It’s not true. You have to be working toward the Euro. Which can go on forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Let’s put it in perspective. Sweden has been “working towards the Euro”, it still has the Swedish Crown.
J
It’s not true. You have to be working toward the Euro. Which can go on forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Let’s put it in perspective. Sweden has been “working towards the Euro”, it still has the Swedish Crown.
J
I know that, you know that, but still we have people saying otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
The Swedish crown is its own currency. It's not a similar situation until we get our own currency. How long will that take in your opinion and why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
No there’s no evidence. It’s blatant, shameless lying. On and on and on ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Yep, and on and on and on.........Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
So what's a lie? You never replied until the others did, jumping on the bandwagon there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
So how long until we get our own currency and be like Sweden?
Accession criteria for the EU
https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-e...on-criteria_en
Nothing about currency (surprise!) as that is to do with Eurozone membership. Which isn’t the same thing, no matter how often Goebbels310 repeats themselves.
Now who is trolling 🤔😁Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
🤔😉
Chapter 17
"The acquis in the area of economic and monetary policy contains specific rules requiring the independence of central banks in Member States, prohibiting direct financing of the public sector by the central banks and prohibiting privileged access of the public sector to financial institutions. Member States are expected to co-ordinate their economic policies and are subject to the Stability and Growth Pact on fiscal surveillance. New Member States are also committed to complying with the criteria laid down in the Treaty in order to be able to adopt the euro in due course after accession. Until then, they will participate in the Economic and Monetary Union as a Member State with a derogation from the use of the euro and shall treat their exchange rates as a matter of common concern."
While we continue to have Sterling the Bank of England will be our central bank, that's not our own independent central bank as per the rules above, it's the central bank of another country.
When we get our own currency we need to agree to adopt the Euro, like it says above. To be like Sweden and never actually commit to it we need our own currency, like Sweden has, to get our own currency we need to pass 6 tests that could take decades.
This debate was about how quickly Scotland could join the EU, with someone saying it would be quickly, the evidence suggests otherwise.
It's SNP policy to only introduce a new currency once the 6 tests have been met, who wants to take a stab at explaining those tests and how long they think they will take to meet and pass? Anyone?
I can't see the SNP hurrying to explain these things to us. They like to give the impression that after a quick referendum, "a rush and a push and the world is ours" - to quote the bard.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Like the Brexiteers, it will all be fine and Brussels will make a special case for us. It will be dead easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by heretoday
Talking of Brexiteers? How is that working out for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
I have been consistently against Brexit, never voted for it and think it's a terrible idea. We should be aiming to stay in political, economic and social unions, don't you agree?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Yes, but your opinion on the economic suicide of Brexit and a no deal Brexit can be summed up as, “yes, it’s a bit sh*t but it is what it is” where as “Independence will be Armageddon”.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
I don’t see the same level of balance on both subjects from you IMO. Although you’re not alone as some of the SNP supporters do exactly the same.
I accept democracy as well. Both were voted on via referendums and we voted to Leave so I accept that. I do think a no deal could be as bad as it gets though, Armageddon as you say? perhaps....let's pray that never happens. Indy would make a bad situation much worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
I'm not following the Tory leadership debate on Channel 4, but I see they've left an empty podium where Bozo was supposed to be. What a comtemptuous and cowardly thing to refuse to participate.
As I said a couple of days ago. He doesn't have to turn up to them. They're utterly meaningless. The leadership will be won on the bribery and backstabbing that goes on behind the scenes. Not what is said on a podium in front of cameras.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba
Watched some of the debate.
Rory Stewart by far the most impressive
Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
Caught the second half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callum_62
Hunt was probably most statesmanlike and appeared very magnanimous when stepping in after Gove was challenged about his cocaine dabbling.
Gove got carried away a couple of times and dropped a clanger when answering the question from the woman with a son on the autistic spectrum.
Saj actually wasn’t terrible, within context. Raab seemed out on a limb.
Stewart seemed to have a barnstormer, albeit I didn’t see the whole programme. This could be a real breakthrough moment for him. He certainly did very well in setting a narrative of him being the ‘honest outsider’ which probably helps given I picked up that Saj had challenged him earlier in the debate on being Eton and Oxford-educated.
Straight away.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
We own a part of the Bank of England. We own Sterling.
Should we let the rUK use Sterling? And if not why?
J
Rory certainly has that calm psychopathic charm about him.
https://i.ibb.co/BNrm4ct/rapey.jpg
Didn't see it but that was quite predictable - he's been consistently impressive in interviews and will eat Bojoke alive in a F2F. Convinced he was the main reason the Oafus Fatus didn't turn up tonight, hoping that Stewart gets knocked out before the BBC debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
So you are saying the 6 tests will be passed immediately? Are you serious with that statement?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolhibby
If so then I am sorry I can't take you seriously.
What you are saying is at odds with the SNP policy agreed at their conference.
The Slovaks got independence on 1st Jan and had introduced a new currency by mid February, so it could be done really quickly if required, so I suppose I could ask the question what specifically makes you think Scotland would be likely to take much longer than recent similar examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Edit, I see you've mentioned the 6 tests, that's the SNP criteria currently, if its a Labour or Tory led government they may have a different view.
Because Slovakia never had the same political, economic and social characteristics as Scotland. They never had a massive financial services industry that is solely in the currency of the one they left, they never had mortgages, loans and pensions still to be paid in the 'old' currency. Everything was converted to the Euro, not something that will happen here. It's comparing apples and oranges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Alf
It's a very unique situation in Scotland. I am not aware of other countries that would be a similar example to what is being proposed in Scotland, apart from Panama.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...nama-1-4745894
Here we go again, Scotland has already got all the EU criteria in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Scotland has financial services, etc in place, Slovakia had to start from scratch, suggesting that it will be so much easier.
And change your mortgage to a Scottish provider, I've explained that to you already.
Aye, they had nothing to do politically with the Czech Republic, nobody had a mortgage or pension there. They were all just living in caves.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
They're just not like is at all. 😂😂😂
Yep, Scotland is too weak, poor, inadequate, incapable, dependant, stupid, divided, socialist.... to make a success of running it's own affairs. Better to remain on the teat of Westminster who only have our best interest at heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
As I said on another thread about Fife Hibs’ nonsense about the majority of no voters being anti Scottish racists, and that doing independence no favours. Similarly your efforts to paint Scotland as somehow a negatively unique example of a country potentially becoming independent doesn’t do your pro union arguments any favours either.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Stewart seems to appeal a great deal more to non-Tories than the alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
For a Prime Minister at a difficult time for our country that would undoubtedly be a good thing.
Sadly the Tories will be looking for a ******* to represent their *******-like interests, so he won't get very far.
He is an infinitely better candidate than Boris and Gove.
I'm actually surprised at how acceptable the rest of them are managing to make Hunt look.
The debates are utterly meaningless due to the fact that most Tories will have already made up their mind. A T.V. debate only really makes sense when the public are the one's who get to choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I am sorry people don't like the facts.
One comment was we have the final services in place, not sure if that was meant as financial institutions required to join the EU. Do we have our own central bank which is required to join the EU? No we don't. Will we be in charge of our own monetary and fiscal policy while we have Sterling? No we won't.
There are plans to establish a Central Bank, we certainly need one with our own currency. We get our own currency when we meet the 6 tests, so again I challenge anyone to explain the 6 tests, when they will be achieved and how they will be achieved. Anyone? You all seem so confident so give it a go.
Anyone else think the tests will be met immediately like another poster seems to believe?
If it's all so simple, should be easy for you all.
You can put your fingers in your ears and pretend it will all be fine if you like, your just like Boris Johnson and Dominic Raab...it will be fine, we are Scotland so it will all be fine. Don't worry about the details, it will all be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Do you want to take a stab at telling us how long we will be sterlingised, and then how long the 6 tests will take? Go on, give it a go.
What is it you want in terms of an answer? Your post talked about the “facts”, as has been pointed out numerous times your “facts” are like me asking for you to give me the “facts” around the UK post Brexit, most of it is open to interpretation.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Whether it is in Scotland’s best interests to become independent is the actual debate, and where people can be persuaded one way or the other. There have been numerous examples over the months giving examples of countries who have become independent and others who have joined the EU as a newly independent nation. Whether that is a better position to be in than to remain in the UK is the debate to be had, but your attempts to paint Scotland becoming independent as some unprecedented feat too complex and difficult to fathom so it’s best just not to bother is tiresome and disingenuous IMO.
The facts are that chapter 17 of the Maastricht treaty which deals with monetary policy state any country wanting to join the EU must have a fully independently run central bank.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
The facts are while we are Sterlingised we will not have a central bank. So we will not be joining the EU while we have Sterling. So for however long we use Sterling we will not be joining the EU, that is clear.
So the further facts are that to get our own currency which requires a central bank we need to pass the following 6 tests. This is SNP policy.
1) Fiscal sustainability: Has the Scottish Government sustainably secured its fiscal policy objectives and sufficiently strong and credible fiscal position, in relation to budget deficit and overall debt level?
2) Central Bank credibility and stability of debt issuance: Has the Scottish Central Bank and Government framework established sufficient international and market credibility evidenced by the price and the stability of the price of its debt issuance?
3) Financial requirements of Scottish residents and businesses: Would a separate currency meet the on-going needs of Scottish residents and businesses for stability and continuity of their financial arrangements and command wide support?
4) Sufficiency of foreign exchange and financial reserves: Does Scotland have sufficient reserves to allow currency management?
5) Fit to trade and investment patterns: Would the new arrangement better reflect Scotland’s new and developing trading or investment patterns?
6) Correlation of economic and trade cycle: Is the economic cycle in Scotland significantly out of phase with that of the rest of the UK, or at least as well correlated with the cycles of other trading and investment partners, thus making an independent monetary policy feasible and desirable?
Now the question was how long will it take Scotland to join the EU, many on here seem to think it will be a few years and relatively easy.
On what basis is that assumption founded when you look at the facts? You can quote Slovakia or whatever but the facts are above, that is the path that the SNP have chosen. So let's stick to that path, not the path that other countries have taken as the circumstances are different.
So based on the facts above, my opinion is Scotland will be out the EU for a long time. Why? Because we will have Sterling for an undetermined period of time, and the 6 tests are almost impossible to meet over the short to medium term. We are talking long term here, not within a few years.
Now I have taken the time to fully explain my reasons, does anyone want to tell me in the same details why it's wrong? Or does it all happen behind the scenes and computers and stuff will sort it out.
The only people who say that are people like you essentially.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
You want to create this false narrative that no one else is even suggesting.
I guess trying to create resentment by using the language you do makes up for a vacuum of any rational arguments to make your case.
”..The teat of Westminster”, really? That’s just silly.
Also not sure whether to question what ‘our best interest’ means when I actually live in Scotland and you don’t :confused:. What claim have you to use the word “Our”?
Especially when a clear majority rejected the referendum result you wanted, admittedly much to your chagrin and wrath in the aftermath.
So tell us, what is the true narrative that we should all be following? Clearly you must know, if you're talking down other narratives being presented.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
I think you misunderstand the concept of narratives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
Then please, feel free to explain the concept that I appear to be struggling to grasp here. Your post seemed to suggest that Hibrandenburg was presenting a narrative that nobody else follows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
I'd be interested to know which narratives you believe people do follow.
I’m happy to explain the concept you say you are struggling to grasp, though I am sure, in fact know from experience that Hibrandenburg can speak for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
You asked what ‘true narrative’ I was presenting as ‘clearly’ I had one. I suggested no such thing.
In this context, narratives are social constructions. I have challenged the validity of the one that was put forward in the post I quoted and have done similarly in the past.
I challenged it because the portrayal of ‘Scottish’ people as too downtrodden or scared or powerless is often used by those advocating nationalism, as an example of what they term ‘Scottish cringe’.
Unfortunately, it is advocates of nationalism alone who tend to use this argument, which suggests that it is actually a rather shabby device to stir up resentment. It fits very well with the separatist response to the referendum result, where No voters were either stupid, scared or senile though.
In answer to your last point, that’s why I queried your grasp of narratives. Narratives are fluid, dynamic and ultimately constructed by the interchange of language, ideas, discourse and in this day and age, everything from Twitter through to what books people read and what conversations they have with family, friends and colleagues through to what adverts they see and what they watch on YouTube, Netflix or Amazon Prime. Narratives are always contested and contestable but obviously some carry more weight at certain times and certain places than others do.
I'm sure they can. I just thought i'd ease in on this as you appeared to be claiming that they and them alone only held such a narrative. Good to see that you've corrected it with this post though. Suddenly it has gone from being the narrative of 1 individual to the narrative of over 1 and a half million.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
You are struggling now I’m afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
If you go back and look at the posts I said ‘people like you’ and in the next sentence said ‘you’. It’s still a plural even if you chose to read it wrong.
And it’s not the narrative of 1.5 million.
It’s the narrative of a really disaffected minority who haven’t come to terms with the result and want to create a story of resentment and playing the Scottish electorate as stupid, weak or both.
You said "You want to create this false narrative that no one else is even suggesting."Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
I'm asking you what the true narrative is. You appear to be taking on the narrative of people "playing the Scottish electorate". Yet, you've provided nothing that gives your narrative anymore credibility than the narrative presented by Hibrandenburg.
You appear to be under the impression that your narrative is law and any narrative you don't agree with is false.
As I say, you don’t seem to grasp the concept of narratives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
They are not there to be ‘true’, that would be stupid, and I’m not suggesting there is a true narrative, by definition they are subjective and constructed.
What there are however is false or falsely constructed narratives, which are a particular trope of nationalists and should be challenged at every opportunity, on the basis that they seem to lack rationale.
Your last sentence is unworthy, I make no such claim, I’d like you to demonstrate my narrative and where I said it was law. In your own time.
Are you on this thread for respite from Hibbyradge on the other thread? You are struggling a bit on both, to be honest.
Possibly too late to affect the outcome of this leadership election, but these debates may well have a bearing on what happens in the next one in November/December.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
All their mortgages and pensions were converted to Euros, all our mortgages and pensions will not be converted to the new currency. So no, not like our situation at all, you were correct there. Unless you have proof otherwise. Please share.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
But let's stick to the path we have chosen, not some other country who chose a different path. So in your opinion how long will we be using Sterling for, and what is your opinion on the 6 tests, how long would test 6 for example take to achieve? Separation of our trading and economic cycle with the rest of the UK will surely take some time? All relevant to the question about Scotland joining the EU.
I imagine your response will be some emojis and an avoidance of the question, because when anyone asks a question that requires an answer of substance you go back to the emojis. Let's see.
When you give me the answer of how, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic had nothing to do with each other politically, which you've said, we can maybe move on. Considering they shared an area of land with each other for some time, I'd be interested how they could have avoided each other for so long.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
The Velvet divorce is one you should read up on. It will eventually take you to an actual country being set up, with a currency in a number of weeks.
The trouble is, you don't want to hear of these things which "actually occurred", it doesn't suit your narrative of, it's too hard.
At least you're on the correct thread today. Tories are lying *******s, traces of tory, with a hint of lib Dem.
I'm off to work now, so I'll leave you to your morning read of the daily heil, and torygraph.
Ok, I was wrong in that one aspect. But Slovakias path is nothing like the path Scotland has chosen. I have laid out the path the SNP have chosen, let's focus on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
Now can you answer the questions? No emojis allowed.
What’s the SNPs path got to do with anything? What is it with unionists and this idea that an independent Scotland somehow equates to an SNP Scotland? An independent Scotland may well reject the SNP vision. Independence gives us the power to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
It’s terrifying just how many people in Scotland have bought into the “independence = SNP = bad” narrative in the British MSM.
Try actually thinking for a change.
Because that's the policy and path that is in front of us today, I don't see an alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
It's legitimate to question what is in front of you, not a policy that does not exist.
Of course you don’t see an alternative. Parties that don’t openly support independence are hardly going to go public about any plans they may have in the event that it does happen. But I’d hazard a bet that even the tories in Scotland have some plan tucked away, just incase. They just aren’t going to mention them right now as it doesn’t suit their narrative that an independent Scotland is somehow economically impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
So you have a go at me for not considering the alternative plans, the ones that you tell me nobody has seen. Not sure you thought that one through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
You’re missing the point entirely. Any alternative plans are being hushed up by the parties that hold them. It’s not that there aren’t alternative plans, they just want people like you to believe that there aren’t any alternatives and you’re falling for it, just as they intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Do you have proof of these plans being hushed up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
We have some people's assemblies coming up, I wouldn't want to prejudice the ideas and hope that'll come from that. I'll leave you to your own devices, of divided and conquer which you've been schooled at, and see the Indy movement prosper, whilst the union withers on the vine.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Have a Guid day.
As expected, minus the emojis.Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
Have a good day.
If I had proof, don’t you think I’d be sharing those plans with everyone? There’s obviously not going to be any proof until after independence is achieved when the parties start sticking their economic policies on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
You only have to apply common sense though. It would be absolutely mental for them not to have plans of their own in the very likely event of independence in the near future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
Winning hearts and minds I see, Ron? :na na:Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
None of us know what the currency will be in an independent Scotland. You have focussed solely on us keeping the pound and the EU pitfalls of that. Fair enough, can you also give us the same detailed analysis for each currency option and the pros and cons of that currency in relation to joining the EU?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
You’ve been given a recent example of Slovakia leaving a union and setting up their own currency in a couple of months. You counter that by saying Scotland’s example is somehow different, it’s only different because it doesn’t suit your narrative. You’ve also been given the example of Finland joining the EU. These are examples of setting up currencies, and also joining the EU, how well do they relate to Scotland? I don’t know as I don’t know what currency we will choose or even who will be in power in an independent Scotland. You choose to focus’s on keeping the pound as it presents the most negative scope for you to latch onto, I never hear you talk about any other scenarios.
That’s why I said the real debate is the reasons to stay in the union v becoming independent, not (some would say deliberately) get bogged in the detail of specific scenarios when there are lots of different scenarios that could happen. Doing that bores me into submission and I’m likely to give up reading the “debate”. Talk about the pros of staying in the union and why that’s the best path is something I’d be more interested in reading and a persuasive argument that may convince me. That goes for Fife Hibee too and simply making stuff up like the majority of no voters being anti Scotland racists to suit his agenda.
I talk about the scenario that is the current policy of the Scottish Government, that's the path they want to follow. The other countries chose a different path, I will focus on the path that is presented in the Sustainable Growth Commission report as that is now policy and the path we will take if there ever is a Yes vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Modfather
It's not my job to sell other options, I am not the one proposing significant changes. It's my 'job' to oppose what is being suggested with reasons why.
There is no timeline regarding how long Scotland would be sterlingised as you put it. Scotland uses Sterling at present but intends to move to it's own currency when and IF the time is right. That's what the six tests guidelines are about and they're just that, guidelines. I personally think it's dexterous to have a roadmap for what currency Scotland MIGHT use after independence. The tests are a sensible guideline for making the transition but are not set in stone like you seem to believe and rightly so. Economics is by it's nature dynamic and any sensible economic plan needs to remain flexible.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
The narrative in the last Indy Ref was as clear as day. There was a constant bombardment telling us we would crash and burn if we voted yes. The narrative was one of how dependant we are on the UK because we couldn't cut it alone. Of course there were also conciliatory voices but they were few and far between, especially within the no campaign within Scotland itself, some even going as far as saying "we're not genetically programmed to make political decisions". I know you don't like that statement but it sums up the no campaign back then quite nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
I've put, John, James, and Janet down to a hard, No. He's not actually worth the time. Lots more pensioners oot there to convince.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylar
Maybe when they see how they're treated with pensions and TV licences... Well you never know eh. 😏
Not if you take it in the satirical context I meant it. I'm tired of hearing how we Scots (and I am Scottish no matter what you might think) are "subsidy junkies".Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
This remark disappoints me MA, you're better than that. I was born in Scotland, grew up there, I'm influenced by the people, history, culture and education I received there as well as having family, friends and financial and social connections there. I also have the right as an EU citizen to cast my vote there in EU elections. To somehow suggest I fail some kind of reverse "Norman Tebbit" nationality test is beneath you. You can take the laddie out of Scotland.........Quote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Would you also promote the idea that foreign citizens living in the UK should cut ties with their heritage or does it only apply to Scots living abroad?
Same unionist voices on every thread with the same arguments. [emoji849]
Tory leadership race is more interesting and I’m sure there are other threads for this chat.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So in the context of the question how long will it take Scotland to rejoin the EU you have no answer and no firm timelines. So you agree the assumption 'quickly' that was put forward was without basis and based on nothing at all other than a wild guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
So next time someone suggests Scotland will quickly join the EU we can see that is not the case at all.
Same nationalists as well, with no answers and nothing to back up their points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
You've already had the currency question explained on numerous occasions, if you don't want to understand then that's your problem. Scotland joining the EU will be a formality, any adjustments that might be needed will be minimal, why should Scotland's integration be impossible when every other member has managed to adjust? Too wee, stupid, poor, dependent..............?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Maybe you could look for a thread to chat about it or start one yourself?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I listen to BBC 5 live at work and there seems to be a constant stream of tory MPs backing BJ in the leadership contest, that are having to defend him under some robust questioning.
Johnny Mercer was ripped earlier about how many kids BJ has (the answer is somewhere between 4 and 7), Liz Truss last week about the racism and homophobia etc, all the while BJ is in hiding. Mental.
How about asking questions that can realistically be answered at this stage. Instead of the Scottish Tory tactic of demanding absolute answers right now regarding matters that are clearly too volatile to realistically give absolute answers to?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
What are they going to do when he becomes PM, just lock him in number 10 and have all his communications come out via a surrogate?
Maybe they should come to the realisation that if a man can't be trusted to keep his mouth shut, he shouldn't be running a country? :dunno:
The BBC are giving him a free ride by allowing him to send along surrogates. If he won’t appear himself then they should move on to other candidates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Grieves
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That seems to be close to what someone suggested on here. Something about Johnson being chairman in the amount of effect he will have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diclonius
Explained by who, not you. Full of opinions dressed up as facts, with little substance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
David Mundell, the "Scottish" secretary of state, has decided to support, Michael Gove in his efforts to become PM. The same, Michael Gove, who stole £160million from Scottish farmers.
That's the Tories for you.
Let’s be honest, most posts on here are going to be opinions (including yours).Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
You are doing exactly what was done at the 2014 referendum. Throw out enough unanswerable questions, and create enough doubt, you’ll sway enough people to run with the status quo.
Currency is not an insurmountable issue. It was used as a major weapon in 2014, and then Mark Carney stated afterwards that the currency wouldn’t have been an issue, it just needed negotiated by the two parties.
Currency is not a game changer here either, just needs negotiation and willingness on both sides (which there is) to make it work.
That’s exactly what you’re doing. “We can’t do this and we can’t do that”. Yet all you have backing you up are the Tory party and their pals in the British media. While the rest of Europe is saying something totally different.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Having had a fair bit of insight into the workings of different parties over the years, I think you're giving them too much credit. And that applies across the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
I think you're giving UK parties too much credit for thinking ahead. Brexit, I rest my case M'lud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
You're assuming brexit wasn't the plan all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Sorry but we're encroaching on tinfoil hat territory. I'm out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
I think you’ve misinterpreted my post, I maybe could have worded it more clearly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
I’m not disputing your connection and commitment to Scotland, Scottishness and being Scottish.
I was querying the use of the word ‘Our’ probably more in connection with me than with you.
I was born in Scotland and live in Scotland so presumably am part that ‘Our’ you refer to but I don’t associate my experience or belief with what you are portraying, and neither did a clear majority of Scots in 2014 I guess.
Language is a powerful thing and can be used to create very strong messages. Couching your beliefs as somehow representative of the whole nation is misleading, when you are really speaking for a disaffected minority. It happens quite a lot and I’m sure everyone does it but it seems to happen a lot more with the Nationalist posters.
Here we go again? How can a "country" that is not yet independent have all the criteria in place "already"? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Already pointed out we don't, like a central bank, but he never listens. It's a lie to say we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeeJay
Fair enough, what was the question again :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Interesting that the Telegraph go negative on Stewart when he is in last place.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4a0d6d9e62.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Johnson campaign going to lend hunt votes to make sure he is in final two.
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You really do have a bee in your bonnet about the 'we' and 'our' thing.:brickwallQuote:
Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye
Hibs fans around the world needn't bother supporting "our", club anymore, as they don't live here now. 😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
Looks like they need to drop that ‘unionist’ from their name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee
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None of this matters because Johnson is going to win.
Comfortably. Who knows what happens after that though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diclonius
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The only people in the UK who buy into the unionist tosh are the tories living in Scotland. The reality is, the vast bulk of the party membership are made up of English nationalists with a sense of ownership over Scotland and it's resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
A General election which polls suggest a Boris lead Tory party will win easily. Then he will be free to do what he wants.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If he’s advocating a hard brexit and labour are still failing to lead then I would not rule out the Lib Dem’s gathering up all the remain vote. Will Boris be able to stop the Brexit Party running? It’s a big business now, can’t see them standing down.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
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They can't even do an internal leadership election without cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
That's Tories for you.