Atlantic League

I’d hope hibs would be all over this set up,Scottish football is the pits let’s face it.back to that two horse race for cups and corruption.it geez me the boak seeing sevco stroll through the season in Europe and league.
Football is evolving and hibs are renowned for pioneering in this country,the money sounds tasty and edinburgh is a perfect city for a sporting adventure like this.
I think we could really grow in a league like this.

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Originally Posted by tonyrougier123

I’d hope hibs would be all over this set up,Scottish football is the pits let’s face it.back to that two horse race for cups and corruption.it geez me the boak seeing sevco stroll through the season in Europe and league.
Football is evolving and hibs are renowned for pioneering in this country,the money sounds tasty and edinburgh is a perfect city for a sporting adventure like this.
I think we could really grow in a league like this.

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Grow to what though? What’s the end goal? Scottish cup would be dead, European football would be dead, so we could have all the money you like (even though the bigger clubs would still always have more than us), but it would be catastrophic on the game in Scotland (which isn’t the ‘pits’ as you call it) and for that reason I’m out.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

Grow to what though? What’s the end goal? Scottish cup would be dead, European football would be dead, so we could have all the money you like (even though the bigger clubs would still always have more than us), but it would be catastrophic on the game in Scotland (which isn’t the ‘pits’ as you call it) and for that reason I’m out.

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:agree: youth developement out the window if we do this and the other clubs will need to downsize significantly, just when the National team is getting good again.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

The quality of football you will be watching will be a lot higher though. And I personally think Hibs have great potential in that set up.

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The quality of player in the English EPL is higher than that in the SPFL, so by that logic I should be watching down south and not Hibs. Other than a couple of attempts when it re-started after lockdown, I can't remember when I last watched it. Mind you, I only watch our games and not others in Scotland.

We'd have the same potential as most of the other clubs in any Atlantic League, so the odds are against us realising it. Meanwhile, we'd be even further behind the big guns. At present there are two much larger clubs and two the same size as us - the proposed league would have half a dozen much larger and everyone else the same size.

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Originally Posted by tonyrougier123

I’d hope hibs would be all over this set up,Scottish football is the pits let’s face it.back to that two horse race for cups and corruption.it geez me the boak seeing sevco stroll through the season in Europe and league.
Football is evolving and hibs are renowned for pioneering in this country,the money sounds tasty and edinburgh is a perfect city for a sporting adventure like this.
I think we could really grow in a league like this.

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So instead of a two-horse league race that doesn't involve Hibs you'd prefer see a five/six-horse league race that doesn't involve Hibs. Instead of Hibs being one of three/four teams with a realistic chance of challenging those two horses for a cup you'd prefer us to be one of a dozen teams who regard a quarter final as an achievement. Instead of Hibs being one of three/four teams with a realistic chance of a European place, you'd prefer to see Hibs as one of a dozen teams hoping to grab the remaining European spot not claimed by the big five/six.

The proponents of this Atlantic League need to remember that it isn't being proposed for the exclusive benefit of Hibs. Those same benefits are on offer to every other club that gets an invitation, and they have as much of an opportunity to capitalise on the benefits as we do. We won't have a divine right to finish in the top third but we will have plenty of opportunity to finish in the bottom third.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

Grow to what though? What’s the end goal? Scottish cup would be dead, European football would be dead, so we could have all the money you like (even though the bigger clubs would still always have more than us), but it would be catastrophic on the game in Scotland (which isn’t the ‘pits’ as you call it) and for that reason I’m out.

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You’ve got to think out the box a wee bit on this idea Sam,Scotland is now back to a two team horse race,sevco getting stronger and more financial clout as a consequence.maybe I’ve missed something but why would European football be dead?.
The SFA is over a barrel between the old firm and sky and that shows no signs of changing,basically if it doesn’t suit Celtic and rangers change is never happening.the set up is stale and even during a pandemic they never found the guile to freshen it up.
The Atlantic league might introduce new cups new challenges,I’ve seen hibs win three cups in my lifetime hardly a fruitful return likely to be missed by many,I must admit the hardest bit would be saying goodbye to the Scottish cup,apart from that what would you miss?edinburgh derby??
Could still play them no problem,they might go to this league too.

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Originally Posted by Eyrie

The quality of player in the English EPL is higher than that in the SPFL, so by that logic I should be watching down south and not Hibs. Other than a couple of attempts when it re-started after lockdown, I can't remember when I last watched it. Mind you, I only watch our games and not others in Scotland.

We'd have the same potential as most of the other clubs in any Atlantic League, so the odds are against us realising it. Meanwhile, we'd be even further behind the big guns. At present there are two much larger clubs and two the same size as us - the proposed league would have half a dozen much larger and everyone else the same size.


So instead of a two-horse league race that doesn't involve Hibs you'd prefer see a five/six-horse league race that doesn't involve Hibs. Instead of Hibs being one of three/four teams with a realistic chance of challenging those two horses for a cup you'd prefer us to be one of a dozen teams who regard a quarter final as an achievement. Instead of Hibs being one of three/four teams with a realistic chance of a European place, you'd prefer to see Hibs as one of a dozen teams hoping to grab the remaining European spot not claimed by the big five/six.

The proponents of this Atlantic League need to remember that it isn't being proposed for the exclusive benefit of Hibs. Those same benefits are on offer to every other club that gets an invitation, and they have as much of an opportunity to capitalise on the benefits as we do. We won't have a divine right to finish in the top third but we will have plenty of opportunity to finish in the bottom third.

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Of course every team would have the same chance to capitalise,that’s a good thing.I think we have huge potential to grow in a league competing with rival European city’s as a place for players to play football,right now a lot of players wouldn’t come up to play in the Scottish set up.I think we would benefit in that respect.

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Originally Posted by tonyrougier123

You’ve got to think out the box a wee bit on this idea Sam,Scotland is now back to a two team horse race,sevco getting stronger and more financial clout as a consequence.maybe I’ve missed something but why would European football be dead?.
The SFA is over a barrel between the old firm and sky and that shows no signs of changing,basically if it doesn’t suit Celtic and rangers change is never happening.the set up is stale and even during a pandemic they never found the guile to freshen it up.
The Atlantic league might introduce new cups new challenges,I’ve seen hibs win three cups in my lifetime hardly a fruitful return likely to be missed by many,I must admit the hardest bit would be saying goodbye to the Scottish cup,apart from that what would you miss?edinburgh derby??
Could still play them no problem,they might go to this league too.

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Pretty sure the proposal is to continue in the Scottish Cup.


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Originally Posted by tonyrougier123

Of course every team would have the same chance to capitalise,that’s a good thing.I think we have huge potential to grow in a league competing with rival European city’s as a place for players to play football,right now a lot of players wouldn’t come up to play in the Scottish set up.I think we would benefit in that respect.

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It would allow us to compete with teams from the championship for players. The international aspect of the league would also attract a higher level of sponsorship to the club.


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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Pretty sure the proposal is to continue in the Scottish Cup.


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If that’s the case I’d like it even more ozy

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

It would allow us to compete with teams from the championship for players. The international aspect of the league would also attract a higher level of sponsorship to the club.


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Your on the same page as me ozy on this subject👍🏻
I think it would be a very good footballing environment for a club like hibs to grow in the game.

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Originally Posted by tonyrougier123

You’ve got to think out the box a wee bit on this idea Sam,Scotland is now back to a two team horse race,sevco getting stronger and more financial clout as a consequence.maybe I’ve missed something but why would European football be dead?.
The SFA is over a barrel between the old firm and sky and that shows no signs of changing,basically if it doesn’t suit Celtic and rangers change is never happening.the set up is stale and even during a pandemic they never found the guile to freshen it up.
The Atlantic league might introduce new cups new challenges,I’ve seen hibs win three cups in my lifetime hardly a fruitful return likely to be missed by many,I must admit the hardest bit would be saying goodbye to the Scottish cup,apart from that what would you miss?edinburgh derby??
Could still play them no problem,they might go to this league too.

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Most countries in Europe are a 2 team horse race.

Have you seen some of the teams proposed for this league Norkopping, Esbjerg, Valarenga, Hammarby a team from ROI. It hardly gets the juices flowing.

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Originally Posted by gorgiegreens

Most countries in Europe are a 2 team horse race.

Have you seen some of the teams proposed for this league Norkopping, Esbjerg, Valarenga, Hammarby a team from ROI. It hardly gets the juices flowing.

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Aye, it not like it the cream of european teams. Rangers and Celtic would still dominate this league just as they do here, Maybe throw in the challange of FC Copenhagen


Only thing it got going for it is money.

Re the apparent proposals
1) Uefa, sfa, spfl on board
2) Scottish Cup not abandoned
3) Hibs would be one of the best supported clubs in this league, only Rangers and Celtic have 3 times our support. Other bigger ones are by 50% or so. With good management , recruitment , development we can be competing at top end. It’s up to us to do well.
4) 350 mill euros on average per season for 20 clubs Iwould mean around 10-18 mill per season for players, wow what could Jack do with that?
5) The proposals I think still contain entry into ECL or EL or new Conference league. I’d imagine plenty qualifying places.
6) of course other cross border leagues will emerge so that needs taken into consideration
7) it’s not explicit in the leaked proposals but there is normally talk of B teams remaining in domestic leagues . I think that highly likley as it will help fund the Spfl and support remaining clubs

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Originally Posted by chippy

Re the apparent proposals
1) Uefa, sfa, spfl on board
2) Scottish Cup not abandoned
3) Hibs would be one of the best supported clubs in this league, only Rangers and Celtic have 3 times our support. Other bigger ones are by 50% or so. With good management , recruitment , development we can be competing at top end. It’s up to us to do well.
4) 350 mill euros on average per season for 20 clubs Iwould mean around 10-18 mill per season for players, wow what could Jack do with that?
5) The proposals I think still contain entry into ECL or EL or new Conference league. I’d imagine plenty qualifying places.
6) of course other cross border leagues will emerge so that needs taken into consideration
7) it’s not explicit in the leaked proposals but there is normally talk of B teams remaining in domestic leagues . I think that highly likley as it will help fund the Spfl and support remaining clubs

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Where have those numbers you quote come from?

Original reports were talking about £900m over 6 years.

I would be in favour of giving something like this a shot personally. Scottish football has been in decline for 30 years and we're at the stage where it would take something dramatic like this to get back to anything like the successes of the 80s and earlier.

I don't think this would be a silver bullet that would see us suddenly playing in one of the best leagues in Europe by any means, but it could put us on a par with the second tier or European leagues - Belgium, Netherlands, France, Portugal, Russia etc. And if other leagues are going to merge - e.g. a Benelux league we will need to move with the times to avoid falling further behind.

Clearly there is TV money in Scandinavia - we saw it with the standard of team Molde had a few years ago. But, like us, their league has suffered relative to the big four leagues.

Ultimately there are only five teams in Scotland that draw anything like the support needed to be self sustainable in the long run. This year there are only four in the top division. Everyone else is living beyond their means based on away gates from the bigger teams. Pooling our resources to create something a bit better makes sense. With a home gate of 15,000 plus we should be stronger in European terms than we are. But if we're honest the limitations of our league hold us back and have probably contributed to our domestic failures over the years as well, we've been dragged down to the level of the league at times so to speak.

I know that the traditionalists and die hards on the forum are opposed to any kind of change, we've seen that before when summer football has been discussed. But is the league we're in now really that great - what is it that we gain from playing Hamilton, Livingston and St. Johnstone three or four times a season that makes trying something different such a non-starter for people? Especially if the Scottish Cup is retained, as it absolutely should be?

And, controversial though this might be to say, the die hard fans who have been going week in week out for decades might say this would be the end for them, but in reality they'll be the first people in the queue for season tickets regardless of what league we're in.

Anyway, it will probably never happen, but I would be all for it and I think Hibs should make sure we're involved if anything like this is to happen in the next few years.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Where have those numbers you quote come from?

Original reports were talking about £900m over 6 years.

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That’s the numbers quoted over the last 2 days. Don’t know if Cormack said it or what, just going with what I read. Maybe it’s been upped to tempt Celtic back?

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Originally Posted by mayo hibee

I would be in favour of giving something like this a shot personally. Scottish football has been in decline for 30 years and we're at the stage where it would take something dramatic like this to get back to anything like the successes of the 80s and earlier.

I don't think this would be a silver bullet that would see us suddenly playing in one of the best leagues in Europe by any means, but it could put us on a par with the second tier or European leagues - Belgium, Netherlands, France, Portugal, Russia etc. And if other leagues are going to merge - e.g. a Benelux league we will need to move with the times to avoid falling further behind.

Clearly there is TV money in Scandinavia - we saw it with the standard of team Molde had a few years ago. But, like us, their league has suffered relative to the big four leagues.

Ultimately there are only five teams in Scotland that draw anything like the support needed to be self sustainable in the long run. This year there are only four in the top division. Everyone else is living beyond their means based on away gates from the bigger teams. Pooling our resources to create something a bit better makes sense. With a home gate of 15,000 plus we should be stronger in European terms than we are. But if we're honest the limitations of our league hold us back and have probably contributed to our domestic failures over the years as well, we've been dragged down to the level of the league at times so to speak.

I know that the traditionalists and die hards on the forum are opposed to any kind of change, we've seen that before when summer football has been discussed. But is the league we're in now really that great - what is it that we gain from playing Hamilton, Livingston and St. Johnstone three or four times a season that makes trying something different such a non-starter for people? Especially if the Scottish Cup is retained, as it absolutely should be?

And, controversial though this might be to say, the die hard fans who have been going week in week out for decades might say this would be the end for them, but in reality they'll be the first people in the queue for season tickets regardless of what league we're in.

Anyway, it will probably never happen, but I would be all for it and I think Hibs should make sure we're involved if anything like this is to happen in the next few years.

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Well thought out post, thanks

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Originally Posted by chippy

That’s the numbers quoted over the last 2 days. Don’t know if Cormack said it or what, just going with what I read. Maybe it’s been upped to tempt Celtic back?

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Upping it by over £200m a year from what was, reportedly, on the table originally. Really can’t see that being the case to be honest.

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Originally Posted by B.H.F.C

Where have those numbers you quote come from?

Original reports were talking about £900m over 6 years.

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I feel like 900m over 6 years is pretty underwhelming. There is much more potential there if you join the right countries together.

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Originally Posted by Michael

I feel like 900m over 6 years is pretty underwhelming. There is much more potential there if you join the right countries together.

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With the clubs that are been spoken about, I’m not so sure.

Could it be worth more that the setup we’re currently part of? Definitely. But talk of us getting amounts, yearly, that outweigh our current turnover I just can’t see.

Selling the soul of Scottish Football for money.
What happens once Celtic and Rangers have had enough of the Atlantic League and leave for a more lucrative amalgamation?
Answer - Hibs and all the other wee teams are left to play amongst themselves in the twilight zone of an Atlantic League folk are no longer interested in.

The SPFL is the 7th best supported top league in Europe and talk of decline is inaccurate.
Once national leagues are broken up there is no going back. Scottish football ruined forever for short term gain.
The thin end of the wedge in the Globalisation of football.

What if it goes well, Ron Gordon as owner would benefit big time but after another couple of rationalisations Hibs have corporate owners and play in a 30,000 capacity stadium that they share with Hearts or slightly worse, play in a 50,000 stadium as Edinburgh United.
Fingers crossed that this is resisted.

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Originally Posted by CMurdoch

Selling the soul of Scottish Football for money.
What happens once Celtic and Rangers have had enough of the Atlantic League and leave for a more lucrative amalgamation?
Answer - Hibs and all the other wee teams are left to play amongst themselves in the twilight zone of an Atlantic League folk are no longer interested in.

The SPFL is the 7th best supported top league in Europe and talk of decline is inaccurate.
Once national leagues are broken up there is no going back. Scottish football ruined forever for short term gain.
The thin end of the wedge in the Globalisation of football.

What if it goes well, Ron Gordon as owner would benefit big time but after another couple of rationalisations Hibs have corporate owners and play in a 30,000 capacity stadium that they share with Hearts or slightly worse, play in a 50,000 stadium as Edinburgh United.
Fingers crossed that this is resisted.

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Bit of a jump from joining this league to merging with Hearts, creating an Edinburgh United and building a 50,000 seater stadium.

The whole idea of this league is pie in the sky but that scenario is another level.

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Originally Posted by CMurdoch

Selling the soul of Scottish Football for money.
What happens once Celtic and Rangers have had enough of the Atlantic League and leave for a more lucrative amalgamation?
Answer - Hibs and all the other wee teams are left to play amongst themselves in the twilight zone of an Atlantic League folk are no longer interested in.

The SPFL is the 7th best supported top league in Europe and talk of decline is inaccurate.
Once national leagues are broken up there is no going back. Scottish football ruined forever for short term gain.
The thin end of the wedge in the Globalisation of football.

What if it goes well, Ron Gordon as owner would benefit big time but after another couple of rationalisations Hibs have corporate owners and play in a 30,000 capacity stadium that they share with Hearts or slightly worse, play in a 50,000 stadium as Edinburgh United.
Fingers crossed that this is resisted.

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We've trying to do that for years, its a no go if Celtic and Rangers are not in the mix!!!
If Celtic and Rangers left Scottish Football, I feel the interest in the Scottish Game would all but die from a TV point of view!!!!

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Originally Posted by CMurdoch

after another couple of rationalisations Hibs have corporate owners and play in a 30,000 capacity stadium that they share with Hearts or slightly worse, play in a 50,000 stadium as Edinburgh United.

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This outcome seems unlikely, to be fair.

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Originally Posted by Since90+2

Bit of a jump from joining this league to merging with Hearts, creating an Edinburgh United and building a 50,000 seater stadium.

The whole idea of this league is pie in the sky but that scenario is another level.

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But that's progress right? Atlantic League, European Super League? Hibs can't compete on their own so will need to merge and combine resources. It sounds a bit of a jump but that's the natural progression no? The reason why these half baked American businessman coming to Scotland is becoming clear.

I’ve never warmed to the idea of this type of league. However, I’m wondering what will be left of Scottish football if we don’t start getting fans back in the grounds. Teams are struggling at all levels of our game, with the likelihood that some will be hitting a financial brick wall soon enough.

I wonder if Uefa or the SFA would sanction a league like this? It’s an obvious challenge to their own plans for extended competition just recently announced.

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Originally Posted by Ozyhibby

Pretty sure the proposal is to continue in the Scottish Cup.


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They can plan on continuing the Scottish cup if they like, fact is those we leave behind would basically be reduced to semi pro level. There would be very little money in the game. A fair number of clubs would go to the wall and the Scottish cup would be meaningless.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

They can plan on continuing the Scottish cup if they like, fact is those we leave behind would basically be reduced to semi pro level. There would be very little money in the game. A fair number of clubs would go to the wall and the Scottish cup would be meaningless.

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I don't think that would happen - their budget would be reduced so the wage bill would need to come down, but if teams in the Championship can remain full time professional I don't see why the remaining Premier Division teams couldn't.

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Originally Posted by hibbysam

They can plan on continuing the Scottish cup if they like, fact is those we leave behind would basically be reduced to semi pro level. There would be very little money in the game. A fair number of clubs would go to the wall and the Scottish cup would be meaningless.

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I think your post illustrates why if this happens, Hibs have to try and find a way on board

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Originally Posted by mayo hibee

This outcome seems unlikely, to be fair.

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Is it.
Once you are allowed to break up the national leagues to create other amalgamations everything is possible and nothing is off the table.
Enough is never enough for business men. They are always chasing a bigger pay day and that means further rationalisation of leagues and selling clubs on to bigger and bigger owners.

We watch Hibs, we don't own it so have no real control over what happens to it. Ron Gordon is a business man and Hibs is his business. He will seek to build it up and sell it to another party for a big profit. That owner if they are again not Hibs supporters will try the same thing.

Importantly the only thing that gives us a degree of control of the club is remaining in a Scottish League because that restricts how much profit can be made by an owner. Lose that control factor and the genie is out the bottle and Edinburgh United is eventually possible which would mean no more Hibs and no more Easter Road.