The Trans Rights Debate

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Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

This bill does not allow a man to simply state that he feels like a woman today, just so he can legally access female spaces in order to commit illegal acts (which would be a pointless course of action anyway). If you had taken the time to actually read the bill, you would have been fully aware of this.

Once again, it's hyperbole that has been stirred up by an anti-progressive Conservative press that is completely baseless and out of touch with the reality of the situation.

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I have read the bill. More than once. And (to state the obvious) it says nothing about enabling a man to do such a thing. It does however remove any meaningful checks and balances when it comes to a male 'becoming' a woman. Coupled with the associated Court of Session ruling which effectively removes biology from the equation, its impact on what it actually means to be a woman - as well as the potential safety concerns it raises - are obvious. I respect your views on this as they are clearly heartfelt and you appear to be one of the few posters who is basing their arguments on sound knowledge of the bill's contents but I cannot agree it changes nothing.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Both of Christine Jardines interventions were very good.

Lock me up now. 😂

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:greengrin

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Originally Posted by marinello59

Why would identifying as a woman give anybody increased access to children?

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Your right, just woman.

318-71 on the motion in the UK parliament.

Labour have done a runner again.

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Originally Posted by James310

Doesn't this also prove the point some men will go to extreme lengths to have easy access to vulnerable woman? So if man potentially joins the police so he can carry out attacks as he thinks it will be easier to have access to vulnerable woman what's to stop a similar minded man applying for a GRC by doing nothing for 3 months and self IDing as a woman, especially if he thinks it will allow him acces to vulnerable woman and children.

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Is joining the Met police an "extreme length"?

Seems to be natural home for misogynists and pretty easy for them to find work there.

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

318-71 on the motion in the UK parliament.

Labour have done a runner again.

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‘Take back control’. Unless your Scottish. [emoji35]
Disgusting after last week boasting about devolving power away from Westminster. Fails the first test.


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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Seemingly the law can't be passed because the HMRC computer system can't handle the change.

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Wind up, surely.

Wtf has it got to do with HMRC?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Wind up, surely.

Wtf has it got to do with HMRC?

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Something about men changing to women and pensions.

Para 20 on the "reasons" document I think.

"The most notable example is the administration of tax, benefit and State pensions which are managed by integrated systems across the UK that span reserved and devolved functions, operating for both the UK and Scottish governments. Existing IT infrastructure only allows one legal sex on any record and cannot change the marker for 16 to 17 year olds. Those responsible for these systems consider that it may be unmanageable, even with considerable time and expense,[footnote 4] to build system capability to manage a dual identity for the same individual if someone’s legal sex could be different in Scots law and the law for England and Wales."

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Originally Posted by ronaldo7

Something about men changing to women and pensions.

Para 20 on the "reasons" document I think.

The most notable example is the administration of tax, benefit and State pensions which are managed by integrated systems across the UK that span reserved and devolved functions, operating for both the UK and Scottish governments. Existing IT infrastructure only allows one legal sex on any record and cannot change the marker for 16 to 17 year olds. Those responsible for these systems consider that it may be unmanageable, even with considerable time and expense,[footnote 4] to build system capability to manage a dual identity for the same individual if someone’s legal sex could be different in Scots law and the law for England and Wales.

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They have been dealing with differences between Scots and English law for eons. They currently deal with different tax laws. They have been dealing with people who change gender for as long as that has been a thing.

HMRC's IT record is not the best, but their "existing infrastructure" is constantly being changed.

It's an excuse, no more.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They have been dealing with differences between Scots and English law for eons. They currently deal with different tax laws. They have been dealing with people who change gender for as long as that has been a thing.

It's an excuse, no more.

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The reasons document are full of them.

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

They have been dealing with differences between Scots and English law for eons. They currently deal with different tax laws. They have been dealing with people who change gender for as long as that has been a thing.

HMRC's IT record is not the best, but their "existing infrastructure" is constantly being changed.

It's an excuse, no more.

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Sometimes excuses are all you’ve got.


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Originally Posted by Kato

Is joining the Met police an "extreme length"?

Seems to be natural home for misogynists and pretty easy for them to find work there.

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Not sure if you are being serious?

It's a harder and longer process than sitting in your bedroom for 3 months doing nothing and declaring yourself you are now a woman.

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Originally Posted by James310

Doesn't this also prove the point some men will go to extreme lengths to have easy access to vulnerable woman? So if man potentially joins the police so he can carry out attacks as he thinks it will be easier to have access to vulnerable woman what's to stop a similar minded man applying for a GRC by doing nothing for 3 months and self IDing as a woman, especially if he thinks it will allow him acces to vulnerable woman.

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Sexual predators don't care if they're allowed to access vulnerable people or not. They simply will. They don't require a GRC to do so. Why would any sexual predator wait 3 months to change their gender identification to gain access to vulnerable people when they can already access vulnerable people as men anyway?

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Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee

Sexual predators don't care if they're allowed to access vulnerable people or not. They simply will. They don't require a GRC to do so. Why would any sexual predator wait 3 months to change their gender identification to gain access to vulnerable people when they can already access vulnerable people as men anyway?

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Why do they become policemen, priests, teacher etc?

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Originally Posted by James310

Why do they become policemen, priests, teacher etc?

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To get paid money?

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Originally Posted by James310

Not sure if you are being serious?

It's a harder and longer process than sitting in your bedroom for 3 months doing nothing and declaring yourself you are now a woman.

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Yes but you are claiming that he joined the Met in order to abuse women. Maybe he just wanted to be a copper and was an abuser anyway.

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Originally Posted by WeeRussell

Out of interest, is your issue that you don’t think trans people should be allowed to use regular public toilets/changing rooms etc?

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Once transitioned no problem …my honest concern is the possibility of abuse by predators claiming to be trans, I have said previously that I fully support the spirit of the Act and people with gender issues need as much support and help as possible. The abuse I imagine will not come from those transitioning.

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Originally Posted by James310

Why do they become policemen, priests, teacher etc?

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You'll find sexual predators in almost all occupations. The one's with sexual offence records are however limited in the occupations they can involve themselves in for obvious reasons. These laws apply equally to men and women with such records.

What confuses me is why you think a man pretending to identify as a woman would somehow make it easier for him to access vulnerable people. What are you basing that on?

In other news, the UK Government have rowed back on their previous view that conversion therapy for trans people in England & Wales can be allowed:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64304142

Some good news :agree:

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Originally Posted by Berwickhibby

Once transitioned no problem …my honest concern is the possibility of abuse by predators claiming to be trans, I have said previously that I fully support the spirit of the Act and people with gender issues need as much support and help as possible. The abuse I imagine will not come from those transitioning.

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Fair dos and Thanks for reply 👍

Interesting response to HMG's intervention from a number of Civil Society organisations:-

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.u...ntervention-o/

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Interesting response to HMG's intervention from a number of Civil Society organisations:-

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.u...ntervention-o/

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Yeah, but what would they know?[emoji849]


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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Interesting response to HMG's intervention from a number of Civil Society organisations:-

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.u...ntervention-o/

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Rape Crisis Scotland are basically a Scottish Government organisation, I remember at the Alex Salmond trial and inquiry they were wheeled out with a statement whenever things looked bad for the SG.

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Originally Posted by James310

Not sure if you are being serious?

It's a harder and longer process than sitting in your bedroom for 3 months doing nothing and declaring yourself you are now a woman.

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Which pretty much proves the point that predators will do what they do regardless of checks and balances.

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Originally Posted by James310

Rape Crisis Scotland are basically a SG Government organisation, I remember at the Alex Salmond trial and inquiry they were wheeled out with a statement whenever things looked bad for the SG.

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Is this the thing you call "deflection"?



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Originally Posted by Kato

Is this the thing you call "deflection"?



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No, just an opinion. Look who funds most of those organisations.

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Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg

Which pretty much proves the point that predators will do what they do regardless of checks and balances.

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So why make it easier for them than it already is? We should just accept it happens so do nothing?

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Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod

Interesting response to HMG's intervention from a number of Civil Society organisations:-

https://www.rapecrisisscotland.org.u...ntervention-o/

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Very powerful.

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Originally Posted by James310

Rape Crisis Scotland are basically a Scottish Government organisation, I remember at the Alex Salmond trial and inquiry they were wheeled out with a statement whenever things looked bad for the SG.

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In other news, Rape crisis Scotland are a registered charity and have been since 1996, pre dating the reconvened Scottish Parliament.

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Originally Posted by James310

No, just an opinion. Look who funds most of those organisations.

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I see, it's when others look at who funds people it's deflection.

Did you read the article?

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