Sunak's response to that will likely be another speech about his determination not to be pushed around by foreign courts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
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Sunak's response to that will likely be another speech about his determination not to be pushed around by foreign courts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
As well as totally destroying the al-Shifa hospital in Gaza, Israel flattens the Iranian consulate in Syria.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68708923
Another day, another probable war crime committed by Israel in targeting civilian aid workers.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-68710515
A UK citizen reported among the dead, probably killed by weapons sold by the UK or US.
Charity has paused it's operations so it's a win / win for Israel as it means they can starve the population just that little bit quicker.
More aid agencies pausing or stopping food supplies.
Netanyahu and his fellow crackpots will delighted that their murder of these volunteers has done the job.
Disgusting. Reading Biden is about to agree a £20 billion arms sale to Isreal. It includes fighter jets and attack missles. Why the **** do Israel need fighter jets when they so heavily outgun PalestineQuote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
So that they can attack Syria, Jordan or whoever else they want?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Carry on says Starmer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Thought he wanted a ceasefire. Not really paid attention to what he's been saying recently. Read the UK had sold £42 million in arms to Israel last year and all defensive. They are basically supplied by the US and Germany who both have billions in sales. 60% of weapon last year to Israel were from the US and 39% from Germany. Need to stop these countries to stop Israel, although obviously too late. Although the thousands of missles fired at Israel I'd still give them defensive weapons but no weapons of attackQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
It now being reported as three UK citizens having been killed.
The papers only seem interested when westerners are killedQuote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
Starmer still in favour of supplying them with weapons. And let’s face it, he only whispered for a ceasefire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://www.thenational.scot/news/24...g-arms-israel/
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That's no Starmer, they should ask Starmer today after this though. He has to call for Germany and the US to stop sending non defensive weapons regardless, its a genocide as it has been for decades. I doubt he will though he'll just tow the line with AmericaQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Shameful. I don’t need any more reasons not to vote Labour but if I did this would be itQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
UK citizens being killed and just a shrug of the shoulder from Sunak and Starmer.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
No chance they want to upset their Zionist supporters
I'm sure every paper in the world is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Every country will operate its own “ hierarchy of death” with cooperation from the mediaQuote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Our govt is responsible for our citizens first and foremost. It’s the most important thing they are for. If they are not outraged about another nation killing our citizens then they are failing in their number one duty.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
No argument from me, British citizens are at the top of the hierarchy of death in this country
https://x.com/henryriley1/status/177...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
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https://x.com/alexwickham/status/177...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
No questions allowed.
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That’s democracy for youQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Surely he will have to answer questions in the House of Commons. Oh wait a minute!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Israel seems to be a bit like one of those big mad dogs that some people get and then neglect to discipline or train. The owner deludes themselves that they are in control and then acts all bewildered when their out of control dog goes nuts and attacks someone.
The USA and much of Europe has deluded themselves into believing they can control Israel and that is now being shown to be a myth, Israel is going to continue to do what it wants when it wants and doesn't fear it's supposed masters. I suppose one option that might work would be to stop feeding the dog (by feeding I mean supplying arms not literally trying to starve Israeli citizens) but there is money to be made in war so that is never going to happen.
Maybe Starmer is on annual leave?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Think they said he approved Lamey the shadow foreign secretaries response on the 3rdQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
"@DavidLammy
·
Apr 3
.
@UKLabour
’s message to
@David_Cameron
and
@RishiSunak
’s
@Conservatives
is clear. Publish the legal advice now.
If it says there is a clear risk that UK arms might be used in a serious breach of international humanitarian law, it's time to suspend the sale of those arms"
Don't think they should be waiting on legal advice genocide is clear. Even if it's only defensive weapons ie Air defence that I think we should obviously send, our contribution is so tiny (0.1% of arms last year) that they should just say none at all.
Even if they upset them they should ask Germany and the US to stop supplying the 99% of arms that are definitely offensive and killing Palestinians.
Year to October 2023 trade between the UK and Israel was £6.4 billion, not a huge amount but is it worth considering a total ban on trade with Israel until they withdraw troops from gaza and Ceasefire is established? Something for the UN to consider?
We can’t even agree to stop arming them. Isreal should have been sanctioned years ago the same way South Africa was. And we should be boycotting Israeli companies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
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If you think it's difficult to get the media or politicians in the UK to criticise Israel's actions, you should watch the German news.
They supply nearly 40% of all Israel's offensive weapons, being used to murder innocent civilians and anybody else that takes their fancy, and almost complete silence.
As someone that loves Germany, and normally stands up for them at every opportunity, I find this deeply disturbing.
There's a big furore around Owen Jones saying German guilt about the holocaust is enabling a current day genocide but I understand. Germans are probably my favourite people and the way they deal with the holocaust is fantastic, face on. In every cities there are memorials and a world away from our chest beating spitfire pish.
Olaf Scholz said defending Israel is Germanys
raison d'etre I understand that. Israel has to be able to defend itself or it will get wiped out Germany could make that it's mission. Israel has went beyond that for 50 years its not a plucky Ukraine fighting for its life its on the offensive committed to genocide of a smaller partner. As we've seen with the US only giving Ukraine a tiny and very specific arsenal of weapons that can't hit Russia, the same must be done to Israel. Germany the US and the UK can't give weapons that are being used with no thought of consequence. I also agree with no trade with Israel or allowing them into international events and community. They had the right to destroy Hamas even though they have created the animal through genocide, they didn't have the right to destroy Gaza and its children.
Israel defence minister speaking to soldiers says "Talks towards a deal for a temporary ceasefire continue in Egypt via Egyptian and Qatari mediators.
"There will be difficult decisions and we will be ready to pay the price in order to get the hostages back, and then return to fighting,” Gallant said"
Yep, that sounds reasonable. You give us all the hostages and then we come back and flatten / kill everything and everyone. What's not to like.
The images of destruction from Khan Younis is similar to the scorched earth policy employed by Russia in Grozny or the SS at their peak.
And all the while our government still continues to allow arms from this country to end up in Israel. The amount of blood on their hands is overwhelmingQuote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
A court has ruled that anti Zionism does not equate to antisemitism. No doubt this will upset many who cry antisemitism at the merest hint of protest against Zionism
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...ists-in-the-uk
Germany is putting its case against its part in genocide by Israel at the International Court of Justice. It is maintaining that the fight is not against civilians in Gaza. With over 30000 dead that doesn’t stack up to anything but slaughter of innocents. That’s before you take other things into account.
Biden cuts trip to Delaware short as it looks like Iran is going to strike Israel. They have got what they wanted in funding the Hamas attack in October. The poor people of Palestine were the cost thanks to the genocidal Israeli government.
I wouldn't mind if they were striking military equipment but hopefully no Israeli civilians suffer
If no one supplies Israel with weapons, do you think Iran will stop sending weapons to its proxies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
US officials say Iran has launched dozens of drones that are now flying over Iraq towards Israel
Quite alot happening. Iranian state tv confirms the drones and videos of Shahed drones are online flying in Iraq. They also say the Houthis have launched drones from the south.
Israeli official tells the axios news agency they are seeing over 100 drones coming towards them and they will take a few hours.
Jordanian government says it will strike down any drones heading to Israel, if they come into their airspace
So a very successful mission jointly from Israeli, US, Saudi, UK and Jordanian airforces. Almost all missles and drones shot down in Jordan with none hitting Israel. If f35s were given to Ukraine instead of appeasement there would be thousands less dead it seems. 7 cruise missles hit targets outside Israel but everything else shot down from a massive attempt. Will need to see if there will be retaliation, I'm fearful there will be. If only Palestine had defenses
185/185 or (100%) of UAV's intercepted.
103/110 or (93.6%) of Surface to Surface Missiles intercepted.
36/36 or (100%) of Cruise Missiles intercepted
Where are you getting those numbers from?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Oren Liebermann on CNN quoting US officials, nor sure the accuracy. He says US forces say they confirmed they shot over 70 drones and 3 balistic missles over Jordan. UK, Saudi,Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
Jordanian and Israeli take downs too, dozens of videos of iron dome air defenses working all night. IDF tweeted they shot down 99% of hundreds of drones but no exact figures.
NY Times saying Israel quoting them the same figures 331Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/04/13/world/israel-iran-gaza-war-news
Thanks for your responses. I was watching it unfold online last night….there seemed to be footage of quite a lot of hits, but it was on X so I was taking it with a bag of salt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Yeah I saw pictures of a fire in Tehran, the pictures were confirmed from 2021. Think a lot of accounts just want to be first with news before checking it elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
One missle did hit Jordan after being shot down and another in Iraq that I've seen videos of. Loads of explosions in the sky from air defenses too.
NBC are saying that Biden wants Israel to take this as a win and not retaliate rashly, says US has confirmed it won't take part in offensive strikes on Iran. Think Netanyahu will appease the right wing and attack though
My question is, why is the UK defending Israel? should we get drawn into a middle east conflict? Why did we not do that to protect the people of gaza?
Of course UK should defend Israel so is Muslim countries like SA and Jordan. We should defend other countries we don't too but that is separate Ukraine, Palestine, Syria. The reason why, is Iran would raise Israel to the ground just like the evil Israeli government are doing in Palestine. Germany and the US should stop giving Israel offensive weapons as they are genocidal but the UK should still send defensive weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Institute for the study of war says almost 9000 rockets have been fired at Israel since October 7th mostly unguided bombs, IDF says over 12k. Only a warped person would want the hundreds of thousands of deaths that could cause without defences
Funnily enough it’s more like the other way round. Britain’s Sky Sabre system is based on Iron Dome and delivered by Israeli defence company Rafael. They also produce a number of counter drone technologies for the global market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://des.mod.uk/des-sky-sabre-bri...y-air-defence/
I guess it’s one of the reasons we don’t stop trading with Isreal.
J
It wasn't air defenses most were downed by jets, it was the RAF that shot the missles down using fighter jets this time supposedly 30 missles, along with France, US, Jordan and Saudi. We sent air to air defenses previously although the number is tiny, it's basically Germany and the US that arms Israel. This is what the RAF should be used for in joint efforts. That's separate from the fact we are not interested when it's Iranian drones hitting Ukraine or Israeli missles hitting PalestineQuote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
We just spent 500 million on missle defense systems from America. 2 years ago I'd say it was a disgusting waste of money, I'd be wrong. These drones will get cheaper and fly further every year
My exact thought though appreciate may not be aware of full context of attackQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
That would require troops on the ground. Are you suggesting we have British soldiers taking on Israeli forces alongside Hamas? And how would that help the innocent civilians caught up in this tragedy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
No, I’m just saying we buy a lot of military “stuff” from the Israelis too. Not just one way. I doubt the U.K. would want to risk our new air defence system by cutting off Israeli support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
J
Did Iran know their attack would be so easily foiled? You'd have to expect they must have, they have been in a proxy war with Israel for years so will be more than aware what they are up against.
A bit of sabre rattling trying to provoke a response to the response?
The issue now seems to be that neither side can really back down without losing face. With egomaniacs and extremists running the show in both countries it's exceptionally volatile.
Uk doesn't need Israeli equipment we could switch to S Korean, US Turkish ect and we've got nato. I don't think that's why we helped. It's the similar broad coalition that has been striking Iranian proxies for months just a continuation of what we've been doing. It shouldn't be a surprise we helped it's why we can't shoot cruise missles going to Ukraine or when Russia flattened Aleppo with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Not at all. My thoughts are why the RAF are involved in shooting down drones and missiles fired from one foreign country into another, when it chooses not to do the same with missiles and drones to and from Israel and Palestine, or Russia and Ukraine?? It just seems to be very selective.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
It’s not that hard if you move beyond the luxury of adopting a simple black or white viewpoint from our place of safety hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Every military action has risks and consequences, it’s worthwhile pausing and thinking about what they may be and whether that action would be seen as defensive or offensive.
Wouldn't be able to shoot them down going to Palestine as they are completely different weapons. They are short distance across the border shot from jets and mlrs. The cruise missles Iran shot took 20 minutes to travel and the drones about 8 hours. As for Ukraine appeasement just like every other decision same for SyriaQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
I wonder if our trade with Israel compared to our trade with Iran may have some bearing?
Iran could have struck in a number of ways. The fact they chose something so easily repelled, and that is was so clearly coming makes me wonder if they actually want all out war. They also made statements saying they consider the matter closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Imo for domestic reasons they had to take some action after the Israeli consulate bombing. If not they would look weak and it would potentially endanger the regime.
So they've taken action but I suspect they now would be quite happy to go back to the proxy war that's been playing out for years.
Our trade with Russia dwarfed our trade with Israel and Ukraine so I don't think that stacks upQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
The UN should have taken action against Israel. Surely you can't go bombing diplomatic missions of your enemies in foreign countries without consequences, no matter who you might think is in the building. That act of aggression alone makes Israel no better than other terrorist states.Quote:
Originally Posted by neil7908
From what I've read from commentators in the area this wasn't the usual token drone strike to signal it was an unprecedented attack. When Qassem Soleimani was assassinated the fired 15 missles at US bases, when they did a retaliation attack on Saudi in 2019s aramco attack it was 25 drones and missiles, they fired over 300 at Israel including 120 ballistic missles without warning and 20 minutes to impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
They tried to overwhelm Israels air defenses. When their drones strike Ukraine they usually get 10% through so would have hoped for some hits. I think they were surprised at the fact Saudi and Jordanian jets were hitting before they even got to Israel and allowing us jets into their airspace.
I agree with alot of this analysis. Israels air defenses couldn't cope on its own against hezbollah and Iranian strikes of hundreds of drones and rockets. Also on the power of having nuclear weapons. If you get appeasement and support if you have them, more and more nations are going to try and get them
https://twitter.com/FRHoffmann1/status/1779439439204565373
Saudi Arabian Royal family spokesman says to the state broadcaster than Iran has engineered the war in gaza to push the ending of growing normalisation of relations from Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and Israel. They are probably right there is no other reason Hamas would have carried out the suicidal slaughter in October. Israel is just doing as its always done utter genocide. Everyone let Iran fund proxies whilst turning a blind eye and crossing their fingers
https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...n-with-israel/
The reality is that all Iran can do is use proxies. They have been sanctioned since 1979. Their air force and Navy would be annihilated by any one of their neighbours. It is in worse condition than the Russians. Their drones are pretty easily stopped given their 8 hour fly time. They have a large standing army but that’s mostly needed to keep the regime in power domestically. And they don’t share a border with Isreal. They have no other way of attacking Isreal than what they just tried and it was easily dealt with. The fact is that Iran has no way of escalating from here other than closing the straight of Hormuz. In any war, Iran will lose and lose quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The UN Security Council contains us, America, China and Russia as permanent members. Every move either direction gets vetoed and blocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
J
state TV in Iran were showing a clip of a huge fire in Israel they said that had been hit by a missile
it was actually a video clip of a fire in Chile in February
Sure it wasn't Niddrie?Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
I agree completely. The Iranian regime are horrendous but one of the few accepted international norms amongst good good actors is that consulates are untouchable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
It's usually militia, rouge states and terrorists that carry out attacks like that.
It was so obviously an attempt by the Israeli's to provoke Iran, distract from Gaza and get the West back on side. And sadly it's worked.
Great article on how misinformation is spread online.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-...bing/103708210
Apologies, wrong thread.
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That's mad and must have been horrifying for Cohen. You can expect that from the troll accounts but utterly shocking for 7 news to do that. JHB just shows herself up as expectedQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
France?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Not just JHB too, Rachel Riley seems to have become utter nutjob too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
She is just a vile woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lendo
Not sure what their veto record has been.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
J
I know it’s Wikipedia but…………Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...il_resolutions
https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
The thinking of the Isreali govt. The think of the Palestinians as sub-human.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
They think and treat them as sub humans and the west lets them. Western governments are complicit in the genocide of the Palestinian people. Shameful and unforgivable.
Impossible to argue with this conclusion. Can remember when think it was ironically under Blair talk about an ethical foreign policy. Don’t hear much chat of that now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/...za-mass-graves
More war crimes being commited by the west’s friends. Perhaps time to start helping the Palestinians fight this evil regime?
BREAKING: Tamir Morag of Channel 14 reports that the Israeli government has received word that the top echelon of the Israeli government and IDF will receive idictments from the ICC within the next week or so.
The individuals to be indicated include Netanyahu, Gallant, and Halevi. But the list will not stop there. They will likely be charged with crimes against humanity.
Despite his bravado about the ICC, I am hearing from sources that Netanyahu is very nervous about the high likelihood that they will issue arrest warrants. At this point, it appears that that is inevitable.
While the ICC cannot arrest anyone, all court members are obligated to hand over individuals with warrants against them. So if served, that could stop anyone served from going to 124 countries. Basically, all important nations on earth aside from the United States, China, India, and a few Arab states (and Israel, of course).
Most importantly, it would be a nightmare for Israel's international image. Russia and Sudan have had warrants issued for their leaders. But no Western democracy ever has. This is yet another piece of diplomatic fallout from the war. The clock the international community set for this conflict long expired.
Now, Israel finds itself fighting in the ICJ and soon the ICC. This will embroil Israel in a multi-year legal and diplomatic nightmare. Netanyahu is reportedly very concerned about this and thinks he can avoid some of these warrants by delaying an invasion of Rafah even further. That seems to be the main consideration right now—stopping an operation—far more than the US or Egypt.
Some good news on the Israeli/ Gaza front at last, although it will likely drag in for years until it reaches a conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
https://x.com/beckettunite/status/17...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
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Interesting article looking at the possible scenarios of Hamas post this current war. There are rumours of a Qatari, Saudi, US peaceforce going in when Israel go out, although I'm unsure how likely that is
If Ali Khamanei and Netanyahu were blootered that would help
https://en.majalla.com/node/316201/o...past-parallels
Our government and biggest opposition party are genocide apologists and have the blood of thousands on their hands. And they will be asking the public to vote for them in a few months. A very sad state of affairs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://x.com/jonathan_k_cook/status...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
Well done Trinity.[emoji122]
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What have they done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Forced a peaceful change in policy from their university.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
Trinity College, Dublin, agrees to pulls its investments from companies helping Israel brutalise the Palestinian people. Students respond by packing up their encampment.
A college statement reads: 'We are in solidarity with the students in our horror of what is happening in Gaza.'
Does that mean sending in riot police to beat up and arrest the protesters isn't the only available option? What a strange thought.
J
Thanks for that, and definitely good to see happening :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
Hopefully it will be repeated in universities across the UK but I won’t hold my breath. Protestors are more likely to be arrested on a crime of anti semitismQuote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
What is ICC?Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Are all the people protesting the war in Isreal anti-semites as well?[emoji2369]Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
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Are all the people protesting the war in Isreal anti-semites as well?[emoji2369]Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think the derogatory phrase used in their case is 'Self Hating Jews'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Those protesting against the war in the UK aren’t so there’s no reason why they should be. Others may see it differently
I’d have money on Israel winning the Eurovision tonight. Seems to be a lot of people who wouldn’t normally vote, downloading the app and sharing it.
They may come last or they may win, will be interesting to gauge opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
There's some very strange voting patterns happening, particularly in Italy.
I think it's going to be interesting to find out what really happened with the Dutch Eurovision contestant, who was thrown out for alleged 'inappropriate behavior'.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3ggpe3qj6wo
--------------------------------Quote:
ICC prosecutor seeks arrest of Israeli and Hamas leaders
Biden calls ICC decision 'outrageous'
We're now hearing from US President Joe Biden, who calls the International Criminal Court (ICC) chief prosecutor's application for arrest warrants against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defence Minister Yoav Gallant "outrageous".
Here's Biden's statement in full:
The ICC prosecutor’s application for arrest warrants against Israeli leaders is outrageous.
And let me be clear: whatever this prosecutor might imply, there is no equivalence — none — between Israel and Hamas.
We will always stand with Israel against threats to its security."
--------------------------------
UK govt opposes ICC seeking arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu & Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant.
FCDO: “We don't believe that seeking warrants will help get hostages out, get aid in, or deliver a sustainable ceasefire. This remains the UK’s priority.”
Scenes out of Rafah are horrendous Netanyahu should be in the Hague for decades of war crimes
Biden has went very quiet on his rafah stance. Or has he just forgotten he ever had oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Starmer will be chuffed. Almost as good as starving them or cutting their water supply.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjjj26d0eqxo
Ach, just a wee mistake.