The Trans Rights Debate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 147lothian

Amanda Benson, is a mum of four who says she was so terrified her nerves were frazzled, when she was a prisoner at Gateside women only prison Greenock, because she was in there with two men who identified as women, one was a convicted murderer, the other who was over six foot and was there for domestic violence.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/e...aring-29075541

---

Yet...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-64431383

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Yet...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-64431383

---

She felt compelled to undergo an invasive procedure because she feared being raped while sharing prison facilities with two violent male offenders...but Keith Brown reckons it's OK because she didn't actually come to harm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Yet...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-64431383

---

Is the fear and wanting a safe space like in the shower not enough or do we dismiss them. I don't think sexual assaults would rise but I do believe females should have a right to female only spaces

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by He's here!

She felt compelled to undergo an invasive procedure because she feared being raped while sharing prison facilities with two violent male offenders...but Keith Brown reckons it's OK because she didn't actually come to harm.

---

Did he say that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Yet...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-64431383

---

I doubt you meant that "yet" in the way it came across.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James310

I doubt you meant that "yet" in the way it came across.

---

I'm not sure how it came across.

The point of my post was to say that we have 1 story from a former inmate, and a conflicting version from Keith Brown.

That is all. No opinion, not siding one way or the other.

Reminds me of the article on here earlier severely disabled lady who said as she had memory loss problems she wanted female only care. Someone on here dismissed her fears saying she's worried about hypotheticals and should take the care she is given.

Women's rights and wishes are legitimate. It's about balancing rights gained against loss to others. I don't believe there is many places or situations where there is issues. I don't understand why it has to be all or nothing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I'm not sure how it came across.

The point of my post was to say that we have 1 story from a former inmate, and a conflicting version from Keith Brown.

That is all. No opinion, not siding one way or the other.

---

By all accounts it would be the men who were more at risk from Amanda Benson!


https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/17280440.amanda-benson-told-must-unpaid-work----jailed/


Amanda Benson was out on bail regarding a separate allegation of serious assault when she pursued and attacked a man in the street before sinking her teeth into a male PC's hand at 2am.

Not to diminish any safety concerns in prison specifically re: sexual assaults committed by anyone idenifying as a transwoman, but for context woman prisoners have had safety concerns going back over a decade. This report on Cornton Vale's prisoner assualt rates and suicide figures is a shocking indication of the fear many non violent prisoners live with daily. Hopefully there are more recent and much improved stats since this was published.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/...prison-1658748

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

I'm not sure how it came across.

The point of my post was to say that we have 1 story from a former inmate, and a conflicting version from Keith Brown.

That is all. No opinion, not siding one way or the other.

---

What's conflicting?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James310

What's conflicting?

---

She says that she shared spaces with trans men, one of whom was there for violence against women, the other for murder.

Keith Brown says that "no trans prisoners with a history of violence against women were being held in female prisons."

Unless it's a question of timing (she is relating the past, he the present), the 2 accounts conflict.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

She says that she shared spaces with trans men, one of whom was there for violence against women, the other for murder.

Keith Brown says that "no trans prisoners with a history of violence against women were being held in female prisons."

Unless it's a question of timing (she is relating the past, he the present), the 2 accounts conflict.

---

Gateside in greenock is not a women's prison. There are 5 accommodation units, one for women, another for people under supervision for release. Unless they all use a single shower block then I find it hard to see how the situation she described is possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

She says that she shared spaces with trans men, one of whom was there for violence against women, the other for murder.

Keith Brown says that "no trans prisoners with a history of violence against women were being held in female prisons."

Unless it's a question of timing (she is relating the past, he the present), the 2 accounts conflict.

---

I read it as Keith Brown saying that as of today, they have obviously been busy over the weekend moving prisoners. I don't think the lady is making it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Gateside in greenock is not a women's prison. There are 5 accommodation units, one for women, another for people under supervision for release. Unless they all use a single shower block then I find it hard to see how the situation she described is possible.

---

The Record piece suggests that they did share spaces.

“We were told his name was Laura and that we would need to call him by that name, while the murderer was called Alex.

https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/s...oGlcA-gxw&s=19

The use of the words "has just" suggests it's just happened.

"Does Scotland’s First Minister believe all trans women are women?

Scottish Gov has just implemented an effective ban on trans prisoners who’ve committed sexual & violent crimes against women being moved to a women-only prison."

Are violent women excluded from women only prisons? Do women not also need protection from violent women?


You can't exclude everyone who is a threat, but you can try your best to protect those most at risk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by James310

I read it as Keith Brown saying that as of today, they have obviously been busy over the weekend moving prisoners. I don't think the lady is making it up.

---

That's fair enough.

Both telling their own truth.

And with an outcome which should be acceptable to most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Are violent women excluded from women only prisons? Do women not also need protection from violent women?


You can't exclude everyone who is a threat, but you can try your best to protect those most at risk.

---

Protecting prisoners from harm is of no interest to 99% of the UK population and this thread is no different. This is about who might commit some harm rather than stopping harm. There are no long threads on here worrying about the shocking levels of violence and self harm in our prisons. Nobody actually cares about these prisoners at all. This is about attacking trans people and NS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Protecting prisoners from harm is of no interest to 99% of the UK population and this thread is no different. This is about who might commit some harm rather than stopping harm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Yep, and Amanda Benson is someone who is a threat to other people. That's why she was in greenock prison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Protecting prisoners from harm is of no interest to 99% of the UK population and this thread is no different. This is about who might commit some harm rather than stopping harm. There are no long threads on here worrying about the shocking levels of violence and self harm in our prisons. Nobody actually cares about these prisoners at all. This is about attacking trans people and NS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

If the % you quote was true re: public interest, stories of violence and suicide in prison would not make headline news imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

If the % you quote was true re: public interest, stories of violence and suicide in prison would not make headline news imo.

---

Public interest there would be "violence". Keeping prisoners 'safe' doesn't sell papers, violence (doesn't matter where from) does.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Protecting prisoners from harm is of no interest to 99% of the UK population and this thread is no different. This is about who might commit some harm rather than stopping harm. There are no long threads on here worrying about the shocking levels of violence and self harm in our prisons. Nobody actually cares about these prisoners at all. This is about attacking trans people and NS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Utter nonsense frankly. If people didn't speak up this week a rapist with male biology would be in a female prison, just like sexual criminal katie dolatowski is.

There isn't long threads about prison violence because no one would defend it, its obviously deplorable.

The other poster comparing female murderers being in female prisons is also ridiculous. In the last 5 years 99% of rapists prosecuted are males. If you can't see the difference your ditsy or have an agenda

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kato

Public interest there would be "violence". Keeping prisoners 'safe' doesn't sell papers, violence (doesn't matter where from) does.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

---

There was a huge story recently of the poor Las that committed suicide in Cornton Vale due to be imprisoned for something minor

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Utter nonsense frankly. If people didn't speak up this week a rapist with male biology would be in a female prison, just like sexual criminal katie dolatowski is.

There isn't long threads about prison violence because no one would defend it, its obviously deplorable.

The other poster comparing female murderers being in female prisons is also ridiculous. In the last 5 years 99% of rapists prosecuted are males. If you can't see the difference your ditsy or have an agenda

---

The first paragraph you just made up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;7260346]Yet...

Amanda Benson is in a female prison with 40 prisoners, two of who are biologically male, one is there for murder, the other who she describes as very scary, is over 6 foot and is there for domestic violence to say, "yet" Do you mean she has nothing to worry about in this situation, as you don't care about vulnerable women in prison or that as these are males who identify as female, so she has nothing to worry about? In either case this does come across as a tad misogynistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h83OeA42xUo

[QUOTE=147lothian;7260575]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Yet...

Amanda Benson is in a female prison with 40 prisoners, two of who are biologically male, one is there for murder, the other who she describes as very scary, is over 6 foot and is there for domestic violence to say, "yet" Do you mean she has nothing to worry about in this situation, as you don't care about vulnerable women in prison or that as these are males who identify as female, so she has nothing to worry about? In either case this does come across as a tad misogynistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h83OeA42xUo

---

My post was meant to highlight the apparent conflict in the 2 stories, which now seems to have been resolved. No opinion was offered .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Did he say that?

---

That's what I took you to be implying by countering the woman's claims with the Brown story.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 147lothian

Amanda Benson is in a female prison with 40 prisoners, two of who are biologically male, one is there for murder, the other who she describes as very scary, is over 6 foot and is there for domestic violence to say, "yet" Do you mean she has nothing to worry about in this situation, as you don't care about vulnerable women in prison or that as these are males who identify as female, so she has nothing to worry about? In either case this does come across as a tad misogynistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h83OeA42xUo

---

Gateside in greenock is not a women's prison. There are 5 accommodation units, one for women, another for people under supervision for release. Unless they all use a single shower block then I find it hard to see how the situation she described is possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Protecting prisoners from harm is of no interest to 99% of the UK population and this thread is no different. This is about who might commit some harm rather than stopping harm. There are no long threads on here worrying about the shocking levels of violence and self harm in our prisons. Nobody actually cares about these prisoners at all. This is about attacking trans people and NS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Oh Ozy. This is text book deflection. How do you know that nobody cares? Just because there isn't a thread here? I can only speak for myself, but my issues relate to poorly formed policy and badly drafted legislation. The fact that vulnerable women are just seen as collateral damage appalls me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns

Yep, and Amanda Benson is someone who is a threat to other people. That's why she was in greenock prison.

---

So she had it coming?