Since 2000 - Cup Record

I heard Liam McLeod on BBC commentary on Monday Night say our cup record is incredible in the last 20 years. I had a look and it reads as matches played:

Scottish Cup
Quarter Finals 13
Semi Finals 11
Finals 4
Wins 1

League Cup
Quarter Finals 14
Semi Finals 7
Finals 3
Wins 1

Pretty sobering as the number of Quarter Finals and Semi Finals are fairly racking up.

Are we not at a point where simply getting to Semi Finals is not enough? We have very rarely drawn the Old Firm in Semi's. Played Rangers in a League Cup Semi and Celtic twice in League Cup Semi's?

Our cup record in getting to the latter stages is very good in the last 20 years but surely getting to the point where we should be cashing in big time.

With the lottery that is Scottish football (including some “interesting” officiating performances) getting to a final requires a bit of (what’s that French word Henry uses?)

Aye. It's impressive.
But I'd say we've been Spawny Gets. Unfeasibly large ball-related luck in draws.
The 'Raer were the only League 2 club in the hat. Alloa were the best draw in the League Cup QF. We did the hat-trick last year: BSC Glesca, Caley & Gunts were all the lowest placed side we could've drawn.
I mind one year opening v. Irvine Meadow, then bottom of the league Montrose... then we got papped out by Ross Co.
We've had some other Spawny Get draws too: Bonnyrigg, Berwick. We seem to have got Ayr a couple of times in QFs of late.
We seem adept at Hun-dodging. We never seem to run into Sainties, 'Well, Killie, Livi or Caley when they've had good seasons.
I'll check some stats to amuse myself when I get bored of doing other stuff online or when I run out of blue pills.

A club of our stature in Scotland should be reaching the Quarter Final’s at the bare minimum. 7 wins in 18 semi finals and 2 wins in 7 finals isn’t brilliant IMO but I will forgive that record for that day in 2016. Going forward we are putting ourselves into a fantastic position of being consistently the 3rd best team in Scotland so hopefully we can see another couple of trophies by the end of this decade.

I can't think of many finals that 'got away' as it were.

2001, 2012 and 2013 were write offs. We really had no business even being in the final in the middle of those, were beaten before we stepped on the park in the latter and were up against a top Celtic team and our own form had tailed off badly in the former.

The other 2 losses are a bit harder to take although there is mitigation. The Livingston game was tough to take but they were a very good side at the time and a lot of the big names from our team that people quote now were raw and largely inexperienced at the time. We froze a bit on the day. It happens. The Ross County game was also tough to take but again they were a decent side, we were a lower league team at the time, we had a ridiculous schedule that season and fielded a patched up midfield and were missing our best defender.

A fair few of the semi final losses hurt more than the finals. The self implosion just before Dunfermilne, the 2 this season, Falkirk under Stubbs, Aberdeen in 2000, Ayr ****ing United and Dundee Utd under Mowbray.

Our cup record of excellent in terms of ties won and reaching the latter stages, certainly a lot better than the Hibs sides I grew up with.

I had only been to Hampden a couple of times until not that long ago, when we started playing there with a good degree of regularity.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Our cup record of excellent in terms of ties won and reaching the latter stages, certainly a lot better than the Hibs sides I grew up with.

I had only been to Hampden a couple of times until not that long ago, when we started playing there with a good degree of regularity.

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I think there’s something in that - going through to Hampden as a support gets more familiar with it the less trepidation

^^The same probably applies to the club as whole.

I know the players change, but if the club are used to going there and have a routine it’s got to help relax everyone involved.

They’re like home games for Rangers and Celtic. Would be good if can keep getting there and say the same.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Our cup record of excellent in terms of ties won and reaching the latter stages, certainly a lot better than the Hibs sides I grew up with.

I had only been to Hampden a couple of times until not that long ago, when we started playing there with a good degree of regularity.

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Agreed. I'd be interested in seeing our cup stats for the previous 20 years. I would hazard a guess at around half the appearances.

Comparison with St Johnstone who have won the same Cups since 2000, shown in brackets ....

Scottish Cup
Quarter Finals 13 65% (5) 25%
Semi Finals 11. 85% (4) 80%
Finals 4 36%. (1) 25%
Wins 1 25%. (1) 100%

League Cup
Quarter Finals 14 70% (10) 50%
Semi Finals 7 50%. (5) 50%
Finals 3 43%. (1) 20%
Wins 1 33%. (1). 100%

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Our cup record of excellent in terms of ties won and reaching the latter stages, certainly a lot better than the Hibs sides I grew up with.

I had only been to Hampden a couple of times until not that long ago, when we started playing there with a good degree of regularity.

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when cup semis were played out at neutral venues a trip to Hampden was rarer.

Getting to semis and not finals has never been enough, ever IMO.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I can't think of many finals that 'got away' as it were.

2001, 2012 and 2013 were write offs. We really had no business even being in the final in the middle of those, were beaten before we stepped on the park in the latter and were up against a top Celtic team and our own form had tailed off badly in the former.

The other 2 losses are a bit harder to take although there is mitigation. The Livingston game was tough to take but they were a very good side at the time and a lot of the big names from our team that people quote now were raw and largely inexperienced at the time. We froze a bit on the day. It happens. The Ross County game was also tough to take but again they were a decent side, we were a lower league team at the time, we had a ridiculous schedule that season and fielded a patched up midfield and were missing our best defender.

A fair few of the semi final losses hurt more than the finals. The self implosion just before Dunfermilne, the 2 this season, Falkirk under Stubbs, Aberdeen in 2000, Ayr ****ing United and Dundee Utd under Mowbray.

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I agree about some of those semis. I took a non-Hibs supporting pal to the Falkirk one and he didn't understand how they'd won it. I seem to remember us battering them throughout the game.

The Dunfy and Dundee Utd ones were frustrating, and more so when I watched the finals as Celtic didn't play well in either and I felt they were there for the taking. Add the Hearts one to that as Celtic were guff and I think we would have won (although I did a food shop instead of watching it because I thought Hearts might actually win it).

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Our cup record of excellent in terms of ties won and reaching the latter stages, certainly a lot better than the Hibs sides I grew up with.

I had only been to Hampden a couple of times until not that long ago, when we started playing there with a good degree of regularity.

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I was thinking about this earlier.

In my years watching Hibs we got to 2 finals in the 90s, 3 in the 00s and 4 in the 10s. Winning one in each decade. The number of semi finals we reach has increased incrementally in each of those decades though and we are definitely more familiar with the latter stages of Cup competitions these days.

I think the 2000 semi final v Aberdeen was the 1st time I really remember being at Hampden with Hibs. I was young in 91 though and the next final was at Celtic Park along with a couple of semis at Tynecastle and Ibrox so that maybe skews my memory a bit. I'm certainly far more familiar with the ground now.

The next step for us is arguably converting more of the semi finals into finals and then those into wins. That latter is easier said than done though. Since 2000/01 there have been 20 Scottish Cup finals. Celtic and Rangers have won 14 of those, we won one of the other 6. The League Cup has been largely similar. Since 00/01 there have been 21 finals. Celtic and Rangers have won 14 of them. We have won one of the other 7.

As I said above the biggest frustration for me has been the missed opportunities in semi finals when we have had favourable draws. I can take losing to Celtic, Rangers and strong Aberdeen and Hearts sides. The others are the ones that frustrate me.

Cup records of all clubs to have made a QF since 1999/2000:

Sellik 19 wins, 4 runners-up, 7 beaten SF, 8 beaten QF.
Huns 11 wins, 3 runners-up 9 beaten SF, 10 beaten QF.
Hibs 2 wins, 5 runners-up, 11 beaten SF, 9 beaten QF.
Gunts 2 wins, 3 runners-up, 8 beaten SF, 8 beaten QF.
Sainties 2 wins, 7 beaten SF, 7 beaten QF.
Sheep 1 win, 5 runners-up, 10 beaten SF, 10 beaten QF.
Arabs 1 win, 4 runners-up, 7 beaten SF, 15 beaten QF.
Killie 1 win, 2 runners-up, 1 beaten SF, 7 beaten QF.
Caley 1 win, 1 runners-up, 4 beaten SF, 12 beaten QF.
Livi 1 win, 1 runners-up, 3 beaten SF, 6 beaten QF.
St.Mirren 1 win, 1 runners-up, 3 beaten SF, 9 beaten QF.
Ross Co 1 win, 1 runners-up, 3 beaten QF.
'Well 4 runners-up, 3 beaten SF, 9 beaten QF.
Pars 3 runners-up, 1 beaten SF, 6 beaten QF.
Falkirk 2 runners-up, 4 beaten SF, 5 beaten QF.
Ayr 1 runners-up, 3 beaten SF, 3 beaten QF.
Dundee 1 runners-up, 2 beaten SF, 7 beaten QF.
Q.o.S. 1 runners-up, 3 beaten QF.
Gretna 1 runners-up.
Partick 1 beaten SF, 11 beaten QF.
Morton 1 beaten SF, 4 beaten QF.
Raith 1 beaten SF, 2 beaten QF.
Accies 7 beaten QF.
Alloa 2 beaten QF.
Berwick, Albion, Dumbarton, E.Fife, Brechin, Clyde, Stranraer, Forfar & Peterhead have each lost 1 QF.

Getting to the quarter finals is generally a stroll unless we are unlucky with the draw.
This season is fairly typical with only 2 SC ties in the last 16 matching up top league teams with only Inverness looking like they could overcome their top league opponents.
Next week we will be in the QF of the SC without breaking sweat.
At that point the competition begins with the likelihood that all the teams left will be from the top league. Win 3 games in a row and you have won the competition.

I've checked how jammy we've been in draws. Only gone back 10 seasons as it's hard work. The Wiki results page has a "report" icon by all the games. Sometimes this will take you to a BBC report with a table, even for some 1990s matches, but there are a lot from recent seasons that just come up as dead links or link to a Sky report with no table. So I've had to dig out programmes.

In 10 SF draws we've pulled the lowest placed team 5 times, the middle team 3 times and Celtic twice.

In draws before SFs we've got the "easiest" opponent according to the tables 11 times and the "hardest" 5 times.
That includes 15 QF draws. In those we've got the lowest placed of 7 possible opponents 5 times and the highest 3 times.

Breakdown round by round.
Last 32 of SC the ranking of our opponents out of 31 at the time of the draw has gone:
22 - 8 - 8 - 19 - 16 - 31 - 7 - 28 - 12 - 17.

Last 16 of the SC, obviously out of 15, it's been:
7 - 3 - 9 - 13 - 2 - 4 - 13 - 15 - 15.

SC QFs, out of 7:
7 - 3 - 7 - 4 - 6 - 1 - 7.

SC SFs, out of 3:
3 - 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 3.

That's a fairly spawny sequence of draws.

League Cup hasn't been quite so jammy. The early draws have always been seeded in the 10 seasons I've looked at, so the number of potential opponents is halved.

We came in at round one only once. We were seeded, obviously. Of the 15 possible opponents we drew the 15th - Montrose, who'd just survived their relegation playoff v. Brora.

Seeded in all round 2 appearances, so diddy teams guaranteed. 11 possible opponents. We went 10 - 6 - 1 - 5. The #1 was Dumbarton.

Last 16 was always seeded. Sometimes we were seeded, sometimes not. Either way there were only 8 possible balls. We've gone:
3 - 8 - 7 - 1 - 5 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4.
The #1 was the Sheep, who opened with 8 straight wins that season.

LC QFs is a straight draw, 7 possible opponents:
1 - 6 - 1 - 6 - 7 - 3 - 4 - 7.
One of the #1s was the Arabs, who started with 6 wins, a draw & a 6-1 tanking by Celtic to top the league after 8 games. The other #1 was Celtic.

LC SFs. The only round we've not had much luck:
2 - 1 - 1 - 3.

Overall, we've been unusually lucky.

*Edit: Note - Opponents' positions given are at the time of the draw, not the time of the tie.

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Originally Posted by Perfectly Loud

I've checked how jammy we've been in draws. Only gone back 10 seasons as it's hard work. The Wiki results page has a "report" icon by all the games. Sometimes this will take you to a BBC report with a table, even for some 1990s matches, but there are a lot from recent seasons that just come up as dead links or link to a Sky report with no table. So I've had to dig out programmes.

In 10 SF draws we've pulled the lowest placed team 5 times, the middle team 3 times and Celtic twice.

In draws before SFs we've got the "easiest" opponent according to the tables 11 times and the "hardest" 5 times.
That includes 15 QF draws. In those we've got the lowest placed of 7 possible opponents 5 times and the highest 3 times.

Breakdown round by round.
Last 32 of SC the ranking of our opponents out of 31 at the time of the draw has gone:
22 - 8 - 8 - 19 - 16 - 31 - 7 - 28 - 12 - 17.

Last 16 of the SC, obviously out of 15, it's been:
7 - 3 - 9 - 13 - 2 - 4 - 13 - 15 - 15.

SC QFs, out of 7:
7 - 3 - 7 - 4 - 6 - 1 - 7.

SC SFs, out of 3:
3 - 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 3.

That's a fairly spawny sequence of draws.

League Cup hasn't been quite so jammy. The early draws have always been seeded in the 10 seasons I've looked at, so the number of potential opponents is halved.

We came in at round one only once. We were seeded, obviously. Of the 15 possible opponents we drew the 15th - Montrose, who'd just survived their relegation playoff v. Brora.

Seeded in all round 2 appearances, so diddy teams guaranteed. 11 possible opponents. We went 10 - 6 - 1 - 5. The #1 was Dumbarton.

Last 16 was always seeded. Sometimes we were seeded, sometimes not. Either way there were only 8 possible balls. We've gone:
3 - 8 - 7 - 1 - 5 - 8 - 6 - 5 - 4.
The #1 was the Sheep, who opened with 8 straight wins that season.

LC QFs is a straight draw, 7 possible opponents:
1 - 6 - 1 - 6 - 7 - 3 - 4 - 7.
One of the #1s was the Arabs, who started with 6 wins, a draw & a 6-1 tanking by Celtic to top the league after 8 games. The other #1 was Celtic.

LC SFs. The only round we've not had much luck:
2 - 1 - 1 - 3.

Overall, we've been unusually lucky.

*Edit: Note - Opponents' positions given are at the time of the draw, not the time of the tie.

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I don’t mean any harm with this comment, but what a weird point to try to prove.

I don’t think we’ve been any luckier or unluckier than any other club over the course. You’d have to also consider our position when we went into the games as well etc.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

I don’t mean any harm with this comment, but what a weird point to try to prove.

I don’t think we’ve been any luckier or unluckier than any other club over the course. You’d have to also consider our position when we went into the games as well etc.

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I don't think it is. We have massively under achieved in cups in the last 20 years especially when you factor in the draws we've had.

We shouldn't be happy with just getting to Semi's given how many we've been in now in last 20 years.

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

I don't think it is. We have massively under achieved in cups in the last 20 years especially when you factor in the draws we've had.

We shouldn't be happy with just getting to Semi's given how many we've been in now in last 20 years.

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We've won 20% of our trophies in the last 15 years, roughly 10% of our history. We've actually overachieved compared to our clubs history.

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

I don't think it is. We have massively under achieved in cups in the last 20 years especially when you factor in the draws we've had.

We shouldn't be happy with just getting to Semi's given how many we've been in now in last 20 years.

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So we’re massively underachieving in cup competitions...because we’ve been to so many semi finals .... ok [emoji106]

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Originally Posted by bigwheel

So we’re massively underachieving in cup competitions...because we’ve been to so many semi finals .... ok [emoji106]

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Correct.

2 trophies from 18 Semi Finals.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

I don’t mean any harm with this comment, but what a weird point to try to prove.

I don’t think we’ve been any luckier or unluckier than any other club over the course. You’d have to also consider our position when we went into the games as well etc.

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No offence taken. I usually back Hibs in July & January to win the cups. Just an interest bet to win a grand or so. £30 to £60 stake, depending on whether we're 16/1 or 33/1. Off the top of my head it's struck me for the past 12 or 15 years that we've been very lucky with draws. The Gunts in '16 was the only time I remember going "Aw, baws!" when the draw came out. That didn't strike me as being the case in the 80s or 90s. Looking at that list I'd say we've been a lot luckier than average.
I know a guy had a PDC darts tour card for a couple of years. 128 players in standard tour events in that. Seeded draw, so he'd more of a chance of playing a top opponent than a fellow new qualifier. He'd a spell of about 8 events where he drew Thornton and Hamilton to start, then went something like Wade, Chisnall, Webster, Lewis, White over the next few draws.

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

Correct.

2 trophies from 18 Semi Finals.

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How about getting to 18 semis?? Above average performance no???


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Still annoyed at the fact we didn’t beat Dunfermline over 180 minutes in 2007.

Against a poor Celtic team the hibs squad spitting their dummy cost us a realistic chance for a double.

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Originally Posted by Nicho87

Still annoyed at the fact we didn’t beat Dunfermline over 180 minutes in 2007.

Against a poor Celtic team the hibs squad spitting their dummy cost us a realistic chance for a double.

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Yeah that was a hard one to take especially as Pars were so poor.

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

I don't think it is. We have massively under achieved in cups in the last 20 years especially when you factor in the draws we've had.

We shouldn't be happy with just getting to Semi's given how many we've been in now in last 20 years.

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In those 20 years we've reached the semi-finals more times than any other club apart from the Old Firm, and no non-OF club has won more cups than us. In what way is that under achieving in the cups?

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Originally Posted by bigwheel

How about getting to 18 semis?? Above average performance no???


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Above average in comparison to what?

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

In those 20 years we've reached the semi-finals more times than any other club apart from the Old Firm, and no non-OF club has won more cups than us. In what way is that under achieving in the cups?

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2 Trophies from 18 Semi Finals.

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

2 Trophies from 18 Semi Finals.

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2 trophies from 20 played is above our average

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

2 Trophies from 18 Semi Finals.

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Thats actually impressive. Doubt anyone else in Scotland has won even 1 trophy from a semi final in the last 20 years.

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

2 Trophies from 18 Semi Finals.

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In that period no club outside the Old Firm has reached more semi finals and no club outside the Old Firm has won more cups. That means we're the best of the rest in cup competitions.

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Originally Posted by Allez Hibs

Above average in comparison to what?

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The average and less than average teams, obvs.

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Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES

We've won 20% of our trophies in the last 15 years, roughly 10% of our history. We've actually overachieved compared to our clubs history.

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You clever devil. Excellent point.

You can’t argue with statistics, but you can argue what they mean.