Genre defining

Post up titles of films, TV, books, songs/albums that aren’t necessarily the best in class, but would be considered genre defining.

For example :

Sci-fi: Star Wars (might even have to categorise that more specifically)

Horror: Psycho

Britpop: Common People

Etc.

Particularly keen to hear from people with a particular passion for the genre, as I’ll check out the definitive title for some!

Prequels - Manhunter (Silence of the Lambs).

This is difficult as I never really think much about genres. But I'd say the definitive Britpop album would be Definitely Maybe and single Cigarettes and Alcohol although well down the list in my personal favourites which would probably be headed by The Bluetones' Expecting To Fly for album.

Music video - Flowered Up - Weekender

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

Music video - Flowered Up - Weekender

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I would have thought Thriller was the genre defining video.

Having said that, I'm not familiar with Flowered Up. I'll watch it on my TV later.

Mafia movies - The Godfather

Punk album - Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Sex Pistols

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Mafia movies - The Godfather

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Not sure I can agree with this - one of the best mafia films ever made? Sure. Set the standard for all contemporary mafia movies? Fine.

There's an entire library of exceptional mafia films that significantly pre-date the Godfather trilogy though.

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Originally Posted by Sylar

Not sure I can agree with this - one of the best mafia films ever made? Sure. Set the standard for all contemporary mafia movies? Fine.

There's an entire library of exceptional mafia films that significantly pre-date the Godfather trilogy though.

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How are you defining "genre defining" if not by your second point?

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

How are you defining "genre defining" if not by your latter point?

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Actually a very good question, if a little academic in its nature.

I'm thinking of the forerunners - without whom, later, more well recognised efforts simply wouldn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Sylar

Actually a very good question, if a little academic in its nature.

I'm thinking of the forerunners - without whom, later, more well recognised efforts simply wouldn't exist.

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To me genre defining means something excellent which contains all the elements of the genre.

Something you'd look to if you wanted to understand what a film genre was about.

For example, there are thousands of war films, but I'd suggest that the comparitively recent Apocalypse Now was a candidate for that genre's defining title.

Anyway, unless you can offer a specific title to usurp it, The Godfather gets the nod. (G1 definitely, probably G2 but maybe not the third.)

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

Music video - Flowered Up - Weekender

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I've also heard Weekender described as era defining.

It's the era just before mine so I wouldn't really be able to comment but it's probably the era I most wanted to be part of and wasn't a million miles from mine so it was still reasonably familiar.

Even the bit at the start with the radio on...

I love it. Absolutely love it.

Funnily enough re Britpop - I'd say Pulp and Different Class have ended up being era defining. Or genre defining.

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

To me genre defining means something excellent which contains all the elements of the genre.

Something you'd look to if you wanted to understand what a film genre was about.

For example, there are thousands of war films, but I'd suggest that the comparitively recent Apocalypse Now was a candidate for that genre's defining title.

Anyway, unless you can offer a specific title to usurp it, The Godfather gets the nod. (G1 definitely, probably G2 but maybe not the third.)

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Fair enough, I'd accept that under your definition! I was thinking along the lines of films like The Public Enemy, or Angels with Dirty Faces, but I can see your point :agree:

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Originally Posted by Sylar

Actually a very good question, if a little academic in its nature.

I'm thinking of the forerunners - without whom, later, more well recognised efforts simply wouldn't exist.

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Getting really academic now :greengrin....

One could say "without the blues, no Stones", "without black soul, no Beatles"... "without gospel, neither" and......"without God, none of the above" :greengrin

I HATE the term "genre". It smacks of upyererse NME journalists from the 70's and 80's, many of whom went on to become upyererse "commentators" in the 21st Century. Not that I'm bitter......

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

To me genre defining means something excellent which contains all the elements of the genre.

Something you'd look to if you wanted to understand what a film genre was about.

For example, there are thousands of war films, but I'd suggest that the comparitively recent Apocalypse Now was a candidate for that genre's defining title.

Anyway, unless you can offer a specific title to usurp it, The Godfather gets the nod. (G1 definitely, probably G2 but maybe not the third.)

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Godfather is definitely genre defining for mafia movies (as The Sopranos is for the tv series).

For me, genre defining is anything from best-in-class to first one of think of or most associated with, to groundbreaking.

Thriller is definitely a genre-defining video in terms of music videos as well (though there will be others that fit the bill as well).

Not a 'genre' as such but Jurassic Park set the standard for CGI when it came out as did Toy Story for animated films.

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Godfather is definitely genre defining for mafia movies (as The Sopranos is for the tv series).

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I can't profess to have seen every gangster movie which preceded the Godfather, the ones I have seen, like Angels with Dirty Faces, White Heat etc, weren't really about the Mafia. They were about crime or the individuals responsible for it.

Both the productions you highlight, aren't about crime. They're about relationships, honour, betrayal, Family and family, and power.

Coincidentally, I spent the weekend watching G1 and G2 with Mrs R because she'd never seen them before. They're still awesome. Apart from maybe being a bit slower than you'd expect nowadays, they've not really dated.

What's the name of that filming style which was popular in the 60s and 70s when it's more observational than character focused? In the group scenes in the Godfather, like the weddings and funerals, it's used perfectly.

I know. I know. I should start a Godfather thread.

Good subject Matty 👍

I would have thought the genre defining Punk record was London Calling, by The Clash.


I realise lots of punk rockers (like our very own Iggy) would have songs they prefer, but for the general public, that really defined the whole era.

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

I would have thought the genre defining Punk record was London Calling, by The Clash.


I realise lots of punk rockers (like our very own Iggy) would have songs they prefer, but for the general public, that really defined the whole era.

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Has to be Never Mind The Bollocks. London Calling was issued over 2 years later and for me, punk was over by then.

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Originally Posted by Hiber-nation

Has to be Never Mind The Bollocks. London Calling was issued over 2 years later and for me, punk was over by then.

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Fair enough, I have no problem admitting that other people know punk a lot better than me.

:aok:

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Originally Posted by Hiber-nation

Has to be Never Mind The Bollocks. London Calling was issued over 2 years later and for me, punk was over by then.

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I'm not sure I think it was over, but it was changing and that was inevitable.

You could argue that The Clash (1) was genre defining, you could certainly make a case for it, but even that was probably too eclectic.

Never Mind the Bollocks still gets my vote. Even the title tells you what you need to know.

Nevermind - Nirvana. IMO (and I realise that there would be queues the size of cities to argue otherwise) it's a 7/10 album but it captured the mood of a movement. The likes of Pixies, Mudhoney etc. were far better bands, but Nevermind is the one on all the posters.

Arctic Monkeys debut album, Tracey Emin's unmade bed (an artist who I admire, but that has defined the whole genre of what she does.

2020 is the first year since the early 2000's that I've not been to a music festival and although I've been six or seven times, Glastonbury is the defining festival in the UK and it's brilliant, but it's no longer the best. The last ten years have seen too few new acts coming through with the potential to headline a large festival and as the festival has grown, the possibility of someone like Foals or Elbow or someone like that to headline has diminished. Stormzy managed it without anyone else pulling out and that was a great show, the sort of thing that makes or breaks artists and festivals reputation, but it's becoming too reliant on the past to fulfil its future. Similarly, if you want to book a big act it's not uncommon for the demand to be "If you book this, this and this act we want to get more exposure and give them a spot on a big stage, then we'll listen" and you end up with an unbalanced line-up.

As Spotify changes the landscape of popular music (look at how long something like Mr. Brightside was in the streaming charts, over a decade after it was originally released) it becomes harder for good, talented new acts to become "huge". As such I genuinely think there is more of what makes a festival great - giving a big stage to lesser known acts, discovering new artists from new genres you'd not heard before and the like in the smaller festivals in the UK. For the larger scale acts something like Bearded Theory has a great depth in variety, and up here something like Doune the Rabbit Hole is fabulous. They're less reliant on pleasing record labels so the main stages generally have more thought put into them too.

Iron Man

There were plenty of superhero movies before this and some of those are arguably above Iron Man in terms of quality (The Dark Knight, Spiderman 2 for example) but the whole shared universe aspect of the Marvel movies, starting with Iron Man is something that has defined not just the superhero genre but has also influenced entertainment media as a whole with every other franchise from Harry Potter to Star Wars trying to emulate that format with spin-offs and interconnecting stories across multiple films / TV shows / Books etc.

Modern Scottish literature: Lanark by Alasdair Gray. Pretty much everything, good and bad, is in there one way or another.

Not sure exactly which Genre these films fall into exactly but The Green Mile and Shawshank Redemption would be categorised simply as Prison movies, but I think that does them a disservice they were also epic stories.

Run DMC by Run DMC (obviously) ushered in the era of 'new school' rap. I'd argue It Take a Million To Hold Us Back by Public Enemy surpassed it in quality a couple of years later. In the same vein The Chronic by Dr Dre for gangsta rap and the later G funk. It got rid of excessive drum machines and sampling and replaced it with studio recorded music.

Music Video - Duran Duran, Rio
Electronic Music - Violator by Depeche Mode
Olympic Games Opening Ceremonies - Los Angeles ‘84
80’s Brat Pack films - Breakfast Club
Horror Film - I Spit on Your Grave
Jinx busting sports teams - Hibs 2016

Western - The Good The Bad & The Ugly

Police Thriller - Dirty Harry

Buddy Cop - Lethal Weapon

Not necessarily the first in their genres but probably genre defining IMO.

Children's literature has to be Harry Potter for the last few generations at least.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Children's literature has to be Harry Potter for the last few generations at least.

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Good shout. I'd maybe make a case for Roald Dahl being the true measure of the genre in the sense that children today devour his books in the same way their parents and maybe even Grandparents did.

However JK Rowling certainly picked up the baton. I started to read the Harry Potter series when I was 11 or 12 and I finished the series when I was in 3rd year at uni. Now I can't wait to read them, and Dahl, to my own child.

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

I would have thought the genre defining Punk record was London Calling, by The Clash.


I realise lots of punk rockers (like our very own Iggy) would have songs they prefer, but for the general public, that really defined the whole era.

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For shock value it would be the Pistols but the album that defines punk rock, for me anyway, is Young, Loud and Snotty by the Dead Boys. It really is everything a '77 punk rock album should be.

Footballs - Adidas Tango

Footwear - Air Jordan / Air Max 1

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Originally Posted by Hiber-nation

Has to be Never Mind The Bollocks. London Calling was issued over 2 years later and for me, punk was over by then.

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It still isn't over, there's still great punk rock records getting released all the time, the maximum rock n roll site reviews section is bursting with new releases each month.

By '79 the London centric art school version of punk rock had imploded but there were still plenty bands bringing out music that was just as important to the punk scene, amongst many of them the damned were back and released machine gun etiquette, the UK subs were doing some great stuff, in Stoke Discharge were at the forefront of hardcore punk and Crass were taking the DIY ethic to whole new levels.

That said there was also a lot of generic rubbish and all that oi nonsese about too.

There was a spell in the mid to late 80s where the old bands still toured doing their tired sets of the old stuff but very little decent new stuff was coming out but that changed with Bad Religion getting back together and bringing out Suffer in 1988, it reignited the whole thing again.

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Footballs - Adidas Tango

Footwear - Air Jordan / Air Max 1

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Football boots - Predators

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Originally Posted by degenerated

It still isn't over, there's still great punk rock records getting released all the time, the maximum rock n roll site reviews section is bursting with new releases each month.

By '79 the London centric art school version of punk rock had imploded but there were still plenty bands bringing out music that was just as important to the punk scene, amongst many of them the damned were back and released machine gun etiquette, the UK subs were doing some great stuff, in Stoke Discharge were at the forefront of hardcore punk and Crass were taking the DIY ethic to whole new levels.

That said there was also a lot of generic rubbish and all that oi nonsese about too.

There was a spell in the mid to late 80s where the old bands still toured doing their tired sets of the old stuff but very little decent new stuff was coming out but that changed with Bad Religion getting back together and bringing out Suffer in 1988, it reignited the whole thing again.

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Yeah I appreciate the music has still kept going but it was over for me. Still have all my old punk singles though and come to think of it, One Chord Wonders by the Adverts is probably as genre defining as any punk single.

Mix CD - Sasha + John Digweed - Renaissance : The Mix Collection

Racing games : Super Mario Kart (SNES 1992)

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Getting really academic now :greengrin....

One could say "without the blues, no Stones", "without black soul, no Beatles"... "without gospel, neither" and......"without God, none of the above" :greengrin

I HATE the term "genre". It smacks of upyererse NME journalists from the 70's and 80's, many of whom went on to become upyererse "commentators" in the 21st Century. Not that I'm bitter......

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I tried with a couple of albums and ended up going down rabbit holes which by the end decided they weren’t really the label/genre i’d stuck in them originally....boxing creative output only limits

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Originally Posted by Hiber-nation

Yeah I appreciate the music has still kept going but it was over for me. Still have all my old punk singles though and come to think of it, One Chord Wonders by the Adverts is probably as genre defining as any punk single.

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That's a brilliant song :agree:

Look after those singles, highly collectable and some are worth a fair few quid. I've seen one chord wonders go for up to £150 on ebay in the last year.

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Originally Posted by degenerated

That's a brilliant song :agree:

Look after those singles, highly collectable and some are worth a fair few quid. I've seen one chord wonders go for up to £150 on ebay in the last year.

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Cheers that's good to know 👍

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Originally Posted by Frazerbob

Music Video - Duran Duran, Rio
Electronic Music - Violator by Depeche Mode
Olympic Games Opening Ceremonies - Los Angeles ‘84
80’s Brat Pack films - Breakfast Club
Horror Film - I Spit on Your Grave
Jinx busting sports teams - Hibs 2016

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Nah, that has to be Kraftwerk - The Model

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Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip

Mix CD - Sasha + John Digweed - Renaissance : The Mix Collection

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:top marksSo good. I had the first edition CD with all the artwork and Caravaggio packaging.

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

Nah, that has to be Kraftwerk - The Model

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Again its down to is this the biggest influence to others or the best of its kind.......If its the best of its kind then its a pretty broad sphere of music its representing :greengrin https://music.ishkur.com/

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Originally Posted by Dalianwanda

Again its down to is this the biggest influence to others or the best of its kind.......If its the best of its kind then its a pretty broad sphere of music its representing :greengrin https://music.ishkur.com/

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My logic is more along the lines of...


"what is the electronic song that makes me think I'm twelve again and just started high school"

p.s. After all these years, I now understand the original German lyrics, so that's a bonus point in it's favour :wink:

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

My logic is more along the lines of...


"what is the electronic song that makes me think I'm twelve again and just started high school"

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Certainly a good start to high school life if that was your soundtrack :wink:

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

Nah, that has to be Kraftwerk - The Model

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:agree: Although I grew to hate it with a venom, it was one of those songs that was definitely overplayed.

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Originally Posted by Dalianwanda

Certainly a good start to high school life if that was your soundtrack :wink:

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Yes indeedy :greengrin



My mates were mostly Punks or Mods (or so they claimed) and I was the freaky one that listened to the electronic stuff, like THIS

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

:top marksSo good. I had the first edition CD with all the artwork and Caravaggio packaging.

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Quality mate. Hard for me to say which I prefer, Renaissance or Northern Exposure. Both all time favourites!

Sports video games - the FIFA series. It's not very good, and PES is much better for a football experience.

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Originally Posted by MagicSwirlingShip

Quality mate. Hard for me to say which I prefer, Renaissance or Northern Exposure. Both all time favourites!

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You inspired me to search it out on Spotify; not nearly the same. A few totally different versions of tracks parachuted in and of course it doesn’t get that brilliant way they’re all mixed into each other. That Perfecto mix of Its not over yet, though :greengrin Its just, well, perfect.

i don’t listen to that style of music much anymore but definitely takes me back to a time and place when everything was hazy :not worth

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Originally Posted by hibsbollah

:top marksSo good. I had the first edition CD with all the artwork and Caravaggio packaging.

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I reckon I still have mine in a box in the attic somewhere!

Quality shout for sure!

Children's TV Drama - Grange Hill
Nature Programme - Life on Earth

Ambient Music - Ambient 1: Music for Airports by Brian Eno

70's Floor Covering - Linoleum

Mobile music - Sony Walkman / iPod (depending on your age [emoji2957])

WW2 documentaries - The World At War

Weird telly: Twin Peaks. Set the standard.

Adult cartoon shows - The Simpsons

Children's TV Show Presenters that made you realise you had entered puberty - Sally James from Tiswas

Sports Documentaries - When We Were Kings

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Originally Posted by Keith_M

Children's TV Show Presenters that made you realise you had entered puberty - Sally James from Tiswas

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:tsk tsk:

:tee hee:

I think this is a really interesting topic (hence the thread :greengrin) and what I was hoping for was to end up with a list of things to watch, read or listen to for genres that I'm not really into at the moment, to see if they opened my eyes to them.

Would maybe be worth creating a list of genres for literature, film, tv and music and then try to get a couple of genre defining books, films, albums (or songs) for each.

So next question is (and sorry CWG, I know you hated the term 'genre' but I'm not sure how else to get a readily recognisable term for these) what genres are there for each?

Anyone???

There's going to be cross over and some movies fit in a number of categories, but here's my effort;

Film

Gangster
Romance
Adventure
Comedy
Music
Y.A.
Sports
Christmas
Art House
Biographic
Horror
Fantasy
Drama
War
Western
Thriller
Animated
Disaster
Mystery
Action
Martial Arts
Sci-Fi
Foreign Language
Erotic
Crime
Detective
Religious
Adult
Black Comedy

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

There's going to be cross over and some movies fit in a number of categories, but here's my effort;

Film

Gangster
Romance
Adventure
Comedy
Music
Y.A.
Sports
Christmas
Art House
Biographic
Horror
Fantasy
Drama
War
Western
Thriller
Animated
Disaster
Mystery
Action
Martial Arts
Sci-Fi
Foreign Language
Erotic
Crime
Detective
Religious
Adult

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Struggling with YA unless you missed M & C

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Originally Posted by O'Rourke3

Struggling with YA unless you missed M & C

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Young Adult

What's M&C?

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Young Adult

What's M&C?

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Young Man!

Put It all together in the right order :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Young Man!

Put It all together in the right order :greengrin

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I'm none the wiser

[QUOTE=Hibbyradge;6469426]

Thanks for the distraction,

Gangster - Godfather/ Scarface

Adventure - Original Indiana Jones

Comedy - The life of Brian

Music - want to say Paint Your Wagon but must be Grease

Sports - Rocky

Christmas - Die Hard ;^)

Horror - 1931 Frankenstein

Fantasy - Who Framed Roger Rabbit

War - Rambo First Blood

Western - Fistful of Dollars

Thriller - LA Confidential

Animated - Toy Story

Disaster - Twister

Mystery - Silence of the Lambs

Martial Arts - The Way of the Dragon

Sci-Fi - Blade Runner

Foreign Language - seven samurai

Erotic - 9 1/2 weeks

Crime - The French Connection

Religious - The Ten Commandments


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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

I'm none the wiser

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Y M C A ...... unless I'm having a serious whoosh moment (Not difficult!)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radium

Thanks for the distraction,

Gangster - Godfather/ Scarface

Adventure - Original Indiana Jones

Comedy - The life of Brian

Music - want to say Paint Your Wagon but must be Grease

Sports - Rocky

Christmas - Die Hard ;^)

Horror - 1931 Frankenstein

Fantasy - Who Framed Roger Rabbit

War - Rambo First Blood

Western - Fistful of Dollars

Thriller - LA Confidential

Animated - Toy Story

Disaster - Twister

Mystery - Silence of the Lambs

Martial Arts - The Way of the Dragon

Sci-Fi - Blade Runner

Foreign Language - seven samurai

Erotic - 9 1/2 weeks

Crime - The French Connection

Religious - The Ten Commandments


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That's a good list! :agree:

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

There's going to be cross over and some movies fit in a number of categories, but here's my effort;

Film

Gangster
Romance
Adventure
Comedy
Music
Y.A.
Sports
Christmas
Art House
Biographic
Horror
Fantasy
Drama
War
Western
Thriller
Animated
Disaster
Mystery
Action
Martial Arts
Sci-Fi
Foreign Language
Erotic
Crime
Detective
Religious
Adult

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well done Dave, so now we need people to populate that list.

And also do the same for music :greengrin

Film

Gangster - Godfather
Romance - Casablanca
Adventure - Raiders of the lost ark
Comedy - Blazin Saddles
Music - Oliver!
Y.A. - still none the wiser
Sports - Rocky
Christmas - It's a wonderful life
Art House - Donnie Darko
Biographic - Schindler's List
Horror - The Exorcist
Fantasy - Pans Labyrinth
Drama - Shawshank Redemption
War - The Great Escape
Western - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Thriller - Psycho
Animated - Toy Story
Disaster - Towering Inferno
Mystery - Rear Window
Action - Die Hard
Martial Arts - The Karate Kid
Sci-Fi - Alien
Foreign Language - Let the right one in
Erotic - Blue is the warmest colour
Crime - The Dark Knight
Detective - Seven
Religious - Life of Brian
Adult - Deep Throat

[QUOTE=Radium;6469786]

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Originally Posted by Hibbyradge

Thanks for the distraction,

Gangster - Godfather/ Scarface

Adventure - Original Indiana Jones

Comedy - The life of Brian

Music - want to say Paint Your Wagon but must be Grease

Sports - Rocky

Christmas - Die Hard ;^)

Horror - 1931 Frankenstein

Fantasy - Who Framed Roger Rabbit

War - Rambo First Blood

Western - Fistful of Dollars

Thriller - LA Confidential

Animated - Toy Story

Disaster - Twister

Mystery - Silence of the Lambs

Martial Arts - The Way of the Dragon

Sci-Fi - Blade Runner

Foreign Language - seven samurai

Erotic - 9 1/2 weeks

Crime - The French Connection

Religious - The Ten Commandments


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Should Life Of Brian not be under mystery rather than comedy? It’s a mystery to me what the appeal is anyway :greengrin joking aside, good effort.

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Originally Posted by Hibby70

Film

Gangster - Godfather
Romance - Casablanca
Adventure - Raiders of the lost ark
Comedy - Blazin Saddles
Music - Oliver!
Y.A. - still none the wiser
Sports - Rocky
Christmas - It's a wonderful life
Art House - Donnie Darko
Biographic - Schindler's List
Horror - The Exorcist
Fantasy - Pans Labyrinth
Drama - Shawshank Redemption
War - The Great Escape
Western - The Good, the Bad and the Ugly
Thriller - Psycho
Animated - Toy Story
Disaster - Towering Inferno
Mystery - Rear Window
Action - Die Hard
Martial Arts - The Karate Kid
Sci-Fi - Alien
Foreign Language - Let the right one in
Erotic - Blue is the warmest colour
Crime - The Dark Knight
Detective - Seven
Religious - Life of Brian
Adult - Deep Throat

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Some great movies on there.

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Y M C A ...... unless I'm having a serious whoosh moment (Not difficult!)

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Gotcha.

Massive whoosh from me

Y.A. is Young adult

Harry Potter. The Hunger games etc

On topic though... a very decent list and some great movies so far, H70, a lot of yours click for me, a few I haven't seen so now on my watch list. :agree:


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Some Genre defining for me & some just my favorites as Ive not seen enough to make an educated guess (or seen too many that I cant make up my mind)

Gangster - Scarface
Romance - Betty Blue
Adventure - Star Wars
Comedy - Life Of Brian
Music - Calamity Jane
Sports - Raging Bull
Christmas - Gremlins
Art House - Man Bites Dog
Biographic - Walk The Line
Horror - Blair Witch
Fantasy - Never Ending Story
Drama - Drive
War - Full Metal Jacket
Western - Unforgiven
Thriller - Victoria
Animated - Up!
Mystery - Angel Heart
Martial Arts - Kill Bill
Sci-Fi - Close Encounters
Foreign Language - Parasite
Crime - Reservoir Dogs
Detective - Seven

Finally Trainspotting..........just anywhere it fits ;-)

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Originally Posted by Dalianwanda

Some Genre defining for me & some just my favorites as Ive not seen enough to make an educated guess (or seen too many that I cant make up my mind)



Finally Trainspotting..........just anywhere it fits ;-)

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Good point. I've added Black comedy to my list which is probably appropriate for Trainspotting.