Share Transfers Agreed/Cooling off period

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Close season is the gap between a season and the next one. What's it called when the gap runs infinite ?

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Event horizon.

From Wiki:

"In general relativity, an event horizon is a boundary in spacetime beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer. In layman's terms, it is defined as "the point of no return" i.e. the point at which the gravitational pull becomes so great as to make escape impossible. The most common case of an event horizon is that surrounding a black hole. Light emitted from beyond the horizon can never reach the outside observer. Likewise, any object approaching the horizon from the observer's side appears to slow down and never quite pass through the horizon, with its image becoming more and more redshifted as time elapses. The traveling object, however, experiences no strange effects and does, in fact, pass through the horizon in a finite amount of proper time."

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Originally Posted by Col2

Does a scenario exist where they lose previous cup wins? Eg a newco means they can't claim it as part of history?

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If control of the SFA membership currently held by Hearts was lost, aye. That's the main basis for Rangers claiming a continuity of history. For example Airdrie United has a different SFA membership from that previously held by Airdrieonians. Even though Airdrie United has now renamed itself Airdrieonians, they can't (and don't) claim old Airdrieonians honours as their own. All they do on their own website is recount a general history of football in Airdrie.

http://airdriefc.com/history.html

If a newco secured the SFA membership then the MSM would recognise them as the same club, using the Rangers / Sevco precedent. Obviously you would get folk arguing against that, but it wouldn't gain any traction officially. I have to say at this point I would be very surprised if the SFA membership was lost, even if their company was liquidated and Tynecastle lost. The SFA membership would be one of the few other valuable assets held by the company and would be worthwhile for FOH (or whoever) to secure.

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Originally Posted by Col2

Does a scenario exist where they lose previous cup wins? Eg a newco means they can't claim it as part of history?

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Yes, if they're a newco then they're a new club and its therefore previous successes are not part of their history. Their history begins from when the newco was formed. Although like the rangers they'll probably claim otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Col2

Does a scenario exist where they lose previous cup wins? Eg a newco means they can't claim it as part of history?

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A scenario exists where they lose everything and have no club at all.
Most likely they will start a new club at a lower level.

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Originally Posted by 1two

Yes, if they're a newco then they're a new club and its therefore previous successes are not part of their history. Their history begins from when the newco was formed. Although like the rangers they'll probably claim otherwise.

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I reckon it's kind of a moot point - if they wind up a newco then unlike big Sevco I reckon they're finished.

A newco in D3 won't get the stadium on the cheap and wouldn't be able to finance running it anyway.

It's one thing for wee Sally's manky mob with 40,000 zombie huns paying through the turnstyles (and even with the money and attracting decent players it wasn't the walk on the park predicted).

The Yams would have no ground, at best slightly better players and their attendances would crash through the floor.

If they can't be bothered saving the club they currently have I can't imagine them turning out to watch a wee sevco in maroon playing at a rented stadium in Livi and getting pumped by D3 teams.

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Originally Posted by Col2

Does a scenario exist where they lose previous cup wins? Eg a newco means they can't claim it as part of history?

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Here is a wee guide to help:

Anything bad to happen- "We are a Newco"
Anything good - "We are Oldco"

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

If control of the SFA membership currently held by Hearts was lost, aye. That's the main basis for Rangers claiming a continuity of history. For example Airdrie United has a different SFA membership from that previously held by Airdrieonians. Even though Airdrie United has now renamed itself Airdrieonians, they can't (and don't) claim old Airdrieonians honours as their own. All they do on their own website is recount a general history of football in Airdrie.

http://airdriefc.com/history.html

If a newco secured the SFA membership then the MSM would recognise them as the same club, using the Rangers / Sevco precedent. Obviously you would get folk arguing against that, but it wouldn't gain any traction officially. I have to say at this point I would be very surprised if the SFA membership was lost, even if their company was liquidated and Tynecastle lost. The SFA membership would be one of the few other valuable assets held by the company and would be worthwhile for FOH (or whoever) to secure.

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Would they still be able to transfer the sfa membership if they don't have a newco set up in time? Rangers only just managed it last year and their situation was much more clear cut and they were weeks ahead of Hearts at this stage, so I would be amazed if Hearts manage to get a newco up and running in 6 weeks or so.

"blood money shows on a maroon jersey"

Thats the definition of 5-1

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Originally Posted by Treadstone

Here is a wee guide to help:

Anything bad to happen- "We are a Newco"
Anything good - "We are Oldco"

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Not sure I remember this right but didn't big Sevco claim to be a newco as far as paying (or rather not paying) the remainder of the Jelavic transfer money to Rapid Vienna while also claiming to be oldco for the purposes of receiving money Everton were due them for the same player?

comment from JJ in the ****** today......made me smile, it was about Gary "i love a golden shower" locke...

Since then, the 37-year-old has embarked on a venture only slightly less difficult than trying to push water uphill.

Last week, it tipped all over him

:greengrin

big dorothy and his advice (lol, he can talk)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...cash-1-2968928


why is it everyone thinks Admin = come out debt free all nice and happy with new owners?

Is it really the case this is a likely outcome? Although it seems possible, I still personally feel they will be liquadated and I am not sure they will even be ready for D3 as others said. No Hearts in 2013/2014 looks more possible to me, than them playing in the SPL and being debt free?

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Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

big dorothy and his advice (lol, he can talk)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...cash-1-2968928


why is it everyone thinks Admin = come out debt free all nice and happy with new owners?

Is it really the case this is a likely outcome? Although it seems possible, I still personally feel they will be liquadated and I am not sure they will even be ready for D3 as others said. No Hearts in 2013/2014 looks more possible to me, than them playing in the SPL and being debt free?

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For McPherson, read Dodds.

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Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

big dorothy and his advice (lol, he can talk)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...cash-1-2968928


why is it everyone thinks Admin = come out debt free all nice and happy with new owners?

Is it really the case this is a likely outcome? Although it seems possible, I still personally feel they will be liquadated and I am not sure they will even be ready for D3 as others said. No Hearts in 2013/2014 looks more possible to me, than them playing in the SPL and being debt free?

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To be fair to the donkey fella, he's possibly the first person (other than us, obviously) to come out and tell the fans that they need to stop chucking their money at a ruinous regime. While I agree with you that the future looks a tad less rosy than DMcP and other Jambos seems to think it will be in a post admin world, they could have done with this advice during the season, when they may have been more likely to come out of administration with a future in professional football.

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Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

big dorothy and his advice (lol, he can talk)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...cash-1-2968928


why is it everyone thinks Admin = come out debt free all nice and happy with new owners?

Is it really the case this is a likely outcome? Although it seems possible, I still personally feel they will be liquadated and I am not sure they will even be ready for D3 as others said. No Hearts in 2013/2014 looks more possible to me, than them playing in the SPL and being debt free?

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Everyone always hopes the best from their club, even if it is wildly unrealistic.

If you had asked Jambos just last week if administration was possible or even likely, they would have dismissed the idea, perhaps by suggesting that "the takeover will go through before anything bad happens".

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Originally Posted by s.a.m

To be fair to the donkey fella, he's possibly the first person (other than us, obviously) to come out and tell the fans that they need to stop chucking their money at a ruinous regime. While I agree with you that the future looks a tad less rosy than DMcP and other Jambos seems to think it will be in a post admin world, they could have done with this advice during the season, when they may have been more likely to come out of administration with a future in professional football.

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He said this has been on the cards for a number of years - but IMO the fans have lapped up every second under this regime & during that time have turned into the most horrible support ever, to the point that I don't even keep in touch with many yams (who were much more bearable pre Romanov. Could even socalise with them post a derby). They get all they deserve and I hope it's a LOT worse than they are anticipating.

Just don't see the point in everyone coming out now and speaking.

What financial disaster will beset our gorgie chums today, I'm going for a winding up petition.

any news on UBIG ?

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Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

He said this has been on the cards for a number of years - but IMO the fans have lapped up every second under this regime & during that time have turned into the most horrible support ever, to the point that I don't even keep in touch with many yams (who were much more bearable pre Romanov. Could even socalise with them post a derby). They get all they deserve and I hope it's a LOT worse than they are anticipating.

Just don't see the point in everyone coming out now and speaking.

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:agree:
Agree with both points - they deserve it, and people of a jambo persuasion should have been saying all of these things long ago.

[ QUOTE=lord bunberry;3644264]What financial disaster will beset our gorgie chums today, I'm going for a winding up petition.[/QUOTE]

There has been talk here and elsewhere of Tuesday, for a significant (negative) event. Can you wait 24 hours?:greengrin

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Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

any news on UBIG ?

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As of Thursday of last week, there was no insolvency filed in the Lithuanian courts (they have to do that for legal reasons). I'd imagine that this will happen in the next few days though as they've stated publicly that they're goosed.

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

If control of the SFA membership currently held by Hearts was lost, aye. That's the main basis for Rangers claiming a continuity of history. For example Airdrie United has a different SFA membership from that previously held by Airdrieonians. Even though Airdrie United has now renamed itself Airdrieonians, they can't (and don't) claim old Airdrieonians honours as their own.

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Possibly because they had bugger all to claim?

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Originally Posted by Col2

Does a scenario exist where they lose previous cup wins? Eg a newco means they can't claim it as part of history?

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This raises an interst point! If the history is up for sale can we buy the Scottish cup win? They did in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Sergey

As of Thursday of last week, there was no insolvency filed in the Lithuanian courts (they have to do that for legal reasons). I'd imagine that this will happen in the next few days though as they've stated publicly that they're goosed.

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OK - looking forward to the 15 point penalty.
As much as they have more serious issues to deal with, this will still be a nice little kick in the groin to them (as they are so sure of themselves and they belong at the top of league and always above the hibees).

It seems a question of what actually will trigger their admin process? (though as I said earlier, I am not sure admin will a good thing for them, as they seem to think).

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Originally Posted by s.a.m

[ QUOTE=lord bunberry;3644264]What financial disaster will beset our gorgie chums today, I'm going for a winding up petition.

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There has been talk here and elsewhere of Tuesday, for a significant (negative) event. Can you wait 24 hours?:greengrin[/QUOTE]

I suppose so

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Originally Posted by Craig_in_Prague

big dorothy and his advice (lol, he can talk)

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footba...cash-1-2968928


why is it everyone thinks Admin = come out debt free all nice and happy with new owners?

Is it really the case this is a likely outcome? Although it seems possible, I still personally feel they will be liquadated and I am not sure they will even be ready for D3 as others said. No Hearts in 2013/2014 looks more possible to me, than them playing in the SPL and being debt free?

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Who pays the admin fees for when they eventually go in to the PBS? Surely if its the business that pays they won't be in long before they liquidate? Duff & duffer wracked up massive fees with the zombies and I'm sure the admin at Motherwell (maybe Gretna) cost in the region of £250,000
could the recent announcement of a fire sale be to get rid of anyone worth something for the liths to get a final lining of there pockets before the whole things wound up or will any player sales have to stay in the club for the administrators going in?

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Originally Posted by jgl07

Possibly because they had bugger all to claim?

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A bit harsh IMO. Airdrie were one of the more successful town clubs, particularly in the 10 years or so before they went out of business.

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Originally Posted by Matty_Jack04

Who pays the admin fees for when they eventually go in to the PBS? Surely if its the business that pays they won't be in long before they liquidate? Duff & duffer wracked up massive fees with the zombies and I'm sure the admin at Motherwell (maybe Gretna) cost in the region of £250,000
could the recent announcement of a fire sale be to get rid of anyone worth something for the liths to get a final lining of there pockets before the whole things wound up or will any player sales have to stay in the club for the administrators going in?

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The buyer. The admin fees aren't an issue, the lack of cash in the business is.

The suggested "fire sale" is a desperate attempt to keep the company afloat. It's also kind of a threat to the fans that if they don't bail them out they will flog off "the best young talent in Britain" for buttons.

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Originally Posted by Sergey

As of Thursday of last week, there was no insolvency filed in the Lithuanian courts (they have to do that for legal reasons). I'd imagine that this will happen in the next few days though as they've stated publicly that they're goosed.

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Is there a set period of how long UBIG'S assets are frozen for or are they frozen indefinitely until there application for insolvency is sorted out?

Few yams down this way seem to think there will be a bid made from a consortium this week whilst FOH are waiting until July 4th (don't know the reason for that specific date) I don't see how any bids can be made whilst the assets are frozen or why anyone would make a bid now rather than waiting on a lower price pre administration, but I'm no financial genius

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

A bit harsh IMO. Airdrie were one of the more successful town clubs, particularly in the 10 years or so before they went out of business.

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Funny how a club going out of business is usually preceded by period of on field success.

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Originally Posted by Part/Time Supporter

The buyer. The admin fees aren't an issue, the lack of cash in the business is.

The suggested "fire sale" is a desperate attempt to keep the company afloat. It's also kind of a threat to the fans that if they don't bail them out they will flog off "the best young talent in Britain" for buttons.

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Thanks for that, I was wondering this because of the lack of cash in the business as they've already used up all revenue I thought there was a chance they'd go into admin and be quickly shut down so the admin company don't work for nothing