Yet we all take itQuote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
Printable View
Yet we all take itQuote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
HMRC were never chasing the debt. Even if they had won this case, they would have got very little.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
It was always about establishing a precedent to enable them to pursue other clubs who operated the same schemes and who do have money.
I'm not sure what you mean by the establishment?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
HMRC fought against an agressive avoidance scheme and took MIH to court twice to try to secure money (through other EBT cases) for the UK taxpayer.
Has the EBT 'loophole' been closed or are other clubs free to use it? If not closed then it is something Hibs should look into.
It was closed some years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee
Yep I know that. Similar schemes were operated by several current English Premiership & Championship clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
However chucking more money at this Rangers thing is wasting everyone's time and the public purse doesn't deserve any more of this.
The UK or Scottish establishment doesn't give a **** about a stupid Glasgow football team that ran up debts and became persona non grata in the post new Labour luvvie environment due to the behaviour of its fans & their bigotry. The Establishment never lifted a finger to help Rangers. Unlike Hearts where you had the first Minister of Scotland pressurising the Lithuanian Ambassador etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
That's how case law works, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
Had HMRC won, the public purse would have benefitted by applying the precedent to those other clubs.
It's easy to say in hindsight that it was a waste of money.
Aye, OK then.:cbQuote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
Just about correct!Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Mandela
We always knew that was the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
No we should not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee
Thankfully it was closed awhile back - ask that man Dodds
Just to be clear, the football clubs which were using EBT's make up a tiny minority of the companies that HMRC are going after. This isn't about football clubs (though they did go after Rangers and of course they aren't a fan of the football creditors rule).Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
In terms of unfairness and abuse of the system to make the wealthy wealthier, this is pretty bad. I personally hope that they appeal right to the lords if they are able to, and if they lose there then they pick another case and approach it from a different angle.
From what I understand, this verdict, like the FTTT judgment isn't entirely one-sided. The bulk of the HMRC appeal has been disallowed, but the I think the UTTT judge has directed some cases back to the lower tier for reassessment. Does anyone know if HMRC can go to a further appeal now, or do they have to wait for the revised UTTT result?
There was already some tax due after the FTTT verdict, but the media announced the news as if Rangers had been entirely cleared of liability. Expect a similar distortion in the papers tomorrow. There's also been a suggestion that Collyer-Bristow have had to make a large sum available to the creditors of the old club so Hun fury will be greater than ever.
You're right about it not being a clear "win", and that some of the issues have been sent back to the FTTT. If, as seems likely, those decisions go in favour of HMRC, that will put a dent (no idea how much) in the liquidation pot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengeich
I have no idea if HMRC can take the remaining case to the Lords. Nothing has been mentioned in the media, unsurprisingly.
I didn't know about the CB thing. BDO were suing them, so perhaps they've come to a settlement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
HMRC are considering an appeal
i hope they get it and win, always someone else's fault with that great dirty unwashed mob!Quote:
Originally Posted by keekaboo
It does not matter one jot as they were liquidated.
Exactly that club no longer exists. The fact the died for no good reason makes it even funnier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyM_1875
Rangers always have and will continue to have the erm most favours handed out to them.
Their supporters feel they have been hard done by. Now, what I don't understand and hopefully one of the intelligentsia will be along to assist, but if the judges have ruled that the EBTs were indeed loans why don't the hun just get them all to repay them? This would surely fix all their money problems.
Because they no longer exist, you can't pay back money to a dead man. Rangers are dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius Apuleius
Cue the mock outrage and we did nothing wrong witchhunt from them and their pals in the MSM. Every bit as paranoid as the other shower from the weedj.
"They" do still exist. The company that formerly owned the football club is still "in liquidation", which will continue until that process is complete.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
BDO, as liquidators, are currently suing the club's former lawyers for £30m. If that succeeds, then yes, the money will be paid to your "dead man."
It does matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If the appeal succeeds, and HMRC have the resulting authority to pursue other companies, UK plc could be quids in.
And, they're not yet liquidated.
The new Hun incarnation is an entirely separate business from the one which was put into liquidation in 2012, so if any loans are ever repaid (don't hold your breath) the money would go into the trusts set up by the old club. The trusts were even separate from the old club so repayments wouldn't even benefit the creditors of the old club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucius Apuleius
The club now operating out of Ibrox has no entitlement to anything relating to EBTs.
Will the dead man pass it on to the rangers? No so who gives a ****. Rangers are dead, if they end up rich in death it won't help themQuote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
No but they are no longer a functioning football club. The two are not connected because they chose to run and hide.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
That may matter more on the 'Tax payers alliance' forum. On a football forum, people are only really interested on the effect on the football team. In this case it's none because the old Rangers are dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
:-)
As a taxpayer, I give one. The money will be passed on to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...iness-28957732
HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has been granted permission to appeal against a tax ruling over Rangers Football Club's use of employee benefit trusts (EBTs).
The ongoing tax claim has no impact on the current Rangers owners.
so who would a successful appeal have an impact on :confused: former players ?
It would have no impact on the former players.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
It would have an impact on:-
1. the liquidation of the old owners of Rangers. A successful outcome would mean more of a payout to HMRC, and less to the other (smalle) creditors).
2. it would help HMRC in their actions in similar EBT cases against other companies.