Tories are lying *******s (warning may contain traces of Tory)

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Originally Posted by RyeSloan

Surely there is plenty of data out there that can be mined to give a reasonably accurate picture without that much effort?

Is that not what the Office for National Statistics is there to do?

I know about as much as JMS on this specific topic but is the suggestion that the basic assumptions under pinning healthcare spending allocation are 40 years old?

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No, my fault for wording my posts badly I suspect!

Regarding your last sentence, there is a huge wealth of data on healthcare, it spans weekly performance data in individual hospitals to national data gathered in 24-month cycles and everything in between. To an extent, it's probably too much data - you can count just about everything in healthcare but bridging that gap between those different forms of data and turning it into meaningful and purposeful allocations of resource is a Herculean task.

With regard to your first sentence, the point I was trying to make was that if you tried to introduce a new form of council tax, rates or local income tax, it would be a mammoth exercise that would require huge resourcing across central and local government. Likewise any piece of work to change or restructure how healthcare is resourced.

There has been an erosion in capacity within central and local government over the last eight years due to 'austerity' or whatever we choose to call it. Brexit has taken up a massive amount of what was left, with civil servants removed from their substantive posts to work on the sheer volume of detail involved in leaving the EU. The actual practicalities of trying to reset Barnett, at least in my opinion, would be a huge ask of an already depleted workforce and were it to be done properly, I don't think there's the adequate resource to do it properly while there is so much flux in the system.

The ONS and the likes of the General Register Office are important in providing projections, but the planning and implementation work still needs to be done by people (and the ONS and GRO are only making projections, based on pre-existing evidence and reason-based assumptions)

Thanks MA, interesting stuff [emoji1303]

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit...id=mailsignout

SNP and Labour voters are knocking lumps out of each other whilst the Tory mask slips again. What an odious bunch of racists they are.

http://thenational.scot/thejouker/16...it-goes-viral/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45693143

:hilarious

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

SNP and Labour voters are knocking lumps out of each other whilst the Tory mask slips again. What an odious bunch of racists they are.

http://thenational.scot/thejouker/16...it-goes-viral/

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Ah Jenkin, the epitome of the home counties Tory






https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.V...5&pid=3.1&rm=2

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

SNP and Labour voters are knocking lumps out of each other whilst the Tory mask slips again. What an odious bunch of racists they are.

http://thenational.scot/thejouker/16...it-goes-viral/

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This is the sort of thing Ruth Davidson should be tackled on instead of the round the clock "Oor Ruth, what's she like?!?" North Korean esque levels of adulation the media bestows on her.

Just listening to the Tory conference speeches it's incredible that they've still not understood that article 50 is designed to facilitate the departure of a nation from the EU and not what the relationship will be after that departure. Article 50 is only intended as a process for exit negotiations and the UK need to get on with the job at hand instead of what should happen afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Just listening to the Tory conference speeches it's incredible that they've still not understood that article 50 is designed to facilitate the departure of a nation from the EU and not what the relationship will be after that departure. Article 50 is only intended as a process for exit negotiations and the UK need to get on with the job at hand instead of what should happen afterwards.

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They haven't got a clue, it's incredible that they're responsible for delivering Brexit.

They make it up as they go, soft/hard Brexit, no deal better than a bad deal, hard/soft border in Ireland...

Where was all this when the referendum was coming up?!

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Originally Posted by matty_f

They haven't got a clue, it's incredible that they're responsible for delivering Brexit.

They make it up as they go, soft/hard Brexit, no deal better than a bad deal, hard/soft border in Ireland...

Where was all this when the referendum was coming up?!

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The leave camp were all over the place with mixed messages. A lot of them said 'of course we're going to remain in the single market'. Bunch of lying gits.

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Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby

The leave camp were all over the place with mixed messages. A lot of them said 'of course we're going to remain in the single market'. Bunch of lying gits.

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Agreed, hence the reason we need a 2nd referendum to say whether what's been agreed is acceptable to us all or that they need to go back to the drawing board.

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Originally Posted by Just Alf

Agreed, hence the reason we need a 2nd referendum to say whether what's been agreed is acceptable to us all or that they need to go back to the drawing board.

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We need to stop calling it a “Second referendum” its the First referendum on the Deal (or not) that the Government have managed to achieve (or not).

The referendum on Leaving the European Union was an advisory referendum that set the course for Government Policy. We must now decide whether we are content with what they have achieved.

J

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Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

We need to stop calling it a “Second Reffrendum” its the First reffrendum on the Deal (or not) that the Government have managed to achieve (or not).

The reffrendum on Leaving the European Union was an advisory reffrendum that set the course for Government Policy. We must now decide weather we are content with what they have achieved.

J

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Very good point and I agree with you 100%



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I'm not a great fan of open letters, they have something Jomboesque about them, but this one's a corker.

Dear Mr. Hunt,
Greetings from Lithuania, Britain’s loyal partner in NATO.

Greetings also from myself, Mark Adam Harold, a British immigrant democratically elected to the City Council of the beautiful capital city Vilnius, a city which, thanks to EU freedom of movement and to those who fought to free Lithuania from the Soviet Union, I have been proud and able to call my home since 2005.

I was elected in 2015 on a platform of tolerance, openness, transparency and liberal democratic values. These values, until sometime during 2016, I held to be British. I was, in part, elected by Lithuanians who hoped that a Brit would have a deep and historic understanding of those values, making him the ideal antidote to lingering socialist ideals and the persistently oppressive, top-down approach of Eastern European governance. I hope you can agree, that bearing in mind the enormously hard work she did to free the East, the previous female leader of your party would be overjoyed to see me sitting here carrying the torch, a torch that was once your party’s logo.

When I was sworn in as a representative of the people of Vilnius, I became, as far as I am aware, the only non-citizen in Lithuanian history to pledge allegiance to the Lithuanian Constitution. With my hand on that Constitution, I promised the people of Vilnius that I would defend their interests, their rights and their freedoms with every breath I take. Of this fact, as you might be able to understand, I am extremely proud. This duty and solemn responsibility I take extremely seriously.

It is in accordance with my oath that I write to you today.

This morning I read with shock, disgust and embarassment that you, a high-ranking British parliamentarian and a potential pretender to the office of Prime Minister, in a Conservative Party Conference speech, compared the EU to the Soviet Union.

Your comparison was not only infantile, it is also irresponsible for a person in your position to push such buttons in the context of the Kremlin’s continued propaganda war to divide Europe, a war in which far too many British politicians have become enthusiastic footsoldiers, useful idiots and collaborators.

This is a war which Mr. Putin finances lavishly, finances which undoubtedly influenced the referendum on the UK’s membership of the European Union, finances which successfully ensured the result Russia so dearly wanted. This is the result which you now cherish and pervert, presenting it in your latest speech as the desire of “52% of the British people”, while clearly much less than 50% had in mind the kind of chaotic, amateurish, economically damaging exit that you and your colleagues have succeeded in arranging.

Your hysterical and hallucinogenic speech will be applauded in the corridors of the Russian secret services whose disinformation campaign tactics you are mimicking so closely that it makes me wonder whether or not you are receiving their payment via a Maltese bank.

You campaigned for Remain but have since decided, presumably for Machiavellian career-progression reasons, to reverse your position and give speeches that pander to the most europhobic and vile sectors of your party, along with knowingly rousing the rabble of deranged and discredited organisations such as UKIP, the EDL and Moscow First.

The latter organisation does not exist, although in the current degenerate political atmosphere to which you, Mr. Hunt, are contributing, it would not surprise me to learn that such an organisation already operates and organises rallies without your condemnation.

More importantly, and I cannot stress this enough, your speech spat in the faces of millions of dead people’s surviving relatives, people who experienced and resisted and suffered under actual soviet terror, people who were actually imprisoned in the actual Soviet Union, people who fought for and prayed for the kind of freedom you take for granted and now recklessly abuse.

Ordinary words cannot fully express my fellow Vilnians’ feelings about you, but swearwords can. Unfortunately, due to the restrictions of the oversight of the Vilnius City Council Ethics Commission, I am unable to use such words freely in official communications. Suffice it to say, Mr. Hunt, that one of the words I would like to deploy rhymes with your name.

Sincerely,

Mark Adam Harold
City Councillor (Independent)
Vilnius, Lithuania, European Union

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Originally Posted by Bristolhibby

We need to stop calling it a “Second referendum” its the First referendum on the Deal (or not) that the Government have managed to achieve (or not).

The referendum on Leaving the European Union was an advisory referendum that set the course for Government Policy. We must now decide whether we are content with what they have achieved.

J

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Spot on, and a good way to put it.

If there had been a white paper before the vote and the government were delivering as per the white paper then we wouldn't need a vote on the deal. Given the pre-vote mess and range of options/opinions on future relationship with EU that were presented by Leave we absolutely have a right to vote on the terms (which will almost certainly be a no-deal Brexit now).

May has played a blinder here. Make an absolute fool of herself at the party conference so that becomes the main focus, taking everybodies attention away from the parties policies. No mention of the policies in the newspapers, TV or other media platforms. Just a single nonsensical moment that doesn't matter whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

May has played a blinder here. Make an absolute fool of herself at the party conference so that becomes the main focus, taking everybodies attention away from the parties policies. No mention of the policies in the newspapers, TV or other media platforms. Just a single nonsensical moment that doesn't matter whatsoever.

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You see what you want to see. There has been plenty of commentary on the actual content.

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Originally Posted by marinello59

You see what you want to see. There has been plenty of commentary on the actual content.

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Really? Because i've read the party manifesto and very little that i'm hearing from the media reflects what i've read. It's just one pointless distraction after another.

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

May has played a blinder here. Make an absolute fool of herself at the party conference so that becomes the main focus, taking everybodies attention away from the parties policies. No mention of the policies in the newspapers, TV or other media platforms. Just a single nonsensical moment that doesn't matter whatsoever.

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Sitting here in Berlin, it took me all of 20 seconds to find Guardian articles doing just what you claim is no-where to be found ...

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Really? Because i've read the party manifesto and very little that i'm hearing from the media reflects what i've read. It's just one pointless distraction after another.

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Looks like you are easily distracted then. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

Really? Because i've read the party manifesto and very little that i'm hearing from the media reflects what i've read. It's just one pointless distraction after another.

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Is that another straw man argument from you?! 😉

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Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee

May has played a blinder here. Make an absolute fool of herself at the party conference so that becomes the main focus, taking everybodies attention away from the parties policies. No mention of the policies in the newspapers, TV or other media platforms. Just a single nonsensical moment that doesn't matter whatsoever.

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It would have been absolutely great if she'd slipped on her backside while bopping across the floor.

She'd probably have had to resign or something.

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Originally Posted by heretoday

It would have been absolutely great if she'd slipped on her backside while bopping across the floor.

She'd probably have had to resign or something.

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In other news, the judging panel from Strictly will be presenting their own Brexit plan on Saturday.

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I hate myself for this, but her crap dancing is actually making me warm to her.

Sorry.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

In other news, the judging panel from Strictly will be presenting their own Brexit plan on Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Radium

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5a71d80965.png



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Plagiarist.

I would have had no idea who he was. Does he play for Liege? [emoji3]

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I see the Tory *******s have underpaid people on certain benefits to the tune of nearly £1 billion.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

I see the Tory *******s have underpaid people on certain benefits to the tune of nearly £1 billion.

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The errors made in calculations were inexcusable.

Has the SNP though not had the ability to take over the welfare payment system in Scotland since 2017? If so why have they not done this? Why did I read recently that the SNP have actually asked to Tories to keep administering it for even longer?

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Originally Posted by johnbc70

The errors made in calculations were inexcusable.

Has the SNP though not had the ability to take over the welfare payment system in Scotland since 2017? If so why have they not done this? Why did I read recently that the SNP have actually asked to Tories to keep administering it for even longer?

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Is that it, the errors were inexcusable?

It's only those disabled, and on the bread line, so let's move along and find out what the SNP are doing about it.

Fyi, carers in Scotland received £221 uplift to their allowance last month, with another payment coming along in December.

Maybe we should take a bit of time to get the system we want rather than duplicate the failures from England.

Fairness, dignity, and respect in Scotland. What's not to like.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Is that it, the errors were inexcusable?

It's only those disabled, and on the bread line, so let's move along and find out what the SNP are doing about it.

Fyi, carers in Scotland received £221 uplift to their allowance last month, with another payment coming along in December.

Maybe we should take a bit of time to get the system we want rather than duplicate the failures from England.

Fairness, dignity, and respect in Scotland. What's not to like.

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I think the DWP deserve the criticism and rightly so, they are a Tory government department. But at the same time the SNP have had the ability to take over the welfare payment system in Scotland but have failed to so do, they have even asked the Tories to keep administering it for them on their behalf. That also deserves some criticism as well does it not? If they had the chance to take it out the hands of their tories in 2017 then they should have. They could have implemented their fairness, dignity and respect much sooner and as you say that's a good thing.

So both the Tories and SNP could have done better on this episode.