Choose Life: Edinburgh's Battle Against AIDS

Did anyone else watch this documentary that has just finished on BBC One?

It was morbidly fascinating and was quite informative about a part of Edinburgh's history I'm aware of but woefully ignorant about the detail. It was interesting to see how wrong the Police got it, and heartening to hear the officers from the time acknowledge the fact and point out the futility of a 'war on drugs'. It was also interesting to see the ethical questions raised by the way blood was tested and the inability of the NHS to cope with the sheer scale of the issue.

A desperately sad watch but I'd recommend it. A well made, balanced documentary.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Did anyone else watch this documentary that has just finished on BBC One?

It was morbidly fascinating and was quite informative about a part of Edinburgh's history I'm aware of but woefully ignorant about the detail. It was interesting to see how wrong the Police got it, and heartening to hear the officers from the time acknowledge the fact and point out the futility of a 'war on drugs'. It was also interesting to see the ethical questions raised by the way blood was tested and the inability of the NHS to cope with the sheer scale of the issue.

A desperately sad watch but I'd recommend it. A well made, balanced documentary.

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I recorded it, will hopefully watch it over the next couple of days and am looking forward to it, albeit in a gruesome way.

Growing up in Edinburgh in my lifetime, it was a massive influence on my generation. The impact of heroin, the impact of HIV and AIDS. Fascinated to see it but appreciate it won’t be a cheery watch.

Is it on catchup?

J

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Did anyone else watch this documentary that has just finished on BBC One?

It was morbidly fascinating and was quite informative about a part of Edinburgh's history I'm aware of but woefully ignorant about the detail. It was interesting to see how wrong the Police got it, and heartening to hear the officers from the time acknowledge the fact and point out the futility of a 'war on drugs'. It was also interesting to see the ethical questions raised by the way blood was tested and the inability of the NHS to cope with the sheer scale of the issue.

A desperately sad watch but I'd recommend it. A well made, balanced documentary.

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An excellent documentary. It’s pretty sad that the lessons they learned in those 10 years weren’t taken to the next level as far as the war on drugs is concerned.
It was sad to watch and it hit my family hard but crazily I still watched with a feeling of nostalgia, seeing places I knew and hung around as a kid. The recovery to those areas has been massive.


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From '86 until '92 I went to Firrhill High School and when Milestone House opened (literally next door) we were blessed with folk diagnosed with AIDS visit us and speak to senior pupils about "their" story.
Young people being young people we were quite idealistic about things and these brave individuals were greeted with open arms, then, when an opportunity arose I actually went for a job at the age of 16 to work within the infectious diseases ward at the City Hospital (and by extension, Milestone House) but when the media and local community found out I and a handful of others had to be let go because of a backlash in regards to the use of young (willing) people and the contentious issue of HIV/AIDS.
People didn't just die from ignorance, but they were also denied legitimate help/support because of ignorance!

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Did anyone else watch this documentary that has just finished on BBC One?

It was morbidly fascinating and was quite informative about a part of Edinburgh's history I'm aware of but woefully ignorant about the detail. It was interesting to see how wrong the Police got it, and heartening to hear the officers from the time acknowledge the fact and point out the futility of a 'war on drugs'. It was also interesting to see the ethical questions raised by the way blood was tested and the inability of the NHS to cope with the sheer scale of the issue.

A desperately sad watch but I'd recommend it. A well made, balanced documentary.

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Just finished watching it, interesting stuff.

I’ve just watched it as well, it was a bit weird watching a film about something so horrible that was happening all around me at the time, but other than seeing it on the news from time to time I wasn’t really aware of it. Such a shame that all those lives were lost and are still being lost.

I recall working with an agency in the 80s. We were working with a removal company delivering some furniture and sent to a hospice for HIV patients. Some colleagues refused to go in. What I saw that day has stuck with me, so tragic seeing these people as there was no chance in those days.
On a happier note I am friends with Matt Sargent who has played with numerous punk bands, he has worked tirelessly on various projects including this https://louderthanwar.com/various-ar...-album-review/
Happy to say he has long passed the original prognosis and is still gigging away. Check out the list of people on the album, those of us of a certain age will recognise many of the names.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

From '86 until '92 I went to Firrhill High School and when Milestone House opened (literally next door) we were blessed with folk diagnosed with AIDS visit us and speak to senior pupils about "their" story.
Young people being young people we were quite idealistic about things and these brave individuals were greeted with open arms, then, when an opportunity arose I actually went for a job at the age of 16 to work within the infectious diseases ward at the City Hospital (and by extension, Milestone House) but when the media and local community found out I and a handful of others had to be let go because of a backlash in regards to the use of young (willing) people and the contentious issue of HIV/AIDS.
People didn't just die from ignorance, but they were also denied legitimate help/support because of ignorance!

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That is shocking re the ignorance, but sadly not surprising. If you were working in health the ignorance and discrimination around transmittable diseases was huge at that time. It also went beyond that. For example the discrimination and ignorance and lack of acknowledgement for human rights for people with mental health issues or those seen as having a learning disability.

Things have moved on a wee bit, not enough. Not as much as I suspect you or I would like.

Keep raising it as an issue every time you feel it is slipping. Someone will back you up. Anyone with a conscience will find the time or spare a post to back you up. Got to have faith in just keeping pushing the message.

It brought up a lot of memories for me, growing up on the ramps in my young to mid teenage years.
I actually remember adults in conversation saying "Send them tae an island "

It was so rife, it became the norm.
A knock on the door asking for a teaspoon was fairly regular.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

From '86 until '92 I went to Firrhill High School and when Milestone House opened (literally next door) we were blessed with folk diagnosed with AIDS visit us and speak to senior pupils about "their" story.
Young people being young people we were quite idealistic about things and these brave individuals were greeted with open arms, then, when an opportunity arose I actually went for a job at the age of 16 to work within the infectious diseases ward at the City Hospital (and by extension, Milestone House) but when the media and local community found out I and a handful of others had to be let go because of a backlash in regards to the use of young (willing) people and the contentious issue of HIV/AIDS.
People didn't just die from ignorance, but they were also denied legitimate help/support because of ignorance!

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I grew up in Colinton Mains. I started at St Marks Primary in 1991 and remember everyone getting sent home one day because a pupil had picked up a used needle in the playground, walked into the school and handed it to a teacher.

There was always people banging our door wanting my parents to sign petitions against Milestone House. Even when it became clear that HIV wasn't going to be transmitted by coughing or shaking hands there was still a wilful ignorance and talk of a 'plague on our doorsteps.'

On a somewhat unrelated note I got a huge pang of nostalgia seeing the old Oxgangs high flats and the playpark in Colinton Mains Park on the documentary. Many good memories of long summers days playing football for hours on end there.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

On a somewhat unrelated note I got a huge pang of nostalgia seeing the old Oxgangs high flats and the playpark in Colinton Mains Park on the documentary. Many good memories of long summers days playing football for hours on end there.

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Ha, yeah, I literally jumped off the couch when I seen that helter skelter, like you, great memories of spending long hot summers there on the pitches.
Re petitioning, you might be a bit too young to remember but there was also a rabid local (to Colinton Mains/Oxgangs)movement against the council moving in hundreds of families from Wester Hailes & North Edinburgh to the immediate area. Again, the fear of intravenous drug use and HIV were the drivers of the intolerance,,,, we really weren't that nice a society back then.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Ha, yeah, I literally jumped off the couch when I seen that helter skelter, like you, great memories of spending long hot summers there on the pitches.
Re petitioning, you might be a bit too young to remember but there was also a rabid local (to Colinton Mains/Oxgangs)movement against the council moving in hundreds of families from Wester Hailes & North Edinburgh to the immediate area. Again, the fear of intravenous drug use and HIV were the drivers of the intolerance,,,, we really weren't that nice a society back then.

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Mrs Ozyhibby is on the Corstorphine friendly village Facebook page and they are not slow to get the pitchforks out on that page. People are quick to rise up against any threat, real or imagined. I remember the fear around that time and can understand people’s reactions. I was in high school when the AIDS epidemic kicked off and people were terrified, especially when they realised it wasn’t just gay people and drugs users.


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I watched it and it brought back a lot of sad memories of people I knew who lost their lives through heroin addiction. I also don't think people realised how much the gay scene in Edinburgh boosted the Aides rise then, a massive cocktail of sharing needles and unprotected sex.

Watched it last night when it was on. Growing up in muirhouse during that period albeit quite a young lad I remember it being a bad place but last night brought home how bad it was. The alarming thing for me was at the end where they said there is a new HIV epidemic in Glasgow for the same reasons sharing needles it's so sad that lessons weren't learnt the first time round

Haven't seen it but remember only too clearly friends dying from sharing needles. I never used needles myself, but 2 of my 3 friends who did died. The third has no idea to this day as to how indiscriminate this terrible disease could be. He's been working for the last 30 years helping to counsel people still struggling with drug related issues and tells me it's as bad as it's ever been. Depressing indeed.

The heartbreaking thing for me was when they kept showing pictures of them as kids before they were addicted to heroin. They were just kids like we all were who made the wrong choices at the time. I often think what I would’ve done if I’d been a teenager at that time. Every generation has their thing with drugs, in the 60s it was lsd and the 70s mostly weed, in the 80s it was heroin, in the 90s it was ecstasy. I was very easily roped into the ecstasy culture in the 90s and I wonder if I’d been born earlier if I might’ve been just as easily roped into the heroin scene. It’s a scary thought, but at the time it would have been very similar.

It was a really interesting watch. I never really heard of the cheap flights before easyJet took off.

My wife works down west pilton/muirhouse and was really surprised when she mentioned a name. I thought the heroin would have taken him a long time ago.

I watched the documentary and it brought back a lot of memories of growing up in the early 80s in Edinburgh. There definitely was a fairly widely held view at the time that AIDS was God's punishment on homosexuality. It was seen by many as a gay disease so why should anyone care.

For all the problems we face in 2019 thankfully attitudes have changed massively compared to 40 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I grew up in Colinton Mains. I started at St Marks Primary in 1991 and remember everyone getting sent home one day because a pupil had picked up a used needle in the playground, walked into the school and handed it to a teacher.

There was always people banging our door wanting my parents to sign petitions against Milestone House. Even when it became clear that HIV wasn't going to be transmitted by coughing or shaking hands there was still a wilful ignorance and talk of a 'plague on our doorsteps.'

On a somewhat unrelated note I got a huge pang of nostalgia seeing the old Oxgangs high flats and the playpark in Colinton Mains Park on the documentary. Many good memories of long summers days playing football for hours on end there.

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Do you remember a certain member of our family trying to coerse us all to go to the local open meeting to try and stop getting Milestone House built? He was convinced that there were would be muggings, house breaking etc by the patients and their visiting relatives and friends trying to get money for drugs. Ignorance at it's best.

I didn't see it. Is it on BBC i-player?

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Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba

I didn't see it. Is it on BBC i-player?

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It is mate.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

The heartbreaking thing for me was when they kept showing pictures of them as kids before they were addicted to heroin. They were just kids like we all were who made the wrong choices at the time. I often think what I would’ve done if I’d been a teenager at that time. Every generation has their thing with drugs, in the 60s it was lsd and the 70s mostly weed, in the 80s it was heroin, in the 90s it was ecstasy. I was very easily roped into the ecstasy culture in the 90s and I wonder if I’d been born earlier if I might’ve been just as easily roped into the heroin scene. It’s a scary thought, but at the time it would have been very similar.

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You might've tried it out of curiosity but got out of there before developing a habit if you paid attention.

A decent snapshot of Thatcher's Scotland. It was ****ing dire for those at the bottom of the food chain.

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Originally Posted by Killiehibbie

You might've tried it out of curiosity but got out of there before developing a habit if you paid attention.

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I’d like to think so.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

A decent snapshot of Thatcher's Scotland. It was ****ing dire for those at the bottom of the food chain.

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Do you genuinely believe one person/cabinet created the environment for this affair?
From lack of opportunity, archaic policing, cheap availability of the drugs, health professionals a step behind,a then,unknown virus,,,,
It was a perfect storm, in the worst kind of way, but I'm not sure we can lay the blame at the feet of one person or government.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Do you genuinely believe one person/cabinet created the environment for this affair?
From lack of opportunity, archaic policing, cheap availability of the drugs, health professionals a step behind,a then,unknown virus,,,,
It was a perfect storm, in the worst kind of way, but I'm not sure we can lay the blame at the feet of one person or government.

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Where did I say all that?

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

It is mate.

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:aok:

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Where did I say all that?

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Maybe it's the pre-christmas sherry I might have had last night but I took "Thatcher's Scotland" as being the catalyst or driver for the then social issues that created the wildfire like spread of infection.
If you were simply using the name to highlight a period of time as we do with the Royal family of the day (Victorian/Georgian) then I hold my hand up and apologise for misinterpreting your post.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Maybe it's the pre-christmas sherry I might have had last night but I took "Thatcher's Scotland" as being the catalyst or driver for the then social issues that created the wildfire like spread of infection.
If you were simply using the name to highlight a period of time as we do with the Royal family of the day (Victorian/Georgian) then I hold my hand up and apologise for misinterpreting your post.

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I took it to mean the conditions people were living in. When you saw the clips from the area’s featured in the documentary I couldn’t believe that such a short time ago people were living in places like that. The whole area was so run down it was unbelievable. Even the woman in the film made comments about how much it had changed since then.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

I took it to mean the conditions people were living in. When you saw the clips from the area’s featured in the documentary I couldn’t believe that such a short time ago people were living in places like that. The whole area was so run down it was unbelievable. Even the woman in the film made comments about how much it had changed since then.

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You're probably correct, I think I just jumped in with both feet on Hibrandenburgs post as I'm a little frustrated with politics just now (who can blame me?) and like today, I think it's too easy to lay the responsibility on the lap of the governing party.
As for change, yes, there has been a lot of change since, one of the most notable was razing the high flats to the ground as they didn't lend themselves very well to social interaction. Whilst a lot of families may argue different and have fond memories, there were a lot of families & individuals isolated on those high floors.
Even today, there are local authority housing in shocking levels of disrepair. My brother was one of the last out of Sighthill high risers (Glenalmond) and now stays in Murrayburn. He's a middle flat, has damp coming through his walls and after heavy rain, there's a drip from his light fittings. The council, with the resource stress they're under have been very slow to remedy repairs. Couple that with half the tenants in his stair regular visitors to the local food Bank and the other half popping Zanex like smarties, you can imagine it not being the most brilliant place to reside.
Again, in 30 years time, we'll look back and wonder how this went on for so long.

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Originally Posted by lord bunberry

I took it to mean the conditions people were living in. When you saw the clips from the area’s featured in the documentary I couldn’t believe that such a short time ago people were living in places like that. The whole area was so run down it was unbelievable. Even the woman in the film made comments about how much it had changed since then.

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I lived in Drylaw and went to St. David’s school in 1975 and it wasn’t as bad then as it was about 5 years later. The drugs epidemic made it massively worse. All the ground floor houses were getting broken into all the time to the point that people just moved out and then they had to start boarding up the windows. At that point they were broken into again and used for shooting up or dealing. It wasn’t til about 1983/4 that the council spent millions on the area putting pitch roofs on everything and then started selling them off to owner occupiers. It got a lot better again after that.


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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

You're probably correct, I think I just jumped in with both feet on Hibrandenburgs post as I'm a little frustrated with politics just now (who can blame me?) and like today, I think it's too easy to lay the responsibility on the lap of the governing party.
As for change, yes, there has been a lot of change since, one of the most notable was razing the high flats to the ground as they didn't lend themselves very well to social interaction. Whilst a lot of families may argue different and have fond memories, there were a lot of families & individuals isolated on those high floors.
Even today, there are local authority housing in shocking levels of disrepair. My brother was one of the last out of Sighthill high risers (Glenalmond) and now stays in Murrayburn. He's a middle flat, has damp coming through his walls and after heavy rain, there's a drip from his light fittings. The council, with the resource stress they're under have been very slow to remedy repairs. Couple that with half the tenants in his stair regular visitors to the local food Bank and the other half popping Zanex like smarties, you can imagine it not being the most brilliant place to reside.
Again, in 30 years time, we'll look back and wonder how this went on for so long.

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I sincerely hope you’re last sentence is correct.

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Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales

Maybe it's the pre-christmas sherry I might have had last night but I took "Thatcher's Scotland" as being the catalyst or driver for the then social issues that created the wildfire like spread of infection.
If you were simply using the name to highlight a period of time as we do with the Royal family of the day (Victorian/Georgian) then I hold my hand up and apologise for misinterpreting your post.

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Fair dos and no harm done. I spent the most part of Thatcher's reign abroad and thus the changes were less gradual for me and more apparent as I only visited twice a year. Although Thatcher obviously can't be held to account for the spread of the epidemic, her government set the tone on how the authorities went about dealing with it. Some of the footage of Edinburgh in the documentary were downright depressing but that's how large parts of the city looked after years of neglect. We've got a lot to thank devolution for.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I lived in Drylaw and went to St. David’s school in 1975 and it wasn’t as bad then as it was about 5 years later. The drugs epidemic made it massively worse. All the ground floor houses were getting broken into all the time to the point that people just moved out and then they had to start boarding up the windows. At that point they were broken into again and used for shooting up or dealing. It wasn’t til about 1983/4 that the council spent millions on the area putting pitch roofs on everything and then started selling them off to owner occupiers. It got a lot better again after that.


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I hadn’t really thought about it that way, but I suppose it makes sense when you describe it like that. If people were moving out because of break ins and then drug users breaking in again and using the houses as drug dens it stands to reason that it’s going to have a massive effect on the area.

Just watched this. Scary to think this was all going round about me while I was growing up in Leith, I was oblivious to it all. The first I became aware of it was reading trainspotting.