Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

I'm all for having more faith in Sturgeon/SG than Boris/WM but it seems a bit far to just decide that something the SG does that isn't agreeable must have been WM coercing them to do so.

Sturgeon was on TV yesterday talking about seeing her parents at Christmas. She said they were staying outside and I don't know if they are in the same council area but she'll know that not everyone will be in the position to have an outside area or be in the same council area. I think she wouldn't have mentioned it if it wasn't something she generally agreed with/accepted as a trade off for Christmas.

Maybe a part of what makes it seem so at odds with previous decisions is the exaggerated language used by its detractors? "Christmas free for all" "no restrictions" "do as you please" etc. The rules as they are still require social distancing, they still limit how many households/people you can meet, they still have strong restrictions on hospitality - 2020 Christmas won't look anything remotely like what it usually would and there are still many ways in which we, and the virus, are being restricted throughout the period.

There's no chance of WM or SG u-turning on this one.

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She lives in Glasgow and her parents are in Dreghorn Ayrshire.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I'm just wary that it's potentially taking a test away from someone who really needs it.

The availability for Edinburgh looks good for the next few days and it seems a similar situation where they are but all the same....

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Just do it mate, you’re not breaking rules and being extra careful by booking tests. People who really need it will get tests.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Is it just me that finds the timing of this new strain of the virus and the likelihood of the change to Xmas rules convenient to Government?

I don't doubt that there is a new strain but my understanding is that there have been 25 new strains identified since February. I've never seen such publicity about a new strain previously.

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I remember reading that 33 strains had been id'd in June and heard Pennington this morning say they've found over 100 variants so far.

Just got a ping on the app saying I've been in close contact with someone positive on Monday. I didn't leave my flat on Monday and seen nobody. Haven't actually been out anywhere other than the bins since last Thursday. Very odd.

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Originally Posted by The_Exile

Just got a ping on the app saying I've been in close contact with someone positive on Monday. I didn't leave my flat on Monday and seen nobody. Haven't actually been out anywhere other than the bins since last Thursday. Very odd.

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You could phone the Contact Tracing Centre if you want to query it.

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

You could phone the Contact Tracing Centre if you want to query it.

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Yeah I'll give them a ring tomorrow, thinking it must be a neighbours phone or something I've picked up through the wall.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Unfortunately with the jobs we do isolating isn't an option.

That was why my argument was that getting tests seems immoral. They are for people who have symptoms but it's a tick box exercise and easily circumvented.

I wish there was just a ban on visits and it would be problem solved tbh.

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I understand your dilemma but think it is wrong to pretend you have symptoms to get a test.

Remember too that a -ve test in an asymptomatic person can give false reassurance. Tests are less reliable than in a symptomatic person.If you are exposed to the virus testing is not normally advised for 5 days. In these circumstances a PCR test is more accurate than a rapid antigen test.

As an aside in the US a home test had been approved made by an Australian company that has very good sensitivity and specificity and that will cost around 30 dollars.

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Originally Posted by stu in nottingham

Some are and many aren't and that's a fact. However, there aren't any figures to evidence anything in that regard. What cities like the one I live in will point to is the amount of students who haven't played by the rules. One party of 100-200 people after another being broken up almost nightly and it's invariably students (not always) - certainly in this city,

University of Nottingham declared over 1,500 students with infections almost immediately after their return. Nottingham Trent University (similar size) refused to publish any figures so we can easily assume similar.

People in Nottingham would certainly agree that it's not 'all' students who are partying, however significant amounts of them are and the right to be able to state that which we see with our own eyes is reserved. Just to say I am not anti-student, quite the opposite, having worked in two universities for a number of year, one of them in a role directly supporting students.

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I’m sure the situation will vary greatly from city to city. The highly publicised cases of bad behaviour in Aberdeen certainly weren’t down to students who are all but invisible here just now. My sons experience in Dundee hasn’t been one of party central this past semester either ....he’s come home domesticated. :greengrin
I was replying to a poster who seemed to be implying that students shouldn’t be getting the rapid tests required to let them travel home safely. Given the mess the respective Governments made of their return to Uni I’d argue that’s the least we can do for them.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Unfortunately with the jobs we do isolating isn't an option.

That was why my argument was that getting tests seems immoral. They are for people who have symptoms but it's a tick box exercise and easily circumvented.

I wish there was just a ban on visits and it would be problem solved tbh.

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I know of a few people who are getting Covid tests privately in Edinburgh so they can hopefully spend Xmas with their elderly parents, it’s costing them £90 each!!

Christmas rules unlikely to change except for "sterner warnings".

It sounds like instead of being told "if you don't need to meet others over Christmas, you shouldn't" we'll now be told "if you don't need to meet others over Christmas, you really shouldn't."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55327709

If I remember correctly Christian(ish) countries all over Europe and beyond were relaxing rules for Christmas. Does anyone know if/how they've changed their rules?

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Originally Posted by Jack

If I remember correctly Christian(ish) countries all over Europe and beyond were relaxing rules for Christmas. Does anyone know if/how they've changed their rules?

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Germany has announced a strict lockdown till 10th Jan so any rule changes they were looking at have been reversed totally

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Originally Posted by Jack

If I remember correctly Christian(ish) countries all over Europe and beyond were relaxing rules for Christmas. Does anyone know if/how they've changed their rules?

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Italy has a ban on travelling between different regions in place from 21st December to 6th January and people will not be allowed to leave their hometowns on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year's Day.

The current 10pm-5am curfew will remain which means the traditional midnight mass will not be able to happen, although churches can remain open.

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Originally Posted by Jones28

Just do it mate, you’re not breaking rules and being extra careful by booking tests. People who really need it will get tests.

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Do t know what it’s like up North but in Swindon there’s excess capacity. I had one in September. Booked it on the same day, got the result the next day. (Negative).

J

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Originally Posted by The_Exile

Just got a ping on the app saying I've been in close contact with someone positive on Monday. I didn't leave my flat on Monday and seen nobody. Haven't actually been out anywhere other than the bins since last Thursday. Very odd.

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What kind of property do you live in?

Strange as it sounds but the app can work through floors and walls so it could be a neighbour.

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Originally Posted by Scorrie

Germany has announced a strict lockdown till 10th Jan so any rule changes they were looking at have been reversed totally

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Not sure about travel, hospitality, and all the other things but it doesn't sound that way in terms of gatherings:

"Private gatherings will be limited to a maximum of five people from two households - with an additional four close family members allowed over Christmas."

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Originally Posted by Jack

If I remember correctly Christian(ish) countries all over Europe and beyond were relaxing rules for Christmas. Does anyone know if/how they've changed their rules?

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Shops are open in France but bars, restaurants, cinemas, etc. are still closed. Since yesterday there's a curfew in place from 8.00pm to 6.00am. The curfew is being relaxed on Christmas eve (the main family event here) but not hogmanay. They're recommending no more than 6 adults 'around a table' together at any one time and police are to be strict with house parties/people taking the piss.

People are being advised to stay confined as much as possible in the run up to Christmas and the government has announced that schools have been instructed tolerate kids' absences tomorrow and Friday - this to me is an admission that we're making a mistake.

COVID-19: For the first time in its history UNICEF will help feed children in the UK

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...he-uk-12163515

But the government can hand out contracts to their mates worth billions.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Here's an interesting question and I'm a bit torn by it.

My fiance hasn't seen her parents since January as they are based in England and obviously travel is off the menu. She was supposed to see them in October but the change of tiers and imminent lockdown in England put paid to that. The real issue is they haven't seen my daughter in a year and at 2 to 3 year old that's a big chunk of time. We had planned for them to come to us for Christmas this year whilst covid was still a distant concern in China.

They are still quite keen to visit us, I'm wary and my fiance knows why I am wary but the desire to see her parents and have them see their granddaughter is a big pressure. So my question is would it be totally immoral for us all to book tests for say the 22nd or 23rd December before they traveled? My gut instinct is that we shouldn't but I can see, if not agree with, the argument for doing so? I know the obvious answer is to stand my ground but it's an emotive subject and that is easier said than done.

Thoughts?

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I'd say that by taking the tests you are probably going further down the doing the right thing route than others will, go for it if its right for your family situation - you'll be observing the rules and not going mental because you've interpreted what the government says as handing you the ability to do what you like for 5 days.





Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Christmas rules unlikely to change except for "sterner warnings".

It sounds like instead of being told "if you don't need to meet others over Christmas, you shouldn't" we'll now be told "if you don't need to meet others over Christmas, you really shouldn't."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55327709

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Its a case of shunting the responsibility on to the individual. Telling people not to do the things they've told them they can do.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I’m sure the situation will vary greatly from city to city. The highly publicised cases of bad behaviour in Aberdeen certainly weren’t down to students who are all but invisible here just now. My sons experience in Dundee hasn’t been one of party central this past semester either ....he’s come home domesticated. :greengrin
I was replying to a poster who seemed to be implying that students shouldn’t be getting the rapid tests required to let them travel home safely. Given the mess the respective Governments made of their return to Uni I’d argue that’s the least we can do for them.

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I would definitely agree with you regarding the testing. From start to finish my thought is that the students have been treated absolutely shabbily. From directing them to come to campuses, basically locking some of them in their accommodation and supplying them inadequate food whilst in there to boot. I think providing them testing facilities in order to get them home with their families is the very least that can be done for them.

The students here are by no means invisible (many wish that they were! :greengrin ) I don't take that point of view personally but I can understand those who feel that the city is overrun with them during term time. There are around 40,000 of them here with the vast majority living in a fairly concise city centre. Some of the behaviour is absolutely appalling and it's a regular occurrence, night after night with huge get-togethers. The universities say a lot but do absolutely nothing when they should really be suspending or removed completely students from their courses. They do nothing, even after police convictions.

In truth, behaviour is bad every year. Self-entitled students write comments in the local rag winding up the local community, attempting to place responsibility for high infection rates on everybody but themselves. They tell people in old established residential districts that 'if they don't like it they shouldn't live in "student areas"' They regularly snub the restrictions that the vast majority of local people abide and take the piss out of anyone who dares challenge them on it.

One of the worst aspects of all this is that they have largely turned the local community against the student population and I think at some point this is not going to end up well or very pretty for some decent kids. Adjacent the areas where students tend to live are some pretty 'challenged' areas with a lot of knife crime, guns, drugs and gangs. In their own 'law' some of those people won't need any excuse to make life very difficult indeed for the student population, a sizeable amount of that population coming from comfortably off Home Counties backgrounds and visibly so.

Aside from all that J, it's nice to hear about your lad getting set up and I hope he enjoys his university years which are a special time. I also sincerely hope he's getting on with your vacuuming as we speak!

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

What kind of property do you live in?

Strange as it sounds but the app can work through floors and walls so it could be a neighbour.

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Ground floor flat with folk next door to me and above me so that was my initial thought too. Checking Bluetooth connections on my phone does show another phone from time to time which I assume is a neighbours. Can’t really be any other explanation.

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Originally Posted by The_Exile

Ground floor flat with folk next door to me and above me so that was my initial thought too. Checking Bluetooth connections on my phone does show another phone from time to time which I assume is a neighbours. Can’t really be any other explanation.

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If you can detect their Bluetooth connection, then that's enough for the App to register you as a Contact (presuming they've had a positive test).

As you've quite clearly not been in contact with anybody, I'd imagine it can be safely ignored.

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Originally Posted by The_Exile

Ground floor flat with folk next door to me and above me so that was my initial thought too. Checking Bluetooth connections on my phone does show another phone from time to time which I assume is a neighbours. Can’t really be any other explanation.

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This must be happening to loads of people. For folk that have been out mingling they wouldn't have the certainty you have with knowing you haven't had any contacts.

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Originally Posted by The_Exile

Ground floor flat with folk next door to me and above me so that was my initial thought too. Checking Bluetooth connections on my phone does show another phone from time to time which I assume is a neighbours. Can’t really be any other explanation.

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I think phoning Test and Protect to check is possibly the best advice.

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Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

I think phoning Test and Protect to check is possibly the best advice.

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I'd agree although I'm curious as to what they could say/confirm at this point though.

They should be able to know if you've been traced due to a contact that also lives in your building and that would give you some confidence that it has been an error due to Bluetooth through the wall... But I'm not sure if they'd confirm that to you or not.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

I'd agree although I'm curious as to what they could say/confirm at this point though.

They should be able to know if you've been traced due to a contact that also lives in your building and that would give you some confidence that it has been an error due to Bluetooth through the wall... But I'm not sure if they'd confirm that to you or not.

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These were pretty much my thoughts too.

Just called test and protect and unfortunately there’s just nothing they can do to confirm my suspicions of it being a ping from a neighbours phone. I just can’t think it would be anything else considering I’ve not been out the flat since last Thursday to nip to Tesco.

They did mention that if it was what I thought then I’d likely get more pings on the app if the phones are in close proximity over the next couple of weeks. I’ll keep an eye on it and carry on as normal I suppose.

Just heard something suggesting no change to the Christmas relaxations agreed.


BBC Wales

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Sterner warnings about the dangers of mixing over Christmas are likely to be issued by the four UK nations, but a change to the rules is not expected.

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Originally Posted by The_Exile

Just called test and protect and unfortunately there’s just nothing they can do to confirm my suspicions of it being a ping from a neighbours phone. I just can’t think it would be anything else considering I’ve not been out the flat since last Thursday to nip to Tesco.

They did mention that if it was what I thought then I’d likely get more pings on the app if the phones are in close proximity over the next couple of weeks. I’ll keep an eye on it and carry on as normal I suppose.

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Here was a not-dissimilar case:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54418278

'John said: "Thinking about the house and the dimension, I suppose it wouldn't be that hard to be within two metres, albeit that there's a wall separating us."

When he contacted the NHS Protect Scotland app and explained the situation he was told he did not have to continue self-isolating.'