Hibs Casuals and The 2 books

Firsly let me put my tin hat on. :wink:

Looking around the airport book shop a couple of weeks ago for something to read on the plane, I stumbled across a copy of "These Colours dont run", by Derek Dykes. A couple of years ago I read Hibs Boy, and was intrigued to see the difference, if any, in the stories. The other thought was that during the early 80s and through the 90s, I never missed many matches, home or away, and it would be good to reminisce. Overall there was lots of similarities between the 2 books, but TCDR had a lot more humour, even although the majority of the stories were about violence, as you would expect.

I actually enjoyed TCDR. It was light reading, mentioned loads of matches I'd attended, and brought back lots of memories. It got me thinking about how I reacted during the "casual" era, and although I was not part of it, it was suddenly fashionable to wear decent gear to matches, and stop wearing colours.
It seemed easier going to Ibrox, Parkhead, and Tynecastle with no colours, and there is no doubt that was due to the fact that although my mates and I were not associated with the casual movement, looking like them to opposing supporters was no bad thing, although you did get more attention from Stewards and Police. The other thing that got me on Derek Dykes side, was that he was at pains to stress that violence was almost always against other groups and pre- arranged. For me personally, attending many of the games he talks about, I honestly cant remember seeing much trouble.

So, how did I feel about the CCS? Probably glad that it seems to have disappeared, but left with a strange pride that they were seen as No.1, and that most of the guys who were part of it, have grown into men, and are still big Hibbys who attend the majority of the games.

Would be interesting to hear others views, and yes the tin hat is now securely fastened!.

The casual element was as he put, likeminded people engaging in a likeminded venture, i for one am happy these guys were around, saved me a couple of times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Aberdeen and Ibrox namely since the casuals came along they gave a certain security at games. I read both books and enjoyed them as well.

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Originally Posted by Ferryhibby

The casual element was as he put, likeminded people engaging in a likeminded venture, i for one am happy these guys were around, saved me a couple of times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Aberdeen and Ibrox namely since the casuals came along they gave a certain security at games. I read both books and enjoyed them as well.

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But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

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Originally Posted by Carheenlea

I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

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With all respect how do you know bloody casuals wasn't sensationlised if you weren't involved. I could say that colours was the same and I wasn't involved either.

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Originally Posted by Wembley67

With all respect how do you know bloody casuals wasn't sensationlised if you weren't involved. I could say that colours was the same and I wasn't involved either.

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Obviously I don`t, but I felt there was a bit of honesty about the book. Having read a few books on the subject, you could be reading the same book each time, as they seem to copy the writing style and adopt the tough-guy dialogue.

"Bloody Casuals" captured the scene in it`s infancy, and also focused a lot on the fashions, music and camaraderie, not just ugly violence. But of course, I can`t say for certain that the book was not sensationalised, it just didn`t feel that way to me.

Those who could write with authority about the 'scene' in an engaging, thought provoking and stereotype challenging manner are very unlikely to ever do so as either / and it would be mis-interpreted / they would not want associated with that particular part of their past in that way........

Having read a good few of the books in the so-called 'hooly-lit' genre, THIS is one that stands out for me. (Although in fairness it is more of a thesis)

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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Originally Posted by Carheenlea

I have both books mentioned, and while they are both interesting enough reads in the sense that I was at many of the matches featured and am of that age when the casuals scene was at it`s peak in my youth, they are not the best books on the subject.

The best two books I have read on the subject are "Bloody Casuals" by Jay Allen, an Aberdeen casual, which was maybe the first book written on the subject, and did not have the sensationalism, exaggeration and even fantasy that seems to be the hallmark of the all too many books on the subject these days. The other one was "Among the Thugs", by Bill Buford, who was a journalist who got involved with English casuals and even the far right for a fascinating insight.

I was never into the casuals myself, a combination of lack of the sartorial style adopted, and having no bottle whatsoever for fighting ruled me out..

There was no doubt though, that visits to Ibrox and Celtic Park became safer outings for the travelling Hibs fans. The fact that the CCS had a big reputation was only really the half of it though, the heavier police presence when Hibs were in town was probably the main reason.

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I read a book a while back by an Aberdeen Casual which was brilliant - think it might have been this one - talks fondly of the trip to Gothenburg for CWC Final (which sounded amazing) and he ended up in Jail for a bit as well (which sounded slightly less fun) ??

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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sometimes you don't know weather to laugh or cry

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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:tee hee:

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Originally Posted by Jack

But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

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:agree:

The casuals will never get admiration or thanks from me - they spoiled football for me and hundreds of other Hibbies in the 80's

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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:hmmm::dunno:

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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Is this post for real?

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Originally Posted by TwoCarpets

Is this post for real?

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Surely the Danny Dyer/Ross Kemp bit makes it clear that it isn't?

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Originally Posted by TwoCarpets

Is this post for real?

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Are you for real ? come on, a training camp in Princess street gardens :faf:

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Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish

Surely the Danny Dyer/Ross Kemp bit makes it clear that it isn't?

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Yup that sealed it, I was a wee bitty undecided with SAS gadgey Fishcakes. :greengrin

Phil Thronton's book Casuals also has a Hibs contribution by Cameron C Strachan

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Originally Posted by lucky

Are you for real ? come on, a training camp in Princess street gardens :faf:

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Ah, good point well made - too early for me...:embarrass:blushie::clown:

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Originally Posted by TwoCarpets

Is this post for real?

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Whooooooooooooooosh

thought both books were good and told it how it was.

We could do with one more book though, till fill the gap on the B.B.C. years :wink:

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Originally Posted by Jack

But then if there were no 'likeminded' folk on either side it would have been safer for the vast majority who were not likeminded.
.
Lets not kid ourselves these guys did football or Hibs any favours.

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It's the old "East End of London was safer with the Krays about" syndrome isn't it?

Absolute nonsense. As if these morons had the ability or sensitivity to ensure innocent bystanders came to no harm.

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Originally Posted by Hibees1173

Firsly let me put my tin hat on. :wink:

Looking around the airport book shop a couple of weeks ago for something to read on the plane, I stumbled across a copy of "These Colours dont run", by Derek Dykes. A couple of years ago I read Hibs Boy, and was intrigued to see the difference, if any, in the stories. The other thought was that during the early 80s and through the 90s, I never missed many matches, home or away, and it would be good to reminisce. Overall there was lots of similarities between the 2 books, but TCDR had a lot more humour, even although the majority of the stories were about violence, as you would expect.

I actually enjoyed TCDR. It was light reading, mentioned loads of matches I'd attended, and brought back lots of memories. It got me thinking about how I reacted during the "casual" era, and although I was not part of it, it was suddenly fashionable to wear decent gear to matches, and stop wearing colours.
It seemed easier going to Ibrox, Parkhead, and Tynecastle with no colours, and there is no doubt that was due to the fact that although my mates and I were not associated with the casual movement, looking like them to opposing supporters was no bad thing, although you did get more attention from Stewards and Police. The other thing that got me on Derek Dykes side, was that he was at pains to stress that violence was almost always against other groups and pre- arranged. For me personally, attending many of the games he talks about, I honestly cant remember seeing much trouble.

So, how did I feel about the CCS? Probably glad that it seems to have disappeared, but left with a strange pride that they were seen as No.1, and that most of the guys who were part of it, have grown into men, and are still big Hibbys who attend the majority of the games.

Would be interesting to hear others views, and yes the tin hat is now securely fastened!.

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I wouldn't say that it has disappeared. There are still plenty off arranged fights involving the CCS (i.e Motherwell away 4 weeks ago). In no way near the level that it used to be.... but it still happens.

Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

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I disagree, I've only been in trouble through football in the 80s, all involving Hibs other than a couple of Scotland games

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

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Disagree with this. Everybody is different. Some would certainly look for bother anywhere, others it would make no sense to do so outside the context of football.

The truth is that football and hooliganism have been inextricably linked in this country from day one. That's not to justify it; merely to state a historical fact.

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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Originally Posted by TwoCarpets

Is this post for real?

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I though DC's post was the funniest thing I had read all day until I saw your post, TwoCarpets!

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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:hilarious

:top marks

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

Admin, shouldn't this be NHC? The casuals had f'all to do with Hibs. If Hibs hadn't been around, or even football itself, your average bunch of delinquents, educated or otherwise, would've found something else they could attach their thuggery to, wanted or not.

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If they were season ticket holders (and the vast majority were / still are) then I would argue they have definitely to do with Hibs.

If Hibs season ticket holders have f'all to do with Hibs then who does?

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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Was that Hibsbollah Training camps by any chance? Top man was Ayatollah Dougan.

Always thought The 12th Man initiative should have been known as Hibsbollah. No doubt it was deemed to be politically incorrect.

Colin
Calderwood's
Spunkers

***** as in the "full of life" meaning. :agree:

:cgwa

Thugs are a stain on our club's name. Just glad it's ancient history & hope it stay that way.
GG

In my travels over the years when mentioning the fact that I am a Hibs fan, invariably the reply would be "They had the best casuals eh?". I'd have rather they wanted to talk about the Hibs footballing flairmeisters!

I really quite disliked the casuals at the time but somehow now feel quite nostalgic thinking back to those days.:agree:

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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Freddie was a legend. Twas reputedly he who trained top boy Tommy Ten Pies, who splattered fifty Rangers fans at Ibrox to get to front of the queue at the pie stand. Also cleared a entire street of Dundee Utility who had blocked his way to the Chinky takeaway in Hilltown. Blanche and Dykes would sabotage the catering trolley on the Scotrail so that Tommy would be utterly demented, in a rather beastly rage, and therfeore ready to attack anything when the train pulled up.

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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:top marks

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Originally Posted by scoopyboy

If they were season ticket holders (and the vast majority were / still are) then I would argue they have definitely to do with Hibs.

If Hibs season ticket holders have f'all to do with Hibs then who does?

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because they were/are thugs looking for a scrap. Whatever Hibs might describe themselves as, they will never describe themselves as a focal point for thugs to do what thugs do. The thugs have f'all to do with Hibs.

By your reasoning; some guy goes to a Hibs game, gets bladdered, drives home, knocks over some kid, and has his Hibs season ticket in his back pocket. What's that got to do with Hibs? That's right, f'all.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

because they were/are thugs looking for a scrap. Whatever Hibs might describe themselves as, they will never describe themselves as a focal point for thugs to do what thugs do. The thugs have f'all to do with Hibs.

By your reasoning; some guy goes to a Hibs game, gets bladdered, drives home, knocks over some kid, and has his Hibs season ticket in his back pocket. What's that got to do with Hibs? That's right, f'all.

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Different perceptions of what football meant back then I suppose.
The backdrop was that football hooliganism was commonplace, not right but it was a different time. Football specials, scarves tied on wrists, men singing get your tits out for the lads any time they saw a female and pissing in the streets.

The alternative was looking great, getting to Glasgow, and standing up for yourselves and getting a result regardless of how the team did. I know which one I preferred.

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Originally Posted by DC_Hibs

My mate Freddie Fishcakes (retired SAS) used to run the CCS training camps in Princes St Gardens back in the day. He reckons some of these "Hibernian soldiers" would give the cream of British special forces a run for their money in most methods of combat and were also on a par with Danny Dyer, Ross Kemp and the likes when it came to basic street fighting.

By the way mere mortals, he knows what he's talking about and doesnt give praise lightly.

p.s He reckons this site is absolute mince.

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Ah yes, happy days there were so many factions as well, my personal favourites were Brigadier General(retd.) Clive "Crusty" Cohen's band of marauding Hibernian Bounders, as they were known.

They were the elite of hooliganism of the time, membership being restricted to the over 70's.

Their motto "to boldly go - so long as it's not too nippy outside" struck fear into the hearts of hooligans the world over. Travelling Hibs fans everywhere felt secure knowing that if trouble struck a simple call on the batphone would see their saviours descend.

Their training sessions in the Figgate Park were watched by crowds of at least 4 and seeing the Brigadier General (Retd.) going downhill at full pelt in his wheelchair in pursuit of the rounders ball must have struck fear into the heart of even the hardest Glasgow Bear. Heady days indeed.

I remember old Crusty saying on his death bed that if the internet existed and sites like Hibs.net had been invented in his day, he also would have thought it was sh@te so it seems that like Freddie there is is a certain common bond that unites hooligans young and old.

Actually I had the misfortune to get caught up in a few tangles with a few "fans" with no obvious Hibs colours on and I thought then, as I do now that we were better of without romanticising them.

I am going to the pub.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

because they were/are thugs looking for a scrap. Whatever Hibs might describe themselves as, they will never describe themselves as a focal point for thugs to do what thugs do. The thugs have f'all to do with Hibs.

By your reasoning; some guy goes to a Hibs game, gets bladdered, drives home, knocks over some kid, and has his Hibs season ticket in his back pocket. What's that got to do with Hibs? That's right, f'all.

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That is not 'reasoning'.That is a blethering over reaction that ignores the point made.

i'm thinking about writing a book about my experiences as a junior member of 'Eddie Turnbull's Soccer Hooligans'...we weren't as hard as the casuals and we got battered wherever we went...thats when anyone could catch us....i remember getting battered at tynie,partick,dundee,parkhead,ibrox and killie amongst others...our bus windows were frequently smashed while we cowered in fear(the 3 finals of 79 were particulary good days for autoglass repair companies)...i even remember the bus getting smashed in inverness after a pre season match in 78...we were rubbish at being hard so i welcomed the cashies and i could retire from being a hooligan...

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Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling

That is not 'reasoning'.That is a blethering over reaction that ignores the point made.

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The point made was thug has a season ticket at Hibs, therefore his thuggery is somehow a Hibs thing. That's blethering.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

The point made was thug has a season ticket at Hibs, therefore his thuggery is somehow a Hibs thing. That's blethering.

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No.
These 'thugs' were Hibbies, had season tickets (some still do)and ergo, had some affinity with Hibs.
You made up a lot of ***** about a drunk driver.

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Originally Posted by fat freddy

i'm thinking about writing a book about my experiences as a junior member of 'Eddie Turnbull's Soccer Hooligans'...we weren't as hard as the casuals and we got battered wherever we went...thats when anyone could catch us....i remember getting battered at tynie,partick,dundee,parkhead,ibrox and killie amongst others...our bus windows were frequently smashed while we cowered in fear(the 3 finals of 79 were particulary good days for autoglass repair companies)...i even remember the bus getting smashed in inverness after a pre season match in 78...we were rubbish at being hard so i welcomed the cashies and i could retire from being a hooligan...

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:greengrin Ha ha, Brilliant :thumbsup: I do remember after the first replay in 79 getting ambushed on the train and big lumps of concrete getting lobbed at us. There was some outstanding cowering and world class gesturing back at them after the train pulled away from under the bridge!

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Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling

No.
These 'thugs' were Hibbies, had season tickets (some still do)and ergo, had some affinity with Hibs.
You made up a lot of ***** about a drunk driver.

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F's sake, do the i's need dotted and the t's crossed? It was a load of made up **** to make the point that being a thug with a Hibs season ticket doesn't in any way mean your thuggery is anything other than thuggery. It's f'all to do with Hibs.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

F's sake, do the i's need dotted and the t's crossed? It was a load of made up **** to make the point that being a thug with a Hibs season ticket doesn't in any way mean your thuggery is anything other than thuggery. It's f'all to do with Hibs.

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I realise you might be grasping at the intellectual high ground there, but there is really no need to cross t's or dot i's if you are making up ***** is there?

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Originally Posted by Hamilton Handling

I realise you might be grasping at the intellectual high ground there, but there is really no need to cross t's or dot i's if you are making up ***** is there?

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No, not really, esp. when written English is wasted on you.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

No, not really, esp. when written English is wasted on you.

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Child you are so right. I should make up ***** like you do.

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Originally Posted by Ferryhibby

The casual element was as he put, likeminded people engaging in a likeminded venture, i for one am happy these guys were around, saved me a couple of times, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Aberdeen and Ibrox namely since the casuals came along they gave a certain security at games. I read both books and enjoyed them as well.

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Me too, I mind being in the Balgreen Fryer (or whatever it was caled back then) beside the wheatsheaf after the Aberdeen SC Semi at Tynie. I was only around 13/14 and there was about 10 Aberdeen fans started on me (just because I had a Hibs scarf on). 2 Hibs boys flattened the lot of them and for that I am gratefull.:agree: While I don't agree with the pre arranged stuff, they certainly looked after their own.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

F's sake, do the i's need dotted and the t's crossed? It was a load of made up **** to make the point that being a thug with a Hibs season ticket doesn't in any way mean your thuggery is anything other than thuggery. It's f'all to do with Hibs.

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Right then hot shot.

If season holders have got f'all to do with Hibs, answer me this.

What is a Hibby and how do you become one?

Forget drunk drivers, dead easy to be destructive ,here is your chance to be constructive.

Walking to Hampden for the Skol League Cup semi against the Huns when about a hundred Rangers boys steamed out of the tower blocks, firing flares and throwing stones and bottles. The CCS ploughed into them clearing the way for me and my mates to walk the rest of the way in peace. Was certainly grateful to them that night. While I admit I've never had a fight at a football match it was an exciting buzz you got from being around that scene. Maybe a psycologist would explain it as moths to flame syndrome?

Shame you get old really.

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Originally Posted by clerriehibs

because they were/are thugs looking for a scrap. Whatever Hibs might describe themselves as, they will never describe themselves as a focal point for thugs to do what thugs do. The thugs have f'all to do with Hibs.

By your reasoning; some guy goes to a Hibs game, gets bladdered, drives home, knocks over some kid, and has his Hibs season ticket in his back pocket. What's that got to do with Hibs? That's right, f'all.

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The ccs had f'all to do with football but a lot to do with hibs!

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Originally Posted by fat freddy

i'm thinking about writing a book about my experiences as a junior member of 'Eddie Turnbull's Soccer Hooligans'...we weren't as hard as the casuals and we got battered wherever we went...thats when anyone could catch us....i remember getting battered at tynie,partick,dundee,parkhead,ibrox and killie amongst others...our bus windows were frequently smashed while we cowered in fear(the 3 finals of 79 were particulary good days for autoglass repair companies)...i even remember the bus getting smashed in inverness after a pre season match in 78...we were rubbish at being hard so i welcomed the cashies and i could retire from being a hooligan...

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:greengrin

The "Eddie Turnbulls soccer hooligans" chant sung to the tune of your going to get your flaming heads kicked in is an absolute terrace classic.

Def time for a revival. 12th man , get it sorted.

As the OP on this, I probably got the views I thought. Lots of difference of opinion! I guess for me growing up a Hibby, as a youngster we regulalrly got into scraps with the away fans, but as I got older and wiser, you stayed clear of it. From the 2 books, I reckon you do get on the authors side and do romanticise the Casuals influence. But when you watch Goodfellas or the Godfather, for example, you probably do the same. Its all about opinions, but I'm glad they were on our side rather than against.

I was not around in the days when hooliganism was at large but after reading the books and seeing programmes on Hibs casuals, i also, without condoning violence, find it an interesting topic and also have a slight bit of admiration and pride in the fact ours were known to be one of the most feared.

My tin hat is also getting put on!

Football hooliganism has been around a lot longer than the beginning of the casuals.

The only difference I know of is that, prior to the CCS, Hibs fans just weren't very good at it :wink:

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Originally Posted by lucky

Are you for real ? come on, a training camp in Princess street gardens :faf:

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Hahaha :greengrin

The whole scene just passed me by, the casuals that is, crazy memories of the 1970s, don't mention Hampden, playing Motherwell at Ibrox in some 17th replay of a Scottish Cup tie, Firhill and getting chased by the Maryhill Fleet which made a change from the Lochee Fleet in Dundee or was that the Dens Derry.
St Johnstone, Ayr Utd, standing in the old Beach End at Aberdeen.

Casuals, bunch of posers.

:greengrin

The Casual Scene was an extension of the gang culture in the 70's and 80's in Edinburgh. Edinburgh was full of tough territorial gangs that regularly scrapped in town or trashed pubs or scattered shoppers. Pubs in town were owned by districts and many visits were made into dangerous territory to claim local boozers as well. The Doocot, Telford Arms etc were stronghold pubs that unless you came from those areas were not very welcoming hostelries. It was only a matter of time before the top boys from each gang who had an allegiance to Hibs or Hearts took their brand of violence national. I look back on those days with some fondness as the camraderie and sense of belonging was very strong but we were silly wee laddies really.

I find the whole Casual scene and Danny Dyer type stuff pretty embarrassing, I love the Hibees and I just think these guys brought shame to our great club. Can't understand trying to glorify casuals they were about as cool as Shell Suits and Burberry baseball caps, it's all just a bit Chav in my opinion.

There is nothing more sad and pathetic than a fat guy in his late 30's or early 40's who still thinks he is living the casual dream.

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Originally Posted by SaudiHibby

The Casual Scene was an extension of the gang culture in the 70's and 80's in Edinburgh. Edinburgh was full of tough territorial gangs that regularly scrapped in town or trashed pubs or scattered shoppers. Pubs in town were owned by districts and many visits were made into dangerous territory to claim local boozers as well. The Doocot, Telford Arms etc were stronghold pubs that unless you came from those areas were not very welcoming hostelries. It was only a matter of time before the top boys from each gang who had an allegiance to Hibs or Hearts took their brand of violence national. I look back on those days with some fondness as the camraderie and sense of belonging was very strong but we were silly wee laddies really.

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That's my read on it too. I grew up in the time of the YLT and Bar-Ox and as far as I could see the casual scene grew from there. Never had anything to do with casuals or footy violence but knew many who did. Recognise many of the matches in TCDR with mixed feelings. Some good times, some bad times and some mental times. Wish we still had the Enclosure at ER.... :flag:

I have to say I question the motivation of some of the shaven headed men I see hanging around with teenage boys at the games. I take these aren't the same blokes as the casuals?

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

I have to say I question the motivation of some of the shaven headed men I see hanging around with teenage boys at the games. I take these aren't the same blokes as the casuals?

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:dunno:


Why don't you ask them?

I was watching a re-run recently of a documentary from (I think) 1985 about football hooliganism and in particular, the West Ham ICF. When I was watching this, I got an amazing feeling of de-ja-vu, of browsing through the book 'Hibs Boy'.

I'm not sure if AB watched the documentary at the time but it was like someone who'd either based his life, or the book, around the TV program.

I'm not saying the book was entirely made up, as it obviously happened, but I just wonder if some of the stuff was added by someone who remembered the documentary. It seems a spooky co-incidence the things that the guys on the TV program were saying were so similar to what was in Hibs Boy.


...or have I just lined myself up for a Sopranos style punishment beating, like the recent one at Tynecastle? :greengrin






LINK for those who are curious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

I have to say I question the motivation of some of the shaven headed men I see hanging around with teenage boys at the games. I take these aren't the same blokes as the casuals?

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Begs the question - where do Brazilian football hooligans shave themselves?

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Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

Begs the question - where do Brazilian football hooligans shave themselves?

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In the bathroom maybe...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Filled Rolls

I have to say I question the motivation of some of the shaven headed men I see hanging around with teenage boys at the games. I take these aren't the same blokes as the casuals?

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That sort of thing was confined to tynecastle until Larry got his.

While the CCS may have organised their rumbles, it was the indiscrimante HBC which made life difficult for us as teenagers... i suppose every organised gang will have uncontrolable spin offs and im sure there are plenty of other non-hibees who will have a story to tell...

saying that it did make me more street wise, keeping your wits about you and identifying trouble before it happens... very important for a teenager!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CiscoKid

I find the whole Casual scene and Danny Dyer type stuff pretty embarrassing, I love the Hibees and I just think these guys brought shame to our great club. Can't understand trying to glorify casuals they were about as cool as Shell Suits and Burberry baseball caps, it's all just a bit Chav in my opinion.

There is nothing more sad and pathetic than a fat guy in his late 30's or early 40's who still thinks he is living the casual dream.

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:top marks couldn't agree more :agree:

ps some sad and pathetic skinny guys too :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

I was watching a re-run recently of a documentary from (I think) 1985 about football hooliganism and in particular, the West Ham ICF. When I was watching this, I got an amazing feeling of de-ja-vu, of browsing through the book 'Hibs Boy'.

I'm not sure if AB watched the documentary at the time but it was like someone who'd either based his life, or the book, around the TV program.

I'm not saying the book was entirely made up, as it obviously happened, but I just wonder if some of the stuff was added by someone who remembered the documentary. It seems a spooky co-incidence the things that the guys on the TV program were saying were so similar to what was in Hibs Boy.


...or have I just lined myself up for a Sopranos style punishment beating, like the recent one at Tynecastle? :greengrin






LINK for those who are curious.

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It was a similar scene all round the country well before that documentary was televised in 1985.

The film just showed one group in London, the same thing was already going on from Aberdeen to Portsmouth.

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Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

Freddie was a legend. Twas reputedly he who trained top boy Tommy Ten Pies, who splattered fifty Rangers fans at Ibrox to get to front of the queue at the pie stand. Also cleared a entire street of Dundee Utility who had blocked his way to the Chinky takeaway in Hilltown. Blanche and Dykes would sabotage the catering trolley on the Scotrail so that Tommy would be utterly demented, in a rather beastly rage, and therfeore ready to attack anything when the train pulled up.

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RACIST!:tsk tsk: