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Has anyone on here got experience with the benefits of solar panels and batteries etc..?
Reason I'm asking, is we had someone out to price up a job for us. 10 Panels and a 6kwh (I think) battery, which comes in around £11,500. Now the energy saving trust are offering £11,000 in an interest free loan, which is repayable over 10 years, so £92 a month.
What I'm trying to figure out, is will my bills drop by enough to cover that £92 a month, or am I going to have to cover the difference somewhere?
I’ve got my system booked in already so will be keeping a keen eye on this!
I had solar panels on my previous house. From memory it was about £400/£500 a year we got from it.
Does having those solar panels add value to your house going forward? Worth keeping that in mind as you're doing the calculations.
What's the shelf life of a solar panel?
The panels should last about 20 years, the batteries will go before the panels.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
I thought they were supposed to go on the roof?Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
The guy selling us it tried to tell us it added £20,000! It looks likely that it will probably add some value, but more like £2,500.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
Most of the companies selling them come across as charlatans just seem to spout a load of guff to get the sale.
Absolutely, that's why I was asking. The salesman was trying to tell me that they would pay themselves off in about 4 years! Which considering my electricity is only estimated to come to about £1,600 a year seems highly unlikely, unless I cover my entire electricity needs and managed to export about £400 back to the grid.Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
My project hasn't been completed yet but I'd recommend RB Grant, who are Fife based but cover the whole country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onceinawhile
No hard sell, no bull **** and very transparent.
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
I had 9 south facing solar panels on a previous home, we never got anything like that from it. Admittedly it was a few years ago, but I'm pretty certain it was about £500 a year we got from them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onceinawhile
They were there when we bought the home so it was just a nice wee bonus, I'd be wary of paying silly money to have them put on my home to be honest.
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
The good thing is that it's an interest free 10 year loan, so even if it only covers £50 a month, we aren't that much worse off.
Just shows you how much nonsense people are willing to state to get a sale though.
What size were the panels. The new ones are much more capable than the early ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
The other thing to bear in mind is that having the battery should mean you get more benefit than solar panels alone – it means you should be able to use all of the energy the panels yourself. Without the battery, excess energy generated during the day is sold to your supplier/the grid (rather than being stored for use in the evening). Obviously your supplier buys the excess energy from you for significantly less than it would charge you.
I've no idea if that makes the extra cost of the battery worthwhile in your case, but it's another variable in comparisons with other folk's existing solar panels.
Thats what I've done, got a 5.2 kw battery going in so hopefully our electricity use from the grid will drop off a cliff.Quote:
Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
Our system will send power to the house to power anything thats on, charge the battery, heat water and then finally when all of the other areas are covered it sells back to the grid. Our installer is pretty certain 4kw panels with the 5.2kw battery will be fine for a family of 4.
Even without panels a battery makes some sense
Let's say your standard tariff is 35p kw but if you are on octopus go you get 7p kw overnight
Charge your battery full during nightime and use it during the day
That's saving 28p kw or making your peak elec usage only 7p kw
If used to its max
5kw x 365 days is 1825kw
28p x 1825kw = £511 saved per annum
Obviously the bigger the gap between the day and night rate the more you will have 'saved'
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There have been issues when it comes to selling your house as some of the loans were secured against people's property. Check the small print.
Depends on your usage, system size, what direction your panels face etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onceinawhile
I'm in Haddington. I've got a 7 panel 1.9kWp system on my south facing roof which generates around 1,750kWh per year. If I was using all of those units (I don't have a battery so I don't) I'd be saving around £595 / year.
Assuming your system is around the 3kW mark, and you're in a similar part of Scotland, with a south facing roof you may expect to generate around 2,800kWh / year saving you around £896 a year. (This is a ballpark estimation, and using the 1 October electricity cap at 32p/unit - if electricity prices goes up again, your savings increase / payback period decreases).
Did you get someone to put them in?Quote:
Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby
If so, who, and would you recommend them?
Is that a new house in Haddington? I am moving soon to a new house in Haddington with solar panelsQuote:
Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby
Have you looked at the cost of batteries for your house? If you have what was the cost?
Came with the house. Forster were the subcontractor - had worked with them in my previous job to get solar on the roof of the office building and they did a good job there. That was back in 2018.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
It is a new house. Haven't looked into batteries yet, but thinking about it. Would look to double size of my system first if getting a battery - don't know how easy it is given the panels are recessed into roof rather than mounted to the roof.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbhibby
Really frustrating the builders don't give you the option to increase the size of system at construction. Would have taken that as an option and paid for larger system.
Depending on space its easyQuote:
Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby
Really expensive if you want them all recessed but you can add in on roof panels
Likley they will run off there own inverter etc but it's no massive issue
I've certainly had a few quotes and while they limit space as the builders for some reason centralise the recessed panels it won't stop you adding some in
We are probaly going to add 4 more panels to the back off the house (on roof above the recessed panels we have) plus 6 on the front (east west facing house)
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How many in total will that give you Callum and do you feel it's a big disadvantage being East/West? From what I'm reading it seems I'd need double that of a South facing roof to catch both the morning then afternoon sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
Mines look like the same type that you have. Need to do a bit of number crunching to see if it would be worthwhile to add more, don't understand why the builders don't supply the full package including storage facilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby
Volume house builders will always do the minimum required.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbhibby
I used to work within the planning department of a local authority and 10 or 12 years ago I was calling for solar panels to be a requirement for all new buildings.
Notice some builders also putting in heat pumps as well. Both these should be a requirement in any new builds now,don't understand why this has not been made law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Think it becomes law soon in developments over a certain amount of houses.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbhibby
We move into a small development in January doesn’t have proper panels but the smaller ones? Think it for the hot water.
A friend has a heat pump in a Cala house wishes he still had a boiler lots of issues and very expensive to maintain.
Heat pumps hopeless when the weather gets colder in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
I've a friend who has installed them in the past and he says some of them are good ways not to save money!Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsnoteasy
Doesn't do it anymore so the current versions might be better.
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That will give me about a 6kw system (11 panels on the west roof and 6 on the east roof)Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bee
"apparently" East/west loses about 20 percent over a true south facing roof
Based on my usage and rates I'd make my money back in about 6.5 years
East / west isn't perfect but its not a deal breaker at all from what I understand it
West roof is slighter better than East
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You realise that a heat pump is like a fridge in reverse!Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsnoteasy
With an air-to-water heat pump system, heat energy warms water for your hot water cylinder and radiators. Traditional central heating systems use a boiler to warm water and radiators, often using high temperatures. Air-to-water heat pumps are more energy efficiency at lower temperatures. They therefore offer slower heat release over more extended periods; perfect for underfloor heating and larger radiators
For anyone thinking about the Home Energy Scotland interest free loan, it has to be a recommended improvement on an Energy Performance Certificate for you to be eligible. The £11,000 figure is made up of £5,000 for the Solar PV and £6,000 for the battery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onceinawhile
There are differing opinions on whether the battery is actually worth it. If you have an electric car it might be better to use the excess electricity produced to charge that.
If you go for Solar Thermal, which is water heating, the loan is £5,000 but there's £3,750 cashback available so you only pay back £1,250. Because this is for water heating only you can't add a battery to this set up.
Heat Pumps are very efficient but you have to have your house fully insulated to get the benefit, so that's loft, walls and underfloor insulation, double glazing, draughtproofing, the lot. There is funding available for most of that but it's still going to be a bit of an outlay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsnoteasy
Funding for the heat pumps is quite good though. You can get a £10,000 interest free loan over 10 years and there's £7,500 cashback available so you're only paying back £2,500. Again, it has to be a recommendation on an EPC before you're eligible for the loan and you have to carry out any insulation measures on the EPC to get the heat pump loan. That's going to eat into the £7,500 you might think you're saving!
That isn't quite true about the EPC recommendation
It either needs to be recommended on the EPC or on a home energy selector report sent by home energy Scotland
Hardly any epc recommendeds solar or battery so most(incl myself) need the 2nd option
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Which bit about the EPC is untrue?
I mean if it does not recommend it on the EPC that isn't the end of itQuote:
Originally Posted by Ged
Most EPCs don't recommend panels or battery storage
In which case you need an energy selector report provided from Home energy Scotland to attach to your loan application
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Well I'm pleased to say that my system has been up and running for a week now.
Having some peaks and troughs in production, 17.9kw being the record so far, lowest day being 5kw.
Cannot fault the guys at R B Grants for their services.
Ended up going for a 4.9 PV system with a 6.5 kw battery and inverter made by Growatt.
Also got an iBoost system which turns excess generation in to hot water by controlling the immersion heater on your hot water storage tank.
Do you have a south facing roof? My roof faces east/west so not sure how efficient that would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
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Next door has them, the space underneath them has become a permanent home for pigeons! A right pain in the erse.
That should be netted off so they can’t get in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
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I'm the same and I believe that there's a 20% reduction in efficiency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Well they aren’t, they were installed several years ago, the pigeons are a recently new resident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Sounds like poor maintenance from your neighbour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
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That doesn’t sound too bad. Maybe a 6 year payback instead of 5?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Motivation for me would be environmental but to get it approved by my wife it will need to be financially worthwhile.
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Get a loan with Home Energy Scotland and pay back £70 a month for 11 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If anyone is interested in a quote let me know. I work in electrical wholesale and will look after you and work with you and one of my customers who is MCS registered.
PM me.
They bought the house with the panels in place and don’t seem to be bothered about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I have a south facing roof with 4 panels and a west facing roof with 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The big pay-off is after the loan is paid back. But my fag packet maths on the system so far means we wont lose any money, and in the summer with the new tarriff on Octopus (flux) we will hopefully start to actually make money. Once we get to the 10 year (or earlier - you can pay back the HES loan whenever you want) stage it will start to pay real dividends financially.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Aside from Solar, do you have any dealings with air source heat pumps? I'm looking to do this in the next couple of years. I know the tech is getting better all the time and the other half (who's a building services mech eng) is pushing to get a pump installed but I'm baulking at the install upheaval. The install of wet underfloor heating is quite off-putting to me just now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian Verse
Do you know for sure that you need underfloor heating? The internet is full of "certainties" about heat pumps – for example I read online (and was told by a plumber) that microbore pipework ruled out a heat pump and you'd have to replace it all. Guess what – our house is now heated by an air-source heat pump using our existing radiators complete with microbore pipes.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales
There is useful information out there if you can wade through the nonsense, but ultimately every house is different and the work that you do or don't need comes down to the heat-loss calculation for each room. Best thing you can do is contact some companies for quotes and find one that will do the heat-loss calculation up front for a small (or zero) fee. (Some will ask for big deposits etc before they do that.)
Thanks for the info. I haven't personally waded through all the information that's available. My wife is the engineer and she does heat loss calcs for her job. Our house is an older house and although we've added a lot of insulation to the attic space, it could still be better. Our floor area is above average too, so if we didn't go down the underfloor heating route, we'd have to get much larger than average radiator panels.Quote:
Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
To be honest, we've still got a year or two before we pull the trigger, mainly due to the need to save up for it as she reckons it could cost £10-15K at the moment.
Microbore can certainly be made to work for heat pumps, but it requires a bit more design work and calculations to ensure it is correct. It may also require additional radiators added to a room to make it work (but you may have this with traditional pipework as well depending on the size of the radiators).Quote:
Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish
I would say it would be unusual for someone to find your situation where all the pipework and existing radiators were adequate to heat the house with a heat pump rather than a boiler. Having said that, it does happen especially if the initial calculations were done "rule of thumb" by a plumber or were done by an engineer who allowed plenty of leeway in their calculations. As a former design engineer it was pretty common for radiators to be 50% - 60% oversized for the space once allowances were made for the errors in calculations and then taking the next available size up to be on the safe side....
To answer a previous point, underfloor heating is not a requirement for air source heat pumps, but it does mean the efficiency of the system can be maximised. The main downside of using existing radiators and pipework is that as the heat pump is at its most efficient at lower temperatures, the radiators may not be able to put out enough heat to heat the room. You can compensate for this by increasing the temperature of the heat pump, but this leads to a drop in efficiency. Heat pump technology is developing all the time though and a lot of the modern heat pumps are really efficient even at 50 - 60 degrees rather than the 35 - 40 degrees of a few years ago.
In a new build I would definitely say that using underfloor heating with a heat pump would be a wise choice, the additional costs of underfloor heating installations are able to be swallowed up in the house build a bit and it does offer a nicer more comfortable heat in the house. However in a retrofit, I don't know that I would be going for underfloor heating, the cost and upheaval of it would be pretty significant when you could (worst case) just replace some radiators with larger ones or add an additional radiator or two to get the heat pump to work.
We've got an ASHP on our house (no mains gas up here) and have had no issues with it, but we are a new build with excellent insulation and underfloor heating throughout. Where people have had issues with heat pumps is where they have put them into old houses with radiators which were too small, potentially a heat pump that was too small and haven't improved the insulation levels of the house before fitting it. They then find that the heat pump is running at full load and higher temperatures for long periods just to try to keep the house warm and the bills start racking up.
Yeah, I'm sure our situation is a little unusual and it would be more common to have to replace a few radiators with double-thickness ones. However my point was just that we could easily have been put off altogether by someone we thought had some degree of expertise – the plumber I mentioned didn't do any calculations or similar, he was working on something unrelated and I mentioned in passing that we were considering a heat pump. He said it was impossible with our pipework – no caveats, nothing about changing radiators, just "you won't be able to have a heat pump."Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio sledge
I have an east-west roof.
10 panels and a 6kw battery.
Since installation on 22 January, we've generated 342.7kw/h. Of that 203.8kwh has been this month.
Our current daily record is c19kwh.
I'd imagine in the April - October time, we won't need to draw from the grid and will probably sell a relatively decent amount back. But the October - March time, we've probably about 1/2d our consumption.
Apparently we've reduced our CO2 by 381Kgs as well. So that's nice.
Gary Does Solar is an excellent Youtube channel that covers a lot of the usual questions in excellent detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8d1iqnhuek&t=1s
The above is a video about the new tariff from Octopus called Flux which is custom made for Solar Panels owners.
I’m interested in air source heat pumps. Does anyone have any recommended companies to speak to ?
Really seeing the benefit now the weather is getting better
We have the electric car that we exclusively charge at home
Our electricity bill for the last month was £38 (£15 of which is the standing charge!)
Considering that it covers the car 'petrol' and our house is really pretty good
Its meaning the panels and battery are probably paying for themselves just about
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That's amazing. How long till they have paid for themselves if you don't mind me asking, Callum?Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
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I think based on current usage was about 6 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Kato
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ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
That's not bad actually.
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Currently having a bit of trouble with our panels, data isn’t being reported accurately via our apps (ShinePhone, Growatt) so we have no idea what we’re actually producing.
The installers were meant to be out on Friday but were a no show so heck knows.
How do you know it isn't being accurately reported? What's the giveaway?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Our system has come into it's own the last few weeks, over 500kwh in May and already over 100kwh in June, so at 40p per kwh that's roughly a £40 saving in just the last 4.5 days.
The app we have isn’t reading the same as the master version of the app out installer is using.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onceinawhile
That and our export reading with octopus has exceeded the production of the whole system on certain days.
Overall the system is definitely working well, but I just want to get a read on how well!
Ahhh ok, I get you. Mind you if Octopus are paying you for more KWH that you've exported than you've produced, I'd see that as a win!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
It's still officially winter and I've only paid for electricity 19 days this year and even then just a fraction of what I'd normally use. I'm currently producing nearly 4 times as much power than I use, my storage is normally full by 11:00 and the rest is fed into the grid. I was pleasantly surprised at how efficient the modern photovoltaic panels are. The storage I have can save 11.28kWh and the car charging system works both ways, so I can use the car battery to power the house too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
Even at 56.7 degrees north I'm selling excess energy to the grid. Battery gets charged overnight at my cheap rate and lasts me all day, solar being used during the day and the Battery once the sun goes down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
With the sun we've had we're producing over 20kw per day. That's heating our water, charging the battery and covering usage through the day while I work from home, and any excess is being exported to the grid.
Working out at around £2 per day of exported energy while not paying for anything through the day.
Going to trial force export between 4pm and 5pm to catch the higher rate for exporting, so right now we are exporting 5kw to the grid.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...acc25792d8.png
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The money to be made is definitely not there anymore, it's money saved that makes photovoltaic systems worthwhile. I only get 8 cents per kilowatt that I feed into the grid but it costs me on average about 36 cents per kilowatt drawn from the net, however the systems are now so efficient that it's very rare that I have to buy electricity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I've had mine about 6 weeks and the saving is amazing when it's bright. I pay 9p over night and 29p during the day. Sell to the grid at 15p.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
What's foreseen to be the break even term?
i.e how long is it envisaged it will take to recoup the costs ?
I think it can vary depending on your house orientation etc but I think it was around 10-12 years. Less if you get a favourable Octopus tariff though (although it's dependant upon them not pulling that tariff over the time period).Quote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
If you're interested you can get someone to come to your house and do a no obligation quote and answer all your questions. :aok:
Edit: just checked the quote I got, it says 14 years but with the intention of being c.half if I'd changed tariff.
That was for additional panels (I already have some) and a battery - £6,700 purchase price.
19 panels and 11kw battery quoted in December as 9.5 years, but that's going to drop as prices increase. Had mine for about 6 weeks and the reduced cost is astonishing. Most of my grid use is overnight at 9p and selling to the grid at 15pQuote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
Decent explanation of the solar 'duck curve':Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYLzss58CLs
In my case, it's about 12 years. I was just about to get my system fitted for free with the company fitting it taking profit from what was fed into the grid, but I changed my mind at the last minute and bought the system outright. My main reason for fitting the system were environmental, however now I've bought the system, it adds the amount I've paid to the value of my property which in that aspect makes the break even point immediate.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
On Sunday I was 90% self powered. 45% solar, 45% battery and 10%grid.
Mines will be 10 years, give or take. I borrowed £10k from the Government loan scheme which is paid back at £80 per month, once thats paid off after year 10 then we will really start to see it pay for itself but what it's saving us day-to-day is making a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by BSEJVT
We had about £400 sitting in our Octopus account which we decided to withdraw, saw over the winter we ran up a bit of a deficit which, if we can have it paid off by the end of the summer I'll be quite happy with that.
It's going to depend on the year. My first year was 2023, which was good for production. Last year was not great, and I started working from home full time so energy usage increased through the day and the weather being so dull meant that through the day I was covering my usage but not a lot more, so that was countered by charging the battery overnight on the cheaper rate.
I think if you really dial in when you do things like washing clothes and dishes you could reduce that term slightly.
The last 3 or 4 weeks has been great for my system, regularly generating 25-30kw per day, exporting when the rate is more beneficial between 4 and 5:30, but then getting the battery filled before the sun goes away.
I try not to get too hung up on when the system will pay for itself and focus more on the day-to-day and what it saves us now. Yesterday for example we imported £1.37 of electricity, but exported £2.60.
Just to add to this, most panels are 25 year warranty now with some 30. Make sure you ask for the panel datasheets so you can check this yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian Verse
My panels are 30.
The only concern I really have around the system is the battery, it's got an 8 year warranty and 10,000 life cycles. I do worry slightly that forcing export during the peak payment hours will shorten it's lifespan and that the money we generate from doing so will come nowhere near to paying for a new one.
In theory the panels could cycle through 3 batteries - probably at a reduced capacity by the end of their lifetime, but the batteries are expensive.
Which manufacturers battery is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
Growatt, 6kw battery and one of my inverters is also Growatt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian Verse
Ok if Hibs.net is still around when your battery goes drop me a PM I'll sort you out with a proper trade price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
:aok: really appreciate that mate, you're in the trade I take it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernian Verse
If so, I was wondering if you're in a position of doing a system review? I've got some issues I need some professional input on and I don't trust the original installers, their service was great but they've sorted a problem in a way I don't think was ideal.
Send me a PM if it's something you think you could do, cheers.