Video refs to be rolled out

From the Weeg Herald -

THE Scottish FA joined the other three British football associations to approve the use of video assistant referees on a permanent basis.
VAR will be used at the World Cup this summer and will be rolled out to football leagues across the world thereafter, marking a fundamental change to the way football is played.
It comes after a meeting of football’s lawmakers unanimously approved the most monumental change to the rules of the game at the top level despite teething issues exposed in English football.
The controversial VAR system allows referees to review major decisions and has already been rolled out for use in the Bundesliga and Serie A this season.
Trials have already shown it will have a fundamental effect on the game, but there is serious concern it will undermine referees on the pitch, interrupt the flow of the game and cause confusion for players and fans.

The International Football Association Board - made up of the four home nations and Fifa – made the decision to introduce VAR following a two-year trial period at its annual general meeting at Fifa’s headquarters in Zurich on Saturday.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/resour...e=article-full
The Football Association was known to be in favour of VAR as well as the Irish FA. The Welsh FA had some reservations about the technology but the Scottish FA was known to be waiting until Saturday’s meeting to make its final decision.
But it emerged that the SFA joined the other three home nation football associations in supporting the VAR roll out.
The decision was unanimous, however, and was announced by the Gianni Infantino, the president of FIFA the world governing body of football,after a slightly delayed meeting.

Video review can overturn a "clear and obvious error" by match officials involving goals, penalty awards, red cards, and mistaken identity.
Now Fifa just need to go through the formality of including VAR in their competition rulebook at a meeting in Colombia later this month.
"As of today, video assistant referees are part of football and this is certainly very important news,'' said Mr Infantino, who chaired the meeting.
An IFAB statement read: "This landmark meeting, chaired by FIFA President Gianni Infantino, represents a new era for football with video assistance for referees helping to increase integrity and fairness in the game."
http://www.heraldscotland.com/resour...e=article-full
However, European football's governing body UEFA has already stated it will not use VAR in the Champions League or the Europa League next season, while the Premier League is not expected to consider introducing it until 2019 at the earliest due to ongoing confusion about how it is implemented.
But it is not without its critics, which culminated in the system being branded “an absolute shambles” during Tottenham Hotspur’s FA Cup fifth-round replay win over Rochdale on Wednesday night.
The Scottish FA had said in January that it was open to using VAR but had no plans to implement the system in this season's Scottish Cup and said there were concerns about affordability. But later indicated it VAR could be introduced for the quarter finals of next season's Scottish Cup.
The SPFL, who administer the senior Scottish leagues and League Cup, has previously ruled out using goal-line technology, saying that the cost is prohibitive.
The decision was presented with the results of independent analysis conducted by Belgian university KU Leuven.
"I would say to the fans, players and coaches that it will have an impact, a positive impact," said Mr Infantino. "That is what the results of the study show.
"From almost 1,000 live matches that were part of the experiment, the level of the accuracy increased from 93% to 99%. It's almost perfect.
"I was pretty much against it a couple of years ago but I studied it.
"We have looked into all the details and benefits it can bring. Of course, we need to speed up the reviews and the communication to the referees that are applying it but also for the general public."
The Scottish FA declined to comment on Saturday.



The line that stands out for me -

'........ but there is serious concern it will undermine referees on the pitch .....'

With some of the decisions we've had recently, anything that lessens the impact our refs have on games is a plus - poor/biased/bent whatever - the current crop of referees are extraordinarily poor !.

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Originally Posted by Deansy

Article


The line that stands out for me -

'........ but there is serious concern it will undermine referees on the pitch .....'

With some of the decisions we've had recently, anything that lessens the impact our refs have on games is a plus - poor/biased/bent whatever - the current crop of referees are extraordinarily poor !.

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It doesn't undermine them at all. Football needs to quit being so precious - it works on many other major sports (rugby, baseball, NFL etc) and will be a blessing in football as it will contribute to eradicating blatant cheating and controversial goals/decisions.

Referees are only human, and can only see so much. We should be giving them tools to help them do their job to their best potential, as we would any other profession. Especially when there's so much money riding on potential decisions etc.

The only thing undermining our referees as it stands is the lack of any kind of support from the authorities when the technology is readily available.

Once they streamline VAR it'll be great. But you can be sure once it's introduced in Scotland we'll never again score a goal in a derby that only just crosses the line.

The only thing undermining our referees is their inability to spot when the ball is over the line (Shaw) or what constitutes a penalty (Sevco game vs Killie game).

If the use of VAR helps get such decisions right then it's a good idea unless the cost is prohibitive. I presume the units are mobile so having eight would be sufficient to ensure every Premiership game and cup quarter final is covered. That ensures fairness in all competitions.

The Scottish Premiership could start with goal-line technology. Hibs have lost three points to Hearts on this issue in 2017-18 and also a a similar loss a few years back. That involves no delays or disruption.

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Originally Posted by RagingReality

Once they streamline VAR it'll be great. But you can be sure once it's introduced in Scotland we'll never again score a goal in a derby that only just crosses the line.

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Nah but no doubt Hearts will [emoji849]

Goal line technology is the more necessary but due to the costs involved doubt we'll see it in Scotland. It involves a regular licence payment to Fifa.

VAR needs to improve and it will get there. Is it only to work for televised matches? How many cameras are they likely to have at say Hamilton when a match is not being televised?

It would be great news if it happened here in this country. I would gladly sit half an hour later at the match making sure we get the right decisions.

Video-Evidence tells it exactly as it is - somethings our referees don't/can't/won't or would just rather not to for reasons unknown to anyone as they're not allowed to explain themselves publicly !. I think You can pretty much guarantee that as soon as VE kicks in, our referees will also start demanding that their voice be heard so that they can explain themselves re controversial decisions !. At the end of the day, Video isn't susceptible to money/bias/favouritism - AFAIC, there's only one winner !

Not sure how Sevco will ever win a league if VAR is introduced?[emoji6]


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It will change the game and stop the flow but is a necessary evil especially in Scotland.If we had it in our playoff v Falkirk we could have been promoted.

A welcome change for me. Just need the players to start behaving and show resect but everyone knows that won’t happen. In fact there needs to be a booking for any players hasseling the referee to use/review VAR. just bring in a 10min sin-bin for a booking at least then the opponents if the cheat would benefit not some random team in the future when the bookings points are totted up.

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Originally Posted by NadeAteMyLunch!

Nah but no doubt Hearts will [emoji849]

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Guaranteed.

Long over due.

Yes it’s has its issues but once they sort the minor issues out - video technology as other sports have shown must be used to help the game.

A few years too late for Hibs after all the goals not given for us but the game will benefit.

Surely over time the costs will go down to install in every top league club.

Also they should add microphones to the refs and be more respectful like rugby which is long over due and will help grassroots football with role models etc.

I'd prefer our refereeing standards to be higher than resorting to technology but 30 years of going to the football tells me that's the standard and it's not going to get any better.
Concerns have been raised down south about televised games going to ad breaks whilst VAR decisions are being made. That'd be the game dead for me in all honesty.
If they get it right it'd be great but I think it's risky because I don't trust our football authorities to do anything right.

Sorry if it's been covered, but what decisions will VAR deal with? Goals, penalties, red cards, offsides, yellow cards, free kicks, corners, throw ins?

I'm not convinced by VAR if I'm honest (although I've tended to avoid posting about it on threads since the Shaw incident) but if it's coming in I obviously hope it's a success.

They also need to make it inclusive for those watching in the stadium.

It can’t be just for those watching on TV back home.

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Originally Posted by Waxy

It will change the game and stop the flow but is a necessary evil especially in Scotland.If we had it in our playoff v Falkirk we could have been promoted.

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And we would have had our equaliser in the Cup Final disallowed for the push by Stokes [emoji16][emoji16]

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I am split on this.

On the one hand our referees make an awful lot of mistakes and are insufficiently consistent. With television at almost all games and the ability to slow mo and replay ad nauseum we are more aware of the mistakes which are made and able to say what a bad decision it was; this is compounded by the free manner in which we are able to comment through the various social media. The management of the game on the pitch though is still carried out in the same way in which it was done before all that and as a result I don't think refs are properly equipped to properly officiate the games. That is not to say that I think the whole problem is solely because of our ability to see the error of the whistlers ways - they need to be better trained and to be better able to make the right decision consistently. This all adds up to a lack of belief in the integrity of the game and in particular in the officials in charge of the game both on and off the pitch. Therefore I think VAR would probably contribute to an improvement in the game

The other side for me is though that I think that VAR - as I see it in rugby - does allow the ref to step away from taking charge and responsibility for the game and an over reliance on putting decisions to the Video which shifts responsibility. This all slows the game down and the thing i really like about football is it is a fast moving game which ebbs and flows (normally). We already complain about the over involvement of refs in some games ruining the spectacle and I do wonder if this might increase. That said, the constant bad decisions made by refs has had the same effect. Where rugby has it right though is that Refs have the ability to stop dissent and reinforce their authority by for example pushing the offending team back a further 10m, and an open mic which allows TV and spectators to hear what they are saying and the reason for their decisions. It would also be interesting to see how long games with VAR last in comparison to games without, I think our refs would refer as much as possible so we still need to make sure that we have a better quality of referee VAR cannot improve that.

I think on balance I would be in favour VAR but only if introduced in tandem with some of the ref powers such as they have in rugby, 10 minute sin bins, retreat additional 10ms, open ref mics etc and a more rigorous training, supervision and testing regime for Refs and Ref game reports being made public immediately after games.

Great.

Officials are only human and need help, simple as that.

It's the only way forward.

The focus now needs to be improving the system (particularly the speed), ensuring fans at the game are communicated with and know what's going on, and making it more affordable so it can expand beyond the big European leagues.

I’m really not a fan of this, I appreciate that I’m probably in the minority though!

Personally, I think that the standard of scottish refereeing is poor, it’s worst I’ve seen it!

VAR for me though, takes the emotion away from the game. i am a season ticket holder who attends a few away games too. I think this ruins live football. There is nothing better than scoring a goal be celebrating straight away, or a challenge being won and cheering because your player has got the ball (and hopefully if playing hearts, the man as well) when referees pause the game to make a call on these decisions it takes away that excitement.

We have been done a fair few times, and I can understand that people want this in place to avoid it happening again. We aren’t the only team that’s been done though!

Refereeing decisions along with good football give people something to talk about at work or in the pub. Sometimes you get a laugh from seeing certain other teams fall victim to some horrendous decision. It’s the same for every club. Although some may argue that the treatment of some clubs vs others is different, such as rangers and Celtic getting decisions in their favour at home - which yes can be the case.

Football in Scotland is driven by the passion of the fans, I think introducing VAR makes the game a bit more boring.

That and poor refereeing gives us something/someone to moan at when we have just had a stinker of a game.

I get it might be an old school opinion. Just think it’s technology that will take an edge of the game.

All for goal line technology though 😅

I'm torn on this tbh. I can see the reasons why people want it but I'm probably in the group that would rather it wasn't integrated to our game

One of the biggest concerns I have is that yes it will be able to call offside or where a ball crosses the line because there's no real grey area here.

It's where there's a debatable decision. We see pundits analysing games and calling decisions completely different. So how will we eradicate that? All we're doing is shifting it to someone who is sitting in a studio - who can see it from various angles but might still baffle us with their call?

I tend to agree with JoHibs on the point of the fast flowing game. Somehow you can guarantee teams would manipulate it to slow the game down or waste time.

With VAR, we now have the death of the goal celebration.

Every goal will now be looked at by the ref to make sure nobody sneezed near an opponent.

Watching Spurs the other night, the players and fans didn't celebrate normally after they'd scored, as a direct result of the ref waiting for clearance to award the goals.

FFS can you imagine a derby game or a game with the bigots, they will be at the ref all game to look at every incident, we could still be sitting in the ground at 6pm.

And more importantly, i wouldn't trust any of the old duffers we have stuck in the stand, to be A honest, and B good enough to get anything right.

Goal line technology i give a big thumbs up too, but VAR fills me with the fear.

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

With VAR, we now have the death of the goal celebration.

Every goal will now be looked at by the ref to make sure nobody sneezed near an opponent.

Watching Spurs the other night, the players and fans didn't celebrate normally after they'd scored, as a direct result of the ref waiting for clearance to award the goals.

FFS can you imagine a derby game or a game with the bigots, they will be at the ref all game to look at every incident, we could still be sitting in the ground at 6pm.

And more importantly, i wouldn't trust any of the old duffers we have stuck in the stand, to be A honest, and B good enough to get anything right.

Goal line technology i give a big thumbs up too, but VAR fills me with the fear.

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Agree 100%

It’s been used in Oz for a few months now, and was an absolute pain in the beginning, holding up play for ages.

However as everything settled down, it isn’t too bad, although the danger still exists that ‘getting it right’ can impact on spectator enjoyment as has been pointed out....mental goal celebrations may be postponed for a couple of minutes.

Still doesn’t solve every decision though......tonight for example even after viewing an incident from the Western Sydney Wanderers v Perth Glory game, the studio panel couldn’t agree on whether it was a free kick, a dive, or a red card,

Disputes will still arise as a result of the human judgements.

Don't think we'll see it any time soon in Scotland.

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Originally Posted by RagingReality

Once they streamline VAR it'll be great. But you can be sure once it's introduced in Scotland we'll never again score a goal in a derby that only just crosses the line.

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Absolute stick on certainty that the first application of VAR rules in a game involving us favours the gunts or continues the pattern of unfavourably affecting us.

Come on Paddy Power get a book up on that it will be free money

I'm totally in favour of anything that makes our game fairer, technology should do that but why are we talking about this before the introduction of full time professional referees? I know refs over the last few years (and beyond) have made some horrendous decisions, some of which I still can't believe actually happened, but is this not what we can expect when even our top refs are still just amateurs? A body of say 10 full-time pros would be a leap forward and would see some of the crazier decisions become fewer.

1st, where is the money for VAR coming from?
2nd, if 90 pecent of Scotland supports the old firm, who is going to be the VAR referee?
At the moment, we have been subject to some very dodgy decisions, do you honestly think by looking at a monitor is going to change anything?
Think back, an Arsenal player was deemed to have dived for a penalty against Celtic, after looking at the video the player was brought down by a puff of wing in the Celtic players shirt????
Just yesterday, Celtic get a penalty when clearly it was outside the box, the pundit said it was a penalty and even after the commentator said it was outside the box the pundit said it again that it was a definite penalty???
So for my way of thinking nothing will change, and it would be a total waste of money we can ill afford to spend!!!!

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Originally Posted by jgl07

The Scottish Premiership could start with goal-line technology. Hibs have lost three points to Hearts on this issue in 2017-18 and also a a similar loss a few years back. That involves no delays or disruption.

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Aye. Start and finish with goalline technology. Was it a goal or no? Never mind the rest of it.

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Originally Posted by heretoday

Aye. Start and finish with goalline technology. Was it a goal or no? Never mind the rest of it.

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Just had a quick look on line for price of installing goal line technology, it says per stadium $260,000 and $3,900 for each game.

The Uglies could get it tomorrow, the rest of us would just have to dream, some clubs could not afford $3,900 per game fee never mind installing it to use!!!!!

The article says that the IFA board, which governs the rules of football, has approved VAR as an option in all FIFA recognised competition. It doesn’t say it will be used in Scotland any time soon.

Due to historical anomaly, the 4 British associations have permanent seats on the IFA board, hence the confusion.

I think for VAR to work, the ref on the park still has to be the one calling the shots. If they they couldn't tell something specific, they can have it verified by asking the question. "Did the ball cross the line?", "Did his hand move toward the ball?", "Was it played forward by the attacker?" Etc.

None of the rugby nonsense of "is there any reason I can't give the try/goal?".

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Originally Posted by bernz

I think for VAR to work, the ref on the park still has to be the one calling the shots. If they they couldn't tell something specific, they can have it verified by asking the question. "Did the ball cross the line?", "Did his hand move toward the ball?", "Was it played forward by the attacker?" Etc.

None of the rugby nonsense of "is there any reason I can't give the try/goal?".

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You just know they'll be asking "Do you think I can get away with not awarding a penalty against The Rangers?"

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Originally Posted by bernz

I think for VAR to work, the ref on the park still has to be the one calling the shots. If they they couldn't tell something specific, they can have it verified by asking the question. "Did the ball cross the line?", "Did his hand move toward the ball?", "Was it played forward by the attacker?" Etc.

None of the rugby nonsense of "is there any reason I can't give the try/goal?".

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Don’t think it is nonsense.The ref says what he’s doing and asks if there’s any reason for not doing it or he asks a specific question regarding a passage of play.The big difference with rugby is that this takes place when the game is stopped.You can’t have someone trying to award a penalty when the game is going on.Anyway it won’t happen here because there’s no money to do it and some of the grounds don’t have the facilities for varied camera angles.

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Originally Posted by ancient hibee

Don’t think it is nonsense.The ref says what he’s doing and asks if there’s any reason for not doing it or he asks a specific question regarding a passage of play.The big difference with rugby is that this takes place when the game is stopped.You can’t have someone trying to award a penalty when the game is going on.Anyway it won’t happen here because there’s no money to do it and some of the grounds don’t have the facilities for varied camera angles.

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Fair enough, it works in rugby, but it would be a nonsense in football. If the question was is there any reason I can't award a goal, there would be some debatable occurrence in the lead up to about 90% of goals. Football is too subjective.

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Originally Posted by bernz

Fair enough, it works in rugby, but it would be a nonsense in football. If the question was is there any reason I can't award a goal, there would be some debatable occurrence in the lead up to about 90% of goals. Football is too subjective.

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It's the same in rugby as they can only go back two phases.

Football should take a leaf from cricket. Use it only for matters of fact and if there is any dubiety then the referee's original call stands. Put a time limit of one minute on the review as well. If they can't find any clear and obvious in that time then it can't be clear and obvious.