Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Not a single debt connected with the football club went unpaid in 1990. Tom Farmer bought the club.
Maybe if Dundee had been let go, others would be more careful. Maybe a new Dundee would have formed and be ground sharing tannadice and be doing better than they are now. The current attitude of dumping debt by going into admin is a poor way of running the sport.

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It's the way it is, like it or not. Dunfermline did similar to Dundee. I still wouldn't like to disenfranchise the fans of any club (except Hearts because I'm a bad b*****d that way).

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Rangers deliberately withheld PAYE and NI in order to sign better players. They are just as big cheats as the Yams.

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Not prior to Craig Whyte's tenure they didn't. Their non payment was from May 2011 - February 2012. I was referring to the board headed by Alistair Johnston, Paul Murray etc. who brought down the debt of the Murray years and were all cleared out by Whyte for their troubles.

Given their fan base size Rangers probably could have traded their way out of trouble. Hearts never could have and their financial idiocy spans 2 decades making them far worse IMHO. They were told time and time again to cut costs and didn't.

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Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

It's the way it is, like it or not. Dunfermline did similar to Dundee. I still wouldn't like to disenfranchise the fans of any club (except Hearts because I'm a bad b*****d that way).



Not prior to Craig Whyte's tenure they didn't. Their non payment was from May 2011 - February 2012. I was referring to the board headed by Alistair Johnston, Paul Murray etc. who brought down the debt of the Murray years and were all cleared out by Whyte for their troubles.

Given their fan base size Rangers probably could have traded their way out of trouble. Hearts never could have and their financial idiocy spans 2 decades making them far worse IMHO. They were told time and time again to cut costs and didn't.

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I get what you're saying but if you're going to run an aggressive tax avoidance scheme that's right on the edge of legality (and ultimately I think HMRC will win their appeal) then you have to be able to have contingency for the potential tax liability. The Huns were, at best, immoral and reckless (and given their constant playing of the armed forces card, hypocritical).

They lived by the sword and ultimately died by it. Shame. :wink:

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Originally Posted by AndyM_1875

It's the way it is, like it or not. Dunfermline did similar to Dundee. I still wouldn't like to disenfranchise the fans of any club (except Hearts because I'm a bad b*****d that way).



Not prior to Craig Whyte's tenure they didn't. Their non payment was from May 2011 - February 2012. I was referring to the board headed by Alistair Johnston, Paul Murray etc. who brought down the debt of the Murray years and were all cleared out by Whyte for their troubles.

Given their fan base size Rangers probably could have traded their way out of trouble. Hearts never could have and their financial idiocy spans 2 decades making them far worse IMHO. They were told time and time again to cut costs and didn't.

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So it's all big bad Craig Whyte's fault?
Craig Whyte was Rangers. He was the controlling mind of the company.
They deliberately withheld tax and NI to fund the team. They cheated.
And when HMRC win their appeal they will have been shown to have done it over many years.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

So it's all big bad Craig Whyte's fault?
Craig Whyte was Rangers. He was the controlling mind of the company.
They deliberately withheld tax and NI to fund the team. They cheated.
And when HMRC win their appeal they will have been shown to have done it over many years.

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That's not what I said.
The root of Rangers problems lie in the David Murray era. But the non payment of NI & PAYE happened under Craig Whyte (a shyster) and he mortgaged future Season Ticket sales to keep the club running under his disastrous stewardship. Not that I particularly give a toss.

But I wouldn't hold your breath for HMRC winning the appeal though. Tax Avoidance, however unpalatable(and quite frankly Rangers behavior here disgusts me) , is legal and during the period the EBT scheme ran it was a legal tax loophole and declared in the yearly accounts which were signed off by Grant Thornton accountants.

Is there a time limitation that a company can be left in administration or can they just go on forever in admin?

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Originally Posted by MB62

Is there a time limitation that a company can be left in administration or can they just go on forever in admin?

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It is only supposed to last for a period of 12 months after which the administration is meant to end and the administrator leaves office. There is however a process that can be undertaken to extend the period, with approval of the creditors and court. You would need a very good reason for it to go on indefinitely, i.e. sale of the business dragging on etc.

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Originally Posted by robinp

It is only supposed to last for a period of 12 months after which the administration is meant to end and the administrator leaves office. There is however a process that can be undertaken to extend the period, with approval of the creditors and court. You would need a very good reason for it to go on indefinitely, i.e. sale of the business dragging on etc.

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That being the case, this lot could be in admin indefinitely then.
However should that be the case, they would Shirley be hit with another penalty points deduction next season, whatever league they happen to be in?

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Originally Posted by MB62

That being the case, this lot could be in admin indefinitely then.
However should that be the case, they would Shirley be hit with another penalty points deduction next season, whatever league they happen to be in?

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They appear to be on a fixed price for the admin so it won't last long.

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Originally Posted by MB62

That being the case, this lot could be in admin indefinitely then.
However should that be the case, they would Shirley be hit with another penalty points deduction next season, whatever league they happen to be in?

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If I remember correctly that is what happens down south and has happened before. I don't think we have had that happen up here, Dunfermline were going to cease to exist if their administration CVA meeting failed prior to the new season so there wasn't anything written about a second points penalty if that was the rules up here.

In Hearts case I wouldn't have thought so, the Floating Charge holder wants their cash back. I don't think they will allow the process to drag on indefinitely, they are funding it after all and the longer this runs the more fees to BDO and less to Lithuanian Government bail out fund!

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

They appear to be on a fixed price for the admin so it won't last long.

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Has this been confirmed anywhere else except the Brokeback thread about that supporters paedo ring night at the Gorgie Suite last month?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

They appear to be on a fixed price for the admin so it won't last long.

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Don't think they are.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Don't think they are.

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Does this mean it possible that the Yams could still be in admin in June 2014?
If so, what are the possible consequences, given BDO's fees, for the Liths and the Yams?
All a bit hypothetical I admit but as nothing seems to be happening recently, they appear to be quite happy to stumble along in admin and forget about everything else that previously happened.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Don't think they are.

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If they are not then I'm happy for them to run them as it's an expensive way to manage a club.

If Hearts are still in Administration at the start of the 14/15 season then the same punishments would likely be applied again, that is a points deduction (1/3rd of previous seasons total or 15, whichever is highest) and the transfer embargo would still be in place anyway, it would likely be extended to the day after the next transfer window closes again.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

They appear to be on a fixed price for the admin so it won't last long.

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Don't think they are, but pretty sure BDO are only taking their expenses for now. Which must be adding up.

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Originally Posted by MB62

Does this mean it possible that the Yams could still be in admin in June 2014?
If so, what are the possible consequences, given BDO's fees, for the Liths and the Yams?
All a bit hypothetical I admit but as nothing seems to be happening recently, they appear to be quite happy to stumble along in admin and forget about everything else that previously happened.

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It's possible, although very unlikely.

Cash, and patience, will probably run out well before then.

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Originally Posted by Max

Don't think they are, but pretty sure BDO are only taking their expenses for now. Which must be adding up.

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:agree:

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Originally Posted by Max

Don't think they are, but pretty sure BDO are only taking their expenses for now. Which must be adding up.

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Expenses will include the mega wages these guys earn. It won't be cheap.

How will they get their money then?

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Expenses will include the mega wages these guys earn. It won't be cheap.

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No it doesn't. It includes outlays they have to pay, such as legal costs.

Their wages are included in their fees.

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

How will they get there money then?

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:na na:

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

How will they get their money then?

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I understand it's from the sale of the 3,000 additional Season Tickets and the Direct Debits organised by FoH.


CWG told me.

So let me get this right.
They are taking their fees from the sale of the business or assets at the end. The fees are accumulating as the weeks go by.
They are charging current expenses against the clubs current income.
It's good of the Lithuanians to let BDO run the club out of their money?

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

I understand it's from the sale of the 3,000 additional Season Tickets and the Direct Debits organised by FoH.


CWG told me.

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He can be a bugger, that boy. I wouldn't believe a word he tells you.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

So let me get this right.
They are taking their fees from the sale of the business or assets at the end. The fees are accumulating as the weeks go by.
They are charging current expenses against the clubs current income.
It's good of the Lithuanians to let BDO run the club out of their money?

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It's common practice when an insolvency is being run for the benefit of a secured creditor. After all, BDO are working (partly) on UKIO's behalf.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

He can be a bugger, that boy. I wouldn't believe a word he tells you.

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That is a bit harsh ! I think by and large his/her comments are spot on. In fact if he/she replaced the other beancounter I would be quite pleased.

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

I understand it's from the sale of the 3,000 additional Season Tickets and the Direct Debits organised by FoH.


CWG told me.

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I was being a tad facetious.

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Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

That is a bit harsh ! I think by and large his/her comments are spot on. In fact if he/she replaced the other beancounter I would be quite pleased.

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Here comes another one of those whoosh moments!

JKBers wish that BDO could be their permanent board of directors such is the way they have been managed this season. I thought admin was meant to hurt companies?

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Originally Posted by Pedantic_Hibee

JKBers wish that BDO could be their permanent board of directors such is the way they have been managed this season. I thought admin was meant to hurt companies?

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I'm sure they do. BDO are like Petrie on steroids. And more expensive to boot.

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Originally Posted by Weststandwanab

That is a bit harsh ! I think by and large his/her comments are spot on. In fact if he/she replaced the other beancounter I would be quite pleased.

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Nah, he's a Yam WUM, IMO..... and any other appropriate abbreviations.

Who's the "other beancounter"?

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

I understand it's from the sale of the 3,000 additional Season Tickets and the Direct Debits organised by FoH.


CWG told me.

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

I was being a tad facetious.

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

Here comes another one of those whoosh moments!

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And apparently you had one of your own right just before :wink:

Did they ever get a punishment for missing the last wages payment before they went into admin or have the SPFL swept that under the carpet?

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Originally Posted by keekaboo

And apparently you had one of your own right just before :wink:

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That was directed at weststandwanab

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Originally Posted by Fat Penlon

Did they ever get a punishment for missing the last wages payment before they went into admin or have the SPFL swept that under the carpet?

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Funny. That was never followed up by the SPL.