Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

Correct. The assets are still frozen and until that changes, Hearts are heading for the liquidiser

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These shares won't be frozen forever though will they.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

These shares won't be frozen forever though will they.

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They were frozen for a reason and they will stay frozen for as long as that reason exists.

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

They were frozen for a reason and they will stay frozen for as long as that reason exists.

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Yes but that could be years or it could be days for all we know.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Yes but that could be years or it could be days for all we know.

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It's unlikely to be days. They were frozen because the authorities believe Vlad has been up to something with the finances of his many businesses and this was put in place to stop them from being sold off promptly in a bid to cover it up. It's the financial equivalent of declaring a crime scene.

The lith's won't be swayed by the sentimental value of one of those companies because, for all they know, Hearts are the key to the whole saga.

Given that Vlad hasn't handed himself in yet it would appear they are on to something. Innocent people don't tend to go on the run.

To clear up a bit of a misconception which I've been guilty of expressing myself, the administrators are not really acting in the interests of the creditors, that was what receivers did in the past. Their primary aim is to rescue the company (club) as a going concern - that means finding a way of allowing the company to continue in business that the creditors are prepared to accept. In other words they are looking for a compromise. Only if they can't reach that compromise do they start acting in the direct interests of the creditors. They must not do anything that jeopardises the interests of the creditors, but that's slightly different from acting in their interests.

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

To clear up a bit of a misconception which I've been guilty of expressing myself, the administrators are not really acting in the interests of the creditors, that was what receivers did in the past. Their primary aim is to rescue the company (club) as a going concern - that means finding a way of allowing the company to continue in business that the creditors are prepared to accept. In other words they are looking for a compromise. Only if they can't reach that compromise do they start acting in the direct interests of the creditors. They must not do anything that jeopardises the interests of the creditors, but that's slightly different from acting in their interests.

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So really BDO see FoH with the best plan regarding running costs for Hearts hence preferrred bidder status and can now turn their full attention to diddling (sorry I mean compromising:greengrin) the creditors out of millions on behalf of FoH.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

So really BDO see FoH with the best plan regarding running costs for Hearts hence preferrred bidder status and can now turn their full attention to diddling (sorry I mean compromising:greengrin) the creditors out of millions on behalf of FoH.

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That's about it, but the creditors have to agree to be diddled, so it's a compromise. Where the real diddling took place was when Duff & Phelps tied themselves in to a ridiculously low but 'legally binding' liquidation settlement as the only alternative to a CVA. Hopefully that can't happen here because of the security over Tynie.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

So really BDO see FoH with the best plan regarding running costs for Hearts hence preferrred bidder status and can now turn their full attention to diddling (sorry I mean compromising:greengrin) the creditors out of millions on behalf of FoH.

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The creditors were always likely to get diddled. The security on Hearts assets made sure that happened because it's higher than the club is worth.

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

The creditors were always likely to get diddled. The security on Hearts assets made sure that happened because it's higher than the club is worth.

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But not higher than the money owed to them.:rolleyes:

And meanwhile the gravy train for BDO rumbles on, must be up to about £400,000 by now!

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

But not higher than the money owed to them.:rolleyes:

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In theory the creditors only have themselves to blame for that. In this case it seems likely that there was criminal activity involved, hence the freezing of the shares.

As a side issue, I'm wondering if Ukio's apparent 29.9% shareholding will be as easy to hand over as the yams seem to think. They were originally UBIG's and were put up as security for UBIG's debt. Ukio reportedly took possession of them prior to the freezing of assets, but at what value? The shares are worthless (like the club), and if they were used to reduce UBIG's debt then that would appear to be fraudulent and the transaction should be reversed. If they weren't used to reduce the debt then there was no reason to take possession. In either case, the transfer doesn't appear to have been registered at Companies House, so to some extent, in legal terms it hasn't happened.

Just been reading allisbarry's official statement on this in the hootsmon. Seems it's just a formality now.

Confident enough to say that Valnetas have privately indicated £5m will be enough then they will get the balance of the shares from UBIG for a "token figure" where does this confidence / evidence come from I wonder? The yam posting underneath clearly see salvation arriving.

Nae shame, remorse nor recognition of the aftermath just glorification at their perceived survival and the success that is seemingly round the corner. There's even a hun posting on there with a bit of humility!

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

Is it only me who can see this, but BDO have made FOH the prefered bidders as they are the only one bidding?

And it matters not a jot if the Liths dont think its enough, and it was nowhere near enough last week?

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I was about to post the same.

Only bidder has to equal preferred bidder unless unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

Just been reading allisbarry's official statement on this in the hootsmon. Seems it's just a formality now.

Confident enough to say that Valnetas have privately indicated £5m will be enough then they will get the balance of the shares from UBIG for a "token figure" where does this confidence / evidence come from I wonder? The yam posting underneath clearly see salvation arriving.

Nae shame, remorse nor recognition of the aftermath just glorification at their perceived survival and the success that is seemingly round the corner. There's even a hun posting on there with a bit of humility!

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If Barry Anderson has quoted £5m then we can be assured it's some way off that.

In all seriousness FOH were still a long way off I was told. It all boils down to how UKIO deals with them being the only bidder left standing. What Barry doesn't seem to grasp is they are under no obligation to sell.

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

If Barry Anderson has quoted £5m then we can be assured it's some way off that.

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Not so sure about that now Bajillions. EENs gift of a full page advert to FoH definitely reeks of a bit of 'I'll scratch your back...'

I'm expecting a bit more accuracy from Banderson. I now feel dirty.

How much does it actually mean that FOH is the preferred bidder?

If I turned up with £20 million tomorrow would I be sent packing because there is a preferred bidder?

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Originally Posted by greenginger

FoH will now get access to detailed running costs of Club and commercial contracts etc. ( although they have probs had all that from Southern if not BDO )

They can now fine tune their final bid and see if its enough for the Lith. admin to get them to first base.

If they still fall short I would think it will be the Mincer for them.

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You need to brush up on your knowledge of kitchen appliances. It will be the Liquidiser for them.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Not so sure about that now Bajillions. EENs gift of a full page advert to FoH definitely reeks of a bit of 'I'll scratch your back...'

I'm expecting a bit more accuracy from Banderson. I now feel dirty.

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In fairness, the advert was run in exchange for a donation being made to the sick kids so I can't fault the EEN there. However, given that at this stage the FOH do not know how far off their bid is, I find it very difficult to comprehend how Barry would know. UKIO's admin are playing the cards close to the chest I'm told.

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Originally Posted by scoopyboy

How much does it actually mean that FOH is the preferred bidder?

If I turned up with £20 million tomorrow would I be sent packing because there is a preferred bidder?

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You'd more likely be sent packing because you're clearly not the full shilling offering £20m but kidding aside no, BDO aren't under any obligation to turn you away and just go with the FOH. They can still entertain other offers, preferred bidder just means who they currently intend to sell the business to if all goes well. Either party can tell the other one to bolt.

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

You don't have the full information to make a comment like that. We don't know exactly how much Ukio want, how much FOH are offering or what the break up value is. It gives BDO a better chance of being appointed administrator of football clubs that go bust in future if they can make arrangements that allow the club to continue with as little disruption as possible. I don't see a queue of clubs lining up to appoint Duff & Phelps.

:wink:

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BTW, I think this will lead to a CVA being agreed. It's not straightforward and will probably take some months to agree, but I think it will happen eventually. If say Ukio threatened FOH with pushing Hearts into liquidation for the sake of say £1M, I would imagine that FOH would be able to raise that from the fans and/or their backers. What we really need to be focusing on is the complete and utter failure of Hibs to take advantage of the situations affecting other clubs.



There was no reason in the rules to do that. "I don't like Hearts" isn't a rule.



Which would have put more people out of work.



Because it's nobody's interests to do so.



Normal businesses of that size aren't able to raise £1M from their customer base in the space of a month.

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That is a huge if surely?

Security over the stadium is 6.8m, correct?

I would have imagine given a report that the land at Tynecastle was worth 12m then the secured price of 6.8m would be the least they would accept for the club and ground?

The bid from FOH was miles from this figure, millions of pounds? I don't really see how they can raise say another 3m capital which is probably the amount they need to even have their bid considered?

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Originally Posted by Bajillions

What Barry doesn't seem to grasp is they are under no obligation to sell.

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I read the first half of that sentence and paused to think to myself "absolutely anything under the sun could follow now and it would be true - I wonder what will".

Poor Allis.

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Originally Posted by KeithTheHibby

That is a huge if surely?

Security over the stadium is 6.8m, correct?

I would have imagine given a report that the land at Tynecastle was worth 12m then the secured price of 6.8m would be the least they would accept for the club and ground?

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You've just plucked that value out of thin air.

If the real valuation was anything like that, Hearts would have been liquidated already.

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The bid from FOH was miles from this figure, millions of pounds? I don't really see how they can raise say another 3m capital which is probably the amount they need to even have their bid considered?

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If the FOH bid was that far short, it would have been rejected out of hand and they would have been told to go away (like Bob Jamieson was). What Ukio said instead was effectively "that offer is not good enough, but we are willing to talk more".

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

You've just plucked that value out of thin air.

If the real valuation was anything like that, Hearts would have been liquidated already.



If the FOH bid was that far short, it would have been rejected out of hand and they would have been told to go away (like Bob Jamieson was). What Ukio said instead was effectively "that offer is not good enough, but we are willing to talk more".

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I don't like the noises you're making, can you tell me the same again please but this time tell me they're ****ed please?

Part Time Supporter seems pretty confident that #allisbarry

So, someone is wrong

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

You've just plucked that value out of thin air.

If the real valuation was anything like that, Hearts would have been liquidated already.



If the FOH bid was that far short, it would have been rejected out of hand and they would have been told to go away (like Bob Jamieson was). What Ukio said instead was effectively "that offer is not good enough, but we are willing to talk more".

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If the shares are frozen, can they even be liquidated? If not, might as well keep the pot simmering and some revenue coming in by letting the fans think that FoH might be in with a chance.

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Originally Posted by Caversham Green

To clear up a bit of a misconception which I've been guilty of expressing myself, the administrators are not really acting in the interests of the creditors, that was what receivers did in the past. Their primary aim is to rescue the company (club) as a going concern - that means finding a way of allowing the company to continue in business that the creditors are prepared to accept. In other words they are looking for a compromise. Only if they can't reach that compromise do they start acting in the direct interests of the creditors. They must not do anything that jeopardises the interests of the creditors, but that's slightly different from acting in their interests.

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You're correct of course Cav but IIRC there's still an overriding caveat that says the Administrator must act at all times in the best interests of the creditors. In that case, if liquidation is likely to realise more through sale of assets than FOH bid then IMO BDO must go that route, particularly as they were appointed by the Liths. I have however thought for some time that BDO have been too close to Yams & less than impartial in this process, particularly when they parroted Foulkes' guff re no one wanting PBS for development. They're a long way from the Duff &'Phelps behaviour but I do think they want to be seen as heroes.

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Originally Posted by joe breezy

Part Time Supporter seems pretty confident that #allisbarry

So, someone is wrong

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Thanks for puting words in my mouth. I dislike this tendency to remove any nuance in an argument...

I believe Ukio will eventually come to an agreement with FOH, because the difference between the valuation as suggested by FOH and their offer is not so great as to be insurmountable. That does not mean that an agreement is close, both in terms of time and money. This assumes that both parties negotiate constructively and that the Lithuanian legal situation is not a significant impediment, which I do not claim to have any expert knowledge of.

It does mean Hearts carrying on in administration for a significant period, preventing any new signings for that duration, with the SFA restriction until 31 January if they exit administration before then. As I said before, if Hibs are unable to take advantage of this situation, whether FOH succeed or not, says more about Hibs than it does about Hearts.

BDO see themselves as celebrity administrators. They will get acclaimed for saving the Yams but get nothing for getting an extra couple of million for the creditors.

Fortunately they are having to deal with another bunch of administrators.

IIRC there was a new valuation for Tynecastle instructed a couple of weeks ago. Has there been any leaks on that front ?

I still don't see how they can treat FOH as a viable bid given that a lot of funding comes from direct debits from a bunch of deluded half wits which can be cancelled at any time

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

Thanks for puting words in my mouth. I dislike this tendency to remove any nuance in an argument...

I believe Ukio will eventually come to an agreement with FOH, because the difference between the valuation as suggested by FOH and their offer is not so great as to be insurmountable. That does not mean that an agreement is close, both in terms of time and money. This assumes that both parties negotiate constructively and that the Lithuanian legal situation is not a significant impediment, which I do not claim to have any expert knowledge of.

It does mean Hearts carrying on in administration for a significant period, preventing any new signings for that duration, with the SFA restriction until 31 January if they exit administration before then. As I said before, if Hibs are unable to take advantage of this situation, whether FOH succeed or not, says more about Hibs than it does about Hearts.

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Hibs are absolute pish. I want Hearts to die as I hate them, it has nothing to do with Hibs with me.

Do I hate Hearts more than I love Hibs - yes, they're ****.

I hated them when I supported Partick Thistle and I hate them now.

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Originally Posted by poolman

I still don't see how they can treat FOH as a viable bid given that a lot of funding comes from direct debits from a bunch of deluded half wits which can be cancelled at any time

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To me, therein lies the problem of the whole 'movements' longevity.

It would be rather amusing to see them exit administration, only to plunge almost immediately back into administration once pledges dip.

In saying that, I'd still split my sides if they get liquidated.