That series happened to be a very good one - Illingworth and Ian Chappell were the captains, back around 1972 or so. By the end of the final day of the final test I was hooked.

Of course, it helped that I was watching players like Chappell, Lillee, Underwood, Gower, Gavaskar, Venkat, Hadlee, Botham, Zaheer, Imran, Greenidge, Richards, Lloyd, Holding, Marshall, Garner and so on....

The West Indies in the 1970s and 80s were a particular joy to watch - there weren't many draws around when Big Bird and Whispering Death were bowling and GG and the Great Man batting.

And the TMS crew were very good then - Jim Laker, Richie Benaud, John Arlott and Brian Johnson were wonderful braodcasters. Only Benaud is left now. The present bunch aren't nearly as good.



Arlott had a wonderful warm West Country accent.

I remember one Ashes match when Thommo got Brian Luckhurst in what Arlott described as "a particularly painful place".

(This was with the FIFTH ball of the over, btw. That's important.)

Brian collapsed clutching his groin while Thommo looked on, grinning.

The players gathered round.

Johnson: "I say, are they applying massage out there?" (Giggle.)

Laker: "Can't quite see... They're rubbing something... (Giggle.) He's all right now." (He wasn't.)

Arlott: "Luckhurst is back on his feet, looking rather shaky. He takes guard. Thomson comes in from the Nursery End. And there's ONE BALL LEFT....."

Total collapse of commentary team.

[LiverpoolHibs]

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'Course he would. This is serious stuff.

FWIW, neither England nor Australia have been guiltless over the years since WG Grace originally set the cat among the pigeons.

All part of the game, and jolly good fun it is too. Ponting says his piece, Flowers says his, everyone gets a wee bit heated, then it's on to Lord's and a whole new ball game.



Quote FalkirkHibee: "I can see how someone might enjoy watching the Twenty20 form of the game but Test cricket just seems extremely boring to me.

In saying that, I can also understand how someone might enjoy playing cricket (Test and Twenty20), the challenge of getting runs and trying to claim a wicket by either bowling or fielding seems quite fun to me.

I just don't think that Test cricket is an appealing prospect as a spectator, although if you are a cricket fan, I can see why you would like the traditional form of the sport."


Years and years ago BBC 2 showed a complete 40-overs game every Sunday afternoon - the John Player League, I think it was. I started watching that and enjoyed it - it was the sort of League where you saw young players, older players, and usually a couple of really good players playing in a limited-innings format where there was always a win-lose result.

Then friends who understood test cricket took me under instruction, and explained what was going on through one particular Ashes Test. That series happened to be a very good one - Illingworth and Ian Chappell were the captains, back around 1972 or so. By the end of the final day of the final test I was hooked.

Of course, it helped that I was watching players like Chappell, Lillee, Underwood, Gower, Gavaskar, Venkat, Hadlee, Botham, Zaheer, Imran, Greenidge, Richards, Lloyd, Holding, Marshall, Garner and so on....

The West Indies in the 1970s and 80s were a particular joy to watch - there weren't many draws around when Big Bird and Whispering Death were bowling and GG and the Great Man batting.

And the TMS crew were very good then - Jim Laker, Richie Benaud, John Arlott and Brian Johnson were wonderful braodcasters. Only Benaud is left now. The present bunch aren't nearly as good.



Arlott had a wonderful warm West Country accent.

I remember one Ashes match when Thommo got Brian Luckhurst in what Arlott described as "a particularly painful place".

(This was with the FIFTH ball of the over, btw. That's important.)

Brian collapsed clutching his groin while Thommo looked on, grinning.

The players gathered round.

Johnson: "I say, are they applying massage out there?" (Giggle.)

Laker: "Can't quite see... They're rubbing something... (Giggle.) He's all right now." (He wasn't.)

Arlott: "Luckhurst is back on his feet, looking rather shaky. He takes guard. Thomson comes in from the Nursery End. And there's ONE BALL LEFT....."

Total collapse of commentary team.

I stand by this being the greatest bit of radio broadcasting of all time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k0qZDdfvZk

Good old Johnners. Classic quotes;

"There's Neil Harvey standing at leg slip with his legs wide apart, waiting for a tickle."

And the possibly apochryphal, "The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey."

[bawheid]

Great thread this.

I sat on my arse and watched almost every ball of the first test, and I plan to do exactly the same from tomorrow onwards.

Felt Ponting spoiled what was a majestic display with the bat with his whinging and moaning about the 12th man / physio.

Good youtube clips of Donald v Atherton, the underarm ball, and Johnners commentary.

I see today Flintoff has announced his retirement from Test Match cricket following the Ashes. You have to question the timing.

Big match coming up for the England top order. Runs needed. And England haven't beaten the Aussies at Lords since the 1930s!

All set up for another belter. 'Mon the Test Match cricket!

[--------]

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I stand by this being the greatest bit of radio broadcasting of all time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k0qZDdfvZk

Good old Johnners. Classic quotes;

"There's Neil Harvey standing at leg slip with his legs wide apart, waiting for a tickle."


And the possibly apochryphal, "The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey."

I dunno about the last one - Johnners sometimes denied it, sometimes seemed to admit he'd said it, but I DO remember one moment in the 1981 Ashes where he announce, "The wicket we've all been waiting for - Lillee, caught Willey, bowled Dilley..." and everyone falling about.

The present lot just cannot reach such heights of erudition.

And then there was the Bearded Wonder - the late lamented Bill Frindall.

"Tell us, Bill - when was the last time a left-handed bespectacled batsman named Kevin was bowled by a right-arm medium pace bowler named Wilfred bowling round the wicket from the Kirkstall lane end when there was an 'R' in the month?"

"That would be the 29th of April 1955, Brian - Kevin Higginbotham playing for Leicestershire was bowled for 25 by Wilfred Mangoldwurzel. He was caught off teh outside edge by the Hon Lionel Snaithe-Wellington fielding at second slip. The umpire was old Grumpy Rumbold."

[LiverpoolHibs]

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I dunno about the last one - Johnners sometimes denied it, sometimes seemed to admit he'd said it, but I DO remember one moment in the 1981 Ashes where he announce, "The wicket we've all been waiting for - Lillee, caught Willey, bowled Dilley..." and everyone falling about.

The present lot just cannot reach such heights of erudition.

And then there was the Bearded Wonder - the late lamented Bill Frindall.

"Tell us, Bill - when was the last time a left-handed bespectacled batsman named Kevin was bowled by a right-arm medium pace bowler named Wilfred bowling round the wicket from the Kirkstall lane end when there was an 'R' in the month?"

"That would be the 29th of April 1955, Brian - Kevin Higginbotham playing for Leicestershire was bowled for 25 by Wilfred Mangoldwurzel. He was caught off teh outside edge by the Hon Lionel Snaithe-Wellington fielding at second slip. The umpire was old Grumpy Rumbold."

They're still good value. I very much enjoyed

On a seperate point I think cricket must be the game with the funniest banter in history, it beats football by a long chalk. My personal top ten favourite sledging moments.

1) Australia vs. Zimbabwe. Glenn McGrath bowling at and unable to dismiss Zimbabwe's number 11 and cult-hero Eddo Brandes:

McGrath: Hey Eddo, why are you so ****ing fat?

Brandes (for it is the famous chicken farmer): Because every time I **** your wife she gives me a biscuit.

Cue everyone on the Australian team bar McGrath breaking down in hysterics.

2) England vs. Australia. Jimmy Ormond is out batting and, somewhat unsurprisingly, receives taunts about his ability as a cricketer.

Mark Waugh: What the **** are you doing out here mate? There's no way you're good enough to play for England.

Ormond: Maybe so, but at least I'm the best player in my own ****ing family.

3) India vs. Australia. Ravi Shastri hits a single to twelfth man Mike Whitney and turns to look for a second.

Whitney: Leave that crease and I'll break your ****ing head!

Shastri: If you could bat as well as you talk you wouldn't be twelfth-****ing-man.

4) Glamorgan vs. Somerset. Gregg Thomas is bowling at Viv Richards and beats the bat a few times in a row.

Thomas: It's red, round and weighs about five ounces in case you were wondering.

[Vivian proceeds to smash the next ball out of the ground]

Richards: You know what it looks like, now go and ****ing find it.

5) West Indies vs. Australia. McGrath bowling (he always seems to walk right into them) to Ramnaresh Sarwan.

McGrath: So what does Brian Lara's dick taste like?

Sarwan: I don't know, ask your wife.

6) England vs. Australia. Merv Hughes is bowling to Robin Smith and is beating him all ends up.

Hughes: Hey Robin, you can't ****ing bat!

[Smith smashes the next few balls for four]

Smith: We make a fine pair Merv, I can't ****ing bat and you can't ****ing bowl!

7) England vs. Australia. Ian Botham come out to bat and is greeted by Rod Marsh behind the stumps with the line..

Alright Ian, how's the wife and my kids?

8) Australia vs. S. Africa. Daryl Cullinan is coming out to bat to face Shane Warne who reminds him of a torrid time he gave him in a previous series.

Warne: I've been waiting two years for another chance to get at you.

Cullinan: Yeah? It looks like you spent them eating.

9) England vs. Pakistan. Frank Tyson is bowling and gets an edge which is dropped at first slip by Raman Subba Row.

Subba Row: Sorry Frank, I should have closed my legs!

Tyson: No, your mother should have you *******!

10) England vs. Australia. Phil Tufnell is fielding on the boundary on an Ashes tour in Australia.

Aussie fan: Hey Tufnell, can I borrow your brain? I'm building an idiot!

[lyonhibs]

Some classic quotes there. Here are some more:

You can’t forget Ian Healy’s legendary comment that was picked up by the Channel 9 microphones when Arjuna Ranatunga called for a runner on a particularly hot night during a one dayer in Sydney… “You don’t get a runner for being an overweight, unfit, fat ******!!!”

Merv Hughes & Viv Richards:During a test match in the West Indies, Hughes didn’t
say a word to Viv, but continued to stare at him after deliveries. “This is my island, my culture. Don’t you be staring at me. In my culture we just bowl.” Merv didn’t reply, but after he dismissed him he announced to the batsman: “In my culture we just say ****** off.”

Mark Waugh standing at second slip, the new player (Adam Parore) comes to the crease playing & missing the first ball. Mark - “Ohh, I remember you from a couple years ago in Australia. You were sh*t then, you’re *****ing useless now”.Parore- (Turning around) “Yeah, that’s me & when I was there you were going out with that old, ugly sl*t & now I hear you’ve married her. You dumb c*nt”.

Yet another Australian witticism with this time porky Sri Lankan batsman Arjuna
Ranatunga the victim. Shane Warne, trying to tempt the batsman out of his crease mused what it took to get the plump character to get out of his crease and drive.
Wicketkeeper Ian Healy piped up, “Put a Mars Bar on a good length. That should do it.”

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They're still good value. I very much enjoyed

On a seperate point I think cricket must be the game with the funniest banter in history, it beats football by a long chalk. My personal top ten favourite sledging moments.

1) Australia vs. Zimbabwe. Glenn McGrath bowling at and unable to dismiss Zimbabwe's number 11 and cult-hero Eddo Brandes:

McGrath: Hey Eddo, why are you so ****ing fat?

Brandes (for it is the famous chicken farmer): Because every time I **** your wife she gives me a biscuit.

Cue everyone on the Australian team bar McGrath breaking down in hysterics.

2) England vs. Australia. Jimmy Ormond is out batting and, somewhat unsurprisingly, receives taunts about his ability as a cricketer.

Mark Waugh: What the **** are you doing out here mate? There's no way you're good enough to play for England.

Ormond: Maybe so, but at least I'm the best player in my own ****ing family.

3) India vs. Australia. Ravi Shastri hits a single to twelfth man Mike Whitney and turns to look for a second.

Whitney: Leave that crease and I'll break your ****ing head!

Shastri: If you could bat as well as you talk you wouldn't be twelfth-****ing-man.

4) Glamorgan vs. Somerset. Gregg Thomas is bowling at Viv Richards and beats the bat a few times in a row.

Thomas: It's red, round and weighs about five ounces in case you were wondering.

[Vivian proceeds to smash the next ball out of the ground]

Richards: You know what it looks like, now go and ****ing find it.

5) West Indies vs. Australia. McGrath bowling (he always seems to walk right into them) to Ramnaresh Sarwan.

McGrath: So what does Brian Lara's dick taste like?

Sarwan: I don't know, ask your wife.

6) England vs. Australia. Merv Hughes is bowling to Robin Smith and is beating him all ends up.

Hughes: Hey Robin, you can't ****ing bat!

[Smith smashes the next few balls for four]

Smith: We make a fine pair Merv, I can't ****ing bat and you can't ****ing bowl!

7) England vs. Australia. Ian Botham come out to bat and is greeted by Rod Marsh behind the stumps with the line..

Alright Ian, how's the wife and my kids?

8) Australia vs. S. Africa. Daryl Cullinan is coming out to bat to face Shane Warne who reminds him of a torrid time he gave him in a previous series.

Warne: I've been waiting two years for another chance to get at you.

Cullinan: Yeah? It looks like you spent them eating.

9) England vs. Pakistan. Frank Tyson is bowling and gets an edge which is dropped at first slip by Raman Subba Row.

Subba Row: Sorry Frank, I should have closed my legs!

Tyson: No, your mother should have you *******!

10) England vs. Australia. Phil Tufnell is fielding on the boundary on an Ashes tour in Australia.

Aussie fan: Hey Tufnell, can I borrow your brain? I'm building an idiot!

[LiverpoolHibs]

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Yet another Australian witticism with this time porky Sri Lankan batsman Arjuna Ranatunga the victim. Shane Warne, trying to tempt the batsman out of his crease mused what it took to get the plump character to get out of his crease and drive. Wicketkeeper Ian Healy piped up, “Put a Mars Bar on a good length. That should do it.”

They must have re-used that one! I heard it was at state level to an overweight no-body batsmen who then replied "**** that, Boonie (David Boon fielding at first slip - not surprisingly) will get to it before it's bounced!"

[GhostofBolivar]

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9) England vs. Pakistan. Frank Tyson is bowling and gets an edge which is dropped at first slip by Raman Subba Row.

Subba Row: Sorry Frank, I should have closed my legs!

Tyson: No, your mother should have you *******!

That's wrong. The bowler was Fred Trueman.

[TheEastTerrace]

Right chaps, 2nd Test starts this morning and battle recommences

Flintoff to play so fancy the only change to be Onions to come in for Monters. Lee still not fit for the Aussies so should be unchanged.

Sunny intervals predicted so may be some cloud cover for the bowlers. I'd fancy a bat first up though.

England haven't beaten the Aussies at Lords since 1930s so odds are on an Australia win or draw.

[TheEastTerrace]

England 88-0 so far, solid start by Cook and Strauss. Aggers on Twitter says there's not much in the pitch for bowlers so we could be looking at some big scores again. Johnson is continuing where he left off. 0-47 off 7 overs. Expensive!

A question for everyone? Do you think groundsmen are being 'advised' to prepare more lifeless pitches so Test matches go the distance? The cynic in me suggests that the more TV coverage of 5 day Test matches they can get in, the more sponsorship, ticket sales, advertising, corporate hospitality, etc they can squeeze out. Definitely a case of that happening on England's recent tour to the West Indies. I could have batted on those pitches.

[Hank Schrader]

I can't see the coverage at work but is Johnson still releasing the Duke ball out of his hand at a funny angle? They showed this last week on Sky and it seemed to be contributing to his shocking form. The seam was all over the place.

Maybe he isn't as effective without the Kookaburra ball

[TheEastTerrace]

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I can't see the coverage at work but is Johnson still releasing the Duke ball out of his hand at a funny angle? They showed this last week on Sky and it seemed to be contributing to his shocking form. The seam was all over the place.

Maybe he isn't as effective without the Kookaburra ball

At work so can't see any coverage but on Sunday, Sky Sports also showed the graphic of Johnson's deliveries in the 2nd innings. Not one ball would have hit the stumps and he was extremly erractic, which made it all the more confusing as to why Punter continued with him. They were touting him as their main strike bowler before this series. On this form, he'll be the one getting the chop once Lee is fit.

Great session for England though, 125-0 at the moment.

[Tomsk]

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I can't see the coverage at work but is Johnson still releasing the Duke ball out of his hand at a funny angle? They showed this last week on Sky and it seemed to be contributing to his shocking form. The seam was all over the place.

Maybe he isn't as effective without the Kookaburra ball

Do you know what ball they use in South Africa? He had a good series there over the winter.

This is the first time I've really seen him. His technique is under a bit of stress at the moment.

[TheEastTerrace]

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Do you know what ball they use in South Africa? He had a good series there over the winter.

This is the first time I've really seen him. His technique is under a bit of stress at the moment.

Think SA use Kookaburra as well.

[TheEastTerrace]

England haring along at just over 4 runs per over. Hauritz out with broken finger. 177-0 at the moment. Providing a collapse of epic proportions doesn't happen, they must be looking at 600+ as a target.

[blackpoolhibs]

196 for 1. Here comes the start of the collapse.

[Tomsk]

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England haring along at just over 4 runs per over. Hauritz out with broken finger. 177-0 at the moment. Providing a collapse of epic proportions doesn't happen, they must be looking at 600+ as a target.

320 all out. You watch. Masters of letting good positions slip.

[TheEastTerrace]

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320 all out. You watch. Masters of letting good positions slip.

Most definitely possible if Strauss is next man out. I fancy Collingwood to get a score though.

Bopara's failed again. They must be thinking about recalling Bell to bat at no.3 given his recent form with Warwickshire.

[Tomsk]

England are 255/2 at tea.

I can't recall a more inept start from Australia since the days of Kim Hughes. Plenty of time for an England collapse though.

[TheEastTerrace]

Aussies fighting back 333-6.

[Stonewall]

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England are 255/2 at tea.

I can't recall a more inept start from Australia since the days of Kim Hughes. Plenty of time for an England collapse though.

334/6 - You've watched England before haven't you.

[--------]

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England haring along at just over 4 runs per over. Hauritz out with broken finger. 177-0 at the moment. Providing a collapse of epic proportions doesn't happen, they must be looking at 600+ as a target.

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Aussies fighting back 333-6.

Ah - the Curse of Lord Nelson strikes again. Bopara goes at 222, Freddie Floatoff at 333.

All out for 444?

Now 6 for 342. Someone needs to have a strong word with the England middle order.

6 for 364 at close. A wee bit better.

[Mibbes Aye]

Not really caught much of today's play and will have to catch up. Looks like a very good start for England and once again their fragility has let them down. Fancy Australia to score runs here. Could be a bit of a repeat of Cardiff but with a more decisive result for the Aussies.

[--------]

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Not really caught much of today's play and will have to catch up. Looks like a very good start for England and once again their fragility has let them down. Fancy Australia to score runs here. Could be a bit of a repeat of Cardiff but with a more decisive result for the Aussies.

The start they were given by Strauss and Cook should have led on to a total well over 500 - Strauss should have been able to look forward to declaring sometime tomorrow afternoon around the 600 mark.

Classic mid-order collapse again.

I blame Nelson, myself.

[--------]

Very good start by England - Aussies 2 for 10 replying to 425 all out....

Is this going to be the end of a long run of results at Lord's?????

[blackpoolhibs]

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Very good start by England - Aussies 2 for 10 replying to 425 all out....

Is this going to be the end of a long run of results at Lord's?????

Lets hope not eh.

[Just Jimmy]

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Very good start by England - Aussies 2 for 10 replying to 425 all out....

Is this going to be the end of a long run of results at Lord's?????

I know very little about cricket, however is 425 not a completely garbage total considering Strauss hit 161 himself and the Opening pairing hit 161 and 95 respectively?

after that start should they not have been looking for 600-700?

I'm not a fan but I enjoyed (in a loose sense of the word) watching the highlights of the Cook and Strauss batting last night.

[Tomsk]

England have made a decent show of it this morning after a disastrous first few overs. The tail has brought the score up to respectibility, although given the start the team enjoyed an opportunity to put Australia out of the match has been missed -- again!

Two quick wickets and the Aussies are having to fight for their runs for once with Jimmy Andeson causing the batters (and umpires ) all sorts of problems.

All in all, it makes for a more interesting test match. There is nothing worse than run-saturated test cricket.

As of 10 to 3 Onions hasn't bowled yet. He might like these conditions.

[--------]

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I know very little about cricket, however is 425 not a completely garbage total considering Strauss hit 161 himself and the Opening pairing hit 161 and 95 respectively?

after that start should they not have been looking for 600-700?

I'm not a fan but I enjoyed (in a loose sense of the word) watching the highlights of the Cook and Strauss batting last night.

Short answer to your first question - YES.

Second question - YES.

Cook and Strauss gave England the best start imaginable - that was the highest opening partnership against Australia at Lord's EVER - and then the middle-order - Bopara, Collingwood and Pietersen were IMO guilty of throwing away that advantage. They all three were lacking in concentration - Pietersen needs to get over the loss of the captaincy and start working at his batting again - and Prior lost his wicket carelessly to say the least.

Strauss may be defending them in public, but he has to feel a little let down. 425 is a decent lead, but nothing like what it should have been.

But they've got two early Aussie wickets, including Ponting's, and they just have to settle down and make sure they don't let the Aussies off the hook.

But the Australian order doesn't often collapse....


RAIN.

[blackpoolhibs]

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RAIN.

Game for poofs, i'm sure it would get a lot more interesting if they played on through the rain. There cant be many sports were getting a little wet stops play?