Printable View
Has everyone not said the SNP or the MPs aren't fascist in any way though, so not the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
SNP today are obviously nothing to do with the party of almost a century ago. That said I wouldn't highlight a bigot from the past if I were any of them
It's always funny when you unionists claim the SNP are historically fascist, conveniently forgetting that there were many Nazi sympathisers and admirers in the British establishment. The Royal family had them, the Labour Party had them and one particular Tory went on to establish the British Fascist Party.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
As always the unionists want the SNP to be examined under the microscope forgetting what skeletons they have in their own cupboards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Mind-boggling, not least the fact he seems so utterly ill-briefed to deal with such questions.
As you say, if the motor vehicles referred to in the report don't include the motor home, why hasn't it been put through the books?! Or is Beattie simply incompetent?
I note that further down this story the stand-off between Blackford and Flynn about who knew what and when about the auditors continues apace:
Former SNP treasurer 'didn't know' about motorhome - BBC News
Talking of whom, will she be following the beleaguered Beattie in showing face back at Holyrood any time soon?Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
There was also more than one Tory who "liked" Hitler - also members of the aristocracy, press barons, members of the Royal Family.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
All of those had way more sway than a bunch of jocks getting pished and writing poetry.
There was also a Tory/Aristocratic "Friends of Germany" group which was prominent. Rings a more recent treacherous bell.
Prince Charles Edward, Queen Vic's grandson joined the Nazi Party and the Brownshirts. His town of Coburg, the ancestral seat of the Hannoverian/Saxe Coburg/Windsor dynasty, became the first municipality in Germany with a Nazi mayor.
He also wore a stormtroopers uniform to Dode V's funeral.
Hitler made head of the German Red Cross which implemented the T4 programme murdering 200,000 disabled people in the name of eugenics.
A white rose pales a bit really.
Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
Doubt she’ll ever be back in Holyrood. A couple more weeks of staying out of reach of any questions and then she’ll stand down as an MSP.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
I also doubt we’ll see her give any interviews or speeches anytime soon either.
She told everyone in the media / the country when she resigned as FM, that there was nothing in it, and there was no story to be found. That’s about as far from the truth as possible.
How can she possibly face the same media again?
No idea what the future holds for her, but it will be one completely outside of Scottish politics.
Maybe he wasn't the treasurer at the time, the one who resigned said he wasn't given access to the accounts. This is not my theory, I put my hands up to having read it in the comments section of the herald.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I'm not sure but he did sign off the 2021 accounts where the 80k of vehicles were in the accounts, so he certainly should have known about it. He might clarify laterQuote:
Originally Posted by Santa Cruz
A lot of the above will depend on exactly what "the story" turns out to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
I wish you would tell me what the truth is here, as I don't have a Scooby about what's going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Do the accounts say that the £80k relates to the motor home?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Your guess is as good as mine, actually no, you're guess is better than mine, you've practiced it more. 😉Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
No motor vehicles.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
If you had followed the thread I said he was complex. The issue isn't the pre-war period but the highlighting of him now by the SNP. As to the establishment sympathies for the Nazis in the pre war period, I defy you to find anything that I have ever posted that has in any way tried to defend that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Sure. But you don't find the current royal family bigging up one of Victoria's 22 grandchildren.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
Another theory from a pretty adamant poster in the herald comments section is the motorhome is showing as a leased vehicle in the accounts. I don't understand accounting, I toil to sometimes understand my own finances, so no idea what this means really.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Yeah but that's just the standard wording. Purchase of a motor home would probably go into that category. I'm just pointing out that people are assuming the motor home is the vehicle that's in the accounts but it might not be. As with lots of other things, we just don't know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
There are no "leased vehicles" separately identified in the accounts. Either this poster has inside knowledge or they're guessing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Santa Cruz
She is in parliament today?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This one is a lovely wee subplot. At least one of them is lying. It seems like years ago rather than months ago when news of a challenge to Blackford as Westminster leader was being dismissed as wishful thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
I'm not so sure it really matters what the outcome is, however unfair that may sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
The story is the here and now, and what we've all witnessed these last few weeks.
Assuming there has been nothing criminal or 'dodgy', the simple point about not having auditors, and not being able to appoint any, is a huge story in itself.
Blackford and Flynn arguing about who knew what, when - would have been a huge story if it happened when NS was in charge. With everything else going on, it's a little side show.
Blackford was on the news saying the accounts are fine and will 100% be filed and audited in time. I bet he's not so sure about that now.
The point i'm making is, if you think back to how firmly in control NS was the day before she announced her resignation, to where the SNP and NS are now, it's been a remarkable change.
The police wrapping up their enquiry without any charges or further arrests won't change anything.
I don't want to post some random persons comments, goes into quite a lot of detail which you can view without a subscription. It may or may not make more sense to someone who understands accounts. Will warn you though if you don't already know the comments section in that paper is not objective in any way, full of political bias. I find it odd how unobjective people are when it comes to politics in Scotland. For me, you can chose a party which you would prefer to vote for, but it's fine to also criticise them on points you don't agree with. Seldom happens nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
It might not be the motorhome but it will be far worse for the SNP if its not in the accounts, although I'm sure it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
The is no vehicle assets in the previous accounts.
Here's the accounts where its listed
https://mobile.twitter.com/stayloris...32230564995078
Note 18 has no reference to the vehicle its weirdly lumped in with office equipment so you can't see what it was bought for. The fixed asset note and the depreciation policy both fail to note anything about motor vehicles, which is weird
https://mobile.twitter.com/kevmc2016...56380503404547
How is this a "huge story"? Organisations change auditors all the time, and auditors will often step down as seems to have been the case here. We don't know if new auditors have been appointed and we don't know if the SNP has struggled to find some. It might be a story, but equally it might not.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
Well if this is the case, then "job done". The SNP (and possibly the wider independence movement?) destabilised by huge police and media operation regardless of whether any wrongdoing* has occurred.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhileTheChief..
*If it has, I'll be very disappointed.
You are the one who linked it to Hugh mcdiarmid on here, yesterday evening in response to a question about the wearing of the white rose. At the same time I was explaining the historical significance of the white rose in Jacobite history.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
It's strange how the length of 'debate' about it has centred on the author of a poem rather than the actual history of the the white cockade.
Poor drafting and accounts checking by the auditors. Sack 'em.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
The national and one of the mps who actually wore it linked it to him. Its hardly a big deal and obviously snp of today aren't the least bit fascistQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Depends when it was bought. Depends who owns it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Beattie said today they hadn't. It is big news as they lost them in September Blackford said he found out the end of last year, Flynn February and Humza in March. They also have 35 days to find an auditor that they admit they are having difficulty getting, get them to audit accounts or they lose over £1 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Humza said that the SNP bought it in January 2021. Chapman was treasurer when it was bought but left due to not getting access to financial information. Beattie signed off 2021 accountsQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Of course they don't. They are way too busy with modern day objectionable stuff to look back at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
I don't think it's right and proper or even legal for her to make any statements at this time. But it's typical unionist behaviour to expect the independence side to either do things that they can't or that the unionists refuse to do themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
You've not, but you've not posted anything to highlight it either. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Unfortunately they were proved to have lied once. But there’s no need to publish the numbers now that they have regained the ability to count them in real time again, it’s internal party business, just as it is for all the other parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
If they are withholding the size of the electorate from candidates in a leadership contest though, which the SNP did, that’s entirely different.
It’s typical behaviour from many on both sides to an equal degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Is this what the police investigation is about? If they miss the deadline for having audited accounts is the £1m gone forever or just until they get the accounts done?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Anything illegal here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Very fine people on both sides?Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
Of course there is.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Sorry, it was a relatively obscure Trump quote.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...26573.html?amp
I see Sturgeon has finally surfaced, describing the ongoing debacle as beyond her "worst nightmares".
She actually said "I could not have anticipated in my worst nightmares what would have unfolded over the past few weeks.”Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
So she still isn't admitting to having expected this or for being the reason for her stepping down. Which admittedly I do find unconvincing.
I think they can lose them. There have been lots of other parties that have got extentions I'd read. I would bet the tories would try and influence that not happening though.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
I'm no expert but I don't think anything illegal has happened, I'd bet that the vehicle in the accounts is the motorhome. I think the more likely thing is Murrell has been doing too much himself and ruling the party as his own. I believe Humza ect when they say they didn't know about a number of things. Its all getting a bit boring for me. Even if their is proven corruption or mismanagement its probably just due to one person and not the party
Even if that were the case and the motor home is included in the accounts, what would it say about Beattie's competence? For a purchase of that nature to pass the party's treasurer by would seem extraordinary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Ah… whoosh. :greengrinQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Remarkable to hear her say she hasn't been spoken to by the police yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee
I’ve said it before on this thread but at a human level I can only feel sympathy for the situation Nicola Sturgeon is facing right now. You can see the toll it has taken on her, she must be living in a nightmare.
Well she says that, but we don't know if it's really true or not. It could also be that they're trying to build a case around her. Which would likely mean doing away with the small fish in order to get to the big fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
You expected her to lie?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Oh you do expect her to lie!Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee
Depends if she's innocent or guilty as sin I suppose. Although in all likelihood it'll be somewhere in the middle.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
CEO of the party and Treasurer are small fish? Ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee
Agree. If no charges are brought there will be a political backlash.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
I doubt they're the only people the police have spoken to. Just because the media doesn't report on every single individual, doesn't mean that others haven't been questioned as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
If he didn't know it would make him stupid for not asking for details in the accounts before signing. He and others are all saying they knew nothing about the motorhome, for a company that needed an 100k loan its certainly ridiculous that one could be purchased without clearing it with others.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Re your 1st sentence, I sort of agree, but ( :greengrin ) someone brought it up for some reason?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
We'll have to agree to disagree. Given the rabid nature of reporting in this investigation, I think if the police questioned Nicola's goldfish it would be headline news.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee
Reading all the posts today about Beattie.
I am not sure what his qualifications are for being Treasurer, but if he is a member of any accountancy body, I think he may be getting his collar felt.
He has been party to the approval of accounts which clearly show the acquisition of (a) vehicle(s) , which has been financed by the CEO, and which wasn't paid for through the party's bank account. If he hasn't asked the appropriate questions about that, he's incompetent.
If he is actually telling the truth, and it turns out that the vehicle(s) in the accounts are not the motor home, that opens up a completely new line of enquiry.
She's handed them their front page headlines for tomorrow on a plate with that 'worst nightmare' chat.Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Beattie’s memory is coming back https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...PAYQhr-HZKHk8k personally I think he is full of ****
I'll concede that Flynn seems a more agreeable character than Blackford and appears to play things with a pretty straight bat. 'It's hard to get that image of the police tent out of your head' is a quote you can't imagine Blackford ever making and to state that the first he knew of the campervan 'was on the front page of a newspaper' is refreshingly honest. On that basis I'd believe his version of events re the auditors before that windbag Blackford.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinello59
What do you expect her to say, that she is enjoying it?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Oh THAT campervan...Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
Uh huh.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-65393718
No refunds, says Yousaf.
Might be tricky to 'unweave' the funds right enough...another 'ring-fenced' fundraiser might do it tho.
Exactly, no one has claimed that the modern SNP is fascist in any way, shape or form, however many of the founding members of the SNP in the 1930's were involved in some very questionable activities before and during WW2, including Hugh MacDiarmid, who wrote "A plea for a Scottish Fascism" and a "Programme for a Scottish Fascism". Hugh MacDiarmid also felt that a Nazi invasion of England was "in Scotland's best interests". For this reason the modern SNP should quietly stop the wearing of the white rose in parliament.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
https://thinkscotland.org/2022/05/th...m-anglophobia/
A final word on the white rose wearing.
I wish that they would wear the proper Rosa pimpinelafolia, a single rosette of petals rather than the floribunda rose they got from a florist.
In that case, it's nothing to do with McDairmid as he speaks of the former. 😆Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65397235
Some pretty good stuff in here. Hope it goes forward.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65396233
Sounds like Blackford kept pretty much everyone in the dark re the auditors according to the story on the Herald front page. Not sure how long he can keep trying to shift the heat on to Flynn.
https://archive.ph/qVFzT
Hadn't realised this was still dragging on.
That's interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I know it's incredibly contentious here in Scotland, but I remember the subject of the uniquely Scottish "not proven" verdict coming up in the Netflix series version of "The Staircase". It was put forward as an excellent example of what can be done when a judge thinks someone is guilty but that there is insufficient evidence to prove it - possibly the only time I can remember anyone making a positive case for it's existence.
On balance - I think I accept that criminal justice is riddled with imperfection but at heart I think "innocent until proven guilty" is the way to go, and that muddying the waters doesn't really help anyone. Ultimately this is probably a good, and long overdue, move.
I agree. Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Removing not proven will increase the amount of guilty verdicts its generally agreed. Maybe we do need more convictions but I'm not sure. Hopefully the review and decision won't be lead by politicians but by the justice system themselves
I’ve no problem with more convictions but would prefer different sentencing with less prison used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Any conviction can ruin a life and future career. I'd definitely have less for minor things, but that is separate from thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Who’s in charge and what are they in charge of? | RobinMcAlpine.org
Much to agree with here.
I respectively disagree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
Not proven, IMO , offered a safeguard to ensuring only those who we are almost certain beyond reasonable doubt are guilty.
It's a very fine balancing act, but my opinion is that the overall burden should fall on those doing that prosecution to prove someone is guilty, rather than a judge or jury going on a feeling or a gut instinct, which I think not proven protected against.
They'll be legal minds with far better inside into it than mine on the pros and cons, but that's my two tuppence worth
I suppose a bit of balance to this is the reduction from 15 to 12 jurors, but still requiring 8 for a conviction. I'm sure amendments will be made as it passes through parliament where most parties are in agreement. We only need union jack to come up with some spurious reason why it affects England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
How would it affect the rest of the UK?Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo7
I agree with you. As you say, a very fine line, but I think it's more than just a quirk of Scots Law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
Ian Blackford's tantrum over SNP auditor enquiries | The Spectator
This just gets better.
How dare you. How dare you.
Not sure it does, it won't stop union jack trying to find something that does though.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Before you answer, it's Scots law...I know.😏
Quote:
Originally Posted by Since90+2
Part of what makes me uncomfortable about it is the fact that it is unique to Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Rather than it being a historical legacy quirk that we have to either continue or abolish, do you believe that it's a good enough idea that every legal system in the world who don't employ it (ie all of them), should?
Winston Churchill also felt that a Nazi invasion of Scotland would somehow be in England's best interests if they simply allowed them to have Scotland. That was of course until he found out that the Nazi invasion was never going to stop at Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by 147lothian
It wouldn't. If anything it would align this aspect of Scots Law more with Engish Law.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
You will to show me a link to that, as this is a first for me, I googled but could not find anythingQuote:
Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-s...82106339089564Quote:
Originally Posted by Berwickhibby
"Our precious Union".Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee
Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
No direct quotes or orders and some historian believes 🙄Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee
It is utter rubbish. Why on earth would Britain want to give Germany a foothold in Scotland to pummel the rest of the country? It would also surrender control of the north Atlantic and therefore the ability to ship material from the US and Canada. It stands up to no scrutiny whatsoever. But I know you won't believe me. Here's the author who was misquoted in the DM article https://gordon-barclay.net/blog/myth...ndon-scotland/
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarpOnHibee
:greengrinQuote:
It was spread very widely by the prominent nationalist blogger Wings over Scotland ...
I don't know enough about other legals systems and their balances and checks to comment. They possibly have a higher threshold for original prosecution for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smartie
I just fundamentally believe that if it can't be proved beyond reasonable doubt almost to the point of someone being certain a person's guilt, then it should be a not proven ve verdict.
Taking the Daily Mail as gospel are we?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kato
It was spread very widely by the prominent nationalist blogger Wings over Scotland ...
If it came from that horrible parasite then I know it’s utter nonsense
Yeah, we should stop that.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/s...ooms-0lcpcpfxb
Is it strange that nobody wants to take on this job? Strikes me as unusual that thd party of government in Scotland would be reduced to cold calling auditors.
Having been on the wrong end of a not proven verdict I can say without doubt it’s since then been a personal bugbear of mine.
I wasn’t guilty but had a devils own job proving that. Just as the prosecution could obviously not prove guilt on my part. I’ve since always thought that in some people’s eyes I was guilty. It really grates with me. Guilt should be proved. End off. Guilty or not guilty. Not proven is a cop out.
Given the policies of ICAS and ICAEW on confidentiality, I wouldn't like to be in the shoes of whoever leaked such an email, if it exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
Totally agree, What happened to you is one reason I'd support abolishing it, the other being the complainer has just went through the ordeal of a court trial with no outcome delivered one way or another. It seems like everyone involved is just left in limbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by greenlex
Excuse my ignorance, but if unsolicited e mails are sent out, is there anything explicit as to the duties of the data controller of the organisation receiving them?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Confidentiality regarding clients, (current, past and potential) is at the heart of any CA practice. Nothing can be disclosed without their consent, or if forced by legal process.Quote:
Originally Posted by archie
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod