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The Record are reporting that we're going to be along players to take a wage cut, having previously agreed to defer wages.
Clearly that's indicative of us expecting a big drop in income, but should we also take this as a sign that transfer activity will be minimal as well?
Good discussion on this in a couple of other threads.
The DR article confirms Combe is likely to leave with Samson coming in to replace himQuote:
Originally Posted by offshorehibby
Always on the cards I’m afraid. There is going to be a massive hit to our finances over the next year. No club will escape it. We will likely try and sell Boyle and Kamberri but it’s a tough market to sell into as well.
There will still be players arriving but it will be on lower wages than we would normally pay.
Could be worse, could be in Hearts situation.
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Makes sense
It's got legs,unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by offshorehibby
I never get any good info but I trust this one.
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That would be brutal for themQuote:
Originally Posted by offshorehibby
Makel and Nish work predominantly with the reserve/development team. I’ve got to know then and Grant quite well since going to the games
Think that tells you we’re highly unlikely to be having a team at that level this season
Surely that can't be a redundancy then?Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomtownHibeys
We don’t know either of their job spec’s PHQuote:
Originally Posted by PatHead
Wish the club would confirm or deny all these circulating rumours. It hurts to see fans of other clubs commenting on our impending supposed bankruptcy. Only yesterday Dundee Utd were reporting that they were favourites to sign Nesbit subject to their managers estimation, as we were in financial turmoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam978
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Unfortunately with a lack of income clubs will have to cut there cloth accordingly. Could mean players leaving. I think the majority of clubs will be in the same position
Given that, as the meeting (according to people on here) is taking place this afternoon, it would be wrong to make these things public until the most important people had been informed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam978
Obviously the removal of The Maroon Pound has already had an effect.
:duck:
Yip Tick Tock and all that :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
It's just essential, sensible financial planning. There's now more of a roadmap for top flight football than at the start of the pandemic in the UK.
Hopefully we can work things out in a mutual and fair way. I'd trust our current executive team to do that. (Rather than threatening redundancies in the national press a week or two into the ordeal).
The Kamberi money will be very welcome. Hopefully it's a good fee
This is far more important than the reconstruction circus.
I wouldn’t be hurt by it. Hibs will be fine. We’re no different to any other business at this point in time. Substantially reduced income means you need to change your operation. Unfortunately, that’ll mean redundancy for some folk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam978
We’ll still have a team to watch though and we’ll still be watching them in the top league.
I canny see the club commenting on absolute drivel being peddled from fans of other clubs that we’re going bankrupt. Nor did I think our fans would expect a statement on it due to its sheer ridiculousnessQuote:
Originally Posted by Liam978
That's how I feel. I'm safe in the knowledge that Hibs are in the best hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by B.H.F.C
Have said it on previous threads, much as it hurts to admit it, cutting wages rather than deferring them was always the way to go!!!
How can you pay a player 1.5 wages when no money coming in, its just ludicris!!!
It depends how the players' deals are constructed.Quote:
Originally Posted by where'stheslope
If most players basic is only 70-80% of their final earnings (the rest being appearance money & bonuses), then having no matches effectively cuts their wages.
Budge admitted that their wages weren't heavy on bonuses, therefore win, lose or draw the players were still getting paid full whack (or nearly) - they had no choice but to go for wage cuts.
It also depends how you want to treat your employees.
I take what you say as correct, but no matter who you work for, if you are asked to take a wage cut, you become disillusioned and start quoting contracts!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
It is a sign of the times, and I'm afraid all clubs could be forced into this position sooner rather than later.
Hope the club can keep it to a minimum so we can keep the majority of the squad together!!!
Which is why Hibs deferred wages in the first instance. The club made the effort to do the right thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by where'stheslope
If the club does it's best for the players, the majority will reciprocate.
Obviously things are not good for Scottish football at the moment but Hibs are not in financial trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam978
The club had healthy financial reserves and no debt when Ron Gordon came in and nothing has been spent (other than on a new PA system I believe) to change that situation. On top of that we have sold 8,000 season tickets for next season and I reckon another 2,000 folk will be ready to buy or will buy before the new early bird deadline.
IMO only Celtic are in better financial shape and Dundee Utd are maxed out.
We know Rangers needed a cash injection to keep going to the end of this season so they will be hurting at the moment. FOH will just about keep Hearts floating. Aberdeen despite Cormack's babling will be fine.
Below that the smaller teams will have shed a lot of players on short term contracts as they always do and will hold off on restocking as long as possible.
If a club entered the current crisis in debt or with little or no reserves they will struggle but fortunately Hibs are not in that situation. The rainy day of rainy days has arrived and Hibs have a bit in reserve and the supporters behind them. GGTTH!
I wonder if players will see this as a bit of a kick in the teeth. They were asked to take the deferral on the promise that wages would be returned to normal. Asking them now to take a wage cut might not go down well. The story is pretty vague and I’d hope that the players remain on board and together.
The alternative could mean the clause hearts where going on about where players can be released? They are in very good wages at a very good club, you would hope they would agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
That’s Hibs now confirmed they’re in consultation with staff.
If they accept the proposal you would like to think they would get their deferred wages paid up to date.
Be good if the club opened up other revenue streams as well throughout the season, for example the money that I would pay for an away game could go to the club.
Typical that a few months ago we were talking about jumbo screens and indoor pitches!
Most teams will be in bad shape but very frustrating that we were on the verge of something potentially very exciting.
If the players read any papers, social media or watch the news they'll know the economy is ****ed as a result of this and will count themselves lucky to be in a job - nobody is immune from this.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
We probably have 2-3 players who could maybe move on and get a bigger wage in the current climate (Boyle, Kamberi & Rocky) - the rest should be lucky to still be in employment and hopefully they see it that way.
Great communication from the club again regards to this. Onwards and upwards.
Why is season ticket money for this season not being spent until next? Or have i picked that up wrong?
Because next season hasn't started yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by we are hibs
Next season isnt the upcoming season. Its the following one. We are now in season 20/21.Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient hibee
Why did we vote to drop down a place in the league and give up on £130k :confused:
Could do with a big English club spending a fortune on SJM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since452
Sporting integrity 👍🏼Quote:
Originally Posted by DH1875
Getting Kamberi out the door will help also. Sadly, Boyle being sold also.Quote:
Originally Posted by jax67
Quote:
Originally Posted by we are hibs
I'm sure you know what they meant, as in 'the season that's not started yet'
The only other option was to try and play out the season and that wasn't going to be possible, at least not without even more cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by DH1875
Probably read all the "fans" on here who wouldn't be back if our vote aided Hearts.Quote:
Originally Posted by DH1875
Because if we had voted the other way many fans would have seen that as a vote to keep Hearts in the league. It might have cost us season ticket sales in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by DH1875
I didnt know what they meant. Thats why i asked. Next season isnt this upcoming season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
Or they probably realised that the season couldnt be realistically completed. Any chance for you to try and stir a wee bit trouble on here though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Just a joke, relax yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by we are hibs
Hilarious stuff thenQuote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Was a good oneQuote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Every club will have to adjust the their new levels of income until the virus is gone. Every club will be losing money. The dons are shipping a million a month which is unsustainable. It’s time every club faced up to the reality that millions of folk outside football are facing. Hugely reduced income for the foreseeable future. The Spfl should have been looking at how all 42 clubs get through this crisis instead of spending nearly three months of eventually ensuring hertz got the telegation they deserved.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Ok I cant see anything on this, so I'm not too embarrassed to ask......but are we saying we're close to burning thru £4.5m (cash reserve from last accounts I'm sure was approx this amount...) ?
Tragic if this is the case...we need manu to buy McGinn !
That was money from season ticket sales, which is then used to pay wages and bills throughout the season. How else do you think we pay for stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggie
We're lucky we have a cash reserve, other clubs have and are living hand to mouth and it will start to show soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggie
Closed door games will have a massive impact on all clubs running costs, playing games and no revenue coming in!
The longer it stays that way the more it will take years to get back on financial track.
I keep hearing this about “other clubs”. These other clubs are looking and are making signings for the new season. Aye they have potentially got rid of some players but so have we. I’m just not understanding if it’s the same else where why they’re in a position to bring new players in and we don’t seem to beQuote:
Originally Posted by where'stheslope
Are all the youth academy players, u17 and below, being released ? Read the academy coaches were away
Wait and see what happens before getting too uptight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart93
Not official yet but it’s looking very likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by The dalmeny
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I don’t think the youth players will be released there just won’t be training taking place that’s why the coaches have been releaased
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggie
A large part of that money was what we'd raised by selling Season Tickets, i.e. it's for normal running costs like players' wages. That sum then goes down every month as we pay our bills (after all, we're not Hearts).
I assume part of it was also used for player purchases (e.g. for Doidge), some stadium upgrades... and we'll have had to use more of our cash reserves than was expected due to missing out on income from curtailing the season.
Are we not looking at making signings?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart93
It's been explained to you several times on the PM board. You're probably just going to have to come to terms with the fact that you're not going to understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart93
To be fair, he’d regularly wet the bed during transfer windows in normal times so this is just par for the course. It’s going to be another long window 🙄Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
https://bit.ly/3fvjx6v
This article seems a bit of a mess. On one hand the players are raging and might want out but on the other they are sympathetic and willing to help.
Must have started interview with Harvey Dent and finished it with Two-Face? :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
I think certain players will be asking their agents to have a look around for alternative clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg
Which clubs will have the cash to pay players though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lago
That’s fine with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lago
If we’re cutting wages as we’re skint we need to be generating whatever we can through player sales.
Entirely reasonable for the club and players to want that.
Interesting development
Not shocked although will be if other clubs arnt doing the same
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Will it not be the case that players will be able to leave for nothing if we cut their wages?Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
Possibly poor of me but I think we can be very competitive on the pitch paying player wages befitting of the current situation. If some of our high earners leave then so be it. Let’s not forget how average we were last season while paying quite a bit for our squad. Players have right to protect their livelihoods but they best get some advice on the general landscape of football. Selfish agents probably aren’t the best people to seek advice from in this regard...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lago
Can’t be sentimental here when it comes to players. We need to think of club more than anything. Players come and go, we need to ensure club remains.
If we impose, perhaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
But they will be asked to lengthen contracts on lower salaries instead.
Some may prefer to be sold - kamberi, Boyle perhaps?
It will all work out in the end.
Don’t see good players leaving for nothing during administration for clubs so it must be avoidable.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
No way we would lose say a £2m asset for the sake of trying to save a matter of hundred of pounds a week on that player
Yep, agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter
Well, Kamberi IS allowed an opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter
Lower salaries but bigger bonuses perhaps? That way if we don’t bring other people in there’s less chance of the players achieving these bonuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
Jack ross is going to have his work cut out this summer that’s for sure.
Apart from Boyle, Porteous, Kamberri and Doidge I think any other player not that happy would be allowed to walk.
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Is it unreasonable to expect our owner to help in this time? I dunno.
I think Farmer definitely would do everything he could to help and I very much hope Ron does too.
Again spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
We have to budget for our times. We will have projected a budget to June 2021. There is likely to be no match day income till then - no walk ups, no away fans and no other match day sales. There is also likely to be a fall off in season ticket sales - probably at least 2,000 on last season. We have TV money/prize money. Our outgoings are dominated by wages. Ron has rightly said we must prune the wages back to supporting the first team as well as cutting players wages. Do all this and we will minimise our monthly shortfall. Selling some players will help to. But I am sure some money will be diverted from other projects just to keep the club running. These are hard times and every business will be going through the sane decision making process. This is about surviving the worst economic recession since the 1930s great depression.
Maybe he has?Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Maybe farmer would have reduced the terms of his loan to Hibs?
We don't know what Ron is or isn't doing. I'm sure he's on the working party that's been put together to get football played again in front of paying customers, maybe it's now further off than first thought
I think it became quite reasonable when we started talking about people losing jobs and livelihoods and fans trying to contribute monthly donations...think it becomes quite reasonable to expect owner to contribute to the survival of the company he owns. Especially when he took share issue off the table. Over to you Ron...Quote:
Originally Posted by MWHIBBIES
Obviously if he is already doing something then great!
Thing is, this is as difficult as it will get for Ron at Hibs. If he gets this wrong we'll be back to where we were in 2014 and it will all have been for nothing. This actually sounds really serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by 04Sauzee
I would take an average season right now, all these wage cuts and talk of unhappy players has relegation battle written all over it. Our current squad is much to good for that but take out Boyle, Allan, Marciano and Doidge and were a very ordinary side.
Seen this post on Facebook in reply to someone on one of the fans pages.
“Hi Derek, how's u? Hibs staff costs are just under £6.5m a year and total operating costs not far of £11.5m. Even if we sold 15k season tickets and they were all £400 each (no where near this on average) that would only be £6m and not even enough to cover wages. Without fans going to games, buying merch, hospitality, etc it’s tough times ahead.”
No idea how they knows these exact figures but thought it would be worth posting on here.
While the club deserve credit for the way they have handled the player deferrals, the timing and PR around the last couple of days has been very poor.
The club have said little recently (we didn’t even know when they were back to training until yesterday) and the timing of yesterday announcement felt like delivering bad news (hidden) right after reconstruction outcome.
The fact that they hadn’t spoke to the players and staff before the announcement (assuming that true) is crap. It reads as an ultimatum and warning to the staff.
I get that we have some challanging outlook financially but it really pisses me off that our only income source appears to be from season tickets and tv distribution money to make up the 50% of turnover.
Yet here we are trying to promote HSL(who do these best) on a shoestring and the most basic comms approach. We have had months to be more creative on this.
IF we sell Boyle and Allan and Doidge along with Kamberi and rocky we are screwed.
The whole thing reads like - we are lucky we have significant cash deposits but Ron wants his cash back thank you very much and while I have no issue with that surely there is a little more ambition from our new owner than to totally downgrade the club?
That might also cause problems. If a player is worth money and we don’t cut their wages the other players will be annoyed about that. The whole thing is going to open a can of worms that might not end well. The owner needs to step up and put his money where his mouth is.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo70
I hope so mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by green day
I suppose the owner's ability to do that will depend on the nick of his other businesses as well, and whether he's in a position to prop them all up (if needed) personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
I think if we were his only concern,u expectation would be that he sees us right, but I think he has a number of businesses and without knowing how they're all doing, it might be that he needs us to cut our cloth in the meantime.
No much point in walking when all the other clubs are doing the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Last accounts turnover £10.8m, staff costs £6.3m. Operating loss £0.7 m. Operating costs then £11.5 million. Transfer fees of £2.8m saved us. This year season ticket sakes so far £3.4 million and SPFL prize money £1.4m. We have a huge shortfall. We may get more season ticket sales say plus £1m and say another £0.5m from merchandising. Matchday income unlikely this coming season. We would have a £4.5 million shortfall. Need to prune back operations to the core and reduce wages to survive. Transfers will help a little. We need McGinn to Man U.Quote:
Originally Posted by HendoDelivered
Players and staff were spoken to prior to it appearing in the press. The press report didn’t come from Hibs direct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Col2
Do you really think this is what the club did? Really? Jeez.Quote:
Originally Posted by Col2
Yes, and Hibs and the players know that. I think an agreement will be found. I also think Kamberri and Boyle will be sold and we will make new signings, with the new players having to fit into the new pay structure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxy
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I wonder which player has been feeding the details to the Record journo.
It could be someone that's been let go, ot even one of their wives.Quote:
Originally Posted by underscore
Agents probably at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peevemor
Would depend entirely what the contract said.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
It’s all a bit of an unknown at this point, but selfishly I’m only interested in hibs. He’s bought a football team and that means he’s got to be prepared to put money into it at time’s of trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by matty_f
I actually thought it might’ve been one of the coaches that have been let go.Quote:
Originally Posted by underscore
But Hibs should have been on the front foot, no way we're they going to keep this news secret, so the club statement should have addressed all the issues. We have gone from big screen TVs & ribbon advertising & able to reject shirt sponsorship to a bit of a bunker scenario. As yet I've no other club, apart from Hearts, appear to be going down this road in fact most appear to be recruiting, with Dundee Utd's American owner more willing than ours to "pony up". I suppose it's all about survival but I'm bracing myself for a season of mid table mediocrity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heisenberg