Congestion charges and low emission zones

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

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https://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/roads-t...to%20%C2%A3240.

The initial penalty charge is £60.
If the penalty is not paid within 28 days, the second time that vehicle enters the LEZ within 90 days, the penalty doubles to £120.
If the vehicle enters a third time within the same 90 days, it increases to £240.
The penalty will increase to £480 for a fourth time within the same 90 days.
It will not be increased for a fifth time the vehicle enters the LEZ.

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

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Aiui, the LEZ is free if your car complies and a total no-go if it doesn't.

Also, it's not to do with climate change but local air quality.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Aiui, the LEZ is free if your car complies and a total no-go if it doesn't.

Also, it's not to do with climate change but local air quality.

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There are a lot of mitigating circumstances into why most vans and lorries on the road today are driven by dirty diesel, not to mention the "dash for diesel" campaign.

My own story is that before Covid I was doing very well and spending too much money on exotic cruises I did not foresee a global pandemic suddenly puting me out of buisness and leave me kicking myself that I did not keep some money safe for emergencies, which meant that when it came time to purchase a new van and get back in buisness I quite simply did not have enough in the bank for a petrol or electric driven van. And now all those people that listened to the "dash for deisel" campaign now find themselves hit with extortionate diesel bills and now find themselves having to convert to electric. What is next in the future? extortionate ultra electric zones because scientists suddenly found out that electric driven vehicles cause cancer?

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

There are a lot of mitigating circumstances into why most vans and lorries on the road today are driven by dirty diesel, not to mention the "dash for diesel" campaign.

My own story is that before Covid I was doing very well and spending too much money on exotic cruises I did not foresee a global pandemic suddenly puting me out of buisness and leave me kicking myself that I did not keep some money safe for emergencies, which meant that when it came time to purchase a new van and get back in buisness I quite simply did not have enough in the bank for a petrol or electric driven van. And now all those people that listened to the "dash for deisel" campaign now find themselves hit with extortionate diesel bills and now find themselves having to convert to electric. What is next in the future? extortionate ultra electric zones because scientists suddenly found out that electric driven vehicles cause cancer?

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My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

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As is my wife’s 2018 Renault Captur Diesel, in both the Bristol and Bath zones.

Her horse van (honestly we aren’t posh) isn’t though, and have to transit across Bath in a circuitous route.

J

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

My 2015 VW Golf diesel is compliant, have you checked?

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I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

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Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

As is my wife’s 2018 Renault Captur Diesel, in both the Bristol and Bath zones.

Her horse van (honestly we aren’t posh) isn’t though, and have to transit across Bath in a circuitous route.

J

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So we now have zones in Bristol and Bath? That's good to know all the different locations these things are popping up. First thing I can look forward to doing when I get home from my journies is getting on my computer and paying for all those low emission charges I might have passed through. How much is the charge per day where you are at?

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

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Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

I have not checked with the Edinburgh LEZ yet. I will hopefully have a petrol or electric vehicle by 1 June 2024 anyway. It is my mission to become "ultra" compliant. I will then be able to advertise my buisness to my customers using the exact same greenwash tactics that I so despise.
But my current vehicle is not compliant with London's ULEZ. However my old Diesel van was compliant with the old London emission zone, before the expansion to the circular roads. so I assume that their criteria must have became stricter since I have been away, and the totalitarian tiptoe has been at work.

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You've used the term greenwashing a lot. What do you mean by that?

As I'm not sure your meaning is how it's commonly understood (I.e. Shell announcing a tiny amount of money for renewables whilst they continue to mercilessly increase their oil and gas exploration).

I am not financially in a position to buy a new van and there is no dispensation for businesses …I just will have to stop accepting events in Central Edinburgh come June next year.

I get your frustration but whether it deals with the climate issue or not the fact is there are too many vehicles on the road at the moment and the only way people will begin to leave the car/van at home is if it becomes too expensive to justify not taking public transport. I love driving and my car but every street is clogged with vehicles now and I really think it's got worse since the pandemic, which I feel was a wasted opportunity to reset some of the bad habits we had prior.

These LEZ's may be a money making opportunity but they are a policy with a good intention, anyway if you think that's bad just wait until you need to pay £500 just to park at your work.

I’d prefer it if the upgraded it for a full congestion charge. Edinburgh can and should move away from cars for everything. And local government needs new funding badly but can’t put up council tax. Get it done.
They should charge more for larger heavier vehicles which cause more congestion and damage roads more as well.
Btw, would hurt me, I use the car way more than I should.


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Originally Posted by neil7908

You've used the term greenwashing a lot. What do you mean by that?

As I'm not sure your meaning is how it's commonly understood (I.e. Shell announcing a tiny amount of money for renewables whilst they continue to mercilessly increase their oil and gas exploration).

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I’d prefer it if the upgraded it for a full congestion charge. Edinburgh can and should move away from cars for everything. And local government needs new funding badly but can’t put up council tax. Get it done.
They should charge more for larger heavier vehicles which cause more congestion and damage roads more as well.
Btw, would hurt me, I use the car way more than I should.


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But it is not going to stop larger heavier vehicles from using the road. Removals companies are still going to be going in and out of the area. Goods are still going to get delivered to all the shops and supermarkets. People are still going to want their ebay items and antiques delivering to their doorsteps. The council knows this already, they have London to use as an example as all this has been in place in London for years now, and London is still a congested and polluted hellhole. The fact is, if you're a buisness you're just supposed to put the fees on to the customer. That is the very person that voted it in. This is why I am of the opinion that it is just a money making scheme.

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

As I run my own buisness in the long distance courier trade the current state of affairs regarding greenwashing is becoming very concerning for me. Don't get me wrong, I am not a climate change denialist, even though I believe that the climate has been changing for billions of years already with or without our help, but I dare say that dirty diesel is polluting. Too many cars on the road is also very congesting, I agree. However it is my belief that currently the climate change crisis is being exploited for greenwashing and money making opportunity. Driving around Britain is very soon going to become a very expensive buisness indeed.

I believe that the £15 daily congestion charge in London is an absolutely shocking amount to charge. However on top of the congestion charge London now has the ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zone) which is another £15 on top of the congestion charge, bringing the grand total to £30 per day to drive in London. Transport for London must be absolutely raking it in.

I recently took my eye off the ball, and received a £60 fine for failing to pay for the Bradford low emissions zone, or congestion zone (can't remember which). Truth is I never noticed the signs and did not even know that I was in a low emissions zone, and even if I did, there are that many low emissions zones and ultra low emissions zones and congestion charge zones splashing up around Britain nowadays that it is becoming confusing trying to remember all those different zones I may have passed through on my journies as a long distance courier.

I am now very unhappy that the people of Edinburgh have voted in the Edinburgh low emissions zone (LEZ) starting on 1 June 2024.

I just wonder how much the Edinburgh LEZ is going to be. I must admit that in most other cities their charges are usually nowhere near as shocking as that of London. But as I already said, driving around Britain is about to become a very expensive buisness, especially for sole traders that may enter several different towns and cities per day.

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' The people of Edinburgh ' is rather over egging the custard. Councillors voted for this, not the people.

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Originally Posted by pollution

' The people of Edinburgh ' is rather over egging the custard. Councillors voted for this, not the people.

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That's also true actually. I am also from Edinburgh and I do not recall getting a vote on this matter.

The people of Edinburgh didn't vote for this directly. They did however give Labour (propped up by the tories), the opportunity to implement it through the local council elections.

Vote for London parties, get London policies.

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Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

The people of Edinburgh didn't vote for this directly. They did however give Labour (propped up by the tories), the opportunity to implement it through the local council elections.

Vote for London parties, get London policies.

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It's a snp/labour policy backed by the greens, apposed by the tories

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

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Thanks but that's really just reiterating what I've said above. How do you think LEZs are greenwashing based on this definition?

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Originally Posted by neil7908

Thanks but that's really just reiterating what I've said above. How do you think LEZs are greenwashing based on this definition?

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One reason would be that they are selling their dream of a green environment to their voters. But I am pretty sure that Sadiq Khan and Boris Johnson never got on their bikes whilst traveling into the City of Westminster, which is where ironically Transport for London is based, slap bang in the middle of the congestion zone. If they were truly environmentally friendly would they not at least place the headquarters somewhere in the outskirts of Greater London so that we do not have to breath in their Rolls Royce fumes?

P.S

Whilst I am from Edinburgh, and live in Edinburgh, my buisness is partly based in London, so apologies for using the term "we".

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

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I'm in Glasgow just now and my 2014 Renault captur isn't compliant.

I noticed signs warning I was entering but thought it was 2024 that it started being enforced.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I'm in Glasgow just now and my 2014 Renault captur isn't compliant.

I noticed signs warning I was entering but thought it was 2024 that it started being enforced.

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This is another thing I have issues with. How do they just expect "everyone" in Britain to automatically know where all those different zones are? And why do they expect drivers to be paying attention to every single road sign they pass at the same time as keeping their eyes on the road in busy traffic and looking out for pedestrians and other cars?

I had this out with Transport for London a way back in 2016 when I first began operating. It was my first time in London and I had no idea what their big red letter C meant, so I just carried on. Anyway, I spent a total of five days in London and returned to Edinburgh to be met with "five" £60 fines for failing to pay the daily congestion charge. I did make a representation stating my argument, and I paid "one" £60 fine and told them under the circumstances that I think that should be enough, and in future my "auto-account" will pay for my future charges. Transport for London refused my offer and so it went to court. They argued that the congestion charge was well publicised by media and that it is my responsibility to know these things. I argued back, what if I do not have a television and do not read newspapers? And I argued that a person from Edinburgh "should not" automatically know what is going on in London. To be fair, the court did drop one of the charges, but still ordered me to pay the other three. I seeked legal advice and I was advised that they cannot send bailiffs from England to Scotland, and that it would cost them more to take me to court in Scotland than any court is going to order me to pay, so it is likely in the event that I did not pay they would simply drop the case. Well, they have five years to make a case, and we are now at seven years, so the advice I got seems like it was right.

I do however abide by the law, and I do pay my congestion charges and have an auto-account with Transport for London. However I am going to require a lot of auto-accounts with a lot of different councils pretty soon. OMG

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

One reason would be that they are selling their dream of a green environment to their voters. But I am pretty sure that Sadiq Khan and Boris Johnson never got on their bikes whilst traveling into the City of Westminster, which is where ironically Transport for London is based, slap bang in the middle of the congestion zone. If they were truly environmentally friendly would they not at least place the headquarters somewhere in the outskirts of Greater London so that we do not have to breath in their Rolls Royce fumes?

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Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

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Well, maybe Boris was genuine then.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

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Glasgow’s does come in this year, that’s right


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Originally Posted by Edina Street

Well, maybe Boris was genuine then.

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I'd doubt it. Is he doing it as regular now? If so it's no a good advert for the benefits of cycling, as he's still bigger than the beatles

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

This is another thing I have issues with. How do they just expect "everyone" in Britain to automatically know where all those different zones are? And why do they expect drivers to be paying attention to every single road sign they pass at the same time as keeping their eyes on the road in busy traffic and looking out for pedestrians and other cars?

I had this out with Transport for London a way back in 2016 when I first began operating. It was my first time in London and I had no idea what their big red letter C meant, so I just carried on. Anyway, I spent a total of five days in London and returned to Edinburgh to be met with "five" £60 fines for failing to pay the daily congestion charge. I did make a representation stating my argument, and I paid "one" £60 fine and told them under the circumstances that I think that should be enough, and in future my "auto-account" will pay for my future charges. Transport for London refused my offer and so it went to court. They argued that the congestion charge was well publicised by media and that it is my responsibility to know these things. I argued back, what if I do not have a television and do not read newspapers? And I argued that a person from Edinburgh "should not" automatically know what is going on in London. To be fair, the court did drop one of the charges, but still ordered me to pay the other three. I seeked legal advice and I was advised that they cannot send bailiffs from England to Scotland, and that it would cost them more to take me to court in Scotland than any court is going to order me to pay, so it is likely in the event that I did not pay they would simply drop the case. Well, they have five years to make a case, and we are now at seven years, so the advice I got seems like it was right.

I do however abide by the law, and I do pay my congestion charges and have an auto-account with Transport for London. However I am going to require a lot of auto-accounts with a lot of different councils pretty soon. OMG

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That last bit about auto accounts is a really good one... surely they should be considering a single payment facility to cover all areas?..... or 2/3 if they need to.split it by council areas e.g COSLA councils under one umbrella.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Dunno if I've picked you up wrong, but Boris was actually a massive advocate of cycling and was always biking in to City Hall (whilst Mayor of London) and the Palace of Westminster, so much so that it was a nightmare for his security detail

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For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Glasgow's comes in this year I believe, if you're ever through there?

For all the Scottish ones (Aberdeen, Dundee, Weedge and Edina) it's:

Euro 4 for petrol cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from 2006*)
Euro 6 for diesel cars and vans (generally vehicles registered from September 2015*)
Euro VI for buses, coaches and HGVs (generally vehicles registered from January 2013*)

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I assume there's a significant variation in the emission outputs of the engines before/after those cut off points?

Diesel cars, and buses/HGVs, have a surprisingly recent year attributed to them.

A general wondering in case you/anyone knows- I'm not blaming you personally for the cut-off points incase it's coming across that way.

There are interest free loans available for used electric vehicles.

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/gra...-vehicle-loan/

You can even charge them easily at home if you have a charge point linked to your solar panels!

I appreciate that electric might not work well for the OP because of the distances involved.

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Originally Posted by ErinGoBraghHFC

Glasgow’s does come in this year, that’s right


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1st June, residents get to 1st June 2024

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Originally Posted by Ged

There are interest free loans available for used electric vehicles.

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/gra...-vehicle-loan/

You can even charge them easily at home if you have a charge point linked to your solar panels!

I appreciate that electric might not work well for the OP because of the distances involved.

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Thanks for that link. That might come in handy for me in the near future. However I suspect you're right, I might have to wait until scientists have improved the distances of how far electric vehicles can travel.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

I assume there's a significant variation in the emission outputs of the engines before/after those cut off points?

Diesel cars, and buses/HGVs, have a surprisingly recent year attributed to them.

A general wondering in case you/anyone knows- I'm not blaming you personally for the cut-off points incase it's coming across that way.

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IT's NO MA FAULT! :grr:


Tables here - https://dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php#stds

For diesel cars the big difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6 is NOx (nitric oxide + nitrogen dioxide) which gets cut from 0.18g/km to 0.08.



From - https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...gen-oxides-nox

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Nitrogen oxides (NOx) are a group of gases that are mainly formed during the combustion of fossil fuels. The dominant portion of these gases is nitric oxide (NO). However, NO can react with other gases in the atmosphere to form nitrogen dioxide (NO2) which is harmful to health. These reactions take place very quickly and are reversible, so the two gases are referred to together as NOx.

In the most recent annual air quality assessment (for 2020), the UK was non-compliant with the limit value placed on the annual mean NO2 concentration at a small number of roadside locations in urban areas. A large reduction in road traffic activity in 2020 following the onset of the Covid-19 pandemic contributed to a substantial reduction in average roadside NO2 concentrations in 2020 compared to previous years. It has been estimated that on average 68 per cent of roadside NOx concentrations originated from road transport emissions in 2020.

Short-term exposure to concentrations of NO2 can cause inflammation of the airways and increase susceptibility to respiratory infections and to allergens. NO2 can exacerbate the symptoms of those already suffering from lung or heart conditions. In addition, NOx can cause changes to the environment. Deposition of Nitrogen to the environment both directly as a gas (dry deposition) and in precipitation (wet deposition) can change soil chemistry and affect biodiversity in sensitive habitats.

Nitrogen oxides are also precursors for the formation of ozone. Ozone is a gas which is also damaging to human health and can trigger inflammation of the respiratory tract, eyes, nose and throat as well as asthma attacks. Moreover, ozone can have adverse effects on the environment through oxidative damage to vegetation including crops.

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.

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Indeed. Here he is providing invaluable input to the discussions at COP26 in Glasgow.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaWoQveW...pg&name=medium

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

For all the flak he gets (justifiably so in many cases) the guy is an environmentalist and was responsible for some good policies in that area.

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If the inside chatter of political gossip is true, it's Carrie Antoinette that's the environmentalist and he does what he's telt. tbh, I doubt he has an actual principled position on anything other than his own aggrandisement.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

IT's NO MA FAULT! :grr:


Tables here - https://dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php#stds

For diesel cars the big difference between Euro 5 and Euro 6 is NOx (nitric oxide + nitrogen dioxide) which gets cut from 0.18g/km to 0.08.



From - https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...gen-oxides-nox

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Thanks. :aok:

Quite a significant jump in the numbers for a petrol motor between euro 3 and 4!

I'm not sure how many pre-05 cars are still going about right enough.

Maybe the Edinburgh Council need to take note regarding what is currently going on in London. A gang named the Blade Runners have disabled 81% of ULEZ cameras in South London. Every single YouTube video regarding the Blade Runners has almost 100% support from the people in the comment sections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3uOCzblpQk

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

Maybe the Edinburgh Council need to take note regarding what is currently going on in London. A gang named the Blade Runners have disabled 81% of ULEZ cameras in South London. Every single YouTube video regarding the Blade Runners has almost 100% support from the people in the comment sections.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3uOCzblpQk

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Take note and do what? Draft in a whole lot more polis?

Some people just want a world without rules. And they are all idiots.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Some people just want a world without rules. And they are all idiots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Yeah, idiots are tearing down the cameras, whilst smart London traders are getting the train upto Scotland, buying a ULEZ compliant car in Scotland for £13,000, then driving it down the A1 and M1 and selling it for £15,000 in London that evening. I actually know a Londoner that is making a lot of money doing this. But he says that it will not go on forever. I should imagine the closer we come to June in Edinburgh, the more it will cost to purchase a compliant vehicle in our area, and we may even have a few smart traders that make a lot of money out of this simply by travelling to other areas where compliant vehicles are not in such high demand.

I am not sure I am 100% impressed with this though. There must be something wrong when wideboys are able to get rich quick out of council by-laws. Sounds like a cash cow to me.

My 2005 car was showing as non compliant on the Scottish site (but complaint in all English cities apart from Birmingham and Bristol) so I queried it with them as the NOx value on the V5 is 0.004 which is well below what it needs to be compliant. They replied 25 days later with a generic response that didn’t answer any of my questions.

I was aware from reading car forums that some of the English cities use the same database as Scotland so I sent the same enquiry to them and the next day received a response saying they agreed with me and had updated the database.

Not only did this fix the non complaint status in Birmingham and Bristol but the car is now also showing as compliant in Scotland.

It’s a good result but also ridiculous that I had to go to these lengths, many people won’t have a clue about NOx and just go ahead and scrap or sell a perfectly good car.

Maybe a catalyst. 1 in 5 new cars in August fully electric

https://www.businessgreen.com/news/4...ugust-electric

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hibee

My 2005 car was showing as non compliant on the Scottish site (but complaint in all English cities apart from Birmingham and Bristol) so I queried it with them as the NOx value on the V5 is 0.004 which is well below what it needs to be compliant. They replied 25 days later with a generic response that didn’t answer any of my questions.

I was aware from reading car forums that some of the English cities use the same database as Scotland so I sent the same enquiry to them and the next day received a response saying they agreed with me and had updated the database.

Not only did this fix the non complaint status in Birmingham and Bristol but the car is now also showing as compliant in Scotland.

It’s a good result but also ridiculous that I had to go to these lengths, many people won’t have a clue about NOx and just go ahead and scrap or sell a perfectly good car.

---

I just checked my other car, a 2002 convertible Peugeot , which was noted previously as non compliant for ULEZ now has a compliant tick on it.

Thanks for your investigation efforts.

I had to pay one charge for the Villa game. Total pain as Google Maps didn't recognise ULEZ as a toll and saving 5 mins cost me £8. In a city like Birmingham which has lots of roundabouts, dual carraigeways etc combined with having no idea where I was going it was probably inevitable that I got caught. Quite annoying when I had no intention to go in and that £8 was 100 miles of journey on teh way down doing 75mpg. The city centre in Birmingham was a complete ghost town so I suppose the charges are in some way a success but I can't see how a city centre can function with so few people in it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wookie70

I had to pay one charge for the Villa game. Total pain as Google Maps didn't recognise ULEZ as a toll and saving 5 mins cost me £8. In a city like Birmingham which has lots of roundabouts, dual carraigeways etc combined with having no idea where I was going it was probably inevitable that I got caught. Quite annoying when I had no intention to go in and that £8 was 100 miles of journey on teh way down doing 75mpg. The city centre in Birmingham was a complete ghost town so I suppose the charges are in some way a success but I can't see how a city centre can function with so few people in it.

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As these changes bed in and cars leave the city centre, people will start to return in ever greater numbers. It happened in all the other countries it’s been done in. We are not special, it will happen here too.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

As these changes bed in and cars leave the city centre, people will start to return in ever greater numbers. It happened in all the other countries it’s been done in. We are not special, it will happen here too.


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Something else that will happen here to, like what is happening in London right now, is that the LEZ will be expanded to cover the whole of Edinburgh, and the requirements for compliance will become stricter and stricter.

The people of Greater London are currently up in arms about the expansion of the ULEZ being spread out across the Suburbs all the way to the M25, and are taking to the streets.

They were ok with it when it was just Central London however, just like we currently are.

Am I correct in thinking that we’re euro4 for petrol and euro6 for diesel in Edinburgh but London is Euro6 across the board?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

Am I correct in thinking that we’re euro4 for petrol and euro6 for diesel in Edinburgh but London is Euro6 across the board?

---

• The ULEZ standards are:

• Euro 3 for motorcycles, mopeds, motorised tricycles and quadricycles (L category)
• Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles.
• Euro 6 (NOx and PM) for diesel cars, vans and minibuses and other specialist vehicles.

That only tells half the story though:

Upto £400 per day for Lorries.

Also, it is untrue that you get 24 hours for your £400, as it operates from midnight. This puts lorries into "real" trouble, as a lot of them importing and exporting goods in and out of London do so late at night, as getting in and out of London during peak times before their tachographs expire is not always possible, so Lorries could actually face up to £800 for one single trip. Perhaps we have overestimated how rich haulage firms are, because many haulage firms are already taking a huge risk by not paying the charges, and instead going to court, and it is either win in court, or their haulage firm will need to close.

This is also true for cars. They advertise £12.50 per day. But this is only for day shift workers. For nightshift workers, such as NHS workers, it is actually £25 per day.

Sadiq Khan says that NHS night workers should use the tube. However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads. And also, pretty young women walking the streets past midnight is a no no!

If they had any common sense they would allow a person 24hrs from the moment they enter the zone.
In fact, if they had any common sense, they would have launched a Grandfather scheme in 2015, whereby everyone would be allowed to drive their cars for as long as they wish, but when they decide to change their car, they must change it to a compliant car. If they had done this, most Londoners would have a compliant car by now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

Sadiq Khan says that NHS night workers should use the tube. However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads.

---

As the protagonists on Twitter et al say, Citation needed! I'd be quite surprised that the tube gives off more pollution than roads per passenger/mile.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

And also, pretty young women walking the streets past midnight is a no no!

---

Huh! Only pretty women get raped or all NHS night workers are pretty young women? I'm sure you didn't mean it to come across that way?!?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

As the protagonists on Twitter et al say, Citation needed! I'd be quite surprised that the tube gives off more pollution than roads per passenger/mile.



Huh! Only pretty women get raped or all NHS night workers are pretty young women? I'm sure you didn't mean it to come across that way?!?

---

A Scientific study reported that the pollution in tube stations is 18 times worse than above ground.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/enviro...ir-london-tfl/

ULEZ protesters are arguing that it is farsical that Sadiq Khan is advising Londoners to get out of their cars and take the tube.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edina Street

A Scientific study reported that the pollution in tube stations is 18 times worse than above ground.
https://www.bigissue.com/news/enviro...ir-london-tfl/

ULEZ protesters are arguing that it is farsical that Sadiq Khan is advising Londoners to get out of their cars and take the tube.

---

Where the pollution coming from?
I thought the UG was all electric?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Where the pollution coming from?
I thought the UG was all electric?

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Dust. The tube is still the most environmentally friendly way to travel in London though. Not perfect but still better. And irreplaceable anyway. There is not enough road space for the cars it would take to replace it.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

• most Londoners would have a compliant car by now.

---

According to everything I've heard they do, around 90% of cars in London are compliant.

https://www.transportxtra.com/public...-data-reveals/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Dust. The tube is still the most environmentally friendly way to travel in London though. Not perfect but still better. And irreplaceable anyway. There is not enough road space for the cars it would take to replace it.


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Ah... I do remember it being dusty right enough!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

However the London tube gives off more pollution than the roads.

---

Oh really?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

[/LIST]

According to everything I've heard they do, around 90% of cars in London are compliant.

https://www.transportxtra.com/public...-data-reveals/

---

You could be correct. But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant Range-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people, and they did so alone, not surrounded by armed security. So it sounds like Sadiq Khan himself is worried that he may have made some enemies that have resources which stretch beyond that of those in the lowest uncompliant 10%. The level of security he is currently employing would suggest he fears that he could have made enemies that can afford guns, or even afford to pay for assassinations.

Also a lot of the voices campaigning against the ULEZ are high profile people that also have complaint cars. It seems that a lot of the protesters are not necessarily part of the 10%, but are just up in arms about the fact that we appear to live in a "I'm ok Jack, society". They appear to be arguing that it is unfair to do this to the 10% that may be poor.

Other arguments are that it is just sending pollution to areas outside of London, and congesting and pollluting surrounding areas and roads which is just outright inconsiderate. Many of the protesters are also from those areas. Not themselves uncompliant.

However, the 10% claim is just a claim made by Sadiq Khan. Nigel Farage has claimed that this is another one of his lies. Farage claimed that in the first day of the expansion almost 40% of cars were found to be uncompliant.

Here is an example of a Hotel owner with a compliant car whom is against ULEZ.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lISP1U4u-ko&lc=Ugw0a-a5WGFlrwrUtmV4AaABAg.9uGyCU5JbQ19uHeQF1Lckr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

You could be correct. But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant land-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people.

Also a lot of the voices campaigning against the ULEZ are high profile people that also have complaint cars. It seems that a lot of the protesters are not necessarily part of the 10%, but are just up in arms about the fact that we appear to live in a "I'm ok Jack, society". They appear to be arguing that it is unfair to do this to the 10% that may be poor.

Other arguments are that it is just sending pollution to areas outside of London, and congesting and pollluting surrounding areas and roads which is just outright inconsiderate. Many of the protesters are also from those areas. Not themselves uncompliant.

However, the 10% claim is just a claim made by Sadiq Khan. Nigel Farage has claimed that this is another one of his lies. Farage claimed that in the first day of the expansion almost 40% of cars were found to be uncompliant.

---

The poorest in society suffer the most from pollution in cities.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-storie...%20is%20better.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The poorest in society suffer the most from pollution in cities.

https://www.unep.org/news-and-storie...%20is%20better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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True, so why is he not banning Petrol and Diesel vehicles completely all over London? Why is it ok to pollute so long as you pay £12.50? (Or £400 if you are a 40 tonne lorry). Why is it ok to pollute and just have less Asthma sufferers rather than no Asthma sufferers?

Like other ULEZ campaigners in London, I personally either want to see a grandfather scheme put in place, or a complete ban on Petrol and Diesel vehicles. We all dance and go down together for the betterment of society at large. But the 90% don't appear to like this idea. What i don't want to see is anyone make Billions of pounds out of allowing people to die.

At least in Scotland it is a £60 fine which only increases every time you enter the zone, so that pretty much is as good as a blanket ban on non compliant vehicles, and they can't be accused of it just being a cash-cow, and it does not really effect me that much anymore as I have enough money saved up to buy a compliant van without even requiring finance. This was my initial main gripe with the LEZ in the first place, I feared that it would force me to have to turn my back on my philosophy of responsible living, which is to always stay out of debt, and pay everything upfront. Fortunately after a good year and no cruises, I am now in that position where I can afford a compliant van and remain out of the clutches of bankers and lenders having anything over me.

However I will watch this page with interest over the next few years and see if people from Edinburgh and Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen, are as happy when they first hear that the council are planning to extend the zone over the entire city with stricter regulations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

But then I don't know why Sadiq Khan has purchased three armoured and bullet proof compliant Range-rovers, and paid armed security officers to sit in the passenger seats. This is not the usual behaviour for a London Mayor. It has been pointed out that even Boris Johnson used to commute on the tube and public services quite often, as do a lot of other high profile people, and they did so alone, not surrounded by armed security.

---

Complete mystery to me why Johnson, a white racist, didn't receive death threats from white racists. :dunno:

Khan has been using a armoured car for 4 years it's provided by police. Boris used the same one. Its nothing to do with would be Robin Hood super assassin groups, that's just Facebook facts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lan...d-19927900.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...nge-Rover.html

I don't like that this policy effect overwhelmingly poorer people. I'd like a fairer grant like the 7.5k for heatpumps, so people could replace their cars. I'm all for green policies and would go further with banning cars at certain times in the city

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Complete mystery to me why Johnson, a white racist, didn't receive death threats from white racists. :dunno:

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Don't believe GB news rehashes. Khan didn't buy a car it's a police vehicle, boris used one too. Daily Mail tried it too saying the bullet proof car Khan has been provided will be exempt from charges. They don't mention that's because it meets omission standards to be exempt

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12447855/amp/Sadiq-Khan-wont-pay-ULEZ-charge-London-mayors-taxpayer-funded-luxury-2020-Range-Rover-exempt-12-50-day-fee.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Oh really?

---

I am not a Scientist, I am just getting my information from the hundreds of YouTube videos currently available on the internet during this period when the topic is hottest.

According to this researcher here, air pollution went from 2.3 at ground level, to 313.50 at underground level.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/84vXwaNO5qY

Does this mean that Electric vehicles might not be as healthy as we think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Don't believe GB news rehashes. Khan didn't buy a car it's a police vehicle, boris used one too. Daily Mail tried it too saying the bullet proof car Khan has been provided will be exempt from charges. They don't mention that's because it meets omission standards to be exempt

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...0-day-fee.html

---

Khan's been receiving death threats throughout his time as Mayor. Nothing to do with Ulez. I guess it's to do with what football team he supports, something like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Khan's been receiving death threats throughout his time as Mayor. Nothing to do with Ulez. I guess it's to do with what football team he supports, something like that.

---

I'm sure he has but as you say nowt to do with ULEZ and boris also used the same vehicle anyway

Sadiq Khan spent an insane amount of taxpayers money to get his favourite Science institution to file a report on car pollution. The report he received suited his agenda. However another department of the same institution tested this theory, and came to the conclusion that in actual fact the ULEZ scheme would be useless. Sadiq Khan tried to bribe the institution with yet more insane amounts of taxpayers money to change the wording, but the institution refused. So what did Sadiq Khan do? He tore up the report from the Scientists of this institution that said the ULEZ scheme would not save lives, and proceeded with the debunked report from the same institution which said the ULEZ would save lives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POTfXLsfn-c

Now whether or not the Scientists of this institution are correct or incorrect is not my point. My point is that the Scientific institution which Sadiq Khan is using as proof of his cause, do not actually share the views Sadiq Khan is citing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Khan's been receiving death threats throughout his time as Mayor. Nothing to do with Ulez. I guess it's to do with what football team he supports, something like that.

---

Maybe it is because some believe him to be a racist? Such as recently when a picture of a White family appeared on his Website under the headline, "White people do not represent Londoners".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O-Wjz_JrHc

Talk TV, GB news? [emoji849] This where we are going now?


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Talk TV, GB news? [emoji849] This where we are going now?

---

Concrete's in the news. It's only natural that Mike Graham's being consulted for his expertise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Talk TV, GB news? [emoji849] This where we are going now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I'd believe the readings from my tea leaves before that lot.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Talk TV, GB news? [emoji849] This where we are going now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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It has all been written in MSM. But those are in written form.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2396312.html

"I know nothing"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSkSuukO6SU

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

It has all been written in MSM. But those are in written form.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2396312.html

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I can't quite see what is the main point you're making in this thread.
Is it that (a) cars don't pollute (b) old cars don't pollute more than new cars (c) Khan is corrupt (d) if two scientists disagree one of them is corrupt?

Don't get 'the poorest people suffer the most from ULEZ' argument as the poorest people don't have cars.

Farage and The Daily Telegraph are full of ****.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Khan has been using a armoured car for 4 years it's provided by police. Boris used the same one. Its nothing to do with would be Robin Hood super assassin groups, that's just Facebook facts
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lan...d-19927900.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dai...nge-Rover.html

I don't like that this policy effect overwhelmingly poorer people. I'd like a fairer grant like the 7.5k for heatpumps, so people could replace their cars. I'm all for green policies and would go further with banning cars at certain times in the city

---

The UK government stopped the ev grants, but you can get an interest free loan in Scotland.


https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/used-electric-vehicle-loan/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Don't get 'the poorest people suffer the most from ULEZ' argument as the poorest people don't have cars.

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I think the point is the poor people who don’t have cars and can’t afford to live in the nice clean Ulez zones pay with their lives and die early, if you read the linked unep article it’s not really about the UK.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

I can't quite see what is the main point you're making in this thread.
Is it that (a) cars don't pollute (b) old cars don't pollute more than new cars (c) Khan is corrupt (d) if two scientists disagree one of them is corrupt?

Don't get 'the poorest people suffer the most from ULEZ' argument as the poorest people don't have cars.

Farage and The Daily Telegraph are full of ****.

---

I am not making any point. I never form concrete opinions and am always changing my opinions with every new bit of information. I am simply sharing what I am reading or watching, and all sides of the argument should be considered.

I think I might be bordering upon opposing the current ULEZ schemes however, especially the one in London. I am more supportive of the Scottish ones as those are not cash grabs, however I am looking forward to seeing how much consensus changes in Scotland should our councils decide to expand the schemes city wide any time in the next few years.

I doubt citizens in Muirhouse, Niddrie, Wester Hailes, Pilton, Drylaw would be quite so happy to wake up tomorrow to find out it is £60 to turn their ignition key on, as those in the City Centre appear to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hibee

I think the point is the poor people who don’t have cars and can’t afford to live in the nice clean Ulez zones pay with their lives and die early, if you read the linked article it’s not really about the UK.

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Yes I get that, I'm objecting to the idea that ULEZ charging is unfair on the poorest people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lapsedhibee

Yes I get that, I'm objecting to the idea that ULEZ charging is unfair on the poorest people.

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Our poorest people are currently living in hotels such as the once posh Almond House Lodge in Silverknowes. The Firth of Forth is their back garden and Silverknowes beach their place for recreation. Car pollution does not exist here.
https://theferret.scot/meet-the-peop...eless-hostels/

Even illegal immigrants are getting put up in four star hotels.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-taxpayer.html

Could you afford to live by the beach in a four or five star hotel?

Also, how much pollution does Essex, Sussex, Surrey, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Kent, get compared to Central London? Because all those areas out in the sticks, as Ronnie and Reggie would have referred to them as being, are also effected by the ULEZ expansion.

It takes not much research whatsoever to conclude that the local residents of those areas are arguing "but we don't have pollution out here".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edina Street

Our poorest people are currently living in hotels such as the once posh Almond House Lodge in Silverknowes. The Firth of Forth is their back garden and Silverknowes beach their place for recreation. Car pollution does not exist here.
https://theferret.scot/meet-the-peop...eless-hostels/

Even illegal immigrants are getting put up in four star hotels.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-taxpayer.html

Could you afford to live by the beach in a four or five star hotel?

Also, how much pollution does Essex, Sussex, Surrey, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hertfordshire, Kent, get compared to Central London? Because all those areas out in the sticks, as Ronnie and Reggie would have referred to them as being, are also effected by the ULEZ expansion.

It takes not much research whatsoever to conclude that the local residents of those areas are arguing "but we don't have pollution out here".

---

Almond house 4 or 5 star?[emoji23]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

Could you afford to live by the beach in a four or five star hotel?

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No. But I was so envious of what I read in your link about the Almond House Lodge that I'm now planning on going to France, which I could afford, crossing the channel in a small boat and claiming asylum. If I see Farage on the beach should I give him your regards?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

The UK government stopped the ev grants, but you can get an interest free loan in Scotland.


https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/used-electric-vehicle-loan/

---

It's disproportionately the poorest 20% that have the old non compliant cars. 20% of the uk are living in poverty. They will be finding it hard to heat and eat right now. A 5 figure loan for a used car is a dream to most, even if they passed the credit check. Its a great deal for us that are very fortunate to be able to afford to buy a car in this climate

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

It's disproportionately the poorest 20% that have the old non compliant cars. 20% of the uk are living in poverty. They will be finding it hard to heat and eat right now. A 5 figure loan for a used car is a dream to most, even if they passed the credit check. Its a great deal for us that are very fortunate to be able to afford to buy a car in this climate

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Exactly! That is my point. It is not all about how fortunate we are, but what about those less fortunate than us!

With the amount of Haulage firms not paying their ULEZ charges in London just now, and instead taking their chances in court, which will mean bankrupcy for them should they lose their court cases, how on earth is London going to get their imports and exports? I assume that Sadiq Khan must have already thought of this? There obviously must be some International Giant Haulage Corporation ready to step in and replace the local Hauliers with fleets of compliant lorries with Green coloured trees sketched on the sides. I just hope this corporation's name is something less cheesy than Deliveroo.

Apparently Eddie Stobart is also up in arms, with many haulage firms threatening strike action.
https://motortransport.co.uk/blog/20...-backs-london/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edina Street

I am not a Scientist, I am just getting my information from the hundreds of YouTube videos currently available on the internet during this period when the topic is hottest.

According to this researcher here, air pollution went from 2.3 at ground level, to 313.50 at underground level.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/84vXwaNO5qY

Does this mean that Electric vehicles might not be as healthy as we think?

---

I'm not a scientist either but without studying the University of YouTube, I'd take a stab in the dark and say that there is more air pollution in the underground because pollutants and fine particles are heavier than air and with the help of gravity they will effectively be sucked into the underground which is a confined space and thus increasing the pollution density.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edina Street

With the amount of Haulage firms not paying their ULEZ charges in London just now, and instead taking their chances in court, which will mean bankrupcy for them should they lose their court cases, how on earth is London going to get their imports and exports? I assume that Sadiq Khan must have already thought of this? There obviously must be some International Giant Haulage Corporation ready to step in and replace the local Hauliers with fleets of compliant lorries with Green coloured trees sketched on the sides. I just hope this corporation's name is something less cheesy than Deliveroo.

Apparently Eddie Stobart is also up in arms, with many haulage firms threatening strike action.
https://motortransport.co.uk/blog/20...-backs-london/

---

https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products/attributes/electrification.html?cid=sep-487151&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qoaCYd7A3Ebkbvmw-15CSNP44mYH2MeIFEr0QKpZNkk2TEBgK7S3QaAiLOEALw_wcB


https://forms.mbtrucks.co.uk/request-a-callback-eactros?mtm_campaign=eActros%20PPC%20campaign&mtm_ source=PPC&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_me dium=ppc&utm_term=electric%20lorry&hsa_kw=electric %20lorry&hsa_tgt=kwd-343903183165&hsa_ver=3&hsa_grp=149198683631&hsa_mt =p&hsa_ad=657682519602&hsa_acc=8086597668&hsa_cam= 19721794463&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_src=g&gclid=Cj0KCQ jwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qOJoZxYBUbAH5asqQlJAizcuf-1Ld6pv-sLvQe8DUl6WM9K234xlQaAn2HEALw_wcB



https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-65812980.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUA KwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=1694016510 6254&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com


It's almost like someone has already thought of it 😂

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

https://www.scania.com/uk/en/home/products/attributes/electrification.html?cid=sep-487151&gclid=Cj0KCQjwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qoaCYd7A3Ebkbvmw-15CSNP44mYH2MeIFEr0QKpZNkk2TEBgK7S3QaAiLOEALw_wcB


https://forms.mbtrucks.co.uk/request-a-callback-eactros?mtm_campaign=eActros%20PPC%20campaign&mtm_ source=PPC&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_me dium=ppc&utm_term=electric%20lorry&hsa_kw=electric %20lorry&hsa_tgt=kwd-343903183165&hsa_ver=3&hsa_grp=149198683631&hsa_mt =p&hsa_ad=657682519602&hsa_acc=8086597668&hsa_cam= 19721794463&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_src=g&gclid=Cj0KCQ jwxuCnBhDLARIsAB-cq1qOJoZxYBUbAH5asqQlJAizcuf-1Ld6pv-sLvQe8DUl6WM9K234xlQaAn2HEALw_wcB



https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-65812980.amp?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUA KwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=1694016510 6254&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com


It's almost like someone has already thought of it 😂

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First one says 150 mile range with a 65t load. Not there yet.

I'd do what other cities that have banned cars are doing. Haulage hubs on outskirts then transported by electric cargo bikes, this could be replicated with electric van if allowing green vehicles though

Let's face it, we're ****ed. If people get their "facts" from Talk TV, GB News and unverified YouTube videos, we might as well all pack up and go home.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Let's face it, we're ****ed. If people get their "facts" from Talk TV, GB News and unverified YouTube videos, we might as well all pack up and go home.

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The problem is with making sweeping statements against platforms as a whole, is it is hard to gather which claims you're denying. Are you denying "all" the claims?

Are you denying that five councils in Greater London took Sadiq Khan to court, and since Sadiq Khan won the court case, the five councils have refused Sadiq Khan permission to erect ULEZ signs up in their areas, leading to a loophole that drivers can exploit?

If citizens of Greater London are happy with the ULEZ expansion, then why are their councils fighting tooth and nail against Sadiq Khan? This is also Main stream news.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

The problem is with making sweeping statements against platforms as a whole, is it is hard to gather which claims you're denying. Are you denying "all" the claims?

Are you denying that five councils in Greater London took Sadiq Khan to court, and since Sadiq Khan won the court case, the five councils have refused Sadiq Khan permission to erect ULEZ signs up in their areas, leading to a loophole that drivers can exploit?

If citizens of Greater London are happy with the ULEZ expansion, then why are their councils fighting tooth and nail against Sadiq Khan? This is also Main stream news.

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Think for yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grunt

Let's face it, we're ****ed. If people get their "facts" from Talk TV, GB News and unverified YouTube videos, we might as well all pack up and go home.

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To be fair it was the University of YouTube graduates that kept us right during the pandemic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

The problem is with making sweeping statements against platforms as a whole, is it is hard to gather which claims you're denying. Are you denying "all" the claims?

Are you denying that five councils in Greater London took Sadiq Khan to court, and since Sadiq Khan won the court case, the five councils have refused Sadiq Khan permission to erect ULEZ signs up in their areas, leading to a loophole that drivers can exploit?

If citizens of Greater London are happy with the ULEZ expansion, then why are their councils fighting tooth and nail against Sadiq Khan? This is also Main stream news.

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I'll trust platforms or not based on my own critical faculties, which tells me not to trust GB News, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express ever and to take Talk TVs output with a huge pinch of salt, given its run by The Sun newspaper, owned by one of the most corrosive personalities in history.

This is now a wedge issue being pushed by those platforms as a way to push people towards voting Tory.

I understand the inconveniences caused but doing nothing also creates inconveniences directly towards th3 people whose health suffers through pollution and the small fact that the whole planet could be ****** if nothing is done.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news...oogle_vignette


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https://x.com/redfieldwilton/status/...dxJXScFNwz8V4A


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Brussels low traffic city centre plan has tremendous results

https://www.eltis.org/in-brief/news/...-more-bicycles

One year Good Move in Brussels city: 25% less car-traffic and 36% more bicycles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Brussels low traffic city centre plan has tremendous results

https://www.eltis.org/in-brief/news/...-more-bicycles

One year Good Move in Brussels city: 25% less car-traffic and 36% more bicycles

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Yeh, but that could never work here.[emoji849]


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kato

I'll trust platforms or not based on my own critical faculties, which tells me not to trust GB News, the Daily Mail, the Daily Express ever and to take Talk TVs output with a huge pinch of salt, given its run by The Sun newspaper, owned by one of the most corrosive personalities in history.

This is now a wedge issue being pushed by those platforms as a way to push people towards voting Tory.

I understand the inconveniences caused but doing nothing also creates inconveniences directly towards th3 people whose health suffers through pollution and the small fact that the whole planet could be ****** if nothing is done.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

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I have largely removed myself from this argument as it was something I was beginning to get over passionate about and it was taking up to much of my time. Also by some sheer coincidence the engine on my polluting van packed in just a few days ago which has forced me to replace it with a compliant van anyway, so the issue no longer effects me. Therefore I totally respect your right to be choosy about what sources you respect.

However it would be a bit hypocritical of me to just suddenly abandon the ULEZ campaigners that only days ago had my fully pledged support. So now that I have a compliant van, I will end this with declaring my support to the PetrolHeads who are a group of compliant vehicle owners whom recently had a protest driving through London in their highly polluting vehicles on behalf of ULEZ protesters. Their message was to draw awareness to all the expensive and highly polluting vehicles that Sadiq Khan says is ok to drive in London. Those vehicles include Lamborghinis, Bentley's and a whole host of other vehicles which spew out a lot more pollution than your average non compliant car, including a monster truck.

Apologies that the source for this protest comes only from BrownCarGuy. I assume though that the protest is still genuinely true and did in fact happen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JM1zqs2rIk&t=498s

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

I have largely removed myself from this argument as it was something I was beginning to get over passionate about and it was taking up to much of my time. Also by some sheer coincidence the engine on my polluting van packed in just a few days ago which has forced me to replace it with a compliant van anyway, so the issue no longer effects me. Therefore I totally respect your right to be choosy about what sources you respect.

However it would be a bit hypocritical of me to just suddenly abandon the ULEZ campaigners that only days ago had my fully pledged support. So now that I have a compliant van, I will end this with declaring my support to the PetrolHeads who are a group of compliant vehicle owners whom recently had a protest driving through London in their highly polluting vehicles on behalf of ULEZ protesters. Their message was to draw awareness to all the expensive and highly polluting vehicles that Sadiq Khan says is ok to drive in London. Those vehicles include Lamborghinis, Bentley's and a whole host of other vehicles which spew out a lot more pollution than your average non compliant car, including a monster truck.

Apologies that the source for this protest comes only from BrownCarGuy. I assume though that the protest is still genuinely true and did in fact happen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JM1zqs2rIk&t=498s

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Where is your evidence regards to the level of emissions of the vehicles you mentioned?

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Where is your evidence regards to the level of emissions of the vehicles you mentioned?

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I don't know.

I have decided to take up the topic on a Science Forum as opposed to a Football Forum.

If I can get enough Science minded people to reply to the thread I created then I might bring up this topic with them and let you know their opinion.
https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/...cience-or-not/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Edina Street

I don't know.

I have decided to take up the topic on a Science Forum as opposed to a Football Forum.

If I can get enough Science minded people to reply to the thread I created then I might bring up this topic with them and let you know their opinion.
https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/...cience-or-not/

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Well, thanks, but no thanks. I do my own research, and don't rely on populism.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Well, thanks, but no thanks. I do my own research, and don't rely on populism.

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Interesting. Feel free to present the findings of your own research. Or don't, if you don't want to.