Coronavirus

I’m holding out for a progressive timetable from the UK Govt on Sunday before getting overly frustrated at the FM’s approach.


There was an interesting question from someone to the FM that referenced the Swedish view. I didn’t quite catch it but I think it was along the lines of:-

C19 is impossible to stop
Everyone will probably get it
90%+ will have no or very mild symptoms
They will do everything they can to protect those most at risk.


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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Yes the decision to allow people out for more exercise is due to be announced next week. I missed about the last 15 minutes to go and make my lunch so I may have missed another announcement. Are we getting a timetable outlined on Monday? If so that's good news.

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She said she was talking to Boris later on today. Having said she was 'considering the exercise restrictions' I would imagine she will go with loosening them.

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

I’m holding out for a progressive timetable from the UK Govt on Sunday before getting overly frustrated at the FM’s approach.


There was an interesting question from someone to the FM that referenced the Swedish view. I didn’t quite catch it but I think it was along the lines of:-

C19 is impossible to stop
Everyone will probably get it
90%+ will have no or very mild symptoms
They will do everything they can to protect those most at risk.


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I think it was the guy from The Times (something McLaughlin maybe?). He said a WHO scientist had 'gone rogue' and suggested we can't outrun coronavirus and if you count deaths 12 months down the line they will be broadly the same whether a country has locked down or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

I'm sorry to hear that.

Glad to hear you have been quickly offered a test.

If you feel up to it, keep us posted on how you're feeling.

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Offered a test as I'm classed as a key worker (working in social care).

Test wasn't pleasant, but overall it was a speedy procedure and the army staff looked to be well organised.

Place was deserted though.

Should have results in 24 hours according the the official.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

I think it was the guy from The Times (something McLaughlin maybe?). He said a WHO scientist had 'gone rogue' and suggested we can't outrun coronavirus and if you count deaths 12 months down the line they will be broadly the same whether a country has locked down or otherwise.

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Not to sound insensitive but you would think there are only so many people within the population who are vulnerable and at risk to the virus. Many have caught the virus despite current measures

Is the below standard practice?

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...-sun-1-6639776

I understand government will have the ability to communicate privately but total encryption and irretrievable messaging with an advisor? That seems very odd and seems a very deliberate ploy to stop their communication being used as evidence in an future enquiry or legal action.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

I really can't see Boris announcing any meaningful changes anytime soon. It'll be the exercise thing which is a load of waffle anyway. Most people are just exercising as much as they fancy anyway from what I can see.

The newspaper headlines suggesting it are playing a dangerous game in England ahead of a sunny bank holiday weekend.

"It's 24C outside and we're going to be free on Monday anyway" should be a popular phrase over the next 2 days.

Maybe that sort of reckless behaviour is exactly what they need to happen in order to extend the lockdown and blame the public though.


While such headlines also get people worked up in Scotland regarding conflicting advice and the political landscape of "Holyrood V Westminster".

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I think that's right. Thread here based on the regular Downing St briefing to journos:

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status...74434609680386

I think the right-wing press like the Torygraph are trying to ramp up the pressure for more significant easing but they won't get their way this time.

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Originally Posted by HendoDelivered

Has anyone noticed that countries like New Zealand are preparing to exit lockdown because they have virtually zero news cases of Covid whereas Johnson is talking about the UK exiting with thousands still being infected each day? Does that worry anyone as much as it worries me?

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I said similar on this thread earlier. This virus started with a handful of infections and went exponential, I dread to think what will happen with 170 000 infected people roaming the streets.

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Originally Posted by Chorley Hibee

Offered a test as I'm classed as a key worker (working in social care).

Test wasn't pleasant, but overall it was a speedy procedure and the army staff looked to be well organised.

Place was deserted though.

Should have results in 24 hours according the the official.

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Sounds pretty efficient, and just as PaulSmith stated yesterday surprisingly quiet, reassuring how quick they get back to you with a result too. Take it easy in the meantime and thanks for posting.

Email from my Head Teacher to say that when we return in August there will be a maximum occupancy of 1/4 of the pupils with the remaining pupils to access the lesson online at home.

I presume that it might be the most vulnerable pupils returning on campus with the rest working remotely.

I can't see this working, the quality of teaching and learning will be horrendous.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Is the below standard practice?

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...-sun-1-6639776

I understand government will have the ability to communicate privately but total encryption and irretrievable messaging with an advisor? That seems very odd and seems a very deliberate ploy to stop their communication being used as evidence in an future enquiry or legal action.

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...or, after Raab's recent announcement about the cyber threats posed by dubious nations, they could be taking even more necessary precautions to avoid the enhanced threats.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

I said similar on this thread earlier. This virus started with a handful of infections and went exponential, I dread to think what will happen with 170 000 infected people roaming the streets.

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Do you think we need to start being consistent and use the Scottish figures all the time or should we use the UK numbers?


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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

...or, after Raab's recent announcement about the cyber threats posed by dubious nations, they could be taking even more necessary precautions to avoid the enhanced threats.

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Put me firmly in the sceptical camp.

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Originally Posted by H18 SFR

Email from my Head Teacher to say that when we return in August there will be a maximum occupancy of 1/4 of the pupils with the remaining pupils to access the lesson online at home.

I presume that it might be the most vulnerable pupils returning on campus with the rest working remotely.

I can't see this working, the quality of teaching and learning will be horrendous.

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I sincerely hope that they are using the worst case scenarios for this type of planning rather than this being the ‘new normal’ and all of the terrible consequences that come with it.

By all means plan and be ready but its far too early to be saying that “this is what it will be like” and ignoring everything that has been learnt about how to control all the risks of C19.


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My work have just sent round a memo advising that no matter what the government announce they won't be rushing to get everyone back in the office til it's a lot safer to do so

They also said they might open things up regionally depending on how things are in certain areas of the UK, my work def have the ear of the government so makes what Jack and Mogg were spouting yesterday even more idiotic

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

I sincerely hope that they are using the worst case scenarios for this type of planning rather than this being the ‘new normal’ and all of the terrible consequences that come with it.

By all means plan and be ready but its far too early to be saying that “this is what it will be like” and ignoring everything that has been learnt about how to control all the risks of C19.


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And a further 3 months of learning about the virus, and whatever developments could come

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

Do you think we need to start being consistent and use the Scottish figures all the time or should we use the UK numbers?


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I'm not sure that will help too much.

Nicola Sturgeon said on Tuesday that she said there were approximately 26000 currently infectious people in Scotland.

Proportionately that's a lot higher than the estimated 170000 in the whole of the UK.

I’ve been working at home since the lockdown started so have the IT etc. I can’t see me getting to the office until September at least. I use public transport to get to work but it’s going to be at around 20% capacity so not worth even trying if I can work from home.

Could the government have done more earlier for those undortunates in the care home system? Or at least fully shared the information they had?


https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...mpression=true

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Originally Posted by puff the dragon

and rightly so. UK government > Scotttish government

any difference to the rest of UK will be nothing more than standard SNP mischief making at the expense of the population.

the worst thing about this is that we are expected to follow the instructions of SNP filth in Scotland and Tory filth in UK, with labour filth being the only alternative.

liars on stands preaching to us when all they care about is their own self preservation and interests.

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And there are some who do not want the virus to be political!!!!

If you had been listening to the first minister you would have known that she preferred all 4 parts of the UK to ease restriction at the same time, when the 4 nations all agree that level of infection is at a low rate.

If the English decision is to ease restrictions before that point then it risks an increase in infection rate across the whole UK.

Only 'very limited' changes in England to be announced according to the PMs spokeperson.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Is the below standard practice?

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...-sun-1-6639776

I understand government will have the ability to communicate privately but total encryption and irretrievable messaging with an advisor? That seems very odd and seems a very deliberate ploy to stop their communication being used as evidence in an future enquiry or legal action.

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It's not a huge amount on top of a whatsapp. I think they use the same encryption technique. It maybe cleans up after itself better on the actual phone.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

Only 'very limited' changes in England to be announced according to the PMs spokeperson.

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So apart from the right wing red top editors who decided to put pressure on Westminster to loosen the lockdown there is no evidence that the UK and Scotland Governments were ever going to deviate significantly at this point?

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Originally Posted by marinello59

So apart from the right wing red top editors who decided to put pressure on Westminster to loosen the lockdown there is no evidence that the UK and Scotland Governments were ever going to deviate significantly at this point?

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Nope.

Whenever any of them at Westminster or Holyrood are asked about it they seem pretty resolute in their stance that they want to cooperate and act as one on this and they'll do so as much as is practical.

Media stirring up trouble as best they can though IMO.

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Originally Posted by BroxburnHibee

I was covering up long before it was advised anyway. It's just common sense.

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Incorrect. You were covering up while the government were advising that there was no real benefit to their use. Then still covering up when they advised that there may be a small benefit but that the science was weak. I haven't noticed an especially high uptake in mask wearing and who can be surprised given the lengths they went to early on to dismiss them? I'm not sure where common sense comes into it.

I can imagine a nasty foreign spy being delighted at having hacked into private communication between Boris and Cummings only to discover they've actually spent the whole of lockdown exchanging funny memes of "that guy", just like the rest of us.

Over 5600 new cases since yesterday across the UK.

It would have been crazy to make any big changes.

R level apparently between 0.5 and 0.9.

Dominic Raab saying the R number across the U.K. sits between 0.5 and 0.9

Johnson will be setting out the next steps over the weekend apparently

539 deaths registered since yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Barney McGrew

Dominic Raab saying the R number across the U.K. sits between 0.5 and 0.9

Johnson will be setting out the next steps over the weekend apparently

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Never saw that coming. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

Do you think we need to start being consistent and use the Scottish figures all the time or should we use the UK numbers?


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At present Scotland doesn't have the power to exercise full control over this crisis and has to tow along with Westminster's strategy. If Scotland had full control over its finances and borders in particular, then, and only then could it deviate enough from Westminster strategy to warrant adopting its own plan to fight the virus. It's pointless using different figures when it's likely the population of both regions will be allowed to intermingle uncontrolled in the near future. As long as "we're in this together" then Scotland's options are limited.

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Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

Could the government have done more earlier for those undortunates in the care home system? Or at least fully shared the information they had?


https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...mpression=true

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I think the answer to that is a resounding YES.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

At present Scotland doesn't have the power to exercise full control over this crisis and has to tow along with Westminster's strategy. If Scotland had full control over its finances and borders in particular, then, and only then could it deviate enough from Westminster strategy to warrant adopting its own plan to fight the virus. It's pointless using different figures when it's likely the population of both regions will be allowed to intermingle uncontrolled in the near future. As long as "we're in this together" then Scotland's options are limited.

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I'd be interested to know whether the fact that Scotland has followed the same (crap) scientific/medical advice as the UK is down to our officials not having autonomy, or relying on the same duff inputs or just choosing to all go down the wrong paths together?

I think there have been political and scientific failures in the UK/Scotland relative to other countries but, while I expected the political ones, it's been really disappointing how crap our "boffins" have turned out to be.

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

Over 5600 new cases since yesterday across the UK.

It would have been crazy to make any big changes.

R level apparently between 0.5 and 0.9.

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I tend to think the 'new cases' figure is a bit of a red herring; if they're testing more people then inevitably that will go up. Of course, it still might not scratch the surface but could quite a few of these 'new' cases not be folk who have been infected for a while but just diagnosed now?

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Originally Posted by Sir David Gray

I'm not sure that will help too much.

Nicola Sturgeon said on Tuesday that she said there were approximately 26000 currently infectious people in Scotland.

Proportionately that's a lot higher than the estimated 170000 in the whole of the UK.

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Kings College London estimate 256k with symptomatic cv19 in the uk. That ties in more with scottish governments 26 assessment.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

I'd be interested to know whether the fact that Scotland has followed the same (crap) scientific/medical advice as the UK is down to our officials not having autonomy, or relying on the same duff inputs or just choosing to all go down the wrong paths together?

I think there have been political and scientific failures in the UK/Scotland relative to other countries but, while I expected the political ones, it's been really disappointing how crap our "boffins" have turned out to be.

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This is based on instinct rather than fact, but I reckon the vast majority of our problems will ultimately boil down to "supply chains" both at UK and Scotland level.

Access to adequate levels of PPE will have killed many, and I have a hunch that there will end up being a fundamental mechanical reason why we couldn't go down the test and trace route favoured by other countries and recommended by the WHO.

Again hunch and absolutely zero evidence, I reckon it will be Brexit linked. If we were still in the EU, we'd have had a different dynamic to relationships with other counties/ blocs and been able to easier source what we need.

I think we'll have had a government so obsessed with Brexit and distancing ourselves from Europe that it will have been to our great detriment.

There was a time in early-mid March when Boris suddenly looked haunted. I reckon that was when he realised we were Donald Ducked, there was nothing we could do about it other than piffle, waffle and bluster.

The science can tell you what it wants, if your answer is "we huvnae got any of that, what else can you suggest" then you're scuppered.

Pure hunch, zero evidence. I'm not going delivering any dossiers anywhere soon alleging anything but there you go.

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Originally Posted by SideBurns

I tend to think the 'new cases' figure is a bit of a red herring; if they're testing more people then inevitably that will go up. Of course, it still might not scratch the surface but could quite a few of these 'new' cases not be folk who have been infected for a while but just diagnosed now?

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There were less than 4000 cases reported on Monday out of 85000 tests. Today it's over 5600 cases out of 86000 tests.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

This is based on instinct rather than fact, but I reckon the vast majority of our problems will ultimately boil down to "supply chains" both at UK and Scotland level.

Access to adequate levels of PPE will have killed many, and I have a hunch that there will end up being a fundamental mechanical reason why we couldn't go down the test and trace route favoured by other countries and recommended by the WHO.

Again hunch and absolutely zero evidence, I reckon it will be Brexit linked. If we were still in the EU, we'd have had a different dynamic to relationships with other counties/ blocs and been able to easier source what we need.

I think we'll have had a government so obsessed with Brexit and distancing ourselves from Europe that it will have been to our great detriment.

There was a time in early-mid March when Boris suddenly looked haunted. I reckon that was when he realised we were Donald Ducked, there was nothing we could do about it other than piffle, waffle and bluster.

The science can tell you what it wants, if your answer is "we huvnae got any of that, what else can you suggest" then you're scuppered.

Pure hunch, zero evidence. I'm not going delivering any dossiers anywhere soon alleging anything but there you go.

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It's pretty plausible, depressingly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

This is based on instinct rather than fact, but I reckon the vast majority of our problems will ultimately boil down to "supply chains" both at UK and Scotland level.

Access to adequate levels of PPE will have killed many, and I have a hunch that there will end up being a fundamental mechanical reason why we couldn't go down the test and trace route favoured by other countries and recommended by the WHO.

Again hunch and absolutely zero evidence, I reckon it will be Brexit linked. If we were still in the EU, we'd have had a different dynamic to relationships with other counties/ blocs and been able to easier source what we need.

I think we'll have had a government so obsessed with Brexit and distancing ourselves from Europe that it will have been to our great detriment.

There was a time in early-mid March when Boris suddenly looked haunted. I reckon that was when he realised we were Donald Ducked, there was nothing we could do about it other than piffle, waffle and bluster.

The science can tell you what it wants, if your answer is "we huvnae got any of that, what else can you suggest" then you're scuppered.

Pure hunch, zero evidence. I'm not going delivering any dossiers anywhere soon alleging anything but there you go.

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I reckon you're on the mark. Ill prepared due to blundering, poor response due to blundering, unable to procure proper equipment due to previous blundering, blundering strategy forced upon us due to previous blundering and blundering excuses to try and cover up the blundering. I think there's a pattern emerging here.

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Originally Posted by Smartie

This is based on instinct rather than fact, but I reckon the vast majority of our problems will ultimately boil down to "supply chains" both at UK and Scotland level.

Access to adequate levels of PPE will have killed many, and I have a hunch that there will end up being a fundamental mechanical reason why we couldn't go down the test and trace route favoured by other countries and recommended by the WHO.

Again hunch and absolutely zero evidence, I reckon it will be Brexit linked. If we were still in the EU, we'd have had a different dynamic to relationships with other counties/ blocs and been able to easier source what we need.

I think we'll have had a government so obsessed with Brexit and distancing ourselves from Europe that it will have been to our great detriment.

There was a time in early-mid March when Boris suddenly looked haunted. I reckon that was when he realised we were Donald Ducked, there was nothing we could do about it other than piffle, waffle and bluster.

The science can tell you what it wants, if your answer is "we huvnae got any of that, what else can you suggest" then you're scuppered.

Pure hunch, zero evidence. I'm not going delivering any dossiers anywhere soon alleging anything but there you go.

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That’s probably very close to the truth. The haunted Johnston realisation that we are ****ed exacerbated by the fact he had the virus at that time. He really must have **** himself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smartie

This is based on instinct rather than fact, but I reckon the vast majority of our problems will ultimately boil down to "supply chains" both at UK and Scotland level.

Access to adequate levels of PPE will have killed many, and I have a hunch that there will end up being a fundamental mechanical reason why we couldn't go down the test and trace route favoured by other countries and recommended by the WHO.

Again hunch and absolutely zero evidence, I reckon it will be Brexit linked. If we were still in the EU, we'd have had a different dynamic to relationships with other counties/ blocs and been able to easier source what we need.

I think we'll have had a government so obsessed with Brexit and distancing ourselves from Europe that it will have been to our great detriment.

There was a time in early-mid March when Boris suddenly looked haunted. I reckon that was when he realised we were Donald Ducked, there was nothing we could do about it other than piffle, waffle and bluster.

The science can tell you what it wants, if your answer is "we huvnae got any of that, what else can you suggest" then you're scuppered.

Pure hunch, zero evidence. I'm not going delivering any dossiers anywhere soon alleging anything but there you go.

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But we are still in the EU.

We'd have had status as an EU country and the rights as such throughout.

If we did forgo those rights in an effort to be "less EU" in our approach as was suggested with the PPE dealings then that's another thing. More to do with the stupidity of government rather than strictly Brexit.

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Originally Posted by Hiberniankb

Why is there so many planes in the sky? Flight radar is packed with planes all day, why are people allowed to travel?

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Well? Anyone?

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

At present Scotland doesn't have the power to exercise full control over this crisis and has to tow along with Westminster's strategy. If Scotland had full control over its finances and borders in particular, then, and only then could it deviate enough from Westminster strategy to warrant adopting its own plan to fight the virus. It's pointless using different figures when it's likely the population of both regions will be allowed to intermingle uncontrolled in the near future. As long as "we're in this together" then Scotland's options are limited.

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https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/...091817985?s=21

It sounds like from this interview that Scotland fully agreed with Westminster.

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Originally Posted by Hiberniankb

Well? Anyone?

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world keeps turning and life goes on

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Originally Posted by Hiberniankb

Well? Anyone?

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Cargo and essential travellers? :dunno:

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Originally Posted by Hiberniankb

Well? Anyone?

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There was a poster on here the other day who said he was a plane geek and managed to identify how many planes were in Scottish airspace that day and the types of flights. At the time there was one military plane and one commercial (presumed a repatriated flight) if I recall correctly. Perhaps the poster mentioned can shine some light on it for you.

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Originally Posted by Santa Cruz

There was a poster on here the other day who said he was a plane geek and managed to identify how many planes were in Scottish airspace that day and the types of flights. At the time there was one military plane and one commercial (presumed a repatriated flight) if I recall correctly. Perhaps the poster mentioned can shine some light on it for you.

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That was me.

I track Flight Radar 24 quite often and airspace is definitely far quieter than usual across the world as a whole. The data from the airlines themselves as well as other sources backs that up.

Currently there is only one more scheduled flight out of Edinburgh today, a domestic flight to East Midlands. Only 4 flights arrived at Glasgow all afternoon, 3 domestic from the Scottish Islands and one from Dublin. There is no other commercial passenger flights expected today. Currently there is a flight from Frankfurt to Atlanta and one from Istanbul to Miami over the Hebrides. A Loganair flight has just left Glasgow for London and a privately registered jet is approaching Aberdeen having travelled from France. That's it for the entirity of Scottish airspace. Even around London, some of the busiest airspace in Europe, there is only about half a dozen flights. There's also very little traffic around the Lufthansa hub of Frankfurt.

The big increase in the last couple of weeks has been in Chinese airspace but that's understandable given they are on their way out of lockdown.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

That was me.

I track Flight Radar 24 quite often and airspace is definitely far quieter than usual across the world as a whole. The data from the airlines themselves as well as other sources backs that up.

Currently there is only one more scheduled flight out of Edinburgh today, a domestic flight to East Midlands. Only 4 flights arrived at Glasgow all afternoon, 3 domestic from the Scottish Islands and one from Dublin. There is no other commercial passenger flights expected today. Currently there is a flight from Frankfurt to Atlanta and one from Istanbul to Miami over the Hebrides. A Loganair flight has just left Glasgow for London and a privately registered jet is approaching Aberdeen having travelled from France. That's it for the entirity of Scottish airspace. Even around London, some of the busiest airspace in Europe, there is only about half a dozen flights. There's also very little traffic around the Lufthansa hub of Frankfurt.

The big increase in the last couple of weeks has been in Chinese airspace but that's understandable given they are on their way out of lockdown.

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I think the East Midlands one is a Royal mail flight, it seems to do that run each night.

I happened to be looking at Flight radar earlier as a big RAF C-17 Starlifter came over from Stavanger. It did a touch and go at Edinburgh Airport then headed off down the coast (pausing to circle North Berwick for some reason).

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/...091817985?s=21

It sounds like from this interview that Scotland fully agreed with Westminster.

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Of course they did...hence why the took similar timed actions.

To say otherwise is re-writing history and pure deflection.

It will be a recurring theme on here and elsewhere though that Scotland was ‘forced’ to go along with Boris and only if we had more powers we would have done it different.

This interview, as if it was needed, shows that to be a complete fallacy.

And of course it helps to explain just how drastically they under estimated the threat to the older population.

Nationwide social distancing - Not needed and totally impractical anyway

Not visiting elderly - Nonsense scare mongering. If I’m not coughing then no danger to anyone.

Locking down care homes - More trouble than it’s worth.

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Originally Posted by SideBurns

I tend to think the 'new cases' figure is a bit of a red herring; if they're testing more people then inevitably that will go up. Of course, it still might not scratch the surface but could quite a few of these 'new' cases not be folk who have been infected for a while but just diagnosed now?

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Indeed, the amount of new cases will rise by a lot however the death rate will not change its rate.

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/...091817985?s=21

It sounds like from this interview that Scotland fully agreed with Westminster.

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Yep, made all the same mistakes based on the same "science". The question is why? I wonder if we'll get our own inquiry or be lumped into a UK-wide one.

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Of course they did...hence why the took similar timed actions.

To say otherwise is re-writing history and pure deflection.

It will be a recurring theme on here and elsewhere though that Scotland was ‘forced’ to go along with Boris and only if we had more powers we would have done it different.

This interview, as if it was needed, shows that to be a complete fallacy.

And of course it helps to explain just how drastically they under estimated the threat to the older population.

Nationwide social distancing - Not needed and totally impractical anyway

Not visiting elderly - Nonsense scare mongering. If I’m not coughing then no danger to anyone.

Locking down care homes - More trouble than it’s worth.

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If they are both following the same science and advice it’s not a surprise they are doing the same or similar things to mitigate the virus. It’ll be interesting when the heat is off how ,when they can , go different politically about lifting lockdown.

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Originally Posted by greenlex

If they are both following the same science and advice it’s not a surprise they are doing the same or similar things to mitigate the virus. It’ll be interesting when the heat is off how ,when they can , go different politically about lifting lockdown.

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From what I’ve seen and heard so far there appears to still be broad consensus on the lockdown lift...I do though see a possibility that England might look to lift quicker at some point but so far no real tangible evidence that is the case so far.

And I seriously doubt we will see a huge difference appear. Like pubs opening in England while still closed here for weeks after. All parties will know that is in no ones interest for that to happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greenlex

If they are both following the same science and advice it’s not a surprise they are doing the same or similar things to mitigate the virus. It’ll be interesting when the heat is off how ,when they can , go different politically about lifting lockdown.

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I wonder if he still believes what he said only a few weeks ago, I cannot see a person of his standing and experience changing his mind over such a short period of time.

Does he still think that the lockdown was required and that the message should’ve been more “If you are ill you should stay away from the vulnerable?”


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Following up from the test yesterday, results returned this evening.

So the process works to test and get results back all within 36hrs.


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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

From what I’ve seen and heard so far there appears to still be broad consensus on the lockdown lift...I do though see a possibility that England might look to lift quicker at some point but so far no real tangible evidence that is the case so far.

And I seriously doubt we will see a huge difference appear. Like pubs opening in England while still closed here for weeks after. All parties will know that is in no ones interest for that to happen.

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I can’t see any inclosed Pubs opening anytime soon!

Pubs with an outside seating area, where staff table serve them, have a better chance

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

From what I’ve seen and heard so far there appears to still be broad consensus on the lockdown lift...I do though see a possibility that England might look to lift quicker at some point but so far no real tangible evidence that is the case so far.

And I seriously doubt we will see a huge difference appear. Like pubs opening in England while still closed here for weeks after. All parties will know that is in no ones interest for that to happen.

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Surely a unionist like Boris Johnson wouldn’t want to take any part of the UK out of lockdown until all parts of the UK were ready? I thought it was all part of coming out in lock step?


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Surely a unionist like Boris Johnson wouldn’t want to take any part of the UK out of lockdown until all parts of the UK were ready? I thought it was all part of coming out in lock step?


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As I said I don’t see any great divergence happening soon or ever to be honest.

But to some degree, why not?

Could the islands of Scotland come out of lockdown before the big cities? Possibly and maybe probably should.

If Scotland’s cases were super low and TTI up and running and England not would I be expecting some sort of easing in Scotland before England, sure.

There is plenty of hypotheticals that would explain different parts of the UK going at different speeds and maybe actually some sound reasons as well.

But as I said I don’t see a large divergence as overly likely, but if there is there could be very good reasons for it (there might not be of course but hey forecasting what’s gonna happen in the future is always a mugs game [emoji2957])

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

As I said I don’t see any great divergence happening soon or ever to be honest.

But to some degree, why not?

Could the islands of Scotland come out of lockdown before the big cities? Possibly and maybe probably should.

If Scotland’s cases were super low and TTI up and running and England not would I be expecting some sort of easing in Scotland before England, sure.

There is plenty of hypotheticals that would explain different parts of the UK going at different speeds and maybe actually some sound reasons as well.

But as I said I don’t see a large divergence as overly likely, but if there is there could be very good reasons for it (there might not be of course but hey forecasting what’s gonna happen in the future is always a mugs game [emoji2957])

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I assume that if Scotland has to stay in lockdown longer then the furlough scheme would continue for longer here?


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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

https://twitter.com/cllrscottarthur/...091817985?s=21

It sounds like from this interview that Scotland fully agreed with Westminster.

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What choice do they have? Westminster hold the purse strings. Where would Scotland get the funding to finance extra measures?

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

What choice do they have? Westminster hold the purse strings. Where would Scotland get the funding to finance extra measures?

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Sorry, is this in relation to the clip above which was filmed in March or the choice that they have now?


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Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

I always thought that bats changed their roost at least a few times a year. I think any planning and construction could surely take account of that, rather than further human impact on the natural habitat ffs :greengrin

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They have a hibernation roost and a breeding roost as far as I remember from meetings with the conservationist. To be honest I pretty much tuned out when they were talking as discussions could drag on and didn't really concern me...

We had one particular job which was in the ridiculous situation where they could only get a bat licence for 6 months of the year but during this 6 months they weren't allowed to have any noisy machinery due to nesting sea eagles. I think they worked out they could do 3 months a year of work because of the restrictions. Not surprisingly they decided not to proceed with it.

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

Sorry, is this in relation to the clip above which was filmed in March or the choice that they have now?


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In general. So both.

Interesting stats starting to come out about lockdown. Over 90% of people in office jobs that can transfer to home still working but retail, entertainment, food/drink, construction the opposite. Lots of discussion about firms letting office leases go and moving to wfh to reduce costs now they knownit works. Business recovery units proven to be useless and likely to be dropped.

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Originally Posted by Colr

Interesting stats starting to come out about lockdown. Over 90% of people in office jobs that can transfer to home still working but retail, entertainment, food/drink, construction the opposite. Lots of discussion about firms letting office leases go and moving to wfh to reduce costs now they knownit works. Business recovery units proven to be useless and likely to be dropped.

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The businesses with large office space are already using this as an ideal opportunity to change their model and make everyone WFH.

Some will comment that “it’s just the bankers so who cares”... well the security guards, the canteen ladies, the FM guy, the taxi driver who picks up people from the office, the hotel workers who’s rely on business travel, the baggage handler at the airport, the retail staff at all the airports, the bus driver who’s routes are being cut, the local newsagent who relies on the passing trade, the construction worker who is working on the next big office block and the guy on the builders yard...these are real people living and working in Edinburgh who’s lives are now destined to be much, much worse due to unemployment and with little prospect of finding another job.

The furlough scheme and payment holidays for mortgages have given a false sense of security.


These changes are happening now and there is no going back, the damage has been done and this time it’s going to last a generation.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

I assume that if Scotland has to stay in lockdown longer then the furlough scheme would continue for longer here?


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Well it’s certainly possible to identify people via the Scottish tax code so your assumption may well be correct.

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

The businesses with large office space are already using this as an ideal opportunity to change their model and make everyone WFH.

Some will comment that “it’s just the bankers so who cares”... well the security guards, the canteen ladies, the FM guy, the taxi driver who picks up people from the office, the hotel workers who’s rely on business travel, the baggage handler at the airport, the retail staff at all the airports, the bus driver who’s routes are being cut, the local newsagent who relies on the passing trade, the construction worker who is working on the next big office block and the guy on the builders yard...these are real people living and working in Edinburgh who’s lives are now destined to be much, much worse due to unemployment and with little prospect of finding another job.

The furlough scheme and payment holidays for mortgages have given a false sense of security.


These changes are happening now and there is no going back, the damage has been done and this time it’s going to last a generation.

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If working from home is deemed more efficient then that is a good thing long term.
All those people will be freed up to do more productive work in the economy. Those office blocks can be converted to much needed housing and Builders can be put to work building more housing. Our roads will be less busy, less pollution. Billons of pounds are spent daily just moving people around. That will be money well saved.
More people working from home could be the only big win from this.


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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

The businesses with large office space are already using this as an ideal opportunity to change their model and make everyone WFH.

Some will comment that “it’s just the bankers so who cares”... well the security guards, the canteen ladies, the FM guy, the taxi driver who picks up people from the office, the hotel workers who’s rely on business travel, the baggage handler at the airport, the retail staff at all the airports, the bus driver who’s routes are being cut, the local newsagent who relies on the passing trade, the construction worker who is working on the next big office block and the guy on the builders yard...these are real people living and working in Edinburgh who’s lives are now destined to be much, much worse due to unemployment and with little prospect of finding another job.

The furlough scheme and payment holidays for mortgages have given a false sense of security.


These changes are happening now and there is no going back, the damage has been done and this time it’s going to last a generation.

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Yeah I’m not so sure.

Obviously WFH can and does work. It’s not ideal though and the longer it goes on the harder to stay ‘cohesive’ it gets.

Most companies were already moving away from the ‘desk for everyone’ approach so this will defo drive that further but total remote working all of the time for large financial institutions in Edinburgh, naaa don’t see it happening and don’t think it will.

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

Sorry, is this in relation to the clip above which was filmed in March or the choice that they have now?


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There will be little divergence between the countries in the uk. We see every week when nicola sturgeon announces something, the media start stirring it, unionists start frothing at the mouth and then westminster announces virtually the same and we move on to the next thing.

The facts are Scots chose in 2014 to remain part of the UK and being a region of the UK means we just need to follow suit in these things however much of a **** show it is. The limited devolved powers offer us no real alternative.

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

The businesses with large office space are already using this as an ideal opportunity to change their model and make everyone WFH.

Some will comment that “it’s just the bankers so who cares”... well the security guards, the canteen ladies, the FM guy, the taxi driver who picks up people from the office, the hotel workers who’s rely on business travel, the baggage handler at the airport, the retail staff at all the airports, the bus driver who’s routes are being cut, the local newsagent who relies on the passing trade, the construction worker who is working on the next big office block and the guy on the builders yard...these are real people living and working in Edinburgh who’s lives are now destined to be much, much worse due to unemployment and with little prospect of finding another job.

The furlough scheme and payment holidays for mortgages have given a false sense of security.


These changes are happening now and there is no going back, the damage has been done and this time it’s going to last a generation.

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This is true and one reflect was that all the services that Boris wants to open up in city centres won’t have any business and will go bust.

On the flip side, if services open up in local centres they may have more business and will online. This may exacerbate the social divide. Those with decent sized houses in nice areas will do OK.

Thin evidence but agents are reporting more interest in larger homes with gardens more distant from centres of employment.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

If working from home is deemed more efficient then that is a good thing long term.
All those people will be freed up to do more productive work in the economy. Those office blocks can be converted to much needed housing and Builders can be put to work building more housing. Our roads will be less busy, less pollution. Billons of pounds are spent daily just moving people around. That will be money well saved.
More people working from home could be the only big win from this.


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It very easy to convert offices to housing as planning permission is not required (in England). Most examples to date have been utter crap but there’s an opportunity to do better.

I would live to live in the middle of London but doubt I could ever afford it.

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Yeah I’m not so sure.

Obviously WFH can and does work. It’s not ideal though and the longer it goes on the harder to stay ‘cohesive’ it gets.

Most companies were already moving away from the ‘desk for everyone’ approach so this will defo drive that further but total remote working all of the time for large financial institutions in Edinburgh, naaa don’t see it happening and don’t think it will.

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The CEO and the Head of HR at a well known name in Edinburgh, that employs 1000 at their head office, said exactly that yesterday.

I suspect that there will be small meeting hubs created but the general non operational teams will work from home.

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

The CEO and the Head of HR at a well known name in Edinburgh, that employs 1000 at their head office, said exactly that yesterday.

I suspect that there will be small meeting hubs created but the general non operational teams will work from home.

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I work in a bank and we have been told the same, WFH was always something we were working on for people that want to and this has just escalated it big time, a few directors have said why undo all this work we have already done and if you want to continue working from home once it's over then role dependent you can, would be 3 days at home and 2 in the office

they are also looking at if you have to work in a building you can just go to your local head office and hot desk there instead of having a designated building you work in

It's definitely all change

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

If working from home is deemed more efficient then that is a good thing long term.
All those people will be freed up to do more productive work in the economy. Those office blocks can be converted to much needed housing and Builders can be put to work building more housing. Our roads will be less busy, less pollution. Billons of pounds are spent daily just moving people around. That will be money well saved.
More people working from home could be the only big win from this.


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I do actually agree with you but the approach needed to be phased over a number of years. This has happened in a few weeks and society just isn’t ready for it.

We are standing at the precipice of decisions that will change our life forever. The only solution seems to be “that the entire population must social distance”

No time frame
No alternative
No impact assessment on medium/long term

It is the right thing to do as it’s given us breathing space but it cannot be the solution that’s with us for years to come.

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

The CEO and the Head of HR at a well known name in Edinburgh, that employs 1000 at their head office, said exactly that yesterday.

I suspect that there will be small meeting hubs created but the general non operational teams will work from home.

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Aye well CEO’s say lots of things that never come to pass, think we’ll both know that ;-)

I get the general point though, few large businesses would have thought it possible that their whole organisation could WFH and still function to the extent many have.

The cost savings will also be attractive that’s for sure but again, from my experience, I’m not totally convinced...but as ever time will tell and your comment about long term effects is defo true. As whatever the outcome there will certainly be a long term trend impact on companies being braver on the WFH front.

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Aye well CEO’s say lots of things that never come to pass, think we’ll both know that ;-)

I get the general point though, few large businesses would have thought it possible that their whole organisation could WFH and still function to the extent many have.

The cost savings will also be attractive that’s for sure but again, from my experience, I’m not totally convinced...but as ever time will tell and your comment about long term effects is defo true. As whatever the outcome there will certainly be a long term trend impact on companies being braver on the WFH front.

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Totally agree with that first part :)

Certainly intesteing

We have always had to justify the need to Wfh, now we might have to justify the need to be in office

I would glady take wfh full time



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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...onavirus-will/

Worthy of debate or just a right wing rag stirring trouble?

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...onavirus-will/

Worthy of debate or just a right wing rag stirring trouble?

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I read that as me me me me me

This disease probably won't kill me, seeing as I'm reasonably healthy and mid 30s

I could though easily transmit it to some others who will die, or them pass it to folk who then die

This is much more about the collective than the individual

I certainly don't feel terrorised in the slightest

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...onavirus-will/

Worthy of debate or just a right wing rag stirring trouble?

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Has he said anything noteworthy?

I don't think this virus is going to kill me, and I don't think many people do in all honesty. I genuinely think most people don't think the way he's claiming. I think if we'd been allowed to carry on as normal then some people close to me would have been very badly effected by it though.

It's a dangerous virus, it will and is killing people. But it's much less people than it would have otherwise. I don't think what he's saying is true about how people think.

I did laugh at the whole "2 metres is absolutely ridiculous, it could be 1.5!" as if it makes any difference to every day life other than making supermarket queues appear 25% smaller.

Germany’s new cases have risen for the third day on the bounce

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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...onavirus-will/

Worthy of debate or just a right wing rag stirring trouble?

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I don’t know much about Dingwall but I do agree with his two main arguments.

I think a very large % of the population have been conditioned or have become conditioned to think this is a “killer” and have lost sight of the actual real risk. 199 out of every 200 people who become infected will recover. However I do understand why older, vulnerable and now BAME members of the population would be scared.

Secondly, trusting the British people to do the right thing. He uses the 2m rule to example this but I think it goes wider. There was a slide up yesterday at the UK briefing that said 82% had abided by the rules in the last week. That means 18% haven’t. That represents 13m people.

The govt. have made a mess of a lot of this. But they did set very clear rules on 23rd March. That is 46 days ago. From our total and ongoing cases and death levels it seems clear to me that many people in the UK haven’t followed the rules. Never mind the 2m rule. I suspect millions have continued to meet friends and family throughout.

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Originally Posted by Barney McGrew

Germany’s new cases have risen for the third day on the bounce

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I am sure that will happen everywhere once lockdowns lift, it’s then over to all the measures that various governments put in place to manage and control the virus.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

I did laugh at the whole "2 metres is absolutely ridiculous, it could be 1.5!" as if it makes any difference to every day life other than making supermarket queues appear 25% smaller.

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It does matter when trying to plan what shops, offices, construction sites etc might look like though.

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Originally Posted by Hibby Bairn

It does matter when trying to plan what shops, offices, construction sites etc might look like though.

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Yes, I'd imagine the 2 metre social distancing rule will make a big difference as to whether it is viable for smaller businesses (thinking pubs, restaurants etc) to open further down the line. Hopefully that is something which will be reviewed as restrictions begin to relax.

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Originally Posted by DJ HIBBY

I am sure that will happen everywhere once lockdowns lift, it’s then over to all the measures that various governments put in place to manage and control the virus.

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They also have a very clear trend of declining numbers over a weekend, followed by rising numbers during the week with a very clear pattern of that repeating.

As ever with these types of thing it’s the trends that need to be followed not the individual numbers each day.

If we see a sustained trend back up starting next week then repeating again the week after then that will be a concern for them (and us!) but taking the ‘it’s went up for 3 days’ headlines today as any indicator one way or the other is useless as effectively you could have said that on any Friday for the last month and totally missed the steep trend down.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5b81d3221a.jpg

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Originally Posted by Hibby Bairn

It does matter when trying to plan what shops, offices, construction sites etc might look like though.

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Agreed, but would those decisions be based on that? I thought he was just talking about what's being said to the general public.

I asked about the 2m thing on here before and I think I was told then it was less than that but "rounded up" for simplicity in messaging.

I'd have thought medium-long term plans would use the more accurate science. You could be right though.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

Has he said anything noteworthy?

I don't think this virus is going to kill me, and I don't think many people do in all honesty. I genuinely think most people don't think the way he's claiming. I think if we'd been allowed to carry on as normal then some people close to me would have been very badly effected by it though.

It's a dangerous virus, it will and is killing people. But it's much less people than it would have otherwise. I don't think what he's saying is true about how people think.

I did laugh at the whole "2 metres is absolutely ridiculous, it could be 1.5!" as if it makes any difference to every day life other than making supermarket queues appear 25% smaller.

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When I read the 2m v 1.5m sentence the articles credibility was shot to shreds.

The reason that I did post it was to highlight that’s two eminent scientists/professors in the last 24hrs that have thoughts that are wildly different from what we are being told. What is science, who’s right and does it come down to how good they are at influencing policy rather than getting it right. Very difficult job to predict the unknown and I can understand that they are taking the one with the minimum risk option.

What I do have concerns about is that decisions taken now are policy for years to come. I don’t think will happen but we all need to be mindful.

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Originally Posted by danhibees1875

Agreed, but would those decisions be based on that? I thought he was just talking about what's being said to the general public.

I asked about the 2m thing on here before and I think I was told then it was less than that but "rounded up" for simplicity in messaging.

I'd have thought medium-long term plans would use the more accurate science. You could be right though.

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That’s how I read it and took it to mean during this phase of the lockdown but as others have said it does make a difference going forward for certain businesses.

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Originally Posted by Callum_62

Certainly intesteing

We have always had to justify the need to Wfh, now we might have to justify the need to be in office

I would glady take wfh full time



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Me too. I normally do 3 in, 2 wfh. Would gladly just go remote full time and possibly move to the country somewhere. Lessen the carbon footprint too.

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Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

Me too. I normally do 3 in, 2 wfh. Would gladly just go remote full time and possibly move to the country somewhere. Lessen the carbon footprint too.

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It also opens up a whole new job market..roles in London or even the US are now evidently more accessible for those lucky enough to be able to work remotely.


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Originally Posted by PaulSmith

It also opens up a whole new job market..roles in London or even the US are now evidently more accessible for those lucky enough to be able to work remotely.


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And there’s a huge benefit to companies who wouldn’t have to pay higher London ‘weighted’ wages

I had to take my 11 year old to an ER last night for a non Corona related issue and have never seen the place so empty. I used to deliver patients there at all hours of the day in a previous life and the place was always crammed 24/7, the only movement last night was tumbleweed blowing along the corridor everytime the staff went out for some air. It might only be my subjective opinion but it would appear many people have now reconsidered what constitutes a medical emergency and are overwhelmingly adhering to the new normal.

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Originally Posted by Barney McGrew

And there’s a huge benefit to companies who wouldn’t have to pay higher London ‘weighted’ wages

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There are massive benefits to companies anyway by not having to run huge office blocks. They can have much smaller buildings with lots of meeting rooms for those days when a face to face is needed.
Places like the borders, Fife etc would be a lot more attractive to live in if there is only the occasional trip into Edinburgh for work needed rather than a daily commute.


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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

I had to take my 11 year old to an ER last night for a non Corona related issue and have never seen the place so empty. I used to deliver patients there at all hours of the day in a previous life and the place was always crammed 24/7, the only movement last night was tumbleweed blowing along the corridor everytime the staff went out for some air. It might only be my subjective opinion but it would appear many people have now reconsidered what constitutes a medical emergency and are overwhelmingly adhering to the new normal.

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In my limited visits to A&E it has always seemed full of people who have had a work or sports related injury. Added to this are the alcohol related visits mainly in the evening and at weekends following nights out.

Given most workplaces are closed, no one is playing sport and the pubs are all shut then I’d expect A&E to be quiet.

And I suspect those who would go with fairly minor things will probably decide “it’s not that bad” and certainly not worth “risking getting the virus”.

My Mrs has been told she can WFH until the end of the year at least. There's positives as well as negatives, the positives being:

2 hour commute into and back out of the city is no longer an issue.

She can adapt her working time to her own specific needs.

Because of the first 2 positives she can now work fulltime earning more money.

Money saved on daily work related outgoings are quite substantial.

Less time wasted in endless project meetings.

Better cantine food.

Negatives:

Me, the boy and the dog can be irritatingly disruptive to her work which entails a high level of concentration.

She misses the social aspect of her workplace.

All in all WFH can be a positive and even the negative aspects can be worked on and improved. There will however be many negative knock on effects for other sectors, especially the service and transport ones who will lose a lot of business because of people staying at home. Business may have to find new ways of getting to their customers.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

There are massive benefits to companies anyway by not having to run huge office blocks. They can have much smaller buildings with lots of meeting rooms for those days when a face to face is needed.
Places like the borders, Fife etc would be a lot more attractive to live in if there is only the occasional trip into Edinburgh for work needed rather than a daily commute.


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Whilst there's obvious benefits for big companies there's also added costs for the homeowner/tennant. My son is WFH and my utilities bills are through the roof not to mention the cost of converting a spare room into an office which I accept wasn't a necessity but a cost none the less. He's also eating me out of house and home. I'm actually thinking of billing his company for rental of office space or pursuing HMRC for a tax break on a home office.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

Whilst there's obvious benefits for big companies there's also added costs for the homeowner/tennant. My son is WFH and my utilities bills are through the roof not to mention the cost of converting a spare room into an office which I accept wasn't a necessity but a cost none the less. He's also eating me out of house and home. I'm actually thinking of billing his company for rental of office space or pursuing HMRC for a tax break on a home office.

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Just on this my company is writing a brand new WFH policy and this is expected to include some form of subsidy to create a proper working environment (monitor, desk and chair as an example). There's also the insurance angle as technically now your home is your 'sole place of work' and many household policies might need changing (I'd welcome any advice on this!).

God knows what they expect you to do in a one bedroom flat where there is simply no space to create a proper WFH environment though.

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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

Whilst there's obvious benefits for big companies there's also added costs for the homeowner/tennant. My son is WFH and my utilities bills are through the roof not to mention the cost of converting a spare room into an office which I accept wasn't a necessity but a cost none the less. He's also eating me out of house and home. I'm actually thinking of billing his company for rental of office space or pursuing HMRC for a tax break on a home office.

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Absolutely there will be big changes. I can see a lot of people getting extensions built for home offices, or garden offices. Basically the cost of a workers office is being put on the worker but they are saving on travel time and costs so are probably still ahead.
Of all the things happening during the lockdown, this is the only one I see lasting long term. The rest of society will likely go back to normal but the cost savings on this may prove to tempting for companies.


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Originally Posted by Andy Bee

Whilst there's obvious benefits for big companies there's also added costs for the homeowner/tennant. My son is WFH and my utilities bills are through the roof not to mention the cost of converting a spare room into an office which I accept wasn't a necessity but a cost none the less. He's also eating me out of house and home. I'm actually thinking of billing his company for rental of office space or pursuing HMRC for a tax break on a home office.

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You could always lobby parliament for the same £11,000 MPs received to enable them to work from home. 🤔