Ron is on a mission to take the club to the next level...
https://twitter.com/HibernianFC/status/1441427464580841476?s=20
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Ron is on a mission to take the club to the next level...
https://twitter.com/HibernianFC/status/1441427464580841476?s=20
Is he, aye? I'm not coming back until we have a 100% record across all competitions and beat Hearts 50-0.
Seriously though, good news.
Don’t think you’ll find many Approved electricians, plumbers or “skilled” handymen willing to work for £24k a year though.
From what I’ve seen and am hearing Saul, the model is very much on brand growth and as much investment in the team as possible. Admittedly - and it’s a concern for some - other areas are not going to be as invested in as per previous levels. He’s very focused on building the global Hibs brand (and Scottish football) which is great. I was a wee bit concerned at hearing recently about not investing as much in the pitch/playing surface. He’s already made changes to stadium staff and infrastructure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman
That said, I’m excited that money is going to JR and it looks like Ron is fully focused on the first team and developing talent - I think we’ll see more players from untapped markets in the Americas too. It’s a no nonsense, high enthusiasm approach.
That video content role sounds like three or four entirely different jobs merged into one, I can't imagine anyone experienced going for it at the rate they're offering...
Yeah, I have to say I wouldn't be getting out of bed in the morning for the salaries they're offering for any of those roles - and I wouldn't consider myself to be especially highly paid.
In particular, given how in demand tradespeople are at present, you'd wonder how much interest they'll have for the tradespeople roles they're advertising. Maybe they're hoping that supporters will sacrifice a percentage of their potential earnings in return for the opportunity to work for the club.
If those roles are full time the salaries are dreadful. Looks like it is trying to run the club on the cheap rather than it growing.
As I posted, I think the full focus is the first team and really pushing that. That’s where the money lies in football, from sales and transfers. Build the brand, develop and sell players, more for transfers and salaries - money will trickle down to non football roles if the model works. Covid aside, since he took over, you can’t argue the football side of things is working - highest league position, most away wins, finals and semi finals, players with value and interest from down south - the ‘cuts’ are in non football areas so the product on the pitch is better. Ultimately that’s what fans care about, not an electrician salary - exploitative ? Maybe - but sport and football are fickle.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
I’m nervous and excited in equal proportions- but his intentions are good and to make a really really good side.
We are also a club that prides itself on the community outlook we have. I'd want everyone within our own Hibernian Community to be remunerated properly for the work they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by truehibernian
I think mixing the club's community outlook & the salaries it pays is pushing it a bit - we're not talking about minimum wage here.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
If people don't want to apply for the jobs they don't have to. If the club don't get the standard of candidates that it's looking for then they'll have to review the offers.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Seriously confused at those salaries.
Absolutely. The negativity on this thread is incredible versus what Ron Gordon actually says. I’m an auld git but I love the positivity Gordon is bringing to the club and the proof of the pudding is in the signings, the improved contracts and the stadium improvements. Long may it continue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
I’m not negative, love the outlook, just very conscious that you can’t ignore the infrastructure of any business. That’s my only worry about Ron. He’s come from an American focused outlook which is fine - all for growing Hibs and income. But proper investment is also required in non football areas. That’s what moves the whole machine forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee
That's what he's doing though, investing in non football areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by truehibernian
Ron's wanting plumbers, electricians, skilled tradesmen ?? That screams Flats to me, those pesky maroon balloons were right all along!! Muppets
I don't think it is pushing it. In fact it feels like they are hoping to get Hibees to work on the cheap just for the kudos of working for the club they love. There is leaning on the community and also trying to take advantage. Ron is an American businessman so perhaps it is to do with how they recruit there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
The going rate for a spark looks to be around £30K and that comes with a van etc in most cases. We are offering 20% less.
He’s investing in things that grow income (screens, additional advertising etc) - all good 👍Quote:
Originally Posted by Allez Hibs
I’m talking about other areas - what I heard about (lack of) investment in the pitch is worrying to be honest. That’s an important outlay for a football club.
Without wishing to appear negative, the poster has a point re salaries being offered for non football activities. A decent spark will easily earn at least double what is on offer. Surely as a club we are wanting to entice the best whether that’s football or non football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee
it’s the same with getting fans to volunteer to work at the club. Why not pay a salary for people to do the job? Maybe the people you pay will then buy tickets for the game. How can the club afford big screens but need volunteers to carry out work at the stadium?
Can the big screens play up front?Quote:
Originally Posted by truehibernian
A young lad starting out on his own getting £24k is fantastic. Nobody is expecting someone with 30+ years experience to be going for it. They’ll stick with their higher paid jobs.
Not sure why there is any concern at all, seems 100% positive to me.
Know nothing about it but presume we’ve had contractors etc up until now as I’ve never known us to have our own tradesmen? Nobody knows the hours etc, therefore the salary may well be competitive. If nobody wants them then don’t take them.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
How can there be lack of investment in the pitch?!Quote:
Originally Posted by truehibernian
Surely you pay for things when they’re needed. If it’s all good there’s nothing more to spend on?
Besides, it looks fantastic. The Hibs’ ladies goalie was saying it’s like a carpet, best she’s ever played on.
You're ignoring the points I made. You're hinting at exploitation which is definitely pushing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by wookie70
Exactly. It’s an in-house position. I can’t imagine a plumber or spark are going to be running around 40 hrs a week rushed off their feet. Be a cushty wee gig and maybe get free tickets as a perk or something!Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
These are recurring adverts tho. Not 6 months ago the club were looking for Journalists, Maintenance assistants etc. Again a lot of people commented then about the low salaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
The club would possibly be better and cheaper getting in tow with a Facilities provider and only pay on a consumption basis.
It’s like making sausages, I don’t really need to know how they go about their business but everything that’s happened since RG arrived has been positive to me. No reason to doubt him now.
Maybe he’s thought of all options and figured this is the best way to go?
The salary is not competitive in the market place for an approved 18th edition electrician. Maybe a sparks mate but not a spark worth his salt.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
The proposed investment in the playing surface - from what I’ve been told - is laughable. I’m only passing on what I know - for me, Ron is great, driving the club forward in areas so long neglected. But I just don’t want other areas being forgotten.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
He’s no nonsense - by all accounts he’s also got rid of folk who were merely topping up their pension - which is good. as they weren’t good. I still think you can’t ignore certain areas that’s all.
Yip. Maintenance tradesmen usually earn a lot less but it’s attractive for people because it is an easier gig with regular hours, steady PAYE wage as opposed to self employed everywhere else etc. I know a tradesman who works for Heriots school for way less than he could earn elsewhere but he enjoys the job and isn’t exactly rushed of his feet there.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
How much have they invested in the lighting rig that I seen on the grass on Monday when I was down?Quote:
Originally Posted by truehibernian
Or have we had that a while now?
The hours are on the advertQuote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
This is as bad as the moaning on the thread about Hibs getting volunteers in.
If you don’t like the salary…dinnae apply for the job. The salary is there. It’s quoted. A lot of jobs don’t even have a salary quoted when you apply nowadays.
Moan moan moan moan moan
My bad - never scrolled to the bottom, expected they’d be up beside the salary!Quote:
Originally Posted by Since452
There are times when a wage on offer is inarguably exploitative. £8.91 per hour, unsociable hours, zero hours contract. People will argue in that instance if you don't like the wage don't apply but a hell of a lot of people applying for a role like that are desperate and have little choice. Companies know that so get away with that kind of pish.
This situation at Hibs is far removed from that. A qualified tradesperson knows what they are worth and they know the score with a maintenance role. If they aren't willing to work for that wage they will keep on scrolling and will find something else, if they are then there is a reason why. I think Hibs will have a type of candidate in mind as well.
Electricians are currently earning roughly £20 an hour on the St James site to put it into perspective.
But an older tradesman looking for an easy number may well be happy getting less money for an easier role
How much is an unemployed person worth?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
How much is a disabled person worth?
How much is a down and out worth?
How much is a mother with three children or more worth?
How much is a refugee worth?
How much is a person worth?
What’s your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibs
An employer isn't paying someone to be disabled, a down & out, a mother of three children, a refugee or a person. The employer is paying a person to do a job, and should be paying a fair wage for the value of that job, regardless of whether the person doing it is disabled, a down & out, a mother of three children, a refugee or anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibs
Some jobs have more "worth" than others - how many care workers' salaries could be covered by the average wage of just one player at Hibs, never mind the wages on offer in the EPL?
Fairly obvious no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pagan Hibernia
Everyone seems to have a worth according to posters on here.
Merely asking what worth those at the very bottom of society have?
Seems very little indeed unless they have a skill that can be used for personal advantage over others of some sort or other imo.
It's not just posters on here. In the employment market everybody does have their worth. We could debate the rights and wrongs for days, but it doesn't change the fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibs
I’m sure someone mentioned on another thread we now had grow lamps. I’m not sure if there’s any truth in that. If it is true, surely thats an investment in the pitch. What have you been told?Quote:
Originally Posted by truehibernian
Human worth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Lots get left behind, some get ahead.
Especially those with little or no worth. left behind,
Magic eh?
The pitch looks good this early season so far? What are peoples concerns with the pitch?Quote:
Originally Posted by tamig
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
With the Dundee game moved to 14 Dec it means we've got 4 home games in 18 days, if there's a lot of rain we could be in trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
And this has something to do with Hibs hiring people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibs
What an odd thread this is.
The phonecall I got through the week regarding St James was £23 an hour then £36 for a Saturday and £46 for a Sunday so that’s the kind of figures the club are competing with at the minute. I genuinely don’t know an electrician who’d work for that salary on offer. As I said maybe an older guy or someone mortgage free or someone with loads in the bank. All the salaries are poor not just the sparky offering.Quote:
Originally Posted by NC1875
Think the difference though would be the volume of work. With Hibs it would be lots of wee odd jobs and general maintenance whereas at a big site like St James it would be tight deadlines and constant hard graft. That could be way off the mark but would imagine Hibs would be far more laid back when it comes to volume of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sean.
Even if an electrician or other tradesperson wanted that kind of job security local Councils pay £30k to £32k a year for them on permanent 37 hour a week contracts with far better leave and pension packages that Hibs are offering. The best they're likely to get here is someone starting out who will leave for something better after a short time, but maybe they're OK with that.
Classical Hibs.net thread.
A mixture of those defending the club blindly at every opportunity, and others siezing the chance to have a go.
As ever, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. On the positive side, I do agree with the OP that RG is steadily building the club without being reckless. I feel very optimistic for the future. The days of contracting out human activities are now outdated as there is no access to cheap and readily available labour. So, in looking to bring the skills in house I think RG is spot on.
However, the salary levels advertised are completely unrealistic for qualified people at a time where there is a national shortage of labour. For example, I know from experience that cleaners in the Highlands are being paid £20 an hour right now.
Tactically, I can only think we are trying to recruit from a Hibs fan base who have emotional ties to the club. That is risky of course as you won't necessarily get the best person for the job.
So positives and negatives in this announcement for me.
I know nhs only pay qualified staff a band 4 which is only up to £25k, plenty people take these jobs and want these jobs so folk with a trade cant all be earming 40k per year
Business man trying to reduce his overheads.
Shocker...
His club, he can run it his way. If you Don't like the salaries for the permanent employment he is offering then don't apply.
Sorry I've just read that someone compared the salaries to council salaries, that's a laugh. It's a private business, the same rules do not apply...
Yup you’re probably right. Was about £20 the last time I checked and they were needing more guys so the rates will have likely went up.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sean.
I’ve been trying to employ an electrician for a few months now on a better salary than the one Hibs are offering but they all want crazy money.
The thing is, sites like St James won’t last forever and they’ll all be looking for another job when it’s finished as most are agency workers.
I know Edinburgh College have or used to have a couple of older guys (one a joiner and one a spark) that were the maintenance team. Hibs salary probably comparable with that which will suit someone as it won’t be a hard job.
I'm an unskilled banker. I earn more than the skilled positions on that list.
I just can't see how people could live on them salaries in Edinburgh.
What I’m confused about is how we are able to justify a full time electricians position? A stadium and a training centre sirely doesn’t have enough work to sustain full time roles like this?
I’ve not even looked but is it maybe a part time position ? That would make the salary more appealing. 🤷🏽*♂️Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
37.5 hours per weekQuote:
Originally Posted by NC1875
Correct - these Hibs jobs are on a par with (for example) guys on salary with the University, Council or Edinburgh leisure etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by NC1875
There are people work for those organisations on salaries comparable with those Hibs ones.
Basically, guys who want a steady job / pension without the (sometimes) big stress of self employment etc. Wont suit the guys in their 20s chasing the money, but someone will want it.
One of the best plumbers I have ever met worked for Edinburgh Leisure - big Hibby as well :greengrin
Edinburgh Uni salaries then - private business...............Quote:
Originally Posted by 7Hero
We micro manage every goal we concede. (never do that with goals we score)
Now we are micro managing jobs outwith the team, whats next, who leaves the light on when they leave the bathroom, or who's using more than their fair amount of toilet paper?
Usually me after my morning cortado tbf - talking of which..................:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs
RG is trying to grow the club on and off the park. Most are happy in the direction he’s taking the club but that does not mean that no one can be critical of him. The salaries on offer for qualified trades people look on the low side and most on here believe Hibs will struggle to fill the roles or will be constantly recruiting as people move on. Fans stating this aren’t moaning they are giving an opinion on fans web forum.
Hibs get volunteers in to help with the seats and criticism that it's slave labour and we should be paying people...
Hibs advertise for a number of paid roles and criticism it's not enough money...
Hibs put a big price on Josh Doig and it's criticism it's too much money...
Glad we don't have fan ownership like our biggliest neighbours across the city 🤣😁
Disagreeing with those criticising the club doesn't mean "defending the club blindly at every opportunity". This is something that gets trotted out fairly often but it's not the case. In this instance I would disagree with them regardless of who was advertising the jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
It's like saying those who disagree with anti-vaccers are pro SG/SNP.
No electrician with his 18th, PASMA, Ipaf and testing and inspection is taking a job for 24k. I know apprentices who done a lot of overtime and made 29k in their 3rd years. An approved spark is worth a lot more. Plenty of more laid back sparking jobs would pay significantly more as well, especially in Edinburgh. The SJIB rates for an approved spark is like £17 quid an hour. Hibs are 10 grand short here.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
Pretty sure edinburgh uni recently advertised an electricians job at about 27k per yearQuote:
Originally Posted by green day
Cant see it. Can easily work 37.5 hours for a big Edinburgh electrical company for 10k more.Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
I doubt it’s intended for youngsters who are money driven though. Like I say, I haven’t a clue about it all really, just from the outside it would seem a world of difference from a high pressured project that has strict deadlines to a cooshty number at ER/EM.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
There isn't really huge pressure on those projects, though. Maybe for 2/3 of the guys who are running it, but for others its just work, you plod on, the job gets done. If its behind, weekends are offered for more cash. And then you go to the next job which could easily be a bit of jobbing for a couple of months. SJIB rates are £17 per/hour. Edinburgh domestic companies offering £18 P/H and a van. Agency offering upwards of £21. Its a poor wage from Hibs honestly. I'm a Hibby and I wouldn't take it. Not even if they actually put me through the qualifications (IPAF, PASMA etc) that they require.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibbysam
Quick search online shows hourly rates from £12 - £20 available with salaried positions ranging from £24 - £45k for electricians.
Digital sales exec roles from £18k upwards.
Sports journalist £22 - £27k
We’ve not just picked numbers out the sky.
There are journalists on much worse salaries, even in Edinburgh. And they will be working all sorts of extra unsociable hours that they won't be getting paid extra for.
Trust me, there isn't an approved electrician in Edinburgh on £12 quid an hour. Hibs aren't just wanting an electrician. They are wanting an approved one, who has a valid PASMA, IPAF, 18th and testing and inspection. Basically someone at the very top of the trade. Even big companies don't have dozens of guys like that, and they certainly aren't on £12 quid.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Nice to see another thread descend in to utter nonsense once again.
Thats right..........but as I mentioned places like council, Edin Leisure and Uni will pay less than the figures you quote, and get staff to do the jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
I am not arguing with you - we are both right.
I doubt that very much. If that was the case they’d have to be offering top dollar to get the best out there. Same as any business.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
I think we’re looking for someone that is semi-retired, like your friendly janitor at the local school, or the groundsman that helps out around the golf club for peanuts.
Take a look online yourself for salaried positions and you’ll see the same results as me.
How? It’s a decent chat. I’m learning stuff here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
Do they require the same things as Hibs do, though? How often do universities need cherry pickers? As I've said, Hibs aren't just wanting a bog standard spark fresh out their time, or some old guy. Their requirements are for guys at the very top of the game. In football terms, they're wanting top 3 quality, for bottom 3 wages.Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
I should say that I am self employed and extrapolating my hourly into a salary would make it (significantly) higher than those Hibs are advertising.
But there is a world of diff between salaried and self emp as the year of Covid proved.
Oh, and its also worth saying that.............if Hibs cant fill the vacancies with the right people on these salaries then they will need to adjust that.
Thats how the world works and its not worth getting upset about:greengrin
I'm sure Hibs will have benchmarked the salaries and not just made numbers up. I have to say though that it does seem on the low side for electricians. The electricians in my extended team earn 10k more than that for the same hours.
the 18th edition came out in 2017. So you're needing someone who has sat that course in the last 4 years. Pasma and Ipaf need to be renewed every 5 years. An approved electrician test requires a few years as a electrician then going on different courses and sitting an approved test. Testing and inspection would need to have been done since the 18th edition came out as well. So someone with fully up to date qualifications, who will work any 5 days out of 7, for less holidays and less money than the Scottish joint industry board minimum, in the capital city.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Don’t think I’ve ever both laughed and yawned at a thread so much in my life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
We are a business, not a charity. Market forces will dictate this either way be it the role being filled or the incentives enhanced.
You should probably fire this off to Hibs and save them a whole lot of time and bother. They've clearly got it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Why do so many posters on here get their knickers in a twist at the slightest thing, if folk feel that this is a salary they will work for and can live off it then fire in and apply
I'm not sure if you're taking the piss or not. I'm not trying to argue about this or kick off. Ultimately it doesn't effect me, but its well under what someone with all those things is worth. Its not even like they're offering to put the person through those things.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
No one has their knickers in a twist. It is simply a poor wage for what they want, that is all thats being pointed out. They will struggle for someone who fits their requirements IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovethehibs
Yes its getting your knickers in a twist, if you dont want to apply for the job then dont, no big deal, pretty sure they will get the position filled no problemQuote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Reads to me that you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Why do you think Hibs are offering the salary they are? You seem adamant that you're correct which means you think Hibs have got it wrong.
I'm not taking the piss. Email them and tell them they are wasting their time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovethehibs
They might fill the position, yes. Does that automatically mean they aren't paying less than average, though? My knickers aren't in a twist at all. Sorry, but clearly neither of you know anything about what Hibs are wanting here. Its not my opinion Hibs are wrong here, its a fact that guys and girls with those qualifications are on significantly more. It is a very poor offer. You can accuse me of getting bothered by this all you want, I'm really not. I'm just pointing out the facts. Which neither if you are responding to, but instead just saying my knickers are in a twist?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Im a facilities manager so believe me i know what they are wantingQuote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Fair enough. Do you know anyone with these qualifications who gets paid that amount?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovethehibs
You pick an argument with everyone else when ANYTHING doesn’t suit your opinion and then go relentlessly full throttle in an attempt to grind them down into submission so why stop here?Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Oh bore off. Or keep it on topic. Your choice. I've not done anything like you are describing. I've posted some facts about the situation. Its pretty clear to anyone who bothers to look these things up that Hibs are well underpaying for this position. Don't know why that is so hard to accept for some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee
We tend to get contractors in for working at height jobs but the other qualifications yes i do, look at what an nhs sparky needs to be qualified in to get a job and have no issues employing staffQuote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Have to say, that is mental if true. But fair enough, I cant prove you wrong. Assume they are all older guys? Cant imagine many new sparks want to work years with a bigish company, get their time out, get all the qualifications through that company and then drop back to 4th year apprentice wages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovethehibs
Who cares, is this not a freedom of choice thing unless a closed shop union job? It's Hibs business is it not, and as others have said sure they will fill the positions one way or the other, its just a sparky's job.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
:greengrin
Of course, I've already said there is a good chance they will fill it. They might need to up the wage a bit, or lower the expectations, but they'll fill it. Again, simply filling a position is different from offering the going rate for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by A Hi-Bee
Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Depends what we are calling older, we have quite a few guys under 40, gets them a fair bit of experience, they get on call money, weekends etc so adds up
Hang on. So there is overtime and on call money? So basically, they're on a lot more than 24k?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovethehibs
Good luck to anyone on here who goes for any of the jobs advertised