Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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31-07-2013, 01:43 PM
robinp

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Don't think so.

The 2012 accounts were published after UBIG withdrew support, no?

I don't know exactly when the support was withdrawn, but they certainly had the assurances in the footnotes previously.
31-07-2013, 01:43 PM
southfieldhibby

Can anyone, for the love of Sauzee, explain that £175Million figure please?

CropleyWasGod, I'm looking at you!
31-07-2013, 01:44 PM
PatHead

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Up until the 2011 (?) accounts, UBIG assured the auditors that they would continue to support Hearts. Depending on the quality of that evidence, the Hearts auditors can rely on that to satisfy themselves that Hearts were a going concern.

From memory, though, there weren't any accounts for UBIG available to back up those assurances, at least not in the public domain. Hearts' auditors may have got their evidence elsewhere,although I'm not sure where.

The problem for me, though, was the 2012 accounts. By that time, UBIG had said that they weren't able to support Hearts, yet the auditors still agreed that they were a going concern.

Hindsight is easy, of course, and I'm not going to be too harsh on them yet. However, the liquidators (perhaps even BDO; not sure if that's in their remit) might have some difficult questions for them, especially on the 2012 accounts.

I think RobinP sort of answered it and you may have previously but my mind can only take in so much..........Should the auditor not have got more from the guarantors other than "its okay we will cover it". In these days of anti-money laundering requirements surely some flags should have been raised. I know we have to prove where money comes from and highlight any suspicions in our part of financial services. If they have just ignored, what were obvious signs, not just with the benefit of hindsight are they likely to get sore gonads?
31-07-2013, 01:45 PM
Crazyhorse

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrdHibby

:greengrin
I went on a beer factory tour in Bruges a few years ago with the missus and was wearing my Hibs top. The lassie taking the Engerlish speakers immediately made a bee-line for me and pointed to the badge and said REBUS. Turned out she loved the novels. It was the Leffe brewery :thumbsup: Ian Rankin should get himself over there for some free beer

P.S when the lassie said Rebus the wife said 'naw hen, ******'

You're thinking of the De Halve Maan brewery (Zot beer). Leffe is brewed in Leuven at Stella Artois. When I lived there I did as many brewery tours as possible... as many times as possible :aok: Anyway pedantic point made back to discussing the charity robbers.
31-07-2013, 01:46 PM
Gus Fring

The Evening News have glossed over this like a set of Tynecastle steps.

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...8-5m-1-3022972

Quote:

HEARTS have debts amounting to £28.5 million, a report by administrators BDO has revealed.The report which has been produced ahead of a meeting of creditors on August 12 lays bare for the first time the extent of the financial crisis at Tynecastle.
It lists 200 creditors in all from Musselburgh Athletic to Liverpool FC.
The document also reveals how sponsors Wonga have ploughed £103,000 into the club since it entered administration, while there has been almost £900,000 in season ticket sales.
BDO insists its preferred option is to rescue Hearts through a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA).

No mention of the charities that have been shafted and no mention of the fact they reported the Wonga figure 10 times higher than it actually was.
31-07-2013, 01:47 PM
Caversham Green

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Up until the 2011 (?) accounts, UBIG assured the auditors that they would continue to support Hearts. Depending on the quality of that evidence, the Hearts auditors can rely on that to satisfy themselves that Hearts were a going concern.

From memory, though, there weren't any accounts for UBIG available to back up those assurances, at least not in the public domain. Hearts' auditors may have got their evidence elsewhere,although I'm not sure where.

The problem for me, though, was the 2012 accounts. By that time, UBIG had said that they weren't able to support Hearts, yet the auditors still agreed that they were a going concern.

Hindsight is easy, of course, and I'm not going to be too harsh on them yet. However, the liquidators (perhaps even BDO; not sure if that's in their remit) might have some difficult questions for them, especially on the 2012 accounts.

Agreed, there wasn't much wrong with the audit reports prior to 2011-12. They said that the club was a going concern as long as UBIG continued to support them, but that they were unable to verify whether UBIG were able to continue that support. That leaves the reader to draw their own conclusions and the auditors couldn't realistically say much else.

The 20112 report said that the going concern depended on player sales and an undefined membership scheme, but it was unqualified. It failed to quantify how much was needed from these sources and gave no details of the membership scheme at all. IMO, it gave the distinct impression that all was barry, but two months later the club was in administration. Under any circumstances administration occurring two months after an unqualified audit report would be embarrassing, given the state HoMFC were in that report beggars belief.

All IMO of course.
31-07-2013, 01:49 PM
jgl07

Quote:

Originally Posted by robinp

I don't know exactly when the support was withdrawn, but they certainly had the assurances in the footnotes previously.

Romanov issued a statement to that effect but partially backed off before the publication of the 2010-11 accounts in 2012.

The footnotes in the auditors report were not to be sen in the last set of accounts presumably because they swallowed the guff about Hearts being 'self-sufficient' and UBIG were in no position to provide support to anyone.
31-07-2013, 01:49 PM
southsider

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

.... damn straight, sister.

Failure to collect fees would have been an instant disciplinary charge! :greengrin

Given that HMRC are due about 1.9 million, the likelyhood of them voting for a CVA is unlikely. Or due to the massive overall debt that is due the creditors is the amount due in tax an irrelivance ?
31-07-2013, 01:49 PM
PatHead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caversham Green

Agreed, there wasn't much wrong with the audit reports prior to 2011-12. They said that the club was a going concern as long as UBIG continued to support them, but that they were unable to verify whether UBIG were able to continue that support. That leaves the reader to draw their own conclusions and the auditors couldn't realistically say much else.

The 20112 report said that the going concern depended on player sales and an undefined membership scheme, but it was unqualified. It failed to quantify how much was needed from these sources and gave no details of the membership scheme at all. IMO, it gave the distinct impression that all was barry, but two months later the club was in administration. Under any circumstances administration occurring two months after an unqualified audit report would be embarrassing, given the state HoMFC were in that report beggars belief.

All IMO of course.

That is what I am trying to get at.....was the report not late as well?
31-07-2013, 01:50 PM
KWJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenginger

I see the Hearts Accountants and their solicitors are only due about £ 100 each.

Made sure they got their money before things went Pop.

Haven't taken their fee yet, being paid by the hour. Up to the time of that document it was at £160,000.

Lady Haig's Poppy Factory nor the McCrae's Battalion Trust are owed money any more, paid for by supporters trusts apparently. Not sure if it was once this document came out or before.

Important one for them to get out the way though huh.
31-07-2013, 01:51 PM
Bishop Hibee

What a taudry, shabby, horrible club they are. Their supporters did NOTHING while the owner ran Hertz into the ground ruining other businesses and shafting the taxman. Edinburgh's shame. Hurry up and die.
31-07-2013, 01:51 PM
GREEN WARLORD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hibs07p

They are also charging for coaching lessons at HWU. Are hearts still getting use of it for free?
GGTTH

They were training here yesterday, however, i doubt it would be free considering they are SELF SUFFICIANT! Don't quote me on that though.
31-07-2013, 01:52 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by southfieldhibby

Can anyone, for the love of Sauzee, explain that £175Million figure please?

CropleyWasGod, I'm looking at you!

It's pretty big, eh no? :greengrin

Haven't looked at the Hearts accounts for a while.... Cav's your man there,.. but for me it's £29m of debt (which is the important part) and £146m of "shareholders funds". That, I think, is the original shareholding plus any swaps etc that have happened since then.

However, it does mean that Planet Lith has, in round terms, invested £175m in Planet Yam.
31-07-2013, 01:53 PM
PatHead

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Wright Jnr

Haven't taken their fee yet, being paid by the hour. Up to the time of that document it was at £160,000.

Lady Haig's Poppy Factory nor the McCrae's Battalion Trust are owed money any more, paid for by supporters trusts apparently. Not sure if it was once this document came out or before.

Important one for them to get out the way though huh.

Hope the supporters trust also pay Red Cross and Big Hearts as well then. Once they have done that they can start on other small creditors. (not being heightist)
31-07-2013, 01:53 PM
jgl07

Quote:

Originally Posted by GREEN WARLORD

They were training here yesterday, however, i doubt it would be free considering they are SELF SUFFICIANT! Don't quote me on that though.

I would guess that Heriot-Watt have had assurances from BDO that they will be paid rent for the time when Hearts are in Admin.
31-07-2013, 01:54 PM
Hibernia&Alba

The tension is becoming unbearable :greengrinhttp://youtu.be/1uvBM_y_mVc
31-07-2013, 01:55 PM
PatHead

Quote:

Originally Posted by GREEN WARLORD

They were training here yesterday, however, i doubt it would be free considering they are SELF SUFFICIANT! Don't quote me on that though.

Anyone can be self sufficient if they don't pay bills:wink:
31-07-2013, 01:56 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by southsider

Given that HMRC are due about 1.9 million, the likelyhood of them voting for a CVA is unlikely. Or due to the massive overall debt that is due the creditors is the amount due in tax an irrelivance ?

BDO say somewhere in their report that there will be nothing for unsecured creditors.

Any CVA, therefore, will be (as in Dunfermline's case) for nil/£. That would be tied up by prior agreement with UKIO and UBIG, and anyone else's vote would be irrelevant.
31-07-2013, 01:58 PM
blackpoolhibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

http://gs.delfi.lt/images/pix/300x18...9_d8a652ca.jpg

This time next year Rodney, we're gonna be Millionaires.
31-07-2013, 01:58 PM
Sergio sledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatHead

Hope the supporters trust also pay Red Cross and Big Hearts as well then. Once they have done that they can start on other small creditors. (not being heightist)

The £48k Hearts received in donations after the administrators were appointed, which is set aside in another account, could surely be used to pay that?
31-07-2013, 02:00 PM
jgl07

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

BDO say somewhere in their report that there will be nothing for unsecured creditors.

Any CVA, therefore, will be (as in Dunfermline's case) for nil/£. That would be tied up by prior agreement with UKIO and UBIG, and anyone else's vote would be irrelevant.

If The Hearts (or other Newco) wish to keep the SFA membership they will presumably have to pay off football related bills. This was the case with The Rangers I believe.
31-07-2013, 02:01 PM
HibeeMassive

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

However, it does mean that Planet Lith has, in round terms, invested £175m in Planet Yam.

When you say invested...... :cb
31-07-2013, 02:01 PM
Eternal Hibbie

This has come as a bit of a shock.

Did they not only owe the money to themselves then ?

:rolleyes:
31-07-2013, 02:02 PM
Just Alf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

Officers & Master Clients (6)•Mikhail Romanov
•Mr. Georgy Branitskiy-Romanov
•Mr. Georgy Branitskiy-Romanov
•Georgiy Branitskiy-Romanov
•Romanov Vladimir
•Mr. Romanov Andrey

http://offshoreleaks.icij.org/search...&ent=on&adr=on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

:faf: He's away with the share money.

Just catching up on this thread... this one I find ....... PLEASING! :na na:
31-07-2013, 02:03 PM
CropleyWasGod

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgl07

If The Hearts (or other Newco) wish to keep the SFA membership they will presumably have to pay off football related bills. This was the case with The Rangers I believe.

Yep. BJ said that the other day.

Presumably, when BDO say "unsecured" creditors, they are looking at that from a legal point of view. They have, though, listed the football creditors, which any bidder will have to know about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HibeeMassive

When you say invested...... :cb

..in a Yamanomic sense of the word.

Invested = "a dark hole, poured down".
31-07-2013, 02:05 PM
clerriehibs

Quote:

Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

It's pretty big, eh no? :greengrin

Haven't looked at the Hearts accounts for a while.... Cav's your man there,.. but for me it's £29m of debt (which is the important part) and £146m of "shareholders funds". That, I think, is the original shareholding plus any swaps etc that have happened since then.

However, it does mean that Planet Lith has, in round terms, invested £175m in Planet Yam.

Given they never won the Championa League even with that amount, it seems safe to assume that homfc have been a happy-clapping money launderette during the romanov era?
31-07-2013, 02:05 PM
southsider

No more bus travel

Just heard that Hertz will no longer be running buses to take players to away games. Like a pub team. What if they canny drive or are just too young to see over the steering wheel. lol
31-07-2013, 02:05 PM
Gingertosser

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Wright Jnr

Lady Haig's Poppy Factory nor the McCrae's Battalion Trust are owed money any more, paid for by supporters trusts apparently

It appears McCrae's Battalion Trust were sufficiently embarrased enough to pay the money owed to Lady Haig's Poppy Factory, nobody has paid any of the money due to MBT.

So, the reallity is, MBT are now even more out of pocket :jamboak:
31-07-2013, 02:11 PM
OrdHibby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse

You're thinking of the De Halve Maan brewery (Zot beer). Leffe is brewed in Leuven at Stella Artois. When I lived there I did as many brewery tours as possible... as many times as possible :aok: Anyway pedantic point made back to discussing the charity robbers.

Wife's just confirmed it. :aok: I think i'll go to bed
31-07-2013, 02:11 PM
PatHead

Seemingly the money owned to Musselburgh Windsor is for Jason Holt. So they also stole their star player (worth £10m allegedly) from a community boys club.

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