Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by LancsHibs

What's 'Bommer' Brown's thoughts on the matter:greengrin Are we going to see another hilarious gathering on the steps of Ibrox:lolrangers:

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In a scene right out the bier kellers of Munich in the 1920s, Bomber Brown addressed his loyal supporters in the Loudon Tavern today (simply the best by the way - or the best for the simple, I can't quite remember.

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Show some respect, show some respect, eh, the sit-you-ation has become such that wiz have no got any option bit tae act now tae save the club that we love and hold so dear. There will be no vandalism, no bevvying......and absolutely NO SURRENDER.....(aw ***** ah wisnae meant tae say that, of course the boyz is entitled tae a bevvy). Eh, show some respect now.

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Good bit from the BBC Radio Scotland morning show's business section, interview with Justin Urquhart-Stewart about the Rangers IPO.
Worth a listen, from 2h 36m into the show here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01n0z67

"So, a risky investment, then?" "Very risky".

Malcolm Murray, Chairman: “Charles has done a great job to bring the Club back from the brink of extinction. We now move on to the next stage which is full recovery and growth.


Their club died, but we still read this nonsense. :confused: The shrinking tabloid media won't print the fact through fear, and the tv networks won't say it becuase of laptop loyal intimidation. But they DIED. Their club died in 2012. Kaput, done and dusted, over and out. This Sevco outfit are not Rangers Football Club. If they want that honour there is £150m of debt to service first.

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Originally Posted by FalkirkHibby

Which he (or his mysteron backers) haven't paid for yet. I don't think Whyte's pals D&P have received a dime, or any creditors. So "working capital" also equals the money he needs to pay off D&P, 100%. Buy new players my bahookie, Green.

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Anyway of getting this confirmed ?

This is from the FT:

Ship of Theseus seeks flotation -Bruce Elder

Those who argue for a further relaxation of the LSE’s listing rules may want to note the following announcement:

Rangers, the Scottish football club, today announces its intention to seek Admission to the AIM market of the London Stock Exchange.
Rangers intends to raise up to £20 million through an institutional investor placing and limited public offering. The funds raised will be used for strengthening the player squad, improving and developing the Club’s properties and facilities, as well as providing additional working capital. It is anticipated that Admission will become effective before the end of the year.

For those with only a passing interest in football’s backwaters, here’s a summary. The Rangers Football Club PLC awaits liquidation having failed to pay a tax bill just shy of £95m. Its assets were bought by an investment consortium fronted by Charles Green, who moved them to a holding company formed for the purpose in May 2012. He paid £5.5m.
Now, five months later, Mr Green’s consortium is seeking to raise up to £20m for an unspecified stake of these assets. Taking as an imperfect benchmark the £33.4m market cap of Glasgow neighbours Celtic, that target would suggest floating about 50-60 per cent of the equity. (Such a valuation would certainly line up with some tinfoil-hatted reports that Mr Green’s investor cabal had taken 22.69m shares and planned to issue the same again at the IPO).
So what has changed since May for £5.5m of assets to become a business worth circa £33m? There is a little more certainty now about Rangers’ competitive position (third in Scottish football’s fourth-tier league) and a little more clarity on the obstacles faced (which include but are not limited to a judicial inquiry, a player transfer ban and a criminal investigation into its previous owner).
Also worth noting, from an investor perspective, is the fact that Rangers Football Club Ltd has no corporate history whatsoever. The club may have been founded in 1872 but the company it has hermit-crabbed into has only existed since May and has never published a single page of accounts.
On Aim, that’s fine. There’s no requirement for companies to demonstrate a trading record, with the burden falling on the Nomad to weed out all potential cash transfers from the gullible to the cynical. As LSE’s briefing document puts it:

[A] Nomad would expect that a strong AIM candidate (other than a pre-revenue business or perhaps a natural resources business) has the following characteristics:
* a record of sustained growth over at least three years
* forecasts that show sales continuing to grow
* a record that compares favourably with its peer group.

It looks tricky to class Rangers Football Club Ltd as a “pre revenue business.” Nor can it be easily classed as showing growth over recent years, given it either did not exist or was put into liquidation. Mr Green’s stated justification for the float — “strengthening the player squad, improving and developing the Club’s properties and facilities, as well as providing additional working capital” — is also open to question: Rangers cannot sign a player until January 2014 and its 51,000-seater stadium looks adequate in a league where the average attendance last year was 475.
Some suspicious types may assume that the £5.5m Mr Green’s consortium paid to buy Rangers was actually a loan that the cash call will help pay down. But, with Mr Green today referring to the company as “debt-free,” such suspicions are surely misplaced.
Over to you, official Nomad Cenkos Securities. We await the IPO prospectus with interest.
Related link:
Rangers plans return with £20m float – FT
This entry was posted by Bryce Elder on
Thursday October 11th, 2012 11:00. Tagged with IPO, Rangers FC.

...which prompted me to look up Ship of Theseus on Wikipedia, and it turns out that classical philosophers were considering the Sevco identity dilemma in ancient times:

Ship of Theseus

The Ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus' paradox, or various variants, notably grandfather's axe and (in the UK) Trigger's Broom (based upon the BBC sitcom Only Fools and Horses) is a paradox that raises the question of whether an object which has had all its component parts replaced remains fundamentally the same object.
The paradox is most notably recorded by Plutarch in Life of Theseus from the late 1st century. Plutarch asked whether a ship which was restored by replacing all its wooden parts remained the same ship. The paradox had been discussed by more ancient philosophers such as Heraclitus, Socrates, and Plato prior to Plutarch's writings; and more recently by Thomas Hobbes and John Locke. This problem is "a model for the philosophers"; some say "it remained the same, some saying it did not remain the same".^[1]

Green stated at the start that the £5.5m was a loan.

Apart from paying himself off, I wonder if any of it will go to CW ?

Would it be morally wrong to request a prospectus (thereby incurring costs to the company issuing shares) without having any intention of subscribing?

:whistle:

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

Would it be morally wrong to request a prospectus (thereby incurring costs to the company issuing shares) without having any intention of subscribing?

:whistle:

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Terribly wrong.... that's a really bad thing to do when they are counting every penny.
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When you apply..... could you post the link to save me searching for it? :greengrin

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19907314

Where do these clowns get their ideas from..... SPL is managing fine without Newco/Sevco/Rangers or whatever name they are calling themselves today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19907314

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Originally Posted by BBC

Ex-Rangers director Paul Murray claims Scottish football power shift

Former Rangers director Paul Murray has claimed that the Ibrox side competing in the Third Division has led to a power shift in Scottish football.

Murray, whose Blue Knights group led an unsuccessful bid to buy the club in the summer, believes the Scottish Premier League is less powerful than before.

And he thinks more power has moved to the Scottish Football League with Rangers as a member club.

"The dynamics of power have changed a bit from the SPL to the SFL," he said.

"The SFL have now, perversely, got quite a bit of power because they have now got Rangers as one of their member clubs.

And Murray believes that this power shift could lead to structural change in the Scottish game.

"And I think that's what ultimately might actually lead to some change," he said.

"Because of the fact you've then got two bodies who've got one half of the Old Firm in each of the bodies that might also lead to change that we think we need."

The prospect of an expanded SPL emerged in a package of reforms put to Scottish Football League clubs just two days before their vote on admitting Rangers to the body.

Streamlined governance, a fairer distribution of revenue and play-offs for access to the SPL were also proposed in a bid to sweeten a deal that would see the new Ibrox club granted entry to Division One.

However, SFL clubs chose to admit Rangers to Division Three.

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So basically, other SFL clubs are suddenly better because The Rangers are present in their league. :rolleyes:

Somebody should tell him that its got nothing to do with other clubs being better, but more to do with The Rangers being so utterly *****, that they can't beat teams 1000x less their value.

I think there's a strategy in the offing here. Green has been rubbishing the SPL and SFA and has vowed that Sevco will never play in the SPL while crawling to the SFL despite them 'banishing' his club into the bottom division. Now we have another Rangers man talking about power shifting from the SPL to the SFL.

Are Sevco planning a power struggle over Scottish Football? Maybe as a plan B?

You have to admit that the Huns demotion has been successful. Never seen so many folk wearing SFL3 replica shirts before :wink:

They can go and fling ***** at themselves. They're in such financial dire straits that they're forced to raise money in the stock exchange equivalent of Wonga.com and they think they can win a power struggle over Scottish Football. Delusional.

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Originally Posted by Hibs7

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19907314

Where do these clowns get their ideas from..... SPL is managing fine without Newco/Sevco/Rangers or whatever name they are calling themselves today.

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I see Dungcaster says the SPL has coped - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19904760 - what happended to Armageddon then ya prick?!? Or was that the other erse Reagan?

How those two are still in jobs is beyond me!

Aye the SFL clubs are better...



Than Rangers!

Charles Green on sky sports news saying money raised from stockmarket will be used to create a massive superstore and a cafe ha ha ha.

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Originally Posted by HH81

Charles Green on sky sports news saying money raised from stockmarket will be used to create a massive superstore and a cafe ha ha ha.

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Like what Asda has? Ta ta Castle Greyskull.

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Originally Posted by Seveno

Green stated at the start that the £5.5m was a loan.

Apart from paying himself off, I wonder if any of it will go to CW ?

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Bomber Brown statement from the Mordor steps needed methinks. And where did that half senile pensioner's money go again, Bomber? A case for Taggart.

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Originally Posted by TQM

I see Dungcaster says the SPL has coped - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19904760 - what happended to Armageddon then ya prick?!? Or was that the other erse Reagan?

How those two are still in jobs is beyond me!

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Couldn't agree more G :agree:

Fannies.

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Originally Posted by Geo_1875

They can go and fling ***** at themselves. They're in such financial dire straits that they're forced to raise money in the stock exchange equivalent of Wonga.com and they think they can win a power struggle over Scottish Football. Delusional.

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Yeah, just who are they trying to kid with this planned £20m flotation? They tried this when the club were having success and raised next to sod-all. They're a joke. Scottish football is a joke with the circus acts in power at the SPL and SFA.

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Originally Posted by Sir Alf R

Terribly wrong.... that's a really bad thing to do when they are counting every penny.
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When you apply..... could you post the link to save me searching for it? :greengrin

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https://www.rangersshareoffer.com/fo...ntDetails.aspx

:wink:

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

https://www.rangersshareoffer.com/fo...ntDetails.aspx

:wink:

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enquiry submitted:greengrin

Bill McMurdo's view here.

https://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/20.../#comment-2829

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Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith

enquiry submitted:greengrin

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How utterly childish...did you get a response like this


Thank you, your interest has now been registered. We will send you an email in due course with details of how and when you can apply to invest in Rangers Football Club.
Reference: 00000008485

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Originally Posted by TQM

I see Dungcaster says the SPL has coped - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19904760 - what happended to Armageddon then ya prick?!? Or was that the other erse Reagan?

How those two are still in jobs is beyond me!

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:agree: It is to the SPL and SFA's continuing shame that these two tossers are still representing their organisations, and speaks VOLUMES for about their lack of morals, courage and integrity.

So without sifting through hundreds of pages to find the answers, any chance of a swift guide to refute the PR campaign of Green and subsequent fawning of the Hun masses?

No litigation ahead aside from league titles possibly being stripped according to Green, leaving only an attractive and unique investment opportunity - is that based on the assumption that any EBT, SPL or Big Tax Case punishments are the responsibility of the former company? As are creditor and administrator fees?

Crowds are NEARLY THE BIGGEST IN BRITAIN so say the fans - 36k season tickets and merchandise ably cover a much reduced wage bill so nothing to worry about, The Rangers and debt free and will be devoid of financial hardship from now on - But the wage bills still huge no? The initial £5m 'investment' would have been swallowed up from the start, and heavily discounted season tickets limit that income source?

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Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

Bill McMurdo's view here.

https://billmcmurdo.wordpress.com/20.../#comment-2829

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Oh my god....what did I just read?! And have you seen the comments underneath???

When will these shares be issued on aim and at what price? Does anyone else agree that shorting them could be a worthy investment?