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Not fascist in the slightest.
https://t.co/7aTtXo7IFVQuote:
Home Office immigration enforcement officials are targeting places of worship to advise people with insecure status to return to their countries of origin.On three occasions, officials entered religious premises to take people direct to airports.
Larry Elliot again arguing that brexit didn't harm the uk 😳
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw
Whether that opportunity is seized or squandered is yet to be seen but the dire predictions didn’t happen
Not fascist in the least:
Quote:
The government has been accused of “gerrymandering” and “legalised voter suppression” by pushing ahead with mandatory voter ID for next year’s May local elections, amid renewed concerns that young people will be locked out of voting. At least six of the government-accepted IDs for voting are specifically targeted at older people, while almost none are aimed at younger people. New secondary legislation introduced by ministers to extend the Elections Act using Henry VIII powers – whereby Parliament is bypassed – include 310 references to the word “refusal” to grant a ballot paper.
@lloyd_rm told me: “I pushed very hard for ministers to accept other forms of ID,” Russell-Moyle said. But the decision was taken to exclude forms of ID “that are just as secure”. He added that “student ID cards or Railcards have been deemed not acceptable”
Wouldn't say fascist as I think most countries in Europe require ID. In they countries carrying ID is more common though. It's solving a problem that isn't there introducing it voter fraud is miniscule. You'd think more countries would go to electrical voting like Brazil, although that also requires you to prove identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I fear you are missing the point. It's not that there is a problem with voter fraud; there isn't. It's that this Tory Govt wants to disenfranchise those who might vote against them - e.g. the young voters - in the hope that this will increase the Tory majority in future elections. So they introduce the requirement for voter ID and then they determine that the "acceptable" forms of ID are typically those which only older voters have, and they put into law all the various reasons by which they can refuse a constituent's vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Are all the countries in Europe also fascist that require voter ID?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I think the UK is probably the only country in Europe that doesn't have some form of voter ID.
It's that this Tory Govt wants to disenfranchise those who might vote against them - e.g. the young voters - in the hope that this will increase the Tory majority in future elections. So they introduce the requirement for voter ID and then they determine that the "acceptable" forms of ID are typically those which only older voters have, and they put into law all the various reasons by which they can refuse a constituent's vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Do other European countries also have a requirement for citizens to have a national form of ID? if they do, then it's no big deal they should be asked to provide it when voting. In the UK we do not have a requirement for our citizens to carry ID. And we don't have a problem with voter fraud. So why introduce the need for ID when there's no problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
So acceptable ID will include things like a bus pass, something young people in Scotland will have in increasing numbers due to the "free" travel scheme. The plan is you can also get a voter identification card from your local council for free and they will be required to provide this by law, so the facts don't really back up your claims. Even expired photo ID will be acceptable. In fact 98% of people will already have the required ID. See below:Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
What identification will be acceptable?
There will be a wide range of photographic identification which will be acceptable.
These include:
Various concessionary travel passes
PASS cards
Ministry of Defence identity cards
Photocard parking permits issued as part of the Blue Badge scheme
Driver’s licenses
Passports
Free Voter Cards, provided by local authorities
Expired photographic identification will also be accepted if the photograph is of a good enough likeness to allow polling station staff to confirm the identity of the holder.
Legislation will also make clear that local authorities must provide a Voter Card free of charge where an elector does not have one of the approved forms of photo identification
What if I don’t have any of those documents?
Everyone eligible to vote will continue to be able to do so. New research published by the Government shows that 98% of electors already own a photographic document that is on the list of acceptable types of identification under this policy.
Local authorities will be required, by law, to provide a Voter Card free of charge where an elector does not have one of the approved forms of photo identification. A similar provision will be established for anonymous electors who will be able to apply for a free anonymous elector Voter Card should they wish to vote in person.
So, if they really wanted to do what you are suggesting they would not be doing the above would they.
The fact there were 595 instances of voter fraud in the year 2019 which includes and General, local, European and mayoral elections shows there is absolutely no need for it, there must be another reason behind why they are doing it imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
You either didn't read, or didn't understand my reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Do people think that there isn't any voter id already?
Next time you receive an electoral vote check it, you will find a number which corresponds with the electoral roll.
It might not be the same as having to show photo id but it links your address to the voting paper.
I did, you said the Tory's are doing it to increase their majority and will make it difficult for people to get the required ID.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I replied with the facts that things like a bus pass will be acceptable and it will become law that local councils will have to supply voter ID cards free of charge, and not forgetting 98% of people already have the required ID.
All things you think they would NOT be doing if it was all about stopping non Tory voters voting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
98%? And you believe that?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Look at the list of acceptable forms of ID - how many of them will be available to voters aged 18-24?
The very fact that someone has to go to the trouble of contacting the Council to obtain a voter card will ITSELF prove to be a barrier to voting to youngsters who already vote less than older folk because of their disenchantment with politicians and politics. Also - have you tried to contact the Council recently???
Did you read it, 98% ALREADY have the required ID. And yes I do believe it, unlike you I am not into conspiracy theories that think everything I don't agree with is fake or made up.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-great-britain
There is the link to the research, why do you think it's made up or fabricated? Which parts exactly aren't true?
If you were concerned about younger people then again the facts are not your friend.
"Younger people were more likely than the general population to hold a form of photo ID. Ninety-nine
per cent of those aged 18-29 held a form of photo ID, slightly higher than either those aged 30-69
(98%) or 70+ (98%). Additionally, those aged 85+ were less likely to hold photo ID that was
recognisable. Nine in ten (91%) did so, compared to well over nine in ten (95-98%) of younger age
groups."
Seems to work just fine in all other European countries. Maybe it's you that needs to stop your unconditional belief that everything and everyone is somehow out to get you or some other group.
You. Are. Missing. The. Point.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
We don't need it.
It will deter people from voting.
It will disproportionately favour the Tories.
So is it made up research or not? If you challenge the authenticity of something then at least come back with a reason why?Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
People need ID to pick up a parcel, having ID to vote when so many already have it isn't that big a deal. I thought something that aligns us with the rest of Europe would be welcomed not rejected.
Does it work in Northern Ireland where you need it?
Looking at the electoral commission website there have been 1,566 possible electoral fraud cases out of how many 10s of millions that voted since 2017, 9 people have been convicted, 10 received a caution and 3 are still under investigation, that's spanning 5 years and there is no evidence in the figures that it's in any way on the increaseQuote:
Originally Posted by James310
There is zero reason at all for this to be implemented
I guess that's the ones we know about. I don't think it's a widespread problem either, just don't agree with the narrative it's some Tory plot to stop people voting. The facts prove this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mon Dieu4
I wonder if people in France think it's some plot to stop people voting as well or they just get on with it and accept it's fairly normal around the world.
It’s fairly well established that the US Trumpian Republican Party are actively trying to engineer the voting population in key states, whether you call this ‘voter suppression’ as the DEmocrats do or ‘Rooting out voter fraud’ as the GOP do depends on your allegiances. It’s equally well established that the new Tory establishment of right wing nuts have very close ties with Steve Bannon and those Republicans close to Trump and even to the right of Trump, and now they are following almost step by step and word for word, their playbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
It’s fairly obvious what’s going on.
It will surely all go through an app in the next 10 years. Vaccine passports went well and things will only get better.
Yes it's all a big plot, that's why 98% of people already have the required ID and they are changing the law so local councils have to give out required ID free of charge for the 2% that may not have it. If people can use their bus pass as ID they are not doing a great job of voter suppression.Quote:
Originally Posted by hibsbollah
If anything is Trumpian it's the conspiracy theories going around about this when it's just bringing us in line with the rest of Europe and the world.
We’ll soon be a ‘papers please’ society.
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Most of Europe has been for years, ID has always had lots of opposition in the uk. Probably know everything about us due to our phones and Internet anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Show me your bus pass at once!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
One of the advantages imo of taking German citizenship was that I got an ID. It's just practical on so many accounts. I've only had positive experiences, one document to prove my identity and no faffing about with utility bills, driving licences or bus passes. The law in Germany is that I have a legal obligation to be able to identify myself, but that doesn't mean on the spot so there is no need for me to have my ID card with me at all times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Anyone who thinks that because the UK doesn't have ID cards means that they don't have to identify themselves in certain circumstances is kidding themselves.
https://twitter.com/thecommongreen/s..._SZ8dnF-11iOww
https://www.electoralcommission.org....ers-experienceQuote:
Reminder that voter ID without a free, mandatory, universal and automatically issued ID scheme is voter suppression.
The Government's pilot found that around 1% of voters reported that they didn't vote at all because they didn't have ID or disagreed with the ID scheme.Up to 0.7% of voters who did turn out were turned away for lack of ID and did not return.
At the 2019 General Election, 26 seats were won with majorities of less than 2%. At the 2017 GE, 50 seats were won with margins of <2%. In a tight national race, 2% voter suppression could well make the difference between Governments should it favour one party over another.
Quote:
We also asked respondents whether the requirement to show ID made them more or less likely to vote. Most people in the pilot scheme said it made no difference or made them more likely to vote (90%). However, a notable minority said it made them less likely to vote (3%), that they didn’t have ID (1%) or that they didn’t know (6%). Non-voters on 2 May were more likely than voters to say that they would be negatively affected or that they were unsure.
That's probably why the Electoral Commission are concerned. They are big on conspiracy theories.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
I do find it hilarious that people don’t want to have ID but have social media, mobile phone numbers and one password to access every single online account they’ve got.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Voter ID is bollocks though.
Agree with both parts really. On the first it's why I would piss my self laughing at the conspiracy nuts saying covid vaccine was about tracking us. People would put these comments up with their gps smart phones on a social media site...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
I think you're being a bit simplistic about the argument. I don't want voter ID - at least, not the currently proposed version of voter ID - not for myself, as I'd have no problem providing ID. The reason I don't want it is for all those who can't provide ID. And that has NOTHING to do with social media, phone numbers etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones28
https://bylinetimes.com/2022/11/07/v...-any-us-state/
Quote:
The Government has been accused of “gerrymandering” and “legalised voter suppression” by pushing ahead with mandatory voter ID for next year’s May local elections, amid renewed concerns that young people will be locked out of voting.
At the 2023 elections in England, voters will have to show ID or be turned away for the first time, following the passing of the Elections Act this April.
Election officials say they have not had enough time to prepare and are worried that thousands will be turned away at the polling station – triggering potential ballot box conflicts and allegations of unfairness.
The boss of retailer Next is urging the government to let more foreign workers into the UK to ease labour shortages.
Lord Wolfson, who was a prominent advocate of Brexit, said the UK's current immigration policy was crippling economic growth.
He said firms should pay a tax to employ foreign workers, to encourage them to recruit from the UK first.
The government said it had delivered on its promise to "take back control of our immigration system".
Lord Wolfson, a Conservative peer, told the BBC: "We have got people queuing up to come to this country to pick crops that are rotting in fields, to work in warehouses that otherwise wouldn't be operable, and we're not letting them in.
"And we have to take a different approach to economically productive migration."
He said that the government needed to decide whether the UK was an open free trading nation, or whether post-Brexit it wanted to be "fortress Britain", pulling up the drawbridge to foreign workers at significant cost to the economy.
"I think in respect of immigration, it's definitely not the Brexit that I wanted, or indeed, many of people who voted Brexit wanted," he said.
"it's definitely not the Brexit that I wanted"
Blimey. What is he on about. Brexit was never ever defined other than a few slogans at simpleton level.
If he had a vision of brexit in his head he sounds like a right divvy.
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He wants higher taxes for people not born here?[emoji102]Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack
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That's not what he said. He wants firms to pay a tax for employing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Why, I have no idea.
Whoever pays it, it’s a tax on foreigners. It makes people not born here more expensive to hire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibbyradge
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They are 2 different things, but yes, it does and I've no idea why he thinks it's necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Must be a sop to the hardliners. :dunno:
https://twitter.com/tshep42/status/1...ntM01ty6Q&s=08
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The brexiters complaining now are obviously the ones who were taken in by the con.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
The brexiters who are keeping schtum and don't want to talk about it are the con artists.
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The biggest brexiteer I personally know has moved from attacking everything and anything that critiques brexit as just "remoaners" through to everything being due to the "war" with Russia, and today, now that it's hitting him personally hard financially he freely talks about mistakes being made but "we" never knew about them at the time. Self interest is a powerful motivator and politics aside he's not all bad, even follows Hibs[emoji16]Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...88bf4bfc9c.jpg
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London has lost its crown as Europe’s biggest stock market to Paris
https://t.co/H6OAhelquB
The UK economy has been ‘permanently damaged by Brexit’, says former BOE policymaker Michael Saunders
https://twitter.com/BloombergTV/stat...nmwr2qDFAdzsgg
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
aww never mind, it still has the title of the money laundering capital of the world, we should be so proud
https://anons.ca/wp-content/uploads/...nd3srwpygM.jpg
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/unite..._medium=social
Interesting read. Does the UK fix this or does it continue it’s decline?
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Former Environment Sec George Eustice has spoken about the post-Brexit UK/Australia trade deal in the Commons. He says now no longer a minister: "I no longer have to put such a positive gloss on what was agreed...the Australia deal is not actually a very good trade deal for the UK."
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status...TeaVWgnWyiIJ4w
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/st...wJ8k48FSgl2WPA
Tories now admit trade deal with Oz was a disaster.
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Some incredible comments from Eustice
Quote:
"We did not actually need to give Australia nor New Zealand full liberalisation of beef and sheep. It was not in our economic interests to do so. And neither Australia nor New Zealand had anything to offer in return for such a grand concession."
Quote:
"In my view the best clause of this treaty we have with Australia, is the final clause, because it does gives any UK govt...an unbridled right to terminate and renegotiate the FTA at any time with just six months notice."
Quote:
"The UK went into this negotiation holding the strongest hand, the best cards but at some point in early summer 2021, the then Trade Secretary [Truss] took a decision to set an arbitrary target to conclude it by G7- from that moment we were on the backfoot."
Quote:
"In fact at one point the then Trade Secretary [Truss] asked her opposite number in Australia what he would need in order to conclude an agreement by G7, and of course he then set out his terms which eventually shaped the deal. We must never repeat that mistake."
**** me. That’s absolutely terrifying. So this was their flagship, “we told you it would be good” trade deal. And it’s been eviscerated in parliament by a former minister. And it was signed off by our former prime minister.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Is anyone still even admitting they voted for Brexit?
Liar. (not you g)Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
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https://news.stv.tv/politics/uk-econ...says-economist
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@ElectionMapsUK
·
In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?
Right to Leave: 32% (-3)
Wrong to Leave: 56% (+4)
Via @YouGov, 9-10 Nov.
Changes w/ 1-2 Nov.
Largest EVER lead for 'Wrong to Leave' (polled since Aug 2016)
That discussion we were having about voter ID, and how it's not designed to suppress the votes of the younger generation ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhxC_DBX...g&name=900x900
From OBR report:
"Our trade forecast reflects our assumption that Brexit will result in the UK’s trade intensity being 15% lower in the long run than if the UK had remained in the EU. The latest evidence suggests that Brexit has had a significant adverse impact on UK trade."
Given the OBR nearly always forecast more positively than the reality turns out to be I would guess it will be nearer 18-20%Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Have you ever heard a more pathetic response than this from Victoria Atkins?
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status...fNhFKXLCF0l8Ng
As pathetic as that is, it just fits into the "routinely pathetic" category these days. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Sadiq Khan puts his head above the parapet:
https://twitter.com/SadiqKhan/status...1XmNWlsnTWxHrQ
Quote:
Let’s be honest: Brexit isn’t working.British exporters are struggling, our living standards are falling and the UK is now the only G7 country with a smaller economy than before the pandemic.Unless we face up to the harm Brexit is causing we can't start to address it.
Is that good? Does it include FOM?Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
I don't think so (at this stage). Suspect it is flying a kite to see how it lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
It doesn't include FOM but I think it's the start of the softening up process.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
We're going home, we're going home, we're going, UK's going home
Don't worry everyone, Rishi believes in Brexit:
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/rishi...rexit-12752298
And as we all know, we just have to close our eyes and wish hard enough and all our problems will be solved.
And I thought this guy was supposed to be the serious Tory after all the banter under Truss in trashing the economy and costing us 10s of billions?
Had to laugh when a certain Jacob Rees Moggie said such a thing would negate all the trade agreements that had already been agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Oh look another business packs up in the UK because of Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/21/200-jobs-at-risk-as-icelandic-fish-processing-firm-pulls-out-of-uk-brexit-coronavirus
Brexit - analysis of post Brexit trade deals impact on GDP compared with Brexit impact itself:
https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/sta...TEkQU5oSQ5CEOg
This is a crime against the citizens of the UK, and those responsible should be in prison.
Here's the German ambassador to the UK, concerned about declining levels of trade between Germany and the UK:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fit1o5sX...jpg&name=largeQuote:
UK is Germany’s third export market, but we are concerned that trade between the UK and Germany has continuously declined since the Brexit referendum. Britain has traditionally been Germany’s fifth largest trading partner. In 2022 UK will drop out of the list of the TOP 10 (blue line below).
https://t.co/rrqGtyKV4B
Quote:
David Frost (not that one) claiming that trade is not GDP and that trade isn't linked to productivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/st...ZcrKEKqKQ&s=19
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Couldn't we just cancel all recognised methods of benchmarking GDP globally and start using the sunlituplandsometer?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Even if the inventor of said uplands has lost the latest in a long line of jobs and moved on to earning £250k upwards for speeches to anyone who will listen whilst those he has left behind in the er......well......uplands....struggle a bit
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When I was a kid the economy was measured at the end of the news by showing the "balance of payments", then showing the footsy thingmwy which meant nowt to most was normalised. Then they started showing how well the country was doing by measuring "sales on the High Street", which was mental as a lot of that was tick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonhibby
Those things were shown on telly, sometimes every night.
What do they show at the end of the news now as the economic thermometer?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
The weather?
Yeah. Heat banks. And food banks. The measure of how the country is faring.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1875godsgift
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poor guy :agree: Wishaw business forced to stop all trade with EU due to Brexit | The National
A SCOTTISH firm has revealed how it was forced to abandon all trade with Europe after Brexit hammered the “nail into the coffin” of its export business.
Andrew Duff, who runs butchers MacDuff 1890, said it’s now easier to export to Hong Kong than it is to Europe
He said: “Brexit has, and will continue to be, an unmitigated disaster for households and businesses across these islands – reducing Scottish exports by a staggering £2.2 billion in the last year alone.
Disaster? That can't be right? Didn't Dim Lizzy do something with cheese and Bozo waved a kipper about on a stage somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Surely these more than offset actual trade losses otherwise where's the benefit?
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It's reasonable to ask why are exports easier to Hong Kong than Europe?Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
Hong Kong is a less regulated market?Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
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Yes and it's also reasonable to ask why its so disproportionately difficult to export to our closest and main market.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Would you like to explain why that is?
Agreed. This is absolutely the main thing to take away from this story.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
:brickwall
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...P=share_btn_tw
Brexit putting up food prices.
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I can't think of anything where Brexit has reduced prices!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Why is it not a reasonable question? If it's easier to export to 6,000 milers away there must be barriers. Is it the UK or EU that are putting them up. It's really important in how we move forward to understand the actual impediments.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
We had the ability to export to 22 miles away with no unnecessary paperwork no red tape no delays and we gave it all away for no reason. Why did we do that? That's the only reasonable question here.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Not really. We can look backwards all we want, but to carve a route forward we mast understand the blockages and work out how to address them.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Join the EU and it all goes away 😁Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Fine. But given that's not on the table (and even if it was it would take years)we need to address these issues now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Don't be daft.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
We only need to think positive and make up some three word slogans and it'll all be fine. I'll start.
**** the jocks.
Sunlit UplandsQuote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status...bFG76SMcg&s=08
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It will be a lot quicker with an independent Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
#getindependencedone 😉
Where's the lifeboat?Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022...en-oireachtas/
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Why would it take years?Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Because we would have to meet the accession criteria which includes a number of financial tests. https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-history/joining-eu_enQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
But before that we would need a currency and a functioning central bank.
I'm sure this could all be resolved by negotiation and discussion, if we could only put forward a serious statesman to represent the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
I know, it's quite thrilling to look forward to these things.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
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Maybe you should get out more?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Well it can all be resolved (I presume you mean by a Scottish Government). But it will take time and some pain (which might well be worth it).Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt