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You'll be avoiding shopping in Tesco, Sainsburys and John Lewis too then eh ? They were the clincher along with RBS and Standard Life, not the Beeb.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
They rolled out retail, industry and commerce to win the campaign - jobs and security clinched their win. Not the press.
Glad the No Vote won :thumbsup:
Big no vote in west lothian :thumbsup:
Mon the union :thumbsup:
embarrassment.
It's a shame that people feel the need to label others as cowards and bottler etc. Or suggest people voted in fear.
Accept that people used the information available to them and very rationally decided the best future for them and future generations was to remain part of the UK. Most of us who did so were very clearly NO from the outset and the campaign had little impact
Absolute *****bag of a country. Well done to everyone that voted no. Hope you all enjoy your Tory-UKIP coalition hell hole and Scotland being shafted ever more come the next general election.
Some of us on here have thought of today as “Reconciliation Day 1”. I went to bed and now glad I did, but I accept that those who stayed up are likely to be tired and that may be influencing their reaction to comments.
Today must not be a day for recriminations, accusations or gloating.
You’re either a democrat or you’re not, that is another YES/NO situation. Let’s rejoice that democracy has been the winner. I am gutted at the result and I certainly expected it to be much closer, but I do not think less of my fellow-Scots because they have listened to the arguments and many have simply come to a different opinion than me. How arrogant it would be to think otherwise!
The Westminster model of government is based on Colonial/ British Empire ideas, that they knew best at the centre what was right for countries like India, Ceylon, African countries too numerous to mention. That was lost a long time ago and it could be argued that Scotland has lost the opportunity to accelerate the final break-up of that thinking.
I have been a Federalist most of my adult life and I believed that YES was the best way of achieving that. I heard Willie Rennie this morning use the “F-word”, which I think is the first time I have heard it in its right context during the campaign. I also hear of the final solution to the “West Lothian” question being part of the process now to be taken forward, but IMO the only real solution to that question is a federal system.
Cameron and Darling and others in the TV studios like Danny Alexander have given a commitment to following the timetable that was set out when they were panicking. I am prepared to put aside for a few months my scepticism at their ability to achieve that to pause and see what happens. If they fail to deliver than I will be first in line with the accusations and recriminations!
But until then, well done Scotland, for showing the world what true democracy means.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monopolyguy
Totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by ACLeith
8 and a half months to get an agreement before the election. Then we have to wait and watch what the Westminster politicians decide.
Cowards, bottlers, running scared, wtf is that all about? Some folk need to take a long look at themselves if that is their label to fellow posters and other NO voters. It's been a long night with passions running high,hopefully the reason for such outbursts.
Jeez the way some are reacting its as if Scotland was already some third world country that was awful to live in and its just been made 100 times worse. Some of you don't know how lucky you are.
I voted Yes but despite the vote not going my way I still think we still live in one of the best countries in the world. It could have been even better though.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbc70
I
Dry your eyes ffsQuote:
Originally Posted by Monopolyguy
Epic Yes voter lassie fail on Sky News...
“We’ll always be part of the UK but if we could be independent as well, that would be something else, that would be amazing”
:loser:
There's some white paper available for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
:top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee
Well well some Yes voters really showed their true colours on this thread tonight....hopefully you'll get some sleep and be big enough to come back on and apologise.
ODS summed it up a few pages back. Salmond didn't make the case, he was unable to provide the concrete answers people need to back such a radical change.
It was pointed out to the Yes campaign time and time again that they needed to make that case for change, they needed to provide a clear roadmap and be 100% on what their version of independence actually meant...a concept to be negotiated after with no say from the electorate was simply not a good enough proposal for most.
I'm sure many will continue to blame the BBC et al but in reality the blame should be laid at Salmond's door...he took the wrong route and has paid for it dearly.
Many many no voters just couldn't agree to vote for the undoubted uncertainty and vagueness that a yes would bring.
Me? I'm relieved it's over, look forward to further devolved powers and truly hope that if the question is to be revisited the Yes campaign understand where they went wrong and come back with a credible and detailed proposal...if they had done that this time I have no doubt the nation would have voted Yes.
Sickened by this result. What an opportunity, let down by our own.
Will never vote for Labour ever again.
What is uncertain and vague about making our own decisions and looking after our own affairs. Making up 10% of an electorate that represents your countries interests is surely vague and uncertain?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
And some have accepted the democratic result? And all NO folk have been gracious and magnanimous?Quote:
Originally Posted by SiMar
We look forward to the first set of credible and detailed proposals by the end of November!
Anyway, back to reality, we have a vital match tomorrow, we can all vote YES to a win
:flag:
About to drag myself into work having had about an hours sleep if I'm being generous.
Last night was hugely disappointing. IMO the Yes case was clear, not watertight perhaps but clear. Ultimately a majority of people either didn't feel that was the case or didn't like what they saw. Democracy is such that often a sizeable minority do not get what they want and this is one such time.
Something that has been heartening is seeing the grassroots campaigning on both side but particularly the Yes campaign. The number of people becoming politically active for the 1st time is positive and if a sizeable number of those people can be kept interested then we can ensure Scotland does get the additional powers promised.
When all is said and done last night was a vote againat independence. It wasn't an endorsement of the Conservatives, it wasn't an endorsement of the austerity measures which have hit the most vulnerable hardest and it, hopefully, wasn't an endorsement of the status quo. Time for people to dust themselves down and continue their fight for whatever they believe in.
Well done to the Nos, they got their vote out in numbers and galvanised that vote with their campaign.
I probably shouldn't have ranted like that, just emotions running a bit high so appologies to anyone offended by that post. I wanted a Yes vote, but now that it is a No, i just hope that this country can move forward and prosper. I still think we will be ****ed if/when the Tories and UKIP get in though, just my 2 cents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
:applause: Well saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
The result makes it clear, voting for a concept was not enough for most.Quote:
Originally Posted by capitals_finest
When you propose change it is not enough to point at the status quo and say that's crap let's do something else without explaining what that something else actually entails.
I get ya re self determination and I agree...I actually think the majority of Scots do as well. BUT it needed to be clearer as to what that would mean in reality. A white paper wish list and it's our pound so we are keeping it and dinnae worry about the EU that will all work out fine was not good enough to carry the day.
Fair play buddy :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by Monopolyguy
Votes done and we need to move on but I have to say I'm absolutely gutted this morning.
Everyone has to make the vote that they thought was right, so no problem with how people chose to vote but absolutely ashamed of the way the campaign by the No was run and the disgraceful scaremongering and fear they spread. Labour, Lib dems and tories will never ever get my vote again.
People in scotland have long memories and the opinions of 45% of us will not be ignored.
Anyway off to England now for a long weekend. Same old same old.
:top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
A wee bit of statisitcs to throw a wee bit of perspective, (especially for one of the No campaigners on here :wink:)Quote:
Originally Posted by bighairyfaeleith
The total Electorate is 4,283,392
The total No vote is 2,001,392
So only 46.7% of the electorate voted in favour of NO, meaning 53.3% didn't get the result they wanted.
This is just like every election, isn't it? :greengrin
Is there anywhere you can find out what specific constituencies voted?, I'd like to see the Leith and Edinburgh north result
- 'Guess' campaign...I mean, 'Yes' campaign maths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
4,283,392 total electorate
3,619,915 total votes cast
663,477 of the electorate therefore did not vote - How can you possibly assume that these people did not get what they wanted?
Presumably because if it was something they believed in they would have voted?Quote:
Originally Posted by goosefat
Its a much stronger argument to say that by not voting you are tacitly accepting the decision of those that do so you are getting exactly what you wanted and deserved. The turn out on both sides was outstanding and I would be very surprised if we ever see numbers like that again unless promises are not kept in which case %'s could well be up and the decision different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
The clue was in the smilies.Quote:
Originally Posted by goosefat
It was aimed at one particular contributer who repeatedly claimed that he never got what government he votes for. :greengrin
I'm not going to pretend that I'm not a wee bit gutted, but this is what democracy is.
Humble in victory, gracious in defeat.
Change is coming in Scotland and this is the start of the change that most of the country has been craving.
Beyond gutted, I feel like my country has voted itself out of existence. Hopefully won't feel like that for ever.
Enjoy your celebrations No people. I think even some of you may see it as a pyrrhic victory in the end. "English votes for English laws" doesn't sound like what the Labour bods had in mind.
Thanks to all, Yes and No, that contributed to a great thread. Lots of good points mostly well argued I thought. Where I crossed the line, I re-apologise.
Have to say that I'm totally gutted with the referendum outcome and it will take long time for me to get over this lost opportunity. It's wrong however to criticise those who voted no. Everyone has their own reasons for voting the way they did and we need to respect that and move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by capitals_finest
This result though will have repercussions for the organisations who got their hands dirty with the part they played in the debate. In particular the hypocrisy of the Labour Party in Scotland is truly stunning. A chance to improve the lives of the poorest people in Scotland, the people they are supposed to represent, and they sacrifice that opportunity to protect the jobs of their Westminster elite. I believe they will suffer a backlash in future elections and they deserve everything they get. The BBC also have questions to answer and I really hope there is an independent inquiry into the way they have covered the campaign particularly over the last 2 weeks. Standard Life, Asda, Sainsburys, RBS, Clydesdale Bank and all the other businesses who tried to influence people's voting intentions at such a late stage, will also face repercussions I would expect. They will lose customers as a result.
The most striking images for me in the BBC's election coverage overnight though were those from the gatherings of the respective camps to each result. On the No side you had a slap up jamboree of Hooray Henrys raising their wine glasses in the air and on the Yes side you had scenes from some city centre back office with activists at their desks.
This was a result for the 'haves' over the 'have nots'. Triumph for self-interest over social justice. A sad day for Scotland.
663,477 did not vote. I just don't get that. Why did they choose not to vote?Quote:
Originally Posted by goosefat
I mean six hundred thousand people!
This is how I see it. The chance to improve the lives of everyone in Scotland, but in particular the people who needed it most. We've backed the establishment instead. Feel a bit upset at the thought of it tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes
We've been denied a great opportunity to make a difference to the lives of Scots. Instead we'll forever be in thrall to the three Tory parties at Westminster, thanks in part to the barely concealed bias of the BBC.Quote:
Originally Posted by calumhibee1
Be prepared for 'revised' upward estimates of oil and gas reserves and the net contribution of revenue to the Exchequer from Scotland. The Callaghan government pulled the same stunt in 1979.
Absolutely devastated with the outcome of the vote. Can't believe 1.6 million voted and believed in the dream and have ended up with the same nightmare that has blighted Scotland for decades.
Will never understand until the day I die why the people of Scotland with a chance to change the future and history chose to keep begging for the crumbs off the Westminster table instead of grasping this once in a lifetime chance to make a difference and take our destiny into our own hands and for the generations to follow.
Congratulations to the NO campaign for getting the required votes to get over the line. The establishment have reeled you in hook line and sinker with their promises of This and that but haven't even told you what they are promising you in "their vow"
Already they have forgotten about Scotland down at Westminster and are taking about everyone else apart from us. With voting NO Scotland has been dealt with as far as they are concerned so enjoy you next 3-4 decades of London rule. We ALL had the chance to make a difference and blew it.
:top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint
Gutted.
Now I live in a fair & equal country, I would have liked the same for my homeland.
..You cannie fool the Glaswegians though :wink:
Feel numb. Was expecting a no but it hasnt made it any easier to take
About double the winning margin!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tory Hibby
This is an interesting post referendum poll.
Attachment 13494
Thanks, that is interesting. Half the No vote's biggest reason was "too risky" and the disproportionate number of their support in 65+ is amazing. I think you could characterise enough of the No vote as "Not Yet" to be fairly certain we'll be back here again someday. Only 62% of the No vote think that settles it for >10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
Looking at the result numbers, it looks like differential turnout won it for No. Yes did an extraordinary job of motivating low turnout areas to come out in large numbers, but the affluent No voters turned themselves out in even greater numbers to stop them.
The same statistics show that just over 62% of the electorate didn't vote for independence it would seem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
I actually thought it would be a Yes and I'm a bit surprised with the result in a way.
I do feel for the passionate Yes campaigners, as it must be a gut wrenching disappointment for them.
I still think the whole campaign has highlighted some really important issues for Scotland and the whole UK. People up and down the UK are clearly not happy about the current situation and I hope this translates into meaningful change for the whole UK. Only time will tell.
Just looked up the number of over 65s in Scotland - 930K! So if that poll was correct, Yes may have won among the working age population. Incredible pensioner power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Fleece
We get sovereignty put in our hands for a one day and our people hand it straight back to Westminster!!
Beggars belief, but would appear that a combination of fear and self-interest have won the day ahead of hope and social justice.
I’m not sure where we go from here as country, given the size of the ‘Yes’ vote (i.e. – over 1.6M) I think this will have a serious impact our psyche as a ‘Nation’.
Maybe it wasn't fear that motivated people to vote no. Maybe it was belief & hope that the country will be better together? Long term, Social injustice? More people voted no than yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
Would you of been saying if the result was yes "where does the country go for here due to the impact on the psyche of no supporters"
I've made no secret of my intention to vote no to independance throughout. Although in the aftermath I have to admit it genuinely upsets me to see so many people in despair. Its been an extremely emotional time for Scotland as a whole and people had/have a lot of belief in the issue. Hopefully once the dust settles and people can start thinking positively again then we can move forward.
Not all of them, no, but "shock and awe" wasn't done for nothing, was it? Look at the poll posted above. No voters given 3 broad categories as to why they voted No:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
- 47% "too much risk"
- 27% "better together"
- 25% "best of both worlds"
Exactly, double standards. Just accept the result, as everyone promised they would. And it's also a bit strange to criticise someone for voting out of self-interest. Why wouldn't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
... because not everyone does. We all have our own reasons for voting the way we do, all of them valid. Self-interest wasn't one of mine yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
Very good comments. Things are still raw and people will always react in the immediate aftermath.
The vote is done. If you still feel robbed or passionate, join your local independence action group or political party, use your pain as a springboard to positive action - don't use it as a tool to isolate yourself from friends, family, fellow supporters.
Nice thought but the "silent majority" won, remember? That's the people who don't want to be involved. The grassroots campaign that mobilised itself will be in utter dejection for years. My country just voted itself out of existence, not something that's easy to get over I don't think.Quote:
Originally Posted by #FromTheCapital
Great post :top marksQuote:
Originally Posted by Monopolyguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gus
We've had 35 years of social injustice! It began with Thatcher and then morphed in to New Labour under Tony Blair.
How much longer do we have to wait before it gets Better Together?
The middle classes would prefer to spend their money on another iPad or iPhone to add to their already ridiculous collection of gadgets before they'd consider paying more tax to implement socially just policies.
Last night's vote was a once in a lifetime opportunity to shake up the failed Westminster system of Government and we blew it. As I said, sovereignty for one day and we handed it straight back!!
I have accepted the result, but that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
As to the bit in bold, this is everything that's wrong with our society. If you can't see outside your own 'little bubble' when you are in the polling booth then we truly are ****ed.
A poll of every no person or a pool of say 100. Depending where it geographically I don't take any notice of these polls. Not a dig at you btw as I see where you are coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
I hope come the next elections that 87% of the electorate vote as have done in this vote!
Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
Why doesn't the SNP use the tax raising powers they already have then ?
Pal we need to hope UKIP get in at the next election and they'll take the UK OUT of Europe. That's the only way we'll get another referendum in the next 10 years. Horrible though I know :pray:Quote:
Originally Posted by Monopolyguy
Nope we haven't voted against a social justice agenda, we have voted against an independence agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by calumhibee1
Because increasing income tax alone is almost unworkable in a devolved settlement.Quote:
Originally Posted by stantonhibby
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-26630498
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it "tax-varying" rather than "tax-raising"?Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
Or did that get changed in the recent Scotland Act?
No, you're right. The original is +/-3p. It was supposed to be moving to +/-10p in 2016 under the watered-down Calman act but doesn't look like that will ever get implemented now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Also, the tax powers haven't been available at all since 2007 because of a dispute about who was to pay HMRC for an IT upgrade, Holyrood or Westminster.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish hibee
Respect to the people of Glasgow, Dundee, North Lanarkshire and West Dumbartonshire.
Sorry, not having a good day!!!!! Forgot to include link.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Was never very sure whether we would ever actually use it. I was one of the deluded fools who voted for the LibDems "1p on Income Tax, to pay for free Higher Education" in 1999.... and got screwed over. Since then, I have been very cynical about why it's there.
I think BBC article confirms this by stating that any tax take would be lost in implementation and set up costs.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Ok thanks..........never knew that.Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
I'm surprised, your posts always appear to show a good grasp of figures!Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Mind you, 15 years is a long time ago!
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/page...tland#petition
THE PETITION TEXT:
Dear David Cameron, Ed Miliband, Nick Clegg:
As the Scottish referendum campaigns came to a head, you made the Scottish people a series of promises. They included:
- new powers for the Scottish Parliament
- the power to spend more on the NHS if Scotland wanted to
- that the final decision on public services spending would stay in Scotland
Please stick to those promises on the timetable you agreed. Scotland won’t accept less
Thoroughly ashamed of being Scottish today. What kind of country doesn't want to control its own affairs? Its staggering that a majority of Scots don't want to do so and seem content with the 'pocket money' of a limited devolved parliament. Scotland the Cowardly and Fearful is more true than Scotland the Brave. Perhaps Scotland itself is just a sad myth.
:agree:Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint
This. I sing in a wee Scottish Folk band and we play the pub circuit here. The credibility of all our musical folklore was blown out the window last night. Our credibility as a nation died last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by lobster
Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
If all the over 65's hadn't voted then it would have been a Yes vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
The most interesting figure in that trend is the 18-24 vote, it is the only one which doesn't seem to fit in as it is the only age group below 55 that voted against independence. I wonder why that is, does anyone know how many non-scottish born students were registered to vote?
100% thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Hiberlin
Laughing stock..
Pathetic 😢Quote:
Originally Posted by lobster
It wasn't about the figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
The LibDems campaigned on that platform, and reneged on it as soon they got into bed with Labour.
Swine. Never been able to trust them since.
I can only assume that you are on the wind up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Actually, I'm pretty proud of that fact that 84% deemed it important enough to vote. Not ashamed at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by lobster
Although I do agree with the cowardly part - but not for the No voters.Quote:
Originally Posted by lobster
It's people too cowardly to take responsibility for their own lives. I'm unhappy and have achieved nothing so, instead of looking in the mirror and growing a pair, I'm going to blame everyone else (Westminster, the English, big business and now even the majority of voters in Scotland...).
[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4174140]Again, that's just you. And it's pretty reasonable to expect people to vote in their own best interest. It makes the most sense.[/QUOTE]
It does if you have that mentality.
I, and those I respect (and that includes both Yes and No voters) generally don't.
You can assume what you like. It doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by allmodcons
I'm not saying there's any problem with voting in your own best interest, but I do think it wasn't the primary concern for a lot of "Yes" voters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;4174166]Again, speak for yourself. So you only respect people that think like you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Before i start i voted yes. However the only people that blew it were the SNP/Yes campaign. This campaign has been rumbling on for nearly 3 years and still for the average guy in the street the YES campaign could not answer very important, highly crucial questions in a very clear concise manner leaving no question for debate or a chance to be disgracefully scaremongered in the last 2 weeks, which i feel swung the balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half Pint
Instead for the first year we got battered on the radio and other media that 16/17 year olds can vote. We got told free stuff would continue, we got told about nuclear weapons. Yet even now there is no absolute clear way forward on currency, taxations systems, monetary policy and actual real wealth figures from our resources. Now i concede that if we delve massively into this then answers could be found to a certain extent. However the BBC/headline newspapers dont do that they sensationalise it all to the average man. With scarmongering tactics that were deplorable of course people will become swayed.
All these points should have been debated to death long long before this campaign closed so that any dirty tactics which were definately employed 2 weeks upto the voting day would have easily been rubbished without question by the average man.
Salmond etc missed a massive opportunity by getting waylaid, involved in petty arguments and not focusing to ensuring mr and mrs mainstream new exactly the answers without as much doubt as possible about the really crucial matters. But hey at least 16/17 year olds got to vote..
Absolutely disillusioned by it all...a huge, historic opportunity wasted
[QUOTE=Colonel_HFC;4174170]Did I say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
If you read my post, I said that many people I respect voted differently to me.
1 in every 4 Glaswegians couldnae even be arsed getting involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Martini
I think that is a lot to do with the fact that (just going on what's been reported) a lot of the Yes vote (not all before you start having a conniption) came from areas with the most poverty. And ultimately they have little to lose if the Scottish economy was to fall apart (as many no voters believe it would). So the only vote in their self interest was to vote for any kind of change, which is what happened. So I do think everybody voted for self interest one way or the other. Even those English hating Braveheart types were voting for self-interest, albeit an emotional and idiotic one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Future17
I've already disproved that. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Of all the posts I've read I think this is the most pathetic and stupid one. Well done, on this thread that's quite an achievement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiberlin
I have a good job, happy marriage, couple of kids, homeowner etc. I've done fine by your criteria. I didn't vote in my own self interest financially, although I do judge it to be in my best interest to live in a country that's fairer to all and has a cohesive society. Actually my instinct is to grow a pair and move to one, it's only really wife's attachment to family that stops me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
A wee bit of advice, if I may. Pipe down and stop trying to wind people up. We know you are happy, but a lot of people are not, and your posts are not helping in the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Give it a break, by all means keep reading, but stop replying without thinking how others are feeling, please.
If you think you've "proved" or "disproved" anything then you need to learn English properly and realise what the verb "to prove" means. You have disproved nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
Yep. They're not the only ones though. Larger cities had a lower turnout than smaller places. 75% is a big turnout for them though, irrespective.Quote:
Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY
That really is rich coming from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
Is it hard being one of life's top achievers?
Well I've lived in a few. You'll find the same issues in most, just maybe without the chip on shoulder victim mentality that a lot of people in Scotland seem to have.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
You said "everybody voted for their self-interest".Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel_HFC
I didn't.
Ergo, not everybody voted for their self-interest.