Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
Probably was the plan from the start
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
Probably was the plan from the start
Have the fraud squad knocked down the front door of RFC yet.
And i bet a lot of these folk mentioned in that programme are all out the country by now. :cb
I tend to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney McGrew
It was probably only a matter of time before a member of the ESTABLISHMENT got rummbled for something crooked in this, get rid of them and the SFA. The SFA must be losing further credability in this. Scotland for change :agree:
And he is guilty of the same at Heart Of Midlothian. :agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney McGrew
Most,if not all the Liths are on double contracts.
Just wait and see,once Rangers are well out the road,HMRC have a list of clubs,and HOMFC are 1.
Does anyone know if this affects their invite to the Premiership?!
If someone presented this narrative as a TV/Film drama, it'd get laughed out for its lack of feasibility. :lolrangers:
Prince Albert of Monaco (and his PA looking bewildered when asked about Berts secret financing of Rangers), wee Sammy of Govan, Sir Davie doing a ****gy, and advice to the administrators re the conflict of interests - "Maybe Duff and Phelps should sue themselves" :hilarious
Arguably the best documentary on TV this year.
Did anything come out about phone tapping?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...-west-18148818
That is a great list :greengrin
Some on there got a loan equivelant to £30,000 per game played :faf:
After an enjoyable hour sped past watching that...surely a series must be possible with the speed of :******:at the moment...would make the football free summer better and go well with our thread :greengrin
strangely enough he called from an unknown number, however he has my mobile so i'm sure he will call me to tell me I was right:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenPJ
That will be next weeks as they listen in on all the calls tonight
Na but theres certainly been some ASS tapping going onQuote:
Originally Posted by GreenPJ
I just had a quick look on rangersmedia as can't get the programme in cork...apparently nothing new and nothing to worry about
exactly, why would you apply for a loan, that doesn't need to be repaid, and only apply for 30k, surely you would want at least a million:cbQuote:
Originally Posted by Beefster
Clever lad. Follow the money....:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by semaj64
Chick Dung was spinning the line a few months back, when it was revealed that Ogilvie had received EBT payments, that Ogilvie's payments would only pay for a "good night out". Well, either Campbell was telling him porkies, or Chick's idea of a night out is slightly different from most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney McGrew
Just checked a Hun forum for a chuckle and the consensus is
who is Sammy I've never seen him at Ibrox
BBC have no evidence its a sham
Sammy deserves a kicking
Graham Spiers new name is Britney( which did actually make me laugh)
If there was that much evidence we would have a ruling by now
Sammy is like an only excuse character(don't think they get irony)
the BBC is run by taigs
Sammy is a Celtic plant
don't think they like poor old Sammy much Haha
Bollocks. That's unfair. By the way BHFL, can I ask you for loan of 100k? I don't know if you do loans, or even if you exist but I just thought I would completely randomly ask you for a loan that I'm hoping you might say yes to on the basis of my never having to repay it. That ok for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
no worries I'll just borrow it from another BHFL scheme anyways so it's all coolQuote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
Other than the complicity of Duff and Phelps in the administration and takeover, it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know.
Perhaps the extent of the EBT scheme (which is staggering) but when one of the recipients is the president of the SFA, do you really see any damning outcomes from their investigation?
Self preservation has always been the order of the day with the SPL and undoubtedly, they'll sweep most of this under the Hampden turf.
What happens on a legal front is another matter - I would fully expect that Duff and Phelps need to come out and quickly make a statement in response to all of this or they'll swiftly be removed and proceedings perhaps started against them.
What they say may not even have a bearing actually - I'd expect they simply MUST be taken out of the process and investigated.
Doubt it - Probably the same scenario as Duff and Duffer suing themselves, IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
one for CWG or caversham i suspect, but who can remove an administrator, the courts?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Story So Far...
Who would then investigate them, the police?
Statement quickly released from Duff and Phelps, ignoring all accusations leveled at them:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Story So Far...
Quote:
Paul Clark, joint administrator, said: "The use of EBTs at Rangers goes back many years and was a matter of public record in the annual accounts. Our primary focus has been ensuring the survival of Rangers Football Club and attracting a new buyer for the business as well as investigating the financial situation at the Club since the takeover in May 2011. We and the Club will continue to give every assistance to the football authorities on issues affecting the Club. It should, however, be noted that the First Tier Tax tribunal has yet to publish its findings in relation to the use of EBTs."
I don't know anything about that. I don't know where your money comes from. I don't care where your money comes from. I just take it and spend it and never pay it back. To me you are a giant fruit machine that pays out the jackpot every time I play it. And I don't even have to put any coins into it. You're such a good fruit machine that you pay out to all my mates on every play too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
that statement completely ignores there knowledge of the ticketus deal during the buyoutQuote:
Originally Posted by The Story So Far...
Yep. The dog that is spectacularly not barking right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
The Court can remove an Administrator, but I think there would have to be a petition from some other interested party, eg a creditor.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
As for investigation, unless there was a suggestion of fraud, the only one I could see would be one by D & P's professional body for the alleged conflict of interest.
A side note.... it rips my knitting that people constantly refer to , in this case the forensic accountant, the Institute of Chartered Accountants.There ain't no such beast. There is the ICA of Scotland, the ICA of Ireland, and the ICA in England and Wales. Rant done.
If the courts can appoint the administrator, I'm pretty sure they would have recourse to remove an administrator, particularly if the major creditor appealed in light of what we've seen tonight. Clearly with conflicting interests such as those highlight suggest they aren't fit for purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
I dare say legal investigation is one route open - there'll undoubtedly be a regulatory body for accountants who could probably also investigate them (maybe even the FSA, but I don't know if that extends beyond the banking industry) but I agree, probably one of the more knowledgeable chaps to answer.
Or CIMA, or ACCA...Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Do HMRC really just sit on the sidelines with D&P still in place given the clear conflict of interest revealed tonight? Surely they must petition?
Are the regulatory differences between the ICA of Scotland/England and Wales likely to be substantially different to permit the type of behaviour we've seen from this evening though?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I'd imagine the "fit and proper" test would be transferable across all UK/Irish accountancy firms, within the structure of British finance law?
Is it a Golden Receiver?Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
It's only an allegation at the moment. The BBC have been wrong before.Quote:
Originally Posted by One Day Soon
I suspect that HMRC will want to consider their position carefully, and get as much of the "evidence" that the BBC seem to have, before thy hit the Court.
D&P could, of course, resign.
Sadly i think they are almost right....That will not change a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalianwanda
They will be exactly the same. My point was one of pedantry, that the forensic chap was introduced as a member of a body that doesn't freaking exist.... :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by The Story So Far...
Heh heh. I think we all know that when people talk about THE Institute of Chartered Accountants, they are referring to ICAEW. :stirrer:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I'm guessing the likelihood of HMRC petitioning the Court of Session to have their own admins appointed, as per the original intention will become increasingly likely now?
A buyer in place and CVA agreed by 6th June, and a newco formed in time for next season are looking like utter fantasy now.
Looking at that bottle of single malt on the sideboard I'm saving for liquidation day. Shouldn't be long now till I get to open it.
Alex Rae £569,000??? The boy done well :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by down-the-slope
It did, however, provide evidence of what we all thought.
A wee bit surprised to see George Adams on that list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Story So Far...
F R O :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
There is a senior employee at ICAS, part of whose job it is to come down heavily on anybody who follows the branding of ICAEW as THE ICA.
:nerd:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yeah, but I can assure you that the guys at D&P won't be members of ICAS. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Interesting to note that there is also evidence that Celtic used an EBT which they did not declare to the SPL to aid in the payment of Juninho when he was with the club - granted, the amount is paltry by comparison to Rangers but nonetheless, they're clearly not alone in using the system and failing to declare:
Quote:
Celtic confirmed that it established one EBT scheme in April 2005, which BBC Scotland understands was for the benefit of the Brazilian midfielder Juninho Paulista. The scheme was worth £765,000 but the club did not declare the trust payment to the Scottish Football Association or the Scottish Premier League.
Didn't HMRC originally apply to have an administrator appointed and Whyte furiously argued for D&P in the court? My guess is that a great deal of the EBT content has been leaked from within HMRC and that this may actually be a prelude for HMRC, as the major creditor, to go back to the court, have D&P kicked out and then have their own administrators appointed leading to eventual liquidation. What is now obvious is the inadequacy of the SPL's rules and Doncaster's disingenuous attempts to justify the newco route without penalties. I doubt when the rules were first drawn up that anyone thought that 'we are the people' would embark upon a cheating and alleged criminal route. Close them down and expel them which we were told last week after the appeal was an option available to the committee originally appointed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
I thought there were going to be allegations of phone hacking in this programme.
Called Rusty!Quote:
Originally Posted by snooky
Surely this is where the HMRC come into their own, considering they tried an 11th hour injunction to get a different administrator appointed prior to Whyte appointing Duff & Phelps.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Who is sitting on the forthcoming creditors panel? The ones who have to agree any pence to the pound settlement?
Is there even a definitive creditors list?
Highlights...(or lowlights if a Rangers Fan)
David Murrays wealth put into Rangers was in fact circular bank loans via his companies
There were 111 (yes thats ONE HUNDRED & ELEVEN) induvudual EBT's within the main Trust and Beeb claim to have side letters (proving it was contractural) in a good number of these
President of SFA was an EBT beneficiary while at Rangers
At least one (Souness) receiving EBT payments after leaving (that just happen to co-incide with Tugay going from Gers to his new club)
Partner of Duff & Phelps (David Grier)appears to have lied about knowing of Ticketas Deal to Fund Whytes Take over
Forensic accountant reckons if true the Administartors are guilty of the worst case of conflict of interest he has seen
The letter from David Grier to Rangers confirming funds for take over were in place..was recycled info from a company Whyte owned (and is now bust)...and no one checked this.
The guy negotiating for SDM to find new buyer believed Whyte wehen he told him Prince Albert of Monaco was investing in Whytes take over...:not worth
etc etc
Good point - so did I. Maybe the BBC is keeping that for the sequel :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
So are the BBC still regarded as being pro Rangers?
If the SPL/SFA find them guilty of double contracts, which I believe they will, then surely them being expelled is the only course of action they can make?Quote:
Originally Posted by camhibby1
According to the rule book, that is probably the case. However, as we know, the rulebook is never taken into account when dealing with the OF.Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonHFC
Well I'd imagine they'll have one less rangers pundit after billy 'my wages were paid normally' Dodds resigns his jobQuote:
Originally Posted by McS****y
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/footba...rticle/2786614
http://www.rangers.co.uk/news/footba...rticle/2786598
Who's tellin the fibs then? I feel asleep reading them!
2 March Billy Dodds stated categorically on BBC Sportsound he 'did not have an EBT'Quote:
Originally Posted by forthhibby
Yet that list states he recieved 190,000 ?
Also Campbell Ogilvie 95,000.
Time for Ogilvie to stand down.
Scottish football is rotten to the core,and its just jobs for the boys.
Newsnight Scotland on Beeb 2 .... Paul Murray apparently a guest....
Missed the prog so haven't watched it yet[sky+]. Father of ex assistant manager Derek Adams?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
Don't suppose any referees appeared on the list or "Super ar*ehole"?
Cracks appearing? what other clubs are currently bricking it?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Story So Far...
Bob Malcolm had an EBT ..... perhaps someone can ask him to explain how that worked then.
"Err err err dunno like" :confused:
If Big Tax Case goes against RFC then surely what they have done is tantamount to match fixing by playing players they otherwise couldn't have afforded.
No mate, this changes everything. That programme will have been in production for months and the BBC's lawyers will have been all over it. So what we got tonight is only the material they can 100% go public with.Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
They have evidence that Papac was on a double contract:so every game the Huns played last season (save for any when Papac wasn't in the squad) they lost 0-3. Slimecaster can equivocate all he likes but EUFA will call the shots now: this isn't some dodgy blog, it's the BBC. So, yay - we finished 10 last season and all that worry about relegation was a waste of time! And the Huns will be stripped of the hounours that we, the honest taxpayers, kindly bought for them in the 3 preceding seasons.
Never been a great fan of the BBC before, but I am proud of them tonight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser1962
Fixed that for you. :greengrin
Now THAT would have been a surprise!!
By the way....I have a new favourite moment in this whole debacle.
Cue Paul Baxendale-Walker......"Porn doesn't make you blind, running EBT's badly does"
Side splitting, pant wettingly funny.
I am not disagreeing with you at all, it still wont change anything though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
They will be licensed Insolvency Practitioners - but certain to be struck off now!Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Unfortunately, those sanctions would apply to Rangers ... not newco Rangers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
Er, you said it would't change anything, I said it changes everything, you say you're not disagreeing with me but it still won't chane anything??? Maybe you should apply to join Duff + Phelps...Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
...only if the allegations are proved correct. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
My apologies, allow me to be clearer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
I agree with everything you said which should happen however this program is going to change nothing, as much as we all want them to suffer properly it wont happen.
But the newco inherits the oldco's history: which will be minus the honours they "won" during the cheating years.Quote:
Originally Posted by clerriehibs
People said that about the first documentary. It directly led to the SFA investigation, which resulted in the 12 month transfer embargo.Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
Smile Nid, you're on Candid Camera. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by H18sry
I don't think it does; it's a completely blank sheet, regardless of honest practise or cheating. And whatever the newco's history is or isn't, the Rangers fans will count whatever has gone before as their history, whatever anyone else, including the law, says. But Doncaster and the other SPL members who have no conscience won't bother about that, they just want Rangers in whatever form in the SPL.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
OK, if I understand correctly, you are saying that the SPL and the SFL won't let it happen? I agree that those self-serving cowards would love to, and have tried their best, but my point is that it is out of their hands, now. The BBC, this nation's public service broadcaster, have pinned their colours to the mast: the sporting integrity mast. Which changes everything. To the extent that Sky/ESPN, sponsors etc will now have to change their tune and support sporting integrity as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
Umm, Sky - Murdoch - News International - integrity??? Where've you been for the past few months?Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
None of them will support an SPL without an Old Firm. So, plus ca change.
Edit; them being Sky/ESPN, sponsors ...
I hope you are right with that and i would like to see nothing more than RFC getting their comeuppance. But yes the cynic in me thinks that despite the programme tonight we will still have donkeys like Doncaster coming out and defending them and doing everything in their power to preserve their status.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehf
If anyone at the SFA or SPL brushes tonight's revelations under the carpet and continue to spout more rubbish about how Scottish football needs Rangers then the organisations that run our game are just as corrupt as the shower of cheating bassas that were shamed in tonight's programme.Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
If tonight's documentary and it's allegations make no significant change to the current administration setup at RFC then I'll be totally and utterly shocked. The conflict of interest is so blatantly obvious I see no other outcome but the removal of D&P.
I also can't see how this can't affect the current proposal to buy RFC. The whole deal was agreed with D&P therefore would a new administration team not have to renegotiate? Also, RFC don't have time on their side. Tonight's findings might just blow a huge hole in their bid to remain as a club under the current corporate structure.
Interesting days ahead I think.
I'm seriously considering paying my license fee!
Anyone know when its on the iplayer? Missed it. judging by the comments its a must see!
That's exactly the point! A year ago they wouldn't have cared about integrity, but now they have to be seen to do the right thing. At this point in time, reputation means far more than revenue: it's a golden opportunity for them to say "we're supporting Scottish football and sprting integrity, etc, etc".Quote:
Originally Posted by clerriehibs
D+P's pathetic attempt at defending their position is that they were vaguely aware of Ticketus being involved, but only as a source of short-term working capital. As anyone involved in M+A work will know, that is complete b ollocks. It is inconceivable that Grier did not know how his client (Whyte) was funding the acquisition,Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzzle
Would expect HMRC to petition CoS tomorrow to get D&P removed as administrators, given the evidence of conflict of interest is now in the public domain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzzle
Just back in from Gary Numan in Glasgow (yes, I know) and looking for a link to this.Quote:
Originally Posted by brythehibby
Can anyone help me and Bry?
It's no up yet, it's listed as coming soonQuote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...d_the_Jerseys/
They always take forever to put up Scottish stuff, well, forever compared to stuff like Top Gear anyway, which pops up on iPlayer minutes after the show ends...
Cheers. If you see a link elsewhere, please let me know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Desperate Dan
p.s. Brian from Doha says you look like Desperate Dan.
:greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
From swallowswallow:
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3wA9hzGQGs&sns=em
Part - 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy0ZEBiShRA&sns=em
Part - 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKQtYiC9rG8&sns=em
Part - 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYOuKPwe-ow&sns=em
Gary Numan ? Think your already beyond help tbh. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
Ta for the links! Whoever recorded this.. ASPECT RATIO WTFQuote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
I did put a caveat in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by crewetollhibee
Each to their own - I was too young to see him when he was in his pomp...
:aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by magpie1892
I think the moral justification for the SPL allowing newco Rangers back into the SPL is waning fast. This whole saga is being shown to be a mess of mammoth proportions. The previous viewpoint which Doncaster and his SPL chums were banking on was along the lines that Rangers were the victims of one man, Mr Whyte, and therefore the Club were not totally culpable. Tonight's BBC allegations shift most of that blame onto David Murray and question the role of the administrators.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
How the SPL ultimately deal with newco Rangers will be very much under the spotlight, more so than ever. If they re-instate newco Rangers they may not be able to fall back on the wegie press to defend their position:wink:
If the club currently known as Rangers is liquidated and thus form a new club and should said new club be given Rangers place in the SPL expect to see several of clubs resigning from the SPL, ourselves and Celtic would probably be two of the first to leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by H18SVG
Is there a time period that the British goverment could go after these people who got EBT's for back taxesnot paid. Here in Canada it's 7years.
Different tax system for employees. In US + Canada, individual gets his salary from employer then has to account to tax authorities. Most people in UK don't have to do that because the employer is responsible for deducting the appropriate amount of tax. If the employer operates an incorrect scheme or fails to declare something, then the payment is grossed up and the employer is liable for the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummer
UEFA must be interested in this.
The level of incompetence/dishonesty in Duff and Duffer is staggeringly hilarious.
If they're no punted, I am finished with the SPL forever.
If SKY/ESPN walk, in support of these crooks, then I'll cancel ma subs - I suggest we all do and tell them exactly why.
Billy Dudds and Dick Dung are lying bassas - and both should join Campbell O in the dole queue this week.
I look forward to the latest guff from Neil Dungcaster - should be some new guff to bemuse us soon.
Unfashionable as it is i feel sorry for the Rangers fans. I remember when we were shafted by a similar group of corrupt shysters and it's a horrible feeling.
The vast majority of punters at Ibrox are just normal guys who love their fitba albeit with a dodgy songbook thrown in.
I actually find the lust for blood amongst fans of other clubs, including ours, slightly distasteful and am thankful we didn't have to suffer anything like the same degree of scorn and vindictiveness back in the dark days of Duff, Gray Rowland et al.
As dodgy as our shysters were, they were piss poor amatuers compared to what seems to have gone on at the huns.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash
And the lust for blood? Well, that might have something to do with the sackful of trophies garnered by the club as the cheating gathered pace. Who wouldn't feel bitter about that?
Huns were more than happy to lord it over everyone. Don't want to do the time? Don't do the crime. To compare systematic cheating over a prolonged period with the incompetence of Duff & Gray is laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by flash