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This is Article 48.12 - contentious issue is likely to circle around why only a few lapped cars (the ones between Hamilton & Verstappen) were given the signal to unlap themselves. #F1 #AbuDhabiGP
2 contentious points: - "any cars that have been lapped .. will be required to pass" - Not just a few of them - "the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap" - not the same lap
Lewis has won seven titles, Max has been appointed one.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
I think they could’ve let all the cars unlap themselves. It’s a really quick process and you don’t have to wait until they’ve rejoined the back of the grid. The time between the decision to not let the cars overtake and the decision to allow some to overtake was enough time for all the cars to unlap themselves. The stewards made a mess of it and then tried to fix their mistake. I think they got it right eventually but it was a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
You’re not taking this well at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
What a shame, was always likely to happen but I really hoped that we wouldn't be talking over contentious issues after someone was crowned champion.
But the FIA have made a mess of it not for the first time this season either.
Yeah and that’s the rub.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I’ve never ever seen lapped cars unlapping themselves and the safety car coming in seconds later.
There was always going to be controversy and I agree that Charlie would not have put himself in the middle of this like Masi has done.
The right man won there. You cannot finish that race behind a safety car, you go racing at the end. End of.
As far as I'm aware, the race director has the ultimate say on what happens within and around the rules so Mercedes can protest all they want, the result won't change.
I love both these guys, I think they're likely 2 of the most skilled athletes to ever have walked the Earth so I don't have an agenda, but I much prefer Verstappens style. Lewis is an absolute hero though. The right man won.
I think that the problem was that the restart should be the lap after which would have had the race finishing after the safety car.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
It is a genuine shame and the criticism sits squarely with Race Control. RB and Max are racers and took what was in front of them.
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More rigged than boxing.
Re writing the rules on the last lap of the season with a championship in the balance knowing full well the person losing is on fresh tyres.
Absolute joke of a sport.
Races ending behind the safety car are reasonably common.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Exile
I get Masi wanted a flying lap but the rules are pretty clear and he broke them to make that happen…that can’t be right surely.
And yeah neither driver deserved to lose the Championship as they were both in different class but neither does Lewis deserve to lose because the Race Director broke the rules in a manner never seen before!
At least now you’ve decided not to watch it again you will have more time to run Hamilton’s fan club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
I think there's also a rule which says the race director has the final say in how the rules are interpreted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Whether we think he's right or wrong (again*) the result will stand.
* There's been numerous occasions this season where we've all been left scratching our heads.
Its been like this all season, some benefitting Max some benefitting Lewis. As bad as officiating in football is at times the refs never make it up as they go along like has been happening in F1. Yeah I get it drama is part of the sport but this a manfactured and gets in the way of the actual sport. I'ts not good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazzling Doidge
Max is a worthy Champ and I can't see them changing it but I get why Merc are upset and kicking up a fuss.
Sorry to see Lewis losing the tltle in such clearly controversial circumstances after having such a commanding lead - F1 hasn't done itself any favours with this strange decision IMO. Good to see Lewis being a true sportsman and congratulating Max. Bring on next season then ....
I’ll be back watching BTCC - fantastic racingQuote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
This is the first race I've watched since the early 2000s and a procession ended under a safety car wouldn't have been a satisfying end. The race director didn't manufacture a crash that brought out the safety car but did allow for a racing finish. It didn't suit Hamilton because of their reluctance to pit but Max had to be there to take advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Enjoyed the spectacle. Both drivers would be worthy champions with the season they've had.
I think masi was desperate to avoid being in a position of being accused of influencing the outcome, and shat himself when the Latifi crash happened, and panicked, and ended up manifesting the one thing he was petrified of, being at the centre of a storm around the culmination of the driver’s title
seen someone online saying he should have red flagged it, which would have then provided a 5-10 lap straight shootout, gets the lapped cars out of the way, and means there’s no dubiety about rules being applied etc
have to say, I think masi has been very poor this whole season, and isn’t a patch on Charlie whiting as a race director
I think the only thing they can do is take the race result from lap 57 as lap 58 didn’t follow racing regulations and as much as I think he’s dangerous, I’d truly feel for Max. Lewis too.
It’s hugely damaging to the sport, either way. I don’t know how they retain trust or credibility from that.
My beef isn’t with Max here as other than the incident at the start of the race he did nothing wrong, it’s with the sport in general. Nobody wins from this, irrelevant of how it pans out.
Objection around the overtake rightly rejected - in the context of the restart no overall advantage from what I saw.
This felt like Mercedes giving the FIA an easy way out with a 5 second time penalty and the restart not being examined.
This will end in the court of arbitration.
Picking up on a comment by Martin Brundell, I think that looking at the support available for michael massi needs to be a priority for next season. Race Control have created the mess but if he is being asked to manage safety whilst every team principal can call him out on air, that is not healthy
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I disagree, all he has to do is follow the rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
just remove the ability of the teams to directly contact him
in the event of an incident, he/his team simply publish publicly an email/communication as to what judgement was made and why
What did he do wrong in the incident at the start of the race? On your last point of course someone wins, a world champion is declared and will enter the history books.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
That was probably the most exciting end to a season I can remember. In the end the best man won, the sport needed a new champion and its good to see Honda putting out a championship winning engine again.
Max is champion...for now lol
I think we’ll leave it there as there’s no talking sense with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
In future id like them to follow NASCAR in that they'll try finish race under green by adding 3 laps, green, white chequer they call it...
So anyone who disagrees with you isn’t talking sense. :rolleyes: You are incredibly childish, throwing your toys out the pram when the result didn’t go the way you wanted it to. Enjoy the touring cars next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...edd13fb22e.png
From the stewards determination.
Masi changed how the restart was done and as mentioned above now has the ignominy that he tried to avoid.
Neither team or driver has done anything wrong but Masi and his team have opened the sport to ridicule. Not because Max won, but by making last second changes to the restart that he did, he made that the only likely outcome.
I must admit that I feel a bit cheated but not by RB, Max or any of the drivers but by a sense that it was just too stage managed. Will Liberty be able to squeeze a bit more money out of sponsors for the revenge title series next year?
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Wondered the same thing regarding the incident at the start,struggling to see what MV done wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Mercedes have submitted their intention to appeal.
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Mercedes have gone from undignified to desperate, practically a laughing stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Hardly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs Class
The Stewards themselves has stated that the rules were ‘not applied fully’…it’s the ‘well what do you do about that’? question that they then answer as being not to revert to the lap before positions.
Merc have been done over by Masi not applying the rules correctly…that much is clear.
Quite what should be done about that is not clear and therefore the Stewards have decided that shortening the race to discount Masi’s blunder was not appropriate but I’m sure Merc will be asking the question again!
Masi has to go after this disaster and the other rather questionable decisions this season (the Spa debacle being another one where he seemed all to happy to have a whole race behind a safety car!)
Bang on the money there mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
The Race Director manipulated the rules to an unprecedented degree to generate a last race sprint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs Class
He had at least two options to avoid this situation: red flag the race or don’t let any cars pass. He did neither and blew it.
If it was the other way around RB would be doing the same and I wouldn’t blame them.
I agree that it is totally undignified but the application of the two rule books have always courted challenge from all teams
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They'd all run out of fuel!Quote:
Originally Posted by JXM73
I know you'll come back and say they should put more fuel in but they're restricted in the amount of fuel they are allowed and already some cars, like Ferrari, struggle to make it to the end of some races.
The stewards explained that Article 48.13 overrides the possibility that the earlier rule MAY have not been applied fully. My reading is that because of that override the need to rule on 48.12 became moot, so I disagree with your first point.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
forgot they run the cars almost empty..but again is that not the risk you have to take, will tyres last longer etc. Something has to be better than making it up as you go?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...65da4683e3.png
Hadn’t considered this. He did seem to be delighted to be on the podium and is probably happy not to be part of the mess
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Bring back refulingQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack
Embarrassing. Just like being in Glasgow when the Race Director/referee has the final say in how the rules are interpreted. Porto being sent off for sneezing in the box and giving away penalties for smiling at people
Not really a fan of Formula 1 now (it always seems to be more about technology and strategy more than driving ability) or Lewis Hamilton. I can understand wanting to give the race director discretion but there was no fair way of him exercising this given the different strategies adopted by the drivers. Accordingly, you need hard and fast rules so the teams know what will happen.
It also doesn't seem sporting to be able to nip in for new tyres when your opponent can't do it because the race might not even continue. It definitely wasn't a level playing field which is what apart should be about - but I guess Formula 1 is anything but a level playing field.
Have to say I admire Lewis H a lot more for the way he handled everything.
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It wasn’t applied fully…anybody can see that. It’s crystal clear on the fact that the safety car needed to do another lap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs Class
They decided that the Race Director has control of the safety car..that is also true.
But surely he needs to exercise that control within the rules?
Suppose this season was always going to end in controversy!
Yeah don’t think he will be too bothered but it does show that the decision was a poor one in that it only benefited one driver!Quote:
Originally Posted by Radium
Mercedes have withdrawn their appeal with the FIA announcing a full review of the last 5 laps of the race.
This from the FIA
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...08379fba9e.png
Probably as dignified a solution as could have been achieved
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59691827
Verstappen said: "I can understand the first few days after a race like that you're not happy.
"But you should also understand this is racing and these things can happen."
"I don't feel sorry [for him] but I can understand that it can be very painful but at the end of the day," he said. "He also won a championship like that."
Max Verstappen doesn't do emotional intelligence or reading a room. Gone to feeling sorry for him as to how this has gone down to completely not.
Lewis Hamilton: Mercedes driver to decide on F1 future after Abu Dhabi inquiry
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59951382
Would be very surprised if he walked away.
He won’t, he’s trying to pressure the inquiry into finding that he was cheated out of the world championship. Like all F1 drivers he needs excuses for things not going his way. The verdict won’t change anything, it will be designed to keep everyone happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
If I am honest, Hamilton back or not isn’t the real issue.
The FIA screwed up by making it all about the drama. An unsupported race director was exposed for entertainment value to the rants of Team Principals so that they could broadcast a 15 second soundbite. It led to a loss of clarity around rules and penalties and ultimately led to at best a novel use of the rule book in the last race.
What needs to come out is a whole lot of clarity around restarts, track limits, stewarding and running other drivers off the track. I stand by my opinion that Masi got it wrong but his paymasters hung him out there.
As a Hamilton fan I would like to see him race again but if he doesn’t there are plenty of other drivers that will make it worth watching.
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I wonder who Mercedes would go for driver wise if Hamilton does walk away. Could see them offering bundles of cash to buy out Pierre Gasly's contract.
Formula 1 is to make Covid-19 vaccines mandatory for all personnel this year.
The move will mean no-one will be able to work within the paddock - F1's inner sanctum where the teams operate - without being fully vaccinated.
The policy will apply to all personnel working within F1, including drivers, teams, media, hospitality workers and any guests who attend the races.
It is not expected to have an impact on any of the drivers' ability to compete as all are understood to be vaccinated.
Masi been removed from his role as race director.
New Ferrari is absolutely gorgeous.
They all look pretty nice. I’m liking the Aston and the Alpha Tauri.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
If that’s what the front wing end plates look like in race trim they won’t last long!
The cars look very different.
I'm not sure about your comment Northernhibee. The driver is going to look as though he's sitting in a very, very expensive hot tub 😆 Time will tell if its a fast hot tub 😉
Love the look of the Ferrari too, very old skool in their 75th anniversary year. They have gone in a compeltely different direction with the new regs than the other teams though by the looks of it, so in a couple of months time they will either be absolute geniuses or utter mugs. Fair play to them, they've really just gone for it more radically than the rest.
I've liked the look of most of the cars this year so far. Haas is basically a driving russian flag and the Williams seems a bit plain but the others all look good.
I'm pleasantly surprised how different all the cars look, some really interesting differences between the sidepods and packaging particularly.
I think that the Williams and the Aston Martin look really nice.
It will be interesting to see if the new regulations do what we all hope they do and allow better racing and other teams to be closer to the top 2.
Ferrari seem to have taken a really different approach, so they could be geniuses, or we could see a whole lot of changes there again in 9 months time.
Looks like Haas has now dropped Mazapin from the team with a new replacement to be announced soon ... and no more Russian GP
They must have secured a new sponsor then, his dad was pumping money into them in return for his son to drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay
Fittipaldi is there back up driver bit wonder if they will be looking for someone with a mega bucks sponsor.
Magnussen back at Haas, Mazepin Father and son sanctioned.
That new Merc unveiled today is something else!
IF it works they could have stolen a march on everyone. Some reports suggesting it gave them a near second improvement in their wind tunnel modelling.
Horner not happy. Which is a big surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
Those cars are so low at the back, if they hit the kerbs or go onto the gravel they’re going have bits falling off.
Rumours that the new Mercedes sidepods alone are worth the best part of a second a lap.
That’s your double diffuser moment right there if true.
If they've found a loophole then fair play, that is a total Brawn GP moment. Although I enjoy watching Verstappen's driving style, it would be absolutely hilarious if Hamilton and Russel were a dot in the distance to him this season :greengrin
He'll still have a chance to take him off every race, it'll just be when he's being lapped :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by The_Exile
They didn’t look like they’d found any time this morning in Bahrain, Hamilton wasn’t very quick at all. In fairness most cars seemed to be taking it quite easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Exile
I have a feeling they’ll have been sandbagging and leaving the other teams guessing if it’s worth exploring that avenue.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
I think lots of teams are doing that in testing, it won’t be until the last day we see what they’ve all got.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Quite honestly I don’t expect it until Q2 of the first race. Even if they hold back half a second until they have to, with the cars being so different I think they’ll all keep something up their sleeve.Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
Once they persuade Lewis he doesn't need a built in CD rack, it'll go much faster. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by lord bunberry
https://storage.googleapis.com/the-r...s-1024x682.jpg
It looks like he’s trying to tune into radio Luxembourg :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Yeah, if it is worth a second a lap then there's no chance they'll show that now as it would give the other teams plenty of time to either copy it or, more likely, try to get it banned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
Looks pretty cool, and I love stuff like this, hate it when all the cars look the same. Love teams taking a risk.
Drive to Survive (Season 4) has just gone live on Netflix - thought the previous seasons were all very well produced ...
I can’t wait to see these cars hitting sausage kerbs at monza etc. going to be absolutely carnage with how low the cars sit, especially the Ferrari
Seems he has now changed his made - which is an even bigger surprise ... :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
After the qualifying simulation runs this afternoon it looks like it'll be a Red Bull v Ferrari shoot out for pole. Mercedes look absoultely woeful and I was surprised at how well the Haas and Alfas were going (Bottas in front of Hamilton was quite funny). Williams look like they could sadly be stone dead last again. However, I just cannot rule out Mercedes and would it surprise me if they were in with a shot of the front row tomorrow? Well, yes.....but no.......
Very sad to see. If Masi and the FIA have blocked Hamilton’s last chance at record eighth title because they wanted to keep Netflix happy it’d be a ****ing travesty.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Exile
All looking very tasty for tomorrow
Early days but great to see Mercedes not being the fastest car for the first time in what feels like forever.
Both red bulls out at the end, Ferrari one two, Hamilton 3rd
Bad day for Redbull. Potentially three out of four power unit failures in the first race
Hopefully RB not back to reliability issues.
After the complete lack of humility from Horner and Verstappen over the winter that was an absolute Carlsberg Sunday. Can’t wait to see his face on DTS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northernhibee
funnily enough that was my thoughts as well, the 2 of them have preened themselves all winter, after both acting like spoiled petulant children for most of last season
I think the championships (both drivers, and constructors) will depend on how far Ferrari can stretch out the lead before Mercedes get their s**t together and stop that car bouncing more than a jambo's cheque book. I said it earlier on in the thread that the Ferrari looked so outlandish compared to the rest of the cars theat they would be geniuses or muppets and it looks like they've nailed it. The power unit is clearly well ahead of the Red Bulls (3 retirements in the first grand prix will have alarm bells ringing big time), Mercs and Renault engines and you only need to look at how well the Alfa's and Haas cars ran on Sunday to confirm that. Ferrari don't seem to be suffering in any area and looks like the only car stable enough to be winning races consistently until the circus hits the traditional European stage of the season when the big updates usually arrive.
Having said all that, it's only one race and no doubt the teams would've learnt a lot on Sunday, likely much more than testing. If I was a betting man I'd be between Ferrari and Red Bull, as long as Red Bull sort their reliability problems out pronto as the actual car itself seems to be really quick. Losing 30 points in 2 laps won't win them much of anything this year.
What the hell has happened to those McLarens though? They look absolutely awful out there trudging round towards the back.
Missile strike not far from the circuit. Drivers meeting going to about 2am local time. What a ****ed up situation.
Lewis Hamilton for being such an advocate against war and in favour of peace had a real chance tonight to make a statement, if anyone could send a shockwave through the world it’s him by boycotting the race it’s him.
Unfortunately he’s fallen into line. Obviously the potential championship points are more important than anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDoidge
not sure if it’s as simple as that, the drivers were told there were other factors like whether they’d be allowed to easily leave the country of the race didn’t go ahead
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by McD
Saudi Arabia are a ****ing disgusting regime and I’m sure they did the same with WWE a few years ago, had their plane sit on the tarmac for 7 hours.
Hopefully this is the final time we see the guys racing at Jeddah, regardless of how exciting a track it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDoidge
don’t disagree mate, although I think we’ll both be disappointed about how long they continue to race there
Big crash for Schumacher apparently ok but off to hospital for a check.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patch1875
really bad one, glad to see he appears to be doing ok
It’s not a safe track. Cars battering into concrete at that speed should have ended thirty years ago.
In so many different ways racing this weekend shamed the sport.
Red Bull gives you whinge.
As long as the Ferrari remains reliable, the fat lady is warming up her voice already I reckon.
They have to find ways to manage qualifying sessions better than that. That was unwatchable.
What's with sky's coverage these days, a lot of changes in presentation and presenters. Definite downgrade on last season imo.
Naomi Schiff is pretty awful…at least it means less time for Johnny Herbert tho!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatecrasher
I see Monaco is finally on a shoogly peg. Always a total bore fest that should have been dropped long ago.
Sure it’s a favourite of the paddock but from a fans perspective it’s brutal.
She actually is awful. Agree about JH as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyeSloan
It looks like they have an A and B sqaud for this season, we're getting the A squad this week.