Hecky didn’t get to sign a single player

For the most part, neither did Lennon or Stubbs. Apart from their former players that is.

In 2014 after a revolving door of managers and faceless journeymen, the Hibs board accepted a proposal for a fundamental restructuring of the club. It was based upon a model designed by the Lets Work Together Vision group and known as The Hibernian Way’.

The Chairman’s executive responsibilities would end and a CEO appointed. LD had been targeted eight months earlier. A Director of Football would run the football operation and the CEO the business. The DOF would recruit a Head Coach and also scout and sign players that fitted the club profile and who would play the Hibs brand of attacking football.

Under that model there was still to be scope for Head Coach suggestions.For example Lennon wanted Vela. But ultimately the style of play and all the recruitment has been the responsibility of Graeme Mathie. The Head Coach is hired and fired by Mathie, not Dempster.

His summer recruits were sourced for a long term future at the club and in recent months we are starting to see what he and his team saw when they were scouted. So apart from Lennon’s Vela, they may yet all make the grade.

Credit where credit’s due to Mathie and his team. However jthe decision that Vela was a better DM than Bartley was a stinker of a call. That will be the last time he trusts the judgement of a Head Coach when it comes to a signing.

That’s complete rubbish. Lennon met up with McNulty in Queensferry last November to try and get him to sign. That’s the only example I know first hand but you’re telling me we wanted a Yeovil right back to replace Gray? Adam Jackson wasn’t recommended by his former manager?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 90+2

That’s complete rubbish. Lennon met up with McNulty in Queensferry last November to try and get him to sign. That’s the only example I know first hand but you’re telling me we wanted a Yeovil right back to replace Gray? Adam Jackson wasn’t recommended by his former manager?

---

Or Lennon didn't sign Ambrose, Commons or Marciano etc. Not buying it either, I think it's very much a collaborative project.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vault Boy

Or Lennon didn't sign Ambrose, Commons or Marciano etc. Not buying it either, I think it's very much a collaborative project.

---

Yeah, Rocky and Efe came from Lennys fav agent.

I agree 👍. Even the lad who has just signed a pre contract at Aberdeen Stubbs brought up from Everton on loan I’m sure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 90+2

Yeah, Rocky and Efe came from Lennys fav agent.

I agree 👍. Even the lad who has just signed a pre contract at Aberdeen Stubbs brought up from Everton on loan I’m sure.

---

:agree:

There’s a structure in place but HC gets to decide on players. They play a big role... but this is modern football.

Lennon definitely used his contacts for Efe and Commons. They wouldn’t have come to Hibs otherwise. Post updated to reflect that.

Im asking you many were Heckingbottom’s signings? There’s a thread crediting PH for the players scouted and signed by Mathie. It’s almost like some fans don’t understand what changes were made after relegation. They were pretty fundamental and in line with the contemporary European model.

As recently as this week Jack Ross said he wanted to keep Shaw. The next day he was sold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vault Boy

Or Lennon didn't sign Ambrose, Commons or Marciano etc. Not buying it either, I think it's very much a collaborative project.

---

Not to mention Kris Commons. Anyone else think Lennon's presence may have had something to do with that signing?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Lennon definitely used his contacts for Efe and Commons. They wouldn’t have come to Hibs otherwise

Im asking you many were Heckingbottom’s signings?

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I think they all were in as far as the club wouldn't sign them without his sign off/judgement. As for which players came from the commands of PH directly, I'm not privy to that, but Jackson wouldn't surprise me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoboHarry

Not to mention Kris Commons. Anyone else think Lennon's presence may have had something to do with that signing?

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I did say Commons, but yep it must have been the deciding influence.

I thought hecky signed Vela

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoboHarry

Not to mention Kris Commons. Anyone else think Lennon's presence may have had something to do with that signing?

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Me in my post above buddy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EAZY-ME

I thought hecky signed Vela

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Played for Lennon at Bolton. Was on Mathie’s radar already

Delete this rubbish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Me in my post above buddy

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Oh aye :greengrin.

The point of the recruitment department isn't to completely usurp the head coach. They provide names, data and evaluations on multiple players who fall within categories of what the HC wants.

The HC will give the department a list of attributes/positions, as well as some personal recommendations I'm sure. The department then works with their scouting data and breaks down the most suitable targets, the HC will then sign off the targets that they're most interested in. There's never a point where they'll sign a player without the HC's blessing, that's just not workable.

It's how most decent, modern clubs operate now and it makes sense, reducing that workload and responsibility on the 'manager' allows for greater specialisation and care, and whilst it's not been perfect, we've generally seen the benefits of that when comparing the last 5 years to the 5 that came before them.

But equally, we can't say that Heckingbottom didn't make any signings because of this, that's disingenuous. He will have signed off every player we brought in and gave very specific requests to the department.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 90+2

That’s complete rubbish. Lennon met up with McNulty in Queensferry last November to try and get him to sign.

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That’s a different point entirely. Leaving the HC to help seal the deal is a key part of the process at Hibs.

Gogs, that's not quite right regarding The Hibernian Way. There was nothing in that which prescribed how recruitment would or should be done.
In fact, if I remember from the presentation/pack there was nothing to say there should be a director of football etc either.


The Hibernian Way was about making sure there was a clear culture at the club, with clear targets (Success on the Pitch, Development of our club, Development of our players).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vault Boy

The point of the recruitment department isn't to completely usurp the head coach. They provide names, data and evaluations on multiple players who fall within categories of what the HC wants.

The HC will give the department a list of attributes/positions, as well as some personal recommendations I'm sure. The department then works with their scouting data and breaks down the most suitable targets, the HC will then sign off the targets that they're most interested in. There's never a point where they'll sign a player without the HC's blessing, that's just not workable.

It's how most decent, modern clubs operate now and it makes sense, reducing that workload and responsibility allows for greater specialisation and care, and whilst it's not been perfect, we've generally seen the benefits of that when comparing the last 5 years to the 5 that came before them.

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Well said that man, more eloquently put than my OP.

There was no suggestion that the HC wasn’t part of the process just that the manager role had disappeared with Butcher and his relegation squad. I much prefer the new model, it’s more strategic and avoids the old issue of a temporary manager leaving the squad full of ill-fitting duds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matty_f

Gogs, that's not quite right regarding The Hibernian Way. There was nothing in that which prescribed how recruitment would or should be done.

In fact, if I remember from the presentation/pack there was nothing to say there should be a director of football etc either.

The Hibernian Way was about making sure there was a clear culture at the club, with clear targets (Success on the Pitch, Development of our club, Development of our players).

---

Maybe not the final pack Matty but the CEO DOF combination was repeatedly discussed by Vision group reps with Brian Houston. The first thing Leeann did was bring in George Craig.

Our aim was to address the problem of faceless journeymen recruited by a manager replaced every season as happened with Mixu, Yogi, Fenton, Calderwood and Butcher.

But you were deeply involved in the culture change piece with the Trust and HSA reps so happy to stand corrected sir.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Well said that man, more eloquently put than my OP.

There was no suggestion that the HC wasn’t part of the process just that the manager role had disappeared with Butcher and his relegation squad. I much prefer the new model, it’s more strategic and avoids the old issue of a temporary manager leaving the squad full of ill-fitting duds.

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We definitely agree on the crux of the issue, I could see that from the bulk of your OP. I just don't agree that 'Hecky didn't sign a single player,' that's it really. I think there are a few examples of the HC pushing to sign one of 'their' players, even with the new system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vault Boy

We definitely agree on the crux of the issue, I could see that from the bulk of your OP. I just don't agree that 'Hecky didn't sign a single player,' that's it really. I think there are a few examples of the HC pushing to sign one of 'their' players, even with the new system.

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The thread title was a deliberate exaggeration to counter the other thread. Guilty as charged!

Dont believe it. No way we signed all those players in the summer, breaking the wage structure without PH wanting them.

So the 64000 dollar question why has Efe no signed?

Even on a short term contract in the last 13 months that he has been available

Why has Bogdan been hanging around Easter Road and kicking his heels since August busting a gut to sign?

Did he sign after Hecky left can’t remember?

Why did Jase say “ Hecky disnae want me “ when asked by a fan at Easter Road when up for an early season derby ( allegedly)

Why did Dylan no sign when he was wanting to come back ( once again allegedly)

So PH never signed Maxwell, Jackson, Vela, James,Newall, Doidge, Hallberg, Middleton and Naismith?

I wonder what Heckys thoughts were on Scott Allan as he definitely had no choice and for that matter Stevie Mallan who he very rarely used at Barnsley

Must have been a poisoned chalice for him having all those players he did not want

:confused:

The Head coach also has an input into who he doesn’t want, who underperforms on the pitch or in training. But he may also be overruled by Mathie who believes in the player more than the Head Coach.

That’s why Hibs abandoned the manager role and reduced the role to one of Head Coach. As a club we scout and recruit for the long term which more often than not lasts longer than the tenure of the HC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Well said that man, more eloquently put than my OP.

There was no suggestion that the HC wasn’t part of the process just that the manager role had disappeared with Butcher and his relegation squad. I much prefer the new model, it’s more strategic and avoids the old issue of a temporary manager leaving the squad full of ill-fitting duds.

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Ok you are making more sense now.

:aok:

Interesting that some of the English media expressed faux outrage when Liverpool implemented their current structure, which included a ‘transfer committee’ to decide on signings. Did the manager no longer have complete control over the squad?!

Funnily enough, they don’t seem so worried about now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

For the most part, neither did Lennon or Stubbs. Apart from their former players that is.

In 2014 after a revolving door of managers and faceless journeymen, the Hibs board accepted a proposal for a fundamental restructuring of the club. It was based upon a model designed by the Lets Work Together Vision group and known as The Hibernian Way’.

The Chairman’s executive responsibilities would end and a CEO appointed. LD had been targeted eight months earlier. A Director of Football would run the football operation and the CEO the business. The DOF would recruit a Head Coach and also scout and sign players that fitted the club profile and who would play the Hibs brand of attacking football.

Under that model there was still to be scope for Head Coach suggestions.For example Lennon wanted Vela. But ultimately the style of play and all the recruitment has been the responsibility of Graeme Mathie. The Head Coach is hired and fired by Mathie, not Dempster.

His summer recruits were sourced for a long term future at the club and in recent months we are starting to see what he and his team saw when they were scouted. So apart from Lennon’s Vela, they may yet all make the grade.

Credit where credit’s due to Mathie and his team. However jthe decision that Vela was a better DM than Bartley was a stinker of a call. That will be the last time he trusts the judgement of a Head Coach when it comes to a signing.

---

Are you pretending you’re a newspaper reporter?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Not In The Know

Are you pretending you’re a newspaper reporter?

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Newspaper reporters weren’t invited to meetings with directors and club management during the period 2012-2020. Fans were.

I accept that it was personal choice if they chose to attend to find out how the club was run behind the scenes.

The opportunity still exists today as do tours of East Mains. Questions put to management are answered unless they reveal anything that could show our hand on signing policy.

The behind the scenes video about Hibs recruitment that the Daily Record produced was clear that the final decision on any signing is down to the Head Coach. That came straight from George Craig's mouth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CB_NO3

The behind the scenes video about Hibs recruitment that the Daily Record produced was clear that the final decision on any signing is down to the Head Coach. That came straight from George Craig's mouth.

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If the Head Coach is adamant that he doesn’t want a player and can give solid justification eg after seeing him in training, he won’t be signed. That’s a completely different matter to scouting and signing.

The suggestion that the summer signings were all Heckingbottom finds is frankly laughable

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Played for Lennon at Bolton. Was on Mathie’s radar already

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Correct

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

If the Head Coach is adamant that he doesn’t want a player and can give solid justification eg after seeing him in training, he won’t be signed. That’s a completely different matter to scouting and signing.

The suggestion that the summer signings were all Heckingbottom finds is frankly laughable

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If the head coach doesn’t want someone then we don’t sign them. But it’s not up to the head coach? But it is if he doesn’t want them.

I’m glad this process is so transparent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by easty

If the head coach doesn’t want someone then we don’t sign them. But it’s not up to the head coach? But it is if he doesn’t want them.

I’m glad this process is so transparent.

---

Its more subtle. Read Vault Boy’s post above. This interview with Mathie gives some more insight

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/there-absolutely-will-be-additions-january-hibs-sporting-director-graeme-mathie-speaks-jack-ross-transfer-window-and-head-coach-selection-process-1279347%3Famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edi...t-898415%3Famp

This interview explains how Craig and Mathie carried out coach and player recruitment. Put simply, the longer a Head Coach is with us, and the better he performs, the more input he’s granted in player selection.

With one or two exceptions, Hecky wasn’t with us long enough to earn that status.

Ten managers or head coaches in twelve years is a terrible indictment.

Imagine the shambles we would get into if we gave every one of them carte blanche to ship the previous guys choices out and bring in all their own picks?

I was under the impression that Hecky had insisted that certain players were signed but that the Recruitment Team had advised against it but they were signed nonetheless?

As I’ve said numerous times before Hibs brought in 11/12 players in the summer I think? Only Hallberg and Naismith weren’t signed by PH.

Literally don’t know how many times I need to say this before people realise I’m telling them the truth!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS

I was under the impression that Hecky had insisted that certain players were signed but that the Recruitment Team had advised against it but they were signed nonetheless?

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True!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoalsMcGinley

As I’ve said numerous times before Hibs brought in 11/12 players in the summer I think? Only Hallberg and Naismith weren’t signed by PH.

Literally don’t know how many times I need to say this before people realise I’m telling them the truth!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

This

That is how I remember it

Great, more of this. Largely nonsense based on little understanding of how it actually works.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy74

Great, more of this. Largely nonsense based on little understanding of how it actually works.

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Pray enlighten us and kindly tell us who signed who in that case?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.edi...t-898415%3Famp

This interview explains how Craig and Mathie carried out coach and player recruitment. Put simply, the longer a Head Coach is with us, and the better he performs, the more input he’s granted in player selection.

With one or two exceptions, Hecky wasn’t with us long enough to earn that status.

Ten managers or head coaches in twelve years is a terrible indictment.

Imagine the shambles we would get into if we gave every one of them carte blanche to ship the previous guys choices out and bring in all their own picks?

---

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion from the linked article. It says nothing of the sort.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BILLYHIBS

Pray enlighten us and kindly tell us who signed who in that case?

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Hibs signed them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy74

Hibs signed them.

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Thanks for that


:thumbsup:

Nonsense thread

At the very least Jackson is clearly a Hecky signing. I get the idea though that Lennon and Hecky never bought in to the system at Hibs properly the way that Stubbs had.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by davhibby

At the very least Jackson is clearly a Hecky signing. I get the idea though that Lennon and Hecky never bought in to the system at Hibs properly the way that Stubbs had.

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Agree with that 100%. When out of a job, a manager will make out that he’s happy to accept the lesser role of Head Coach which is to do better with the squad he inherits and accept the recommendations of a recruitment department.

But once they’ve had a bit of success e.g Lennon (promotion) and Heckingbottom (strong finish to season) they feel in a stronger position to put their own stamp on things. If Hibs relent too much, we risk signing players that only last as long as the next Head Coach. For a club like Hibs on a limited budget we end up with losses in our player budgets and a permanently unsettled squad.

As fans, we want to see a settled team too, with a hard core of players who are proud to wear the green and with whom the supporters identify. Gray, Stevenson, Hanlon and Macgregor all fit that category. Marciano, Allan, Kamberi and Boyle are fan favourites to some degree. And Horgan, Omeonga and Doidge clearly love playing for Hibs. If the recruitment department can (as they clearly aim to do) convert loan deals to permanent contracts this should give us a strong core.

Lennon took Craig and Mathie on in relation to signing policy, wanting to get rid (Kamberi), scouting and injury treatment. As a Head Coach and not a manager, they weren’t prepared to give him a free reign. And with a performance of only 2 wins from 14, I’m not sure any DOF would have?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoalsMcGinley

As I’ve said numerous times before Hibs brought in 11/12 players in the summer I think? Only Hallberg and Naismith weren’t signed by PH.

Literally don’t know how many times I need to say this before people realise I’m telling them the truth!!

---

Donald Trump and Boris Johnston say the same thing over and over again without providing a shred of evidence to back up their claims. You may be right but what interviews, articles or quotes from club management can you provide to back up this assertion?

The title of your thread is wholly inaccurate and there are several more untruths in your OP. Why bother posting fake news on here? Its just nonsense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamig

The title of your thread is wholly inaccurate and there are several more untruths in your OP. Why bother posting fake news on here? Its just nonsense.

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Agree.

I thought the OP was quoting something from the official site but it turns out it's just his opinion.

Pointless really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..

I thought the OP was quoting something from the official site but it turns out it's just his opinion.

Pointless really.

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Far from it being my opinion buddy, I’ve submitted documented history from the restructure of the club, statements made from directors at club tours and links to interviews.

The thread title was deliberately provocative in order to encourage discussion.

Some of the replies (see Vault Boy) show a genuine understanding of club roles e.g. Director of Football, Head of recruitment and Head Coach.

Some others clearly understand the cooperation between the Recruitment department and the Head Coach with the latter’s influence over signings increasing as results improve.

Disappointingly many responses just shout ‘rubbish!’ (Trump-Style) from those stuck back in the ‘good old days’ when a manager did all his own scouting and signing and had 100% responsibility for players signed and released.

Apparently if you keep repeating these false statements often enough that makes them true

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Far from it being my opinion buddy, I’ve submitted documented history from the restructure of the club, statements made from directors at club tours and links to interviews.

The thread title was deliberately provocative in order to encourage discussion.

Some of the replies (see Vault Boy) show a genuine understanding of club roles e.g. Director of Football, Head of recruitment and Head Coach.

Some others clearly understand the cooperation between the Recruitment department and the Head Coach with the latter’s influence over signings increasing as results improve.

Disappointingly many responses just shout ‘rubbish!’ (Trump-Style) from those stuck back in the ‘good old days’ when a manager did all his own scouting and signing and had 100% responsibility for players signed and released.

Apparently if you keep repeating these false statements often enough that makes them true

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I know how the recruitment team work with the head coach. Your OP is nonsense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamig

I know how the recruitment team work with the head coach. Your OP is nonsense.

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Go on then. Explain what is historically incorrect about the 2014 restructuring of the club? If you can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Go on then. Explain what is historically incorrect about the 2014 restructuring of the club? If you can.

---

The bulk of the summer recruitments were not sourced by GMs guys. The head coach provides a list of requirements to the recruitment team. They then source candidates fitting that profile. These candidates are then presented to the head coach to decide if they want to take things further. The head coach can go with it or do his own thing - as happened in the summer with the majority of the signings.

There are a number of key indicators the team use to flag up prospective new signings and that list is being added to. The guys put in a power of work but the model isn’t rigid in so far as the head coach is stuck with their recommendations. That’s how it works at a high level and I don’t intend going into it in any more detail.

The thread title is ridiculous and plain wrong. You got your attention though.

I for one am going to shout nonsense because the system as supposedly implemented by Hibs is clearly not working & it still puzzles me how Mathie ended up being promoted following the summer transfer window.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Donald Trump and Boris Johnston say the same thing over and over again without providing a shred of evidence to back up their claims. You may be right but what interviews, articles or quotes from club management can you provide to back up this assertion?

---

Why would I name a source to then potentially never be told anything again? All you need to know is that it came from inside the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoalsMcGinley

Why would I name a source to then potentially never be told anything again? All you need to know is that it came from inside the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Exactly. Folk making wild assumptions off the back of MSM releases from more than five years ago.

Far too much made of the ‘recruitment team’ or whatever they’re called.

For as long as I can remember, clubs have employed folk who identify players and recommend them to the manager. It’s just that now, they have fancier job titles and do a lot of it on a computer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoalsMcGinley

Why would I name a source to then potentially never be told anything again? All you need to know is that it came from inside the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamig

Exactly. Folk making wild assumptions off the back of MSM releases from more than five years ago.

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Must be the same source as mine then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lago

I for one am going to shout nonsense because the system as supposedly implemented by Hibs is clearly not working & it still puzzles me how Mathie ended up being promoted following the summer transfer window.

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We’re not on the continent though. We have a continental style model but there is no club in this country who would sign players and ask the head coach to work with whoever they are given. It would also be a struggle hiring a head coach who’d sign up to that - unless it was someone who was used to working in that structure previously. The system works - as proven by Stubbs - but it needs the head coach/manager to buy in to it. The HC has to work together with the recruitment team. The system isn’t broken - more of a case of it not being fully utilised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamig

We’re not on the continent though. We have a continental style model but there is no club in this country who would sign players and ask the head coach to work with whoever they are given. It would also be a struggle hiring a head coach who’d sign up to that - unless it was someone who was used to working in that structure previously. The system works - as proven by Stubbs - but it needs the head coach/manager to buy in to it. The HC has to work together with the recruitment team. The system isn’t broken - more of a case of it not being fully utilised.

---

Mmmm.... Well let's hope Ross has bought into it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lago

Mmmm.... Well let's hope Ross has bought into it.

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I’ve heard he is very keen to work with it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamig

I’ve heard he is very keen to work with it.

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Good to know"'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RIP

For the most part, neither did Lennon or Stubbs. Apart from their former players that is.

In 2014 after a revolving door of managers and faceless journeymen, the Hibs board accepted a proposal for a fundamental restructuring of the club. It was based upon a model designed by the Lets Work Together Vision group and known as The Hibernian Way’.

The Chairman’s executive responsibilities would end and a CEO appointed. LD had been targeted eight months earlier. A Director of Football would run the football operation and the CEO the business. The DOF would recruit a Head Coach and also scout and sign players that fitted the club profile and who would play the Hibs brand of attacking football.

Under that model there was still to be scope for Head Coach suggestions.For example Lennon wanted Vela. But ultimately the style of play and all the recruitment has been the responsibility of Graeme Mathie. The Head Coach is hired and fired by Mathie, not Dempster.

His summer recruits were sourced for a long term future at the club and in recent months we are starting to see what he and his team saw when they were scouted. So apart from Lennon’s Vela, they may yet all make the grade.

Credit where credit’s due to Mathie and his team. However jthe decision that Vela was a better DM than Bartley was a stinker of a call. That will be the last time he trusts the judgement of a Head Coach when it comes to a signing.

---

Said the same thing a few weeks ago and got slated for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gaffer1875

Said the same thing a few weeks ago and got slated for it.

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As did the OP... who then backtracked and accepted HC still has a major say, but football dept does too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamig

The bulk of the summer recruitments were not sourced by GMs guys. The head coach provides a list of requirements to the recruitment team. They then source candidates fitting that profile. These candidates are then presented to the head coach to decide if they want to take things further. The head coach can go with it or do his own thing - as happened in the summer with the majority of the signings.

There are a number of key indicators the team use to flag up prospective new signings and that list is being added to. The guys put in a power of work but the model isn’t rigid in so far as the head coach is stuck with their recommendations. That’s how it works at a high level and I don’t intend going into it in any more detail.

The thread title is ridiculous and plain wrong. You got your attention though.

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Excellent summary Tamiig. I could have written that myself. But then others would have simply howled nonsense

However you have almost completely failed to point out any aspect of my first post about the restructuring of the club that is incorrect.. I am happy to stand corrected too as there may be some areas I’ve got a poor memory of from those meetings

George Craig was in place when Stubbs was here. Who takes the credit for the successful signings under his tenure? Does it really matter?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RIP

Excellent summary Tamiig. I could have written that myself. But then others would have simply howled nonsense

However you have almost completely failed to point out any aspect of my first post about the restructuring of the club that is incorrect.. I am happy to stand corrected too as there may be some areas I’ve got a poor memory of from those meetings

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Your penultimate para is wide of the mark. The first section around restructuring is fine. I said in my first reply to your OP there were a few untruths.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamig

Your penultimate para is wide of the mark. The first section around restructuring is fine. I said in my first reply to your OP there were a few untruths.

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Bartley also left of his own accord. There was no judgement between him and Vela.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tamig

Your penultimate para is wide of the mark. The first section around restructuring is fine. I said in my first reply to your OP there were a few untruths.

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That’s fine Tamig, mistakes rather than untruths.

On Bartley is it possible Lennon didn’t fancy him long term and had lined up Vela as replacement?

To be fair to the recruitment team they were on a mission to sign younger players to replace an ageing midfield and defence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andy74

Bartley also left of his own accord. There was no judgement between him and Vela.

---

He did, but because he knew Hecky clearly didn’t fancy him and I assume he wasn’t offered a new deal.

Don't really care who is to blame but it is pretty evident that our summer budget was blown on players who have spent the majority of their time warming the bench!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jacomo

He did, but because he knew Hecky clearly didn’t fancy him and I assume he wasn’t offered a new deal.

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Quite possible but it makes the OPs last sentence total conjecture. It’s all written as if we are being given the benefit of the truth.