Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by Onion

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.

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Please explain how and why this is likely to happen?


:cb

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Originally Posted by Onion

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.

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If the SFA have any balls they should be revoking Hearts membership to play in the SPL next season. If they don't a dangerous prescident could be set that would be a real kick in the stones for those who believe in sporting integrity.

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Originally Posted by Onion

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.

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Lets just hope its Massone then. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Dashing Bob S

There is no reason the authorities will let them off with it, rather than incompetence and procrastination. I think that's what Hearts are relying on. Their sole hope seems to be that they struggle into the season before liquidation, them cause as much chaos as possible, making the league's problem rather than their own.

It's the 'Scottish football is ****ed, we need to sort it out' approach. I think that Scottish football is likely to say 'no, you're ****ed, sort yourself out.'

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Speaking to fans of other clubs, none seem too bothered about a newco Hearts being allowed in the top tier.

As long as it pisses The Rangers fans off more, then they seem ok with it.

They don't seem to care that Hearts cheated, because they're not one of the OF.

It's an attitude that needs to change. I'm worried that it wont change and Hearts will get off relatively unpunished.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

Speaking to fans of other clubs, none seem too bothered about a newco Hearts being allowed in the top tier.

As long as it pisses The Rangers fans off more, then they seem ok with it.

They don't seem to care that Hearts cheated, because they're not one of the OF.

It's an attitude that needs to change. I'm worried that it wont change and Hearts will get off relatively unpunished.

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On a hot day, comfort yourself with two words.

Frozen shares.

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Originally Posted by Onion

If the Yams pull off the great escape by agreeing a CVA and remaining in the SPL -albeit with a 15pt pen- then IMHO this becomes a potential business model for other clubs. In effect they would have had funding of c £50m over an 8yr period for 10% of the cost, retaining their place in top flight football, retaining their main assets (ground & brand) and retaining the trophies they won during this period. Yes, they're going through a lot if upheaval and Vlads tenure was rocky to say the least, but effectively someone will end up owning a debt free club for less than Celtic paid for Scott Brown.

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I agree, that unless there are sensible (and strictly enforced) financial rules for football clubs, these kind of approaches can be used by folk with the brass neck to do it (Rangers and the EBT springs to mind). If our governing body can pool together and find one brain cell they will realise that a fundamental and strictly enforced overhaul to the financial rules is required.

I would think that administration should amount to automatic relegation by at least a division. This makes sense in terms of keeping the club as a going concern if only because in theory the wages required to compete two divisions lower should be an absolute fraction of what they were prior to administration. The fact that clubs would have to release all of their players on big wages is basically tough luck - and the reward for making an a**e of the finances.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

On a hot day, comfort yourself with two words.

Frozen shares.

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That's the current predicament. But as we very well know, rules can be changed in an instant in Scottish Football.

They can allow a newco Hearts to stroll straight into the top tier if most people agree to it. And i'm seriously worried that many clubs will.

As I said, fans of other clubs don't seem too bothered, simply because Hearts aren't the OF.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

Speaking to fans of other clubs, none seem too bothered about a newco Hearts being allowed in the top tier.

As long as it pisses The Rangers fans off more, then they seem ok with it.

They don't seem to care that Hearts cheated, because they're not one of the OF.

It's an attitude that needs to change. I'm worried that it wont change and Hearts will get off relatively unpunished.

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I'd imagine supporters of other teams would be thinking if they the yams do stay in the SPFL then they should have a season of not worrying about being relegated.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

That's the current predicament. But as we very well know, rules can be changed in an instant in Scottish Football.

They can allow a newco Hearts to stroll straight into the top tier if most people agree to it. And i'm seriously worried that many clubs will.

As I said, fans of other clubs don't seem too bothered, simply because Hearts aren't the OF.

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For the Hun perhaps, who - like it or not - are part of the fabric of Scottish society (regrettably), but not for a smelly bunch of also-rans from the west of Edinburgh.


:yw:

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Originally Posted by johnrebus

For the Hun perhaps, who - like it or not - are part of the fabric of Scottish society (regrettably), but not for a smelly bunch of also-rans from the west of Edinburgh.


:yw:

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There was more of a noise coming from fans of other clubs over the Rangers situation. Everybody from every other club wanted to see them punished.

It's different with Hearts however. Most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps from Gorgie cheated, simply because they're not Rangers.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

There was more of a noise coming from fans of other clubs over the Rangers situation. Everybody from every other club wanted to see them punished.

It's different with Hearts however. Most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps from Gorgie cheated, simply because they're not Rangers.

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Hearts have a lot less accolades and considerably less fans than Rangers, which will mean any defence mounted will be pitiful. The clubs will by and large take the same stance as last season but this time we'll also have Rangers being vocal that Hearts should suffer similar fate to them.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

It's different with Hearts however. Most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps from Gorgie cheated, simply because they're not Rangers.

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I get the feeling this is one of those occasions where if you post the same thing often enough it becomes a .net FACT. I for one don't know fans of any other clubs who are particularly sympathetic to Hearts plight, outside of the OF they are the most disliked club in Scottish football imho.

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

I get the feeling this is one of those occasions where if you post the same thing often enough it becomes a .net FACT. I for one don't know fans of any other clubs who are particularly sympathetic to Hearts plight, outside of the OF they are the most disliked club in Scottish football imho.

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When Rod spoke of sporting integrity being 'Beyond Purchase' financial integrity and budgets etc his lips were talking about Rangers but the glint in his eye said Hearts...

Whatever happens a precedents were established last summer that will make it very difficult for newco Hearts to argue against or the SPFL to fail to uphold

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Originally Posted by ...WentToMowAnSPL

When Rod spoke of sporting integrity being 'Beyond Purchase' financial integrity and budgets etc his lips were talking about Rangers but the glint in his eye said Hearts...

Whatever happens a precedents were established last summer that will make it very difficult for newco Hearts to argue against or the SPFL to fail to uphold

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Exactly. If the Rangers situation had never happened, then the clubs maybe would have considered that a situation where Hearts had to form a newco because of Lithuanian legal process as being unfortunate and therefore they should be allowed to continue at the top level (albeit with punishments already in place for entering insolvency). Whereas in fact the Rangers situation has happened very recently. They will be mindful of the probability that Rangers will be in the top division within 2 years. The last thing the other clubs want is for the Rangers supporters to be in a vengeful mindset and carrying out boycotts on clubs that voted against them but said or did nothing against Hearts.

You'll get some (mostly Celtic) fans who will joke that "wouldn't it be funny to leave a newco Hearts in the top flight having punted a newco Rangers?", but the clubs won't be influenced by fans on this issue in the way that some clearly were with Rangers. The clubs will look at it objectively and the balance of risks favours maintaining a consistent stance on the issue. On top of that you only have to look at the public statement of Romanov about Rangers, which I don't recall any Hearts people disagreeing with.

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

Exactly. If the Rangers situation had never happened, then the clubs maybe would have considered that a situation where Hearts had to form a newco because of Lithuanian legal process as being unfortunate and therefore they should be allowed to continue at the top level (albeit with punishments already in place for entering insolvency). Whereas in fact the Rangers situation has happened very recently. They will be mindful of the probability that Rangers will be in the top division within 2 years. The last thing the other clubs want is for the Rangers supporters to be in a vengeful mindset and carrying out boycotts on clubs that voted against them but said or did nothing against Hearts.

You'll get some (mostly Celtic) fans who will joke that "wouldn't it be funny to leave a newco Hearts in the top flight having punted a newco Rangers?", but the clubs won't be influenced by fans on this issue in the way that some clearly were with Rangers. The clubs will look at it objectively and the balance of risks favours maintaining a consistent stance on the issue.

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Did you say, maybe a few pages back, that the way of deciding has changed? That it's the Board (?) rather than the clubs?

Just wondering if that might change the process slightly, or whether in effect it will still be the clubs who will inform that process.

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

Exactly. If the Rangers situation had never happened, then the clubs maybe would have considered that a situation where Hearts had to form a newco because of Lithuanian legal process as being unfortunate and therefore they should be allowed to continue at the top level (albeit with punishments already in place for entering insolvency). Whereas in fact the Rangers situation has happened very recently. They will be mindful of the probability that Rangers will be in the top division within 2 years. The last thing the other clubs want is for the Rangers supporters to be in a vengeful mindset and carrying out boycotts on clubs that voted against them but said or did nothing against Hearts.

You'll get some (mostly Celtic) fans who will joke that "wouldn't it be funny to leave a newco Hearts in the top flight having punted a newco Rangers?", but the clubs won't be influenced by fans on this issue in the way that some clearly were with Rangers. The clubs will look at it objectively and the balance of risks favours maintaining a consistent stance on the issue. On top of that you only have to look at the public statement of Romanov about Rangers, which I don't recall any Hearts people disagreeing with.

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Yep and how many Celtic fans will genuinely have a soft spot for Hearts?

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Originally Posted by joe breezy

Yep and how many Celtic fans will genuinely have a soft spot for Hearts?

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A Celtc mate of mine said a few years ago (long before Rangers 1873 took their final Stannah up the stairs to the stars) that away at Hertz was Celtc's most aggy game, more so than OF games. His words: you could scrape the bile off the walls.

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Originally Posted by nonshinyfinish

A Celtc mate of mine said a few years ago (long before Rangers 1873 took their final Stannah up the stairs to the stars) that away at Hertz was Celtc's most aggy game, more so than OF games. His words: you could scrape the bile off the walls.

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:agree:
Staying round the corner from Swynecastle i would say that currently the atmosphere before a Celtic-Yams game is poisonous. Not that Celtic should be the driving force in sanctions but that the clubs/board see fit to hand out proper punishment(s).

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

They can allow a newco Hearts to stroll straight into the top tier if most people agree to it. And i'm seriously worried that many clubs will.

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Actually they cant. Unless its been changed between moving from the SPL to the SPFL but I am sure PTS or GG will know.

In order for a club to compete in the top division here, and elsewhere, a club needs a UEFA licence. In order to obtain a UEFA licence they are required to produce three years audited accounts. Any Newco will not have these.

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

:agree:
Staying round the corner from Swynecastle i would say that currently the atmosphere before a Celtic-Yams game is poisonous. Not that Celtic should be the driving force in sanctions but that the clubs/board see fit to hand out proper punishment(s).

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Wonder what other fan forums are saying about this alleged fudge ? :-) preventative strike time

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

I get the feeling this is one of those occasions where if you post the same thing often enough it becomes a .net FACT. I for one don't know fans of any other clubs who are particularly sympathetic to Hearts plight, outside of the OF they are the most disliked club in Scottish football imho.

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I'm not interested in ".net facts", i'm interested in "facts".

The idea that fans of other clubs feel the same way towards Hearts as we do, is a ".net fact", not a "fact".

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Originally Posted by Kaiser1962

Actually they cant. Unless its been changed between moving from the SPL to the SPFL but I am sure PTS or GG will know.

In order for a club to compete in the top division here, and elsewhere, a club needs a UEFA licence. In order to obtain a UEFA licence they are required to produce three years audited accounts. Any Newco will not have these.

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It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

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Hibs.net fact. Not a real fact. This was done to death last year.

From the SFA's Licencing Requirements:-

"Exceptional dispensation may be granted by the Licensing Committee in certain cases where a club is unable to provide historical financial information ."

I would contend, m'lud, that the reason The Rangers weren't able to provide such information was because they didn't actually exist in the previous 3 years.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

I'm not interested in ".net facts", i'm interested in "facts".

The idea that fans of other clubs feel the same way towards Hearts as we do, is a ".net fact", not a "fact".

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With my work being in glasgow I have friends who are Rangers, celtic, thistle and St Mirren fans. They all want them done properly. My brother in law is a killie fan and I also know fans of both Dundee clubs who want the properly punished. Whilst thats not everyone associated with those clubs it does show to some extent that there is not a love in for them either.
I would agree tho that there would probs have been a much greater level of ill feelung towards the greater zombies last summer.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

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No you dont. The three years accounts is a UEFA requirement and you cant play in the top divisions under UEFA juristiction without one.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

I'm not interested in ".net facts", i'm interested in "facts".

The idea that fans of other clubs feel the same way towards Hearts as we do, is a ".net fact", not a "fact".

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Not sure what thats got to do with what I posted but, never mind.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

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Do yourself a favour and turn your PC/mobile/laptop off and get out and enjoy the weather. I've read all your posts on this thread this afternoon and you are slavering a lot of nonsense as far as I'm
concerned. You are coming across like you have zero grip on the actual situation. To suggest the fans of other SPL clubs aren't bothered about Hearts woes is ludicrous. Their arrogance of the last eight years is enough to turn most fans of other teams against them.

A precedent was set last year with the death of old Huns and the outcry about new Huns being parachuted into the SPL. There is not a chance that a newco Hearts would be allowed to walk into the top league. Not a chance.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Did you say, maybe a few pages back, that the way of deciding has changed? That it's the Board (?) rather than the clubs?

Just wondering if that might change the process slightly, or whether in effect it will still be the clubs who will inform that process.

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It was actually for the board to decide back in the days of the Rangers fiasco but they (understandably) chose to put it to a vote of all clubs in view of the potential fallout.

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Originally Posted by Hibercelona

I'm not interested in ".net facts", i'm interested in "facts".

The idea that fans of other clubs feel the same way towards Hearts as we do, is a ".net fact", not a "fact".



It didn't stop The Rangers from getting into division 3.

As I understand it. You "need" 3 years audited accounts to get into any tier of the professional leagues.

Again, it didn't stop The Rangers.

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Youre the person saying " most fans of other clubs don't care that the smelly tramps cheated". Is that a "fact", a "net fact " or just your opinion? Personally from my small survey of Dons, Dee, Killie & St J fans they want Yams to be reamed, now that is a fact!

People think a Hearts Newco would be able to stay in the SPL?

Wow. This is paranoia of celtic proportions.

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Originally Posted by Pames McJake

People think a Hearts Newco would be able to stay in the SPL?

Wow. This is paranoia of celtic proportions.

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Maybe that's my fault - I said that it could happen, and by the rules as I understand them it could.

I don't believe for a minute it will though.