Managerial Sack Race

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

What would David Gray do differently when changes are needed and he looks to the same benches that Monty has had over his time with us? The bench in our last game was:

Johnson
Stevenson
Harbottle
Jeggo
Rudi
Mcallister
Clelland
Landers
Mckirdy

So 5 youngsters, McKirdy coming back from health issues and Montgomery saying he probably shouldn’t have even played the ten minutes he did. What would Gray do differently with the realistic options he had in Stevenson, Harbottle & Jeggo.

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Best league performance of the season by miles was under Gray up at Aberdeen. Not saying for one second he should be the manager but the players are capable of far better than they're showing.

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Originally Posted by .Sean.

I am honestly struggling to comprehend chat about emptying Montgomery already. Jeez. But when you look at our upcoming run

This place is going to be even more nuts than normal when we take about 5 points in our next 6 league games

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If you take out peoples opinions on the matter and focus solely on how we as a club deal with poor performance, which at the end of the day is all that matters, surely you can see why it’s being discussed?

If we take 5 points from our next 6 league games then we’ll likely be bottom 6. I don’t think it’s that hard to picture a situation where that gets a Hibs manager the sack given our boards recent history.

I don’t think I’ve seen anybody say he should be sacked. I think history tells us though that we’re rapidly approaching ‘has to improve’ territory under this board.

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Originally Posted by Wilson

You aren't really though are you? It's not like the mind blowing football and relentless positive results have convinced you so entirely that we have the right man?

For my money, you could stick Monty on gardening leave and put Gray in control. You'd be done with this one system only pish, get better performances out of Boyle and Vente, and the results would likely improve too.

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I think the majority of fans are prepared to wait things out and see what Monty's made of after the break. However, in a worst case scenario where we find ourselves fighting relegation and he gets the boot then Gray should be offered the job full time IMO. He's held the fort effectively on numerous occasions and even had us ahead in a cup final against Celtic. He's worked under numerous managers now and given the experience he's gained it's hard to see him being any less effective than Maloney, Johnson or Montgomery (the latter on current evidence).

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Small sample size but we looked much tighter defensively during Gray's games earlier this season (much better away than at home against Villa and then a good defensive performance in Aberdeen).

So I'd expect to see consistency at CB, slightly better defensive cover for the defence, probably by playing Jeggo every week in front of them.

I don't think Gray would have Levitt making the sort of passes in the sort of position that he was caught out in against St Johnstone.

And I think we'd see more of the front 3 that most folk crave - Youan, Vente (right up front) and Boyle. Worth remembering that they had some bad games under Johnson together at the start of the season though.

With the same personnel he's still be up a gum tree when it came to making subs late in games but Johnson sort of got round that last season by making fewer subs and sticking with his favoured starting line up through good and bad. It only really ended up backfiring against Hearts in the last game.


I'm not for a second saying we should be sacking Monty, but I think his philosophy and our current group of players without reinforcements will get us nowhere fast (albeit it might work out longer term, with the right backing.)

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Will start this by saying I wouldn’t be playing the current system every week, although I think the most ridiculous aspect is the refusal to change it even during a game rather than the system itself.

In some corners the system is to blame for everything though and I just don’t think there is any balance to some of the conversation (no aiming that at you or this post really). But if you look at the last two games as an example, system didn’t cause us to drop as many points. Losing a goal from a free kick where the opposition win three headers in a row in our box, one from a throw in where our 16 year old full back switched off and one from a punt up the park from the goalie that our hopeless centre half doesn’t just header away like any average centre half would.

I honestly don’t think it’s just a straight case of a shape change sorting loads of our problems. It’s not as if the different shape was working well at the start of the season.

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Originally Posted by He's here!

I think the majority of fans are prepared to wait things out and see what Monty's made of after the break. However, in a worst case scenario where we find ourselves fighting relegation and he gets the boot then Gray should be offered the job full time IMO. He's held the fort effectively on numerous occasions and even had us ahead in a cup final against Celtic. He's worked under numerous managers now and given the experience he's gained it's hard to see him being any less effective than Maloney, Johnson or Montgomery (the latter on current evidence).

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If (and I’d stress I’m not saying he should be) NM is sacked, I wonder if we’ll be in a different market for managers with the arrival of Foley?

In theory we may have a big chunk more money floating around. I wonder if guys like an out of work Tony Mowbray for example would suddenly become a bit more attainable?

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Originally Posted by Smartie

Small sample size but we looked much tighter defensively during Gray's games earlier this season (much better away than at home against Villa and then a good defensive performance in Aberdeen).

So I'd expect to see consistency at CB, slightly better defensive cover for the defence, probably by playing Jeggo every week in front of them.

I don't think Gray would have Levitt making the sort of passes in the sort of position that he was caught out in against St Johnstone.

And I think we'd see more of the front 3 that most folk crave - Youan, Vente (right up front) and Boyle. Worth remembering that they had some bad games together under Johnson at the start of the season though.

With the same personnel he's still be up a gum tree when it came to making subs late in games but Johnson sort of got round that last season by making fewer subs and sticking with his favoured starting line up through good and bad. It only really ended up backfiring against Hearts in the last game.


I'm not for a second saying we should be sacking Monty, but I think his philosophy and our current group of players without reinforcements will get us nowhere fast (albeit it might work out longer term, with the right backing.)

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A fair post. It’s definitely fair to challenge Montgomery on his stubbornness/naivety/lack of experience in never deviating too much from 442 with what we have.

As a crude summation of your post the alternative is, potentially, play Jeggo and don’t make subs 😀

Montgomery isn’t buying himself much leeway in the short term, which is naive as he needs to survive long enough to actually make his changes, but on the flip side we’ve got a mid table squad, top 6 on a good day, bottom 6 on a bad day. Talk of 433, Boyle & Youan etc etc is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic at the end of the day IMO.

NM was taken on with a clear agreement on how he would play and how things would develop. If we sack another one we need to just stop asking managers for plans!

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Originally Posted by Since452

Best league performance of the season by miles was under Gray up at Aberdeen. Not saying for one second he should be the manager but the players are capable of far better than they're showing.

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They are capable of that performance, but not on a regular or even semi consistent basis. For every Aberdeen away there’s a St Mirren at home, Motherwell away, St Johnstone away etc.

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Originally Posted by The Modfather

A fair post. It’s definitely fair to challenge Montgomery on his stubbornness/naivety/lack of experience in never deviating too much from 442 with what we have.

As a crude summation of your post the alternative is, potentially, play Jeggo and don’t make subs ��

Montgomery isn’t buying himself much leeway in the short term, which is naive as he needs to survive long enough to actually make his changes, but on the flip side we’ve got a mid table squad, top 6 on a good day, bottom 6 on a bad day. Talk of 433, Boyle & Youan etc etc is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic at the end of the day IMO.

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The crude summation isn't far off the mark.

I actually think a couple of tweaks could make Monty's team better - I prefer Jeggo to Levitt deep in midfield. I'd actually prefer Levitt doing what Vente is doing - the dropping deep from an advanced position and playing in the wide players and an advanced Vente himself. I also don't like the constant shuffling at CH - pick 2, stick with them, give them a bit of protection and I think we look stronger (although we will still, inevitably, lose the odd bad goal as all teams do).

That's without changing the system, although you are playing a midfielder up front.

A quick skim through last few pages would have you thinking we must be in full blown crisis mode.

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Originally Posted by Carheenlea

A quick skim through last few pages would have you thinking we must be in full blown crisis mode.

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you think we're not? Only cause it's the winter break everything is calm, plus we are expecting to win v Forfar. People were fuming after the derby and wanted sackings.

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Originally Posted by Stubbsy90+2

If (and I’d stress I’m not saying he should be) NM is sacked, I wonder if we’ll be in a different market for managers with the arrival of Foley?

In theory we may have a big chunk more money floating around. I wonder if guys like an out of work Tony Mowbray for example would suddenly become a bit more attainable?

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More likely they’ll want to develop coaches as well as players in their network, as the City Group do.

Not much incentive for Foley to fork out for an expensive coach who isn’t going to be of interest to Bournemouth, Lorient etc ahead of us.

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Originally Posted by xbar81

you think we're not? Only cause it's the winter break everything is calm, plus we are expecting to win v Forfar. People were fuming after the derby and wanted sackings.

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No, I don’t think we are in crisis.

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Originally Posted by xbar81

you think we're not? Only cause it's the winter break everything is calm, plus we are expecting to win v Forfar. People were fuming after the derby and wanted sackings.

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If you describe this as a crisis, what words do you use to describe an actual crisis?

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Originally Posted by jacomo

If you describe this as a crisis, what words do you use to describe an actual crisis?

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just have to turn it up to 11 :agree:


TBH I don't think we are in a crisis but some people on here do. There were threads like "i hate hibs" and "get monty out" etc.

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Originally Posted by xbar81

just have to turn it up to 11 :agree:


TBH I don't think we are in a crisis but some people on here do. There were threads like "i hate hibs" and "get monty out" etc.

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Never pay too much attention to the match day threads! :wink:

You’ll hear similar nonsense at ER whenever we concede a goal…

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Originally Posted by Brightside

NM was taken on with a clear agreement on how he would play and how things would develop. If we sack another one we need to just stop asking managers for plans!

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Makes you question just who thought we had the squad to play his system or what questions were asked during the interview process. In a season where 3rd is massive we're religiously playing the formation the manager wants to play without having the players to do so rather than playing a hugely expensively assembled squad of players by Hibs standards in their strongest positions.

Knowing our luck we'll get five or six new signings in the summer. Stroll to 3rd playing 442 with brilliant football and then have to play qualifiers to get in to the group stages. Losing to a team from Kazakhstan in the playoffs.

Any chance of ditching the Monty chat on this thread? Really annoying.

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Originally Posted by Carheenlea

A quick skim through last few pages would have you thinking we must be in full blown crisis mode.

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Nowhere near being a crisis but there’s clearly a lot to be concerned about.

NM has got his work cut out and needs to start delivering results. There’s hardly been any improvement since he came in and I reckon the board would have expected better.

However, I don’t think he’s anywhere near close to being sacked but if he left for another club tomorrow would anyone really care?

I’ve not seen anything from him that makes me think we’ve got a star manager on our hands.

Whilst I don’t think we’re anywhere near a crisis, if you told me that for the Forfar game we’re going into it with no new additions I just wouldn’t have believed you - especially with Rocky, Miller, Boyle and Wollacott all being away on international duty.

Harbottle, Delf and Boruc have also not been training with the team so you can’t imagine they’d be in the squad.

Forfar or not, that’s poor. Especially with having rangers not long after.

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Originally Posted by Unseen work

Whilst I don’t think we’re anywhere near a crisis, if you told me that for the Forfar game we’re going into it with no new additions I just wouldn’t have believed you - especially with Rocky, Miller, Boyle and Wollacott all being away on international duty.

Harbottle, Delf and Boruc have also not been training with the team so you can’t imagine they’d be in the squad.

Forfar or not, that’s poor. Especially with having rangers not long after.

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Poor is a bit generous. Forfar shouldn’t be an issue but if we go in to the Rangers game with what we had available v Motherwell, we’ll get murdered.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Poor is a bit generous. Forfar shouldn’t be an issue but if we go in to the Rangers game with what we had available v Motherwell, we’ll get murdered.

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Yeah I agree, and it’s reasons like the current squad being the way it is that I just can’t criticise Montgomery properly.

Even the guys were getting linked with, 18/19 year old wingers that have played a handful of games - it’s just not what we need.

Obviously there will be other targets we’re not aware of, but the whole window has been depressing until now.

I think most Hibs fans if you asked them what they need would all say similar, but it’s not what we’re seeing/hearing so far.

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Originally Posted by Hiber-nation

Any chance of ditching the Monty chat on this thread? Really annoying.

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Won't happen until a few certain posters get their wish and he's sacked, negativity across nearly all threads is depressing, I could put most on ignore but it'd be multiple pages of nothing.

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Originally Posted by J-C

Won't happen until a few certain posters get their wish and he's sacked, negativity across nearly all threads is depressing, I could put most on ignore but it'd be multiple pages of nothing.

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As opposed to you relentlessly having a go at LJ when he was here and after he left? What's the difference?

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Originally Posted by Since452

As opposed to you relentlessly having a go at LJ when he was here and after he left? What's the difference?

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:greengrin

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Originally Posted by Since452

As opposed to you relentlessly having a go at LJ when he was here and after he left? What's the difference?

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LJ it was understandable why he was disliked. Monty is not a dislikeable chap and doesn't talk absolute David Brent type bollocks while the team are underperforming.

Ok the team maybe underperforming but we don't have the cringe of LJ on top of it too if you get my meaning.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Will start this by saying I wouldn’t be playing the current system every week, although I think the most ridiculous aspect is the refusal to change it even during a game rather than the system itself.

In some corners the system is to blame for everything though and I just don’t think there is any balance to some of the conversation (no aiming that at you or this post really). But if you look at the last two games as an example, system didn’t cause us to drop as many points. Losing a goal from a free kick where the opposition win three headers in a row in our box, one from a throw in where our 16 year old full back switched off and one from a punt up the park from the goalie that our hopeless centre half doesn’t just header away like any average centre half would.

I honestly don’t think it’s just a straight case of a shape change sorting loads of our problems. It’s not as if the different shape was working well at the start of the season.

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Lee Johnson was the issue at the start of the season. Not the players or the shape. Lee Johnson was throwing players under the bus. That was the story.

Now the players are the issue. They don't fit the shape. Monty's shape or insistence on playing it is not the issue. Apparently. Although, while we fail to get a tune from our top player, Boyle, or a tune from our big investment, Vente, then perhaps Monty and his shape will be a bigger issue than folk care to admit.

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Originally Posted by Hiber-nation

Any chance of ditching the Monty chat on this thread? Really annoying.

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Not a chance. Not even sure why the thread is still going? No doubt be numerous Monty out threads after a few losses anyway.

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Originally Posted by Wilson

Lee Johnson was the issue at the start of the season. Not the players or the shape. Lee Johnson was throwing players under the bus. That was the story.

Now the players are the issue. They don't fit the shape. Monty's shape or insistence on playing it is not the issue. Apparently. Although, while we fail to get a tune from our top player, Boyle, or a tune from our big investment, Vente, then perhaps Monty and his shape will be a bigger issue than folk care to admit.

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Do you not think the players are a fairly major part of the issue?

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Do you not think the players are a fairly major part of the issue?

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"In terms of the identity of the team and the way that we play, that’s not going to change”, Monty confirmed. In terms of the players that we have, ultimately if we don’t have a big squad and you don't have impact off the bench, then it is very hard to play at high intensity for 90 minutes. That is where we were short in the first part of the season"

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...N7cYIaHx2oIXFs