SNP are lying b******s as well !

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Nurses asking for a 17% wage rise effectively?

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Id doubt it, where have you read that. They were balloted and rejected 5%

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Originally Posted by grunt

It's a nationwide strike across pretty much the whole of the UK. Why are you seeking to imply that it's a problem just for the SNP?

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I didn’t realise which thread this was on when I commented, it probably deserves one of its own. Hopefully people can concentrate on the rights or wrongs of the nurses case rather than it becoming a defence of perceived slights against the SNP as discussions around other Union disputes on here did.
For me it will always be a case of Which Side are you on? Who the boss is doesn’t concern me much. :greengrin

SG should offer 6% just now plus promise to match any offer made down south and back date it accordingly. That way Scottish nurses can stay at work on better pay while still benefitting from industrial action down south. SG benefits from having nurses at work and knows that any offer down south will trigger the appropriate Barnett consequentials.


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Originally Posted by marinello59

I didn’t realise which thread this was on when I commented, it probably deserves one of its own. Hopefully people can concentrate on the rights or wrongs of the nurses case rather than it becoming a defence of perceived slights against the SNP as discussions around other Union disputes on here did.
For me it will always be a case of Which Side are you on? Who the boss is doesn’t concern me much. :greengrin

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Thanks for criticising my post. I was simply pointing out that a post about "how are the SNP going to deal with the nurses strike?" kind of implies it's only a Scottish issue. While I understand that we have a separate NHS here, it is clear that this issue is wider than just Scotland. But carry on, focus on the mess that the Scottish Govt have got into over NHS pay and ignore that it's happening all over the country.

As for concentrating on the nurses case, strangely, I'm able to concentrate on multiple issues at the same time. Go me.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Thanks for criticising my post. I was simply pointing out that a post about "how are the SNP going to deal with the nurses strike?" kind of implies it's only a Scottish issue. While I understand that we have a separate NHS here, it is clear that this issue is wider than just Scotland. But carry on, focus on the mess that the Scottish Govt have got into over NHS pay and ignore that it's happening all over the country.

As for concentrating on the nurses case, strangely, I'm able to concentrate on multiple issues at the same time. Go me.

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Do you reckon snp could do anything you would criticise?

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Originally Posted by grunt

Thanks for criticising my post. I was simply pointing out that a post about "how are the SNP going to deal with the nurses strike?" kind of implies it's only a Scottish issue. While I understand that we have a separate NHS here, it is clear that this issue is wider than just Scotland. But carry on, focus on the mess that the Scottish Govt have got into over NHS pay and ignore that it's happening all over the country.

As for concentrating on the nurses case, strangely, I'm able to concentrate on multiple issues at the same time. Go me.

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I was sort of agreeing with you in that a thread with this title isn’t the place for this topic. No offence was meant. No idea why you are telling me to carry on focussing on the mess the Scottish Government has made. I’ll try not to start doing that though :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

SG should offer 6% just now plus promise to match any offer made down south and back date it accordingly. That way Scottish nurses can stay at work on better pay while still benefitting from industrial action down south. SG benefits from having nurses at work and knows that any offer down south will trigger the appropriate Barnett consequentials.


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Great idea.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

SG should offer 6% just now plus promise to match any offer made down south and back date it accordingly. That way Scottish nurses can stay at work on better pay while still benefitting from industrial action down south. SG benefits from having nurses at work and knows that any offer down south will trigger the appropriate Barnett consequentials.


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Accept a huge pay cut with the promise of maybes, the Tories are likely to never offer a fair deal. Scottish nurses overwhelmingly rejected scot govs real time pay cut. They have to give them a fair offer or they strike.

Lots of snp supporters online tonight acting like Tories with the I would love an inflation matching rise too, well unionise and if needed withdraw your work.

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Originally Posted by Jack

Great idea.

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It’s not really. 6% is effectively a cut. Abdicating responsibility and leaving the fate of the nurses in the hands of the Tories at Westminster isn’t the answer.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Nurses asking for a 17% wage rise effectively?

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Is it not 5% above inflation, but inflation isn't fixed, so, at the moment that's 15%

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Originally Posted by marinello59

I was sort of agreeing with you in that a thread with this title isn’t the place for this topic. No offence was meant.

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Sorry. Seem to be a bit raw just now.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Nurses asking for a 17% wage rise effectively?

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5% above inflation is what their claim asks for but not sure what measure they are using. It will still end up that nurses are worse paid now than when the Tories came in even if they are successful. It is not a greedy claim as they, like most public servants, have had their salaries and pensions slashed since the Tories arrived.

Scotland has done slightly better in terms of Public Service remuneration but the vast majority of public servants earn considerably less in real terms than they did in 2010. Scottish Civil Servants will find out tomorrow if we have voted for strike action with everything suggesting it will be comfortably over the thresholds of teh anti union voting legislation. Other Unions and workers will follow as we are nearing the point where there is little left to lose and we have suffered one too many pokes to the chest and cannot hold back any longer. The SNP have done a decent job of appearing to be a reasonable employer but that is only due to teh appalling way the Westminster Government have treated its employees.

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Originally Posted by grunt

Sorry. Seem to be a bit raw just now.

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No problem. Think we are all a bit raw, our football club doesn’t help. :greengrin

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Which lever?


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We plan to let the BoE make decisions on interest rates for an unspecified period of time whilst absolving them of any need to consider Scotland. You knew that though

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Originally Posted by wookie70

5% above inflation is what their claim asks for but not sure what measure they are using. It will still end up that nurses are worse paid now than when the Tories came in even if they are successful. It is not a greedy claim as they, like most public servants, have had their salaries and pensions slashed since the Tories arrived.

Scotland has done slightly better in terms of Public Service remuneration but the vast majority of public servants earn considerably less in real terms than they did in 2010. Scottish Civil Servants will find out tomorrow if we have voted for strike action with everything suggesting it will be comfortably over the thresholds of teh anti union voting legislation. Other Unions and workers will follow as we are nearing the point where there is little left to lose and we have suffered one too many pokes to the chest and cannot hold back any longer. The SNP have done a decent job of appearing to be a reasonable employer but that is only due to teh appalling way the Westminster Government have treated its employees.

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The 5% was when the rpi was 7.5 so a 12.5% increase, this was due to years of under inflation rises. The rpi is now 12% but they haven't said they want 5% above, they have just rejected the government offers

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Originally Posted by Skol

We plan to let the BoE make decisions on interest rates for an unspecified period of time whilst absolving them of any need to consider Scotland. You knew that though

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So the current status quo.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

So the current status quo.

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Nope although nationalists believe that to be the case.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Id doubt it, where have you read that. They were balloted and rejected 5%

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5% plus the current inflation rate is what they want

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

The 5% was when the rpi was 7.5 so a 12.5% increase, this was due to years of under inflation rises. The rpi is now 12% but they haven't said they want 5% above, they have just rejected the government offers

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The RCN, which represents about two-thirds of nurses in the NHS, has asked for 5% above the RPI rate of inflation, which stands at over 12%.

From the article on BBC.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

5% plus the current inflation rate is what they want

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That's Good, I doubt they will get it but the offer of 5% is a p take. They have had bellow inflation rises for 13 years. Its a much much lower paid job than it was a decade ago and with high inflation its at breaking point.

Starmer for example should be pushing for it. If he can't see the parallel between saying this week that not enough British people are becoming nurses and the fact their wages have been more than decimated, then he's dafter than I thought

Good article on the nurses perspective

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/wo...%20above%20the

Nurses are working one out of every five days for free because of a decade of real terms pay cuts, new analysis has revealed

The new analysis shows that given the currently very high rates of inflation, nurses at the top of Band 5 in England, Wales and Northern Ireland would need a pay rise of 45% over the next two years to achieve the same real earnings as they had in 2010-11, while nurses in Scotland would need a pay rise of 39% above the June 2022 pay offer.

In addition, it found a clear relationship between declining nurse salaries and the rate at which nurses are leaving the NHS workforce.

The total number of nurses leaving the NHS every year rose from 27,000 in 2010-11 to 38,000 in 2021-22, according to the report.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

That's Good, I doubt they will get it but the offer of 5% is a p take. They have had bellow inflation rises for 13 years. Its a much much lower paid job than it was a decade ago and with high inflation its at breaking point.

Starmer for example should be pushing for it. If he can't see the parallel between saying this week that not enough British people are becoming nurses and the fact their wages have been more than decimated, then he's dafter than I thought

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What public sector service doesn't deserve 17% then? Police? fire Service? Prison Service? What about the armed forces?

If the general consensus is that they all deserve 17%, had anyone done calculations on what that would cost and how it would actually be paid.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

What public sector service doesn't deserve 17% then? Police? fire Service? Prison Service? What about the armed forces?

If the general consensus is that they all deserve 17%, had anyone done calculations on what that would cost and how it would actually be paid.

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None of the above have had the reductions of nurses so that's not the general consensus. It's got to breaking point. As the article says it would take a 40% rise over the next 2 years, just for them to be paid the same as they were just over a decade ago.

How did the governments let this happen, I'm sure your as furious as me that it has.

All of the above should be pushing for near inflation rises if they have a union worth their salt. And the fact is this is obviously a starting point for negotiations, the counter offer was 5%. In reality I bet they settle with bellow inflation and the problem get deeper, until eventually nursing is a job that struggles to pay the bills

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

None of the above have had the reductions of nurses so that's not the general consensus. It's got to breaking point. As the article says it would take a 40% rise over the next 2 years, just for them to be paid the same as they were just over a decade ago.

How did the governments let this happen, I'm sure your as furious as me that it has.

All of the above should be pushing for near inflation rises if they have a union worth their salt. And the fact is this is obviously a starting point for negotiations, the counter offer was 5%. In reality I bet they settle with bellow inflation and the problem get deeper, until eventually nursing is a job that struggles to pay the bills

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Your first sentence, are you absolutely sure about that? In Scotland for instance it equates to an average 8% rise this year alone.

How do their wage increases over the last decade compare with the prison service for example?

If you think all the unions should be pushing for above inflation, where do you think the money should come from?

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Your first sentence, are you absolutely sure about that? In Scotland for instance it equates to an average 8% rise this year alone.

How do their wage increases over the last decade compare with the prison service for example?

If you think all the unions should be pushing for above inflation, where do you think the money should come from?

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Your right prison Service workers were actually one of the ones with a bigger drop than nurses. It's a disgrace seeing the hard job they do. They badly need a strong union, the train drivers show what can be done. A labour party isn't a labour party in my opinion if they don't think the erosion of public service wages need reversed.

What the tories want you to do is what your doing, what about this job or that. They pushed that during the train drivers strike. The fact is all jobs should fight not to get their wages greatly reduced and striking although a last resort is needed sometimes

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Your first sentence, are you absolutely sure about that? In Scotland for instance it equates to an average 8% rise this year alone.

How do their wage increases over the last decade compare with the prison service for example?

If you think all the unions should be pushing for above inflation, where do you think the money should come from?

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As for the other tory line, where does the money come from.

All governments have a budget. Imagine a pie chart with 100 slices that need put in. If wages need to go up the slices get bigger but they simply need put in first. You then add the slices starting from most important to least until you make harder decisions on the less important, for example new roads or culture. They are still important to a nation but you only do what you can once the main bills are paid, any competent government can and is tasked to do this

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

Your right prison Service workers were actually one of the ones with a bigger drop than nurses. It's a disgrace seeing the hard job they do. They badly need a strong union, the train drivers show what can be done. A labour party isn't a labour party in my opinion if they don't think the erosion of public service wages need reversed.

What the tories want you to do is what your doing, what about this job or that. They pushed that during the train drivers strike. The fact is all jobs should fight not to get their wages greatly reduced and striking although a last resort is needed sometimes

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So you were wrong on prison service. You absolutely sure with the others?

And please stop with the Tory line, it's a lazy arguement someone trots out when they have posted something incorrect and need to fall back on it.

You have no idea if I support the nurses or not, my question was simply is the general consensus that all public services should get 17% and if so, how do we propose it is paid for.

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Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7

As for the other tory line, where does the money come from.

All governments have a budget. Imagine a pie chart with 100 slices that need put in. If wages need to go up the slices get bigger but they simply need put in first. You then add the slices starting from most important to least until you make harder decisions on the less important, for example new roads or culture. They are still important to a nation but you only do what you can once the main bills are paid, any competent government can and is tasked to do this

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Thanks for that terribly condensing second paragraph, but for someone who just a post or two ago posted something factually incorrect, I'd hang back on the lectures.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

So you were wrong on prison service. You absolutely sure with the others?

And please stop with the Tory line, it's a lazy arguement someone trots out when they have posted something incorrect and need to fall back on it.

You have no idea if I support the nurses or not, my question was simply is the general consensus that all public services should get 17% and if so, how do we propose it is paid for.

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I won't say tory, I will say right wing attitude to compare jobs and have them competing.

I'll admit I was wrong I don't know the percentage dropped by every single public service. It completely doesn't matter if someone is getting shafted more than the nurse's, that's up to their union. Of course every public service should not get pay cuts and I've answered how it should be paid for, from the budget. It's literally the government's job and any left wing government should priorities workers rights and wages

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Thanks for that terribly condensing second paragraph, but for someone who just a post or two ago posted something factually incorrect, I'd hang back on the lectures.

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So do you think nurses and other public services should get effective pay cuts? You've no really said, I assume you do as your saying where does the money come from on repeat.