You would be hard pressed to find a piece that was not to some extent biased, neither side and its supporters can claim the moral high ground when it comes to objectivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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You would be hard pressed to find a piece that was not to some extent biased, neither side and its supporters can claim the moral high ground when it comes to objectivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I wouldn't disagree with any of that I think you'd have to be biased to say that Israel has used any proportionality or respect for human lives throughout this. People saying whatabout dresden to defeat Hitler. I'd hope if the uk had precision weapons satellite imagery and a absolutely massive military advantage they wouldn't have destroyed a city, yet here we are with Israel doing thatQuote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
https://streetartutopia.com/2023/10/...JBdrKh13qSWq_Q
Have a look at this, watch the video. This is a powerful piece. How did he get in and out though?
https://x.com/drloupis/status/172801...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
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Add to the list of many heinous things the Israeli “ Defence”:force engage in dailyQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
organisers asked the wee fart not to appear Antisemitism protest: Tommy Robinson arrested | Watch (msn.com) but appear he did, telling the cops he was there in his role as a journalist, not quite right in the head
Tommy Robinson is an absolute *anny and I detest everything he stands for but the police treatment of him is worrying compared to some of the light touch policing of other marches.Quote:
Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875
30 odd police officers and pepper spray, he wasn’t exactly kicking off. Although his defence of journalism and free press is a bit of a joke
Two more days added to the ceasefire.[emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]
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Shame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
That is, obviously, good news for many reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
However, it more people are released on both sides, the Israelis will
just arrest more Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, as they have done over the last 4 days
Unfortunately, hostage taking has been the MO of both sides in this for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Really harrowing images online of the two boys being hit by sniper fire and killed in Jenin today. The IDGAF claim they were throwing explosive devices….apparently rocks are explosive these days.
The Israelis are not doing anything they haven’t been doing for years. Watching the young boy getting shot was harrowing. I didn’t see any rocks being thrown, even if they were it’s still unacceptable. No doubt the murderer will be free to murder againQuote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
Ceasefire, only in name and only where it suits them.Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
It's only a ceasefire in Gaza not that that doesn't make it not abhorrentQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Isreal is allowed to do as it wants, when it wants, with no hindrance from the western powers. The ceasefire allows hostages to be returned to Isreal, while for every Palestinian freed an above equal number are arrested and jailed. While allowing 700,000 Israeli “settlers” to illegally acquire land and houses in the occupied West Bank. The west is complicit in this debacle. Hopefully the western powers will ensure that the Palestinians achieve some sort of state when this is all doneQuote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
It’s not much in the great scheme of things but it’s a small step in the right direction.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/5/us-announces-visa-bans-after-warning-israel-on-west-bank-settler-violence
A lot of the settlers are American and I doubt they will issue many visa restrictions anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
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The west aren't just complicit, they are largely responsible.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
I can't help but feel that with Israel basically completely getting away with what they're doing, there's going to be horrendous and far reaching consequences for everyone.
In what sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67659296Quote:
Originally Posted by stokesmessiah
stuff like this...i just don't know how relations can be remotely normalised in the region after this - I worry that the Arab states, particularly Lebanon and Iran, won't be able to stand by if this continues, and that you then get the cascade of Iran pulling in Russia and the US ever closer to direct combat...and then we're hooped.
Russia aren't fighting the US in direct combat, they are using all their might to have a stalemate with a country using 1970s equipment. Countries like Finland and Poland would walk through Russia in a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
Iran are using their proxies to attack the US quite openly in Iraq and they funded the Hamas slaughter on Oct 7th pretty openly too, they won't fight head on, more likely doing nuclear deals together same with Qatar.
Israel will take out Hamas via thousands more civilians then pull out and the world will forget about it as they continue to resettle and steal land.
This isn't new they have been doing it for decades. Although Putin stole Crimea committed genocide on the local Tatars resettled millions of people in Crimea and people didn't say a word, not one march. Assad openly gassed his on people flattened Aleppo and killed thousands of children doing it, no marches there either.
Venezuela is currently trying to conquer half of Guyana and I don't any nation will do anything either
So US is the sole country to vote against UN resolution for a ceasefire, and UK abstains.
This WM Government is out to make the UK a pariah state. Not in my name.
The US routinely vetoes any UN resolution with regards to holding Isreal account for its barbarism so no surprise thereQuote:
Originally Posted by grunt
Hamas had the choice to release more prisoners for an extended ceasefire but refused...
Hopefully Hamas gets wiped out and then Netanyahus evil regime falls
Where are you seeing this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Everywhere. It was 20 prisoners for every day. They say they aren't releasing men or the last 10 women. US government say the last women aren't being released due to them being raped.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...-hostages/amp/
Don't know how true that is but it's undeniable that Hamas used mass rape as a weapon. Weirdos holding signs in the uk praising Hamas should be on a watch list. Worth a read for people thinking it isn't two evils colliding
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...t-67629181.amp
[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525268]Everywhere. It was 20 prisoners for every day. They say they aren't releasing men or the last 10 women. US government say the last women aren't being released due to them being raped.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill...-hostages/amp/
Don't know how true that is but it's undeniable that Hamas used mass rape as a weapon. Weirdos holding signs in the uk praising Hamas should be on a watch list. Worth a read for people thinking it isn't two evils colliding
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc...t-67629181.amp[/
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/12/despi...ocide-in-gaza/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/...e-wont-be-easy
[QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525296]That's one of the most messed up responses I've seen on here. Women that were raped at the festival gave there testimony journalist and UN staff were shown footage. If your searching for the other side of the story leads you to perverted rape denials your on the wrong side of the Internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
It's not tv you don't need good guys and bad guys. Hamas bizarrely denies atrocities even with go pro footage of them slaughtering kids and woman walking with blood coming from the crotch of their trousers.
Here's the primal scream of the mother of Naama one of the girls with bloodied trousers.
https://archive.ph/5K0sb
Truth usually lies in the middle. I wouldn't necessarily trust Israel, Hamas, the US or Al Jazeera Qatar owned funders of Hamas
[QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525334][QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525323]Qatar funds Hamas and shelters the leaders, Al Jazeera is owned by the same people. Not believing rape victims and independent observers isn't nuanced or showing caution its misogyny or antisemitism.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525323]The perversion is in your reply. I posted, without comment, a story on the issue being discussed.You then come up with a load of fantasist nonsense about tv, bad guys, good guys and perverted rape denials. You do remember the “ beheaded babies” lie.? I have absolutely no doubt that there are many primal screams being used in Gaza and Isreal right now.Whether these rape accounts are all true, partly true, made up or whatever, I have no idea.There are a number of points around this issue that demand caution. As I’m sure you are aware, the first casualty in war is truth. On both sides. As an aside do you have evidence that Al Jazeera fund Hamas?Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525345][QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525334]Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I know the leaders are in Qatar. I asked if you had evidence Al Jazeera funded Hamas. I suggest if you haven’t it’s best not to double down on such a claim.
[QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525350][QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525345]No Qatar funds Hamas its not even disputed and Al Jazeera is Qatari state owned. Obviously al Jazeera doesn't fund Hamas its a media channel, its owners do its not that complicated a webQuote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
https://www.calcalistech.com/ctechnews/article/lretnzx9l
Pretty interesting while almost no one over 65 doesn't believe, around 20% of under 35s don't believe the holocaust happened. Antisemitism is a massive problem, we should maybe be like Germany and take it seriously.
Attachment 27468
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...locaust-report
Al-Jazeera has suspended two journalists after they published a video that suggested Jews had exploited their supposed control of media, financial and academic institutions to exaggerate the extent of the Holocaust.
The video was uploaded with the caption: “The gas chambers killed millions of Jews … So the story says. How true is the #Holocaust and how did the Zionists benefit from it?”
[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525351][QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525350]Your previous commentQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
“Truth usually lies in the middle. I wouldn't necessarily trust Israel, Hamas, the US or Al Jazeera Qatar owned funders of Hamas”
[QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525364][QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525351]Yes I meant Qatar are the funders of Hamas, I made that pretty clear in multiple replies to be fair. Al Jazeera couldn't possibly be claimed to be impartial, either could the times of Israel.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
[QUOTE=Stairway 2 7;7525366][QUOTE=MKHIBEE;7525364]Fair enough. I have no doubt you are rightQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
I was at Mass this morning.
It's the 2nd Sunday of Advent and the 2nd candle on the wreath symbolises peace. In some Christian traditions it is also called the Bethlehem Candle. This year the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem is to remain in darkness throughout Advent and Christmastide and the Patriarchs and Bishops of the various denominations who multilaterally officiate the Church have asked Christians around the world who light candles on the Advent wreath to refrain from lighting the 2nd candle both today and in the coming weeks as a gesture of solidarity.
Of course some may see that as tokenism and as a futile gesture and I understand that. The decision to leave the Nativity Church in darkness is at least in part because it was felt it was inappropriate to show overt signs of celebration in the West Bank given the events in Gaza. There is a deeper reason though. Christians in the West Bank, along with their Muslim neighbours, are regularly subjected to low level intimidation and their access to their places of worship is periodically interrupted by the IDF and local armed 'settlers'. Anecdotally this is increasingly the case in Bethlehem. It has certainly been seen at Easter in recent years with members of the Orthodox Churches denied access to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem for the Holy Fire ceremony and other pilgrims intermittently verbally abused or spat upon.
I daresay for many such things are largely irrelevant. There's little love for organised religion so who cares? However when you see images today of the Israeli flag planted right in the centre of Gaza City and Palestinians being told to move even further south (final destination Egypt?), when you see Muslims regularly denied entry to the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Christians finding entry to their places of worship and pilgrimage increasingly difficult and the currently escalating, but under reported, driving of Christians and Muslims out of their homes in the West Bank then it starts to seem relevant. It feels like we have gone from seeing a potentially understandable if disproportionate response to Hamas violence to now seeing an assertion of religious extremism playing out in real time and rather than condemnation from around the world it's being done with international approval, tacit or otherwise.
It's almost impossible to see how this current situation ends with a two state solution and shared governance of religious sites ever being back on the table. Israel now knows that there is no requirement to make such concessions.
A view on the possibility of a 2 state solution to the present conflict
https://www.declassifieduk.org/the-t...nic-cleansing/
'....final settlement of the entire Gaza population.'Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Such rhetoric is chilling from anyone but placed in the context of it coming from the mouth of the leader of a Jewish state makes it seem even moreso.
There's been similar articles but decent from NY Times on how Netanyahu fearful of a strong PA let Qatar fund Hamas and keep them in power. Netanyahu will be voted out as soon as the war ends
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/w...-up-hamas.html
Which means he has an interest in prolonging it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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Nothing but full destruction of Hamas's Gaza leadership will suffice to his party, they are pretty united on that. They are moving through Gaza quicker than anyone I saw previously estimate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
He might think the military destruction saves him but I can't see it
They are moving through it and no doubt they have dealt a big blow to Hamas but as soon as Israel leave they will regroup and begin all over again. Given a two state solution is officially off the table per Israeli Govt comments, it seems like there is now no pathway for Palestine beyond taking up arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
The whole thing is horrendous and the West has been complicit in allowing things to get so bad (not just 7/10 but the overall failure of the peace process).
I don't think they will regroup to even a tenth of their size this decade. They had the freedom to make an immense tunnel network stocked with weapons. Most of both will be destroyed. Almost all military capacity will be wiped out, along with 20% of peoples homes shockingly. I can see similar happening to what happened to isis.Quote:
Originally Posted by neil7908
Israel will push for a puppet as long as its not the Palestinian Authority. They won't stop the ideology and hate towards them, it will obviously grow after the genocide we've seen and will see. They have been committing constant crimes against the public for decades, that won't change they will probably have more freedom to
Support for Hamas in the Gaza Strip and occupied West Bank has increased dramatically since October 7th and support for Abbas and the Palestinian Authority is down to around 10%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Top Israeli officials are now totally open about being against a 2-state solution, and are flirting with idea of 'Greater Israel' extending into and actually swallowing Jordan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Other top official said they want to nuke Gaza, thankfully there's a parliament and neither will happen just idiots spouting like our 50p Lee. Netanyahus far right government will be voted outQuote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
It may do but Hamas will no longer have a complex military system they will be a shadow of what they were for decades to come, see ISIS who many said couldn't be defeated. The ideology wasn't defeated but they are a little gorilla group rather than a countryQuote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Probably about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
😂Quote:
Originally Posted by lapsedhibee
https://turnerproofreading.com/gorilla-vs-guerrilla/#:~:text=They're%20not%20the%20same,unexpectedly%2 0without%20declaring%20war%20first.
You say Gorilla, I say guerilla. Let's call the whole thing off.
I think this is going to go on long after Gaza has been reduced to rubble and the Israelis have left. I feel there will be more armed resistance in the occupied west bankQuote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Definitely unfortunately, orphans won't forget. Can't see peace in my lifetime were a long way away from northern Ireland for example. Things have got worse this year but there wasn't really a path for true freedom for the Palestinians pre 2023Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Israel shoots dead 3 of their own (Hamas hostages) which confirms they are just shooting anything that moves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
“During combat in Shujayea, the [Israeli army] mistakenly identified three Israeli hostages as a threat. As a result, the troops fired toward them and they were killed,” the army said in a statement.
or he could have said were shot and killed as was the intention.
Disgusting. Shows what they think of the local populationQuote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
As one of them waved a white flag. That shows exactly the attitude of some Israelis towards Palestinians.
Yup - shoot anything that moves. I'm shocked they actually admitted this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
And just to make sure, they shot the injured hostage again after hearing cries for help (in Hebrew)Quote:
Originally Posted by neil7908
IDF spokesman says they will take no action against the soldier and will support him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveF
Because he thought he was shooting surrendering Palestinians? Very noble.
Even the Tories are calling for a ceasefire now. Starmer must really love what he is seeing.[emoji35]Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not sure it does. I wouldn't want to be an Israeli conscript in Gaza. Every object could be an improvised explosive device, every building could house snipers, around every corner could be a trap, every person could be a ploy to make them let down their guard. Fatigue, fear and many other factors will also have an influence on how the soldiers react to different situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Of course all that doesn't excuse what's happening, but I doubt that your average Israeli soldier is a bloodthirsty maniac. The blame for what we're seeing unfold in front of us is entirely the fault of the Israeli and Hamas leadership.
Or because his actions were in line with Israel's hannibal directiveQuote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
It certainly was, although I was under the impression that such a practice had ceased.Quote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
they say so, but i don't really trust anything the current Israeli regime says tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
I can understand that. If they told me today was Monday I would check the calendarQuote:
Originally Posted by AgentDaleCooper
The Israeli army on Saturday declared its soldiers guilty of the killings of three Israeli hostages in Gaza who were held by Hamas following preliminary investigations, citing them for acting outside the rules of engagement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
...
"An Israeli force began to advance towards the building, hearing the detainee inside crying for help in Hebrew (save me). The leader of the force asked him to come out at that point, but as soon as he did, an Israeli soldier opened fire on him from close range, killing him," according to the investigation
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east...-probe/3084538
Not sure what your point is Keith.Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
It’s not only Israeli hostages the Israeli army are killingQuote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/...any-of-its-own
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
No specific point, just giving the latest updates from IDF on the situation.
FWIW, I get your point about the mental state of the soldiers thrown into the situation.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-manger-square
This article paints a picture of how the war extends beyond the boundaries of Gaza. The Israeli government have emboldened extremists within their own community. When you read of the deliberate erosion of non Jewish communities in both the West Bank and Israel itself and the complicity of the government, IDF and other security forces then it's hard to see this as anything other than ethnic cleansing.
Predictably depressing that the West is complicit in this and yet are surprised of the huge levels of hared and mistrust of them. We still trying to win the Hearts and minds after carpet bombing cities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBHibees
Not his biggest fan but for one of the best examples of what happens to any critic of Israel, just look at Jeremy Corbyn.
I have trouble distinguishing between what the Israelis are doing in Gaza and what the Germans did in Warsaw. I know I'll get slated for drawing the comparison but before anyone gets laid in, please note I restricted my comparison to Warsaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
With one of the main drivers of the campaign being Starmer, that self confessed ZionistQuote:
Originally Posted by Keith_M
No argument from me, I think you are spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
The way our Government and the Americans are supporting this is horrendous.
How many times has Biden or one of his representatives implored Israel to protect civilians? It most be well into double figures by now. Which clearly shows they aren't doing it. So what's the next step going to be? They will strongly implore, whilst still sending over billions. Israelis are probably pissing themselves laughing.
We also announced we'd ban Israeli settlers who had committed violence. Completely bizarre strategy, as if their violence wasn't being carried out with collusion or at least approval of the state. Couldn't we, you know, put pressure on our ally to stop violence in the first place?
https://x.com/mairavz/status/1739364...dxJXScFNwz8V4A
Supported by the UK govt and the incoming Labour govts.[emoji35]
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'Ethnic transfer' sounds like something associated with an ideology that begins with N that you aren't allowed to say when talking about Israeli foreign policy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
If it talks likes a nazi and acts like a nazi, then it's a nazi. Netanyahu knows he has a free pass from the US while everyone else falls into line so he's doing what he likes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
No surprise a potentially incoming, Zionist, prime minister supports a Zionist policy. Not that I needed a reason not to vote Labour, but if I did there’s one right there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg
Actually, that's a very good comparison.
I've read a lot about that particular part of WWII and the similarities are quite striking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Boy
That really is shocking.
Which ties in with this issueQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/ne...ilding-in-gaza
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
Just out of curiosity, what exactly is the definition of a Zionist? Seen it used a number of different contexts l
Wonder if Starmer will put himself down for a new apartment.?Quote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
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Starmer is asking for the same as a good chunk of the population want I bet. Hamas to think of the population give up their fight and release the hostages in return for a ceasefire. Its never going to happen but if you say its ridiculous you must also admit a full ceasefire is ridiculously not going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The only thing that's created a ceasefire is releasing hostages. If Hamas wanted one they would release more. Two ****my sides will continue with as is with no regards to the population
‘They were going to do it anyway’ isn’t where I want my political leaders to be and certainly not where the Labour Party should be, especially when it comes to committing war crimes and ethnic cleansing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
This is one view on Zionism and how it can become an integral part of the solution which includes Palestinians
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...onist-genocide
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
If Israel wanted the hostages released they would agree to a ceasefire. The Hannibal effect seems to be part of the decision making here. I think Netanyahu has nailed Israel’s colours to the mast, the removal of as many Palestinians as possible with those that remain shoehorned into a tiny part of the Gaza Strip. Perhaps the UK will treat Palestinians the same as the Ukrainians?
He isn't he's saying they are going to do it anyway. He's saying Hamas release hostages and put down their weapons and Israel stop the bombing. Its hardly unreasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
As for the genocide they have been doing it for decades, politicians pick and choose when they make a stand against it. Israel and Russia gets vocal opposition. Complete silence and not one march and barely a comment on here when Assad did the same to Aleppo, Erdoğan has been committing genocide against the kurds for decades, 180 Christians slaughtered in a genocide in Nigeria yesterday, 1.7 million Afghans have been told to leave Pakistan this month tens of thousands are expected to die in the exodus.
I wouldn't expect much from our political class they care when they want a photo op
If Hamas wanted a ceasefire they would go to Qatar agree to release hostages and a ceasefire would happen. Why would Israel ceasefire when their ground operation is going fast. Both sides don't care about the hostages and are going to fight until the end, that's hardly surprising for two repugnant regimesQuote:
Originally Posted by MKHIBEE
The below is a letter that was published in our church newsletter on Christmas Eve. It's an interesting read for a number of reasons imo. Firstly I think it paints a picture of what life was like in Gaza a few weeks ago. Yes there was conflict but for many it was also typified by the banalities of every day life. Decorating a house, shopping, working, playing with children. And then what it is like now which seems like something beyond my worst nightmares. The only hope is that there is a majority on all sides who share this man's dreams for and desire of peace and in time their voices are heard.
(Apologies for any formatting issues, this was a straight copy and paste from a PDF)
"Rami Aljelda - I’m a Palestinian Christian in Gaza.
I want peace - for my homeland and my family.I have been living in Gaza my whole life but,honestly, I can barely remember the details of my life before two months ago. So much has changed — and it was already a year of major change in my personal life. In May of 2022 I married my wife, Maryan. Over the past year, we designed and built our house together, inch By inch. Maryan chose the colour of the curtains, the furniture. We did everything together, going here and there, to restaurants, to people’s homes. We had a life. We had community. And in June of this year, we had a daughter.
Even though we have lived through other conflicts before, this is the first one that has happened since I married and had a child. It is totally different. I don’t know how to describe it, but with everything that
happens to me, I always think about my wife and my daughter, Kylie. It is not like before. I have responsibility as a new father. We don’t set an alarm because we don’t sleep very well, and we also wake up from the sound of bombings.
We have a small community of Christians here — about 900 people out of two million. We all know one another because we are all one community. Of course, we have had bad times before, with smaller escalations happening.
But we were able to overcome them. We didn’t have to leave our homes. This time, we knew it would not be the same. Within two days of the start of the conflict, without any hesitation, my family went to St. Porphyrius Greek Orthodox Church. We have lived in the church for nearly two months. I can say we are
“living” in the church — not staying or taking shelter — because it’s really like we are living here. Each day we wake up in a hall with 300 other people. We don’t set an alarm because we don’t sleep very well, and we also wake up from the sound of bombings. There is nothing to do except help out in the distribution of food and water, but we have a lot of roles and responsibilities in this effort. After two months, we have gained a good deal of experience. We have a shower schedule for every person. We have a queue in the mornings for people to go to the
bathroom and a schedule for washing clothes by hand. We have only two hours of electricity a day if we’re lucky, because we don’t have enough fuel. During those two hours, everybody is charging their phones, their laptops, or anything they need. And we help each other to cook. We have to make sure that we have supplies that can last for a while because we don’t know how long this will go on. We haven’t eaten a single fruit or vegetable in more than 50 days. Every day that goes by is even harder than the day before. My daughter
hasn’t been able to get two essential vaccinations and is sick from the polluted
drinking water. The stress level is high. We didn’t think about food before, about electricity. They seemed like small things
in our daily life. Now, our entire days are scheduled and defined by them. We have zero connection with the Internet and a poor connection with mobile devices.
Sometimes we can’t reach our friends or our families who are not with us. Sometimes we hear bad news about our friends — news that we should have heard 10 days ago. But we’re doing all that we can to hang in there. We’re doing our best to stay strong. During the pause in fighting, my wife and I were able to leave the
church to go back to visit our home. I don’t know how to describe our visit. We might be better off if we had not had that chance to return. We drove my car and saw what has become of the city. Everything is on the ground. Demolished. You can barely recognize the streets. It’s a horror show. Words, videos, not even pictures can capture what it is like to drive through Gaza and see the destruction. It’s beyond comprehension. During the pause in fighting, my wife and I went back to our house to pick up some things — water and some food. We found our cat, Louki, who was really like our first child. He had survived. When we visited our home, we felt like it could be for the last time; our house could be the next to be demolished. We looked at every inch and corner of the home because we put it together. When I got married, I spent all my savings to build the house. I spent everything I had because I wanted to be comfortable living in our home, raising our
family. We never imagined that we could lose it so soon.
My dream is a place where I can live and work, where my wife is working, and my children can be living in a peaceful environment where there is no violence. More than 70 percent of the people here don’t have a home anymore. They also lost their stores, their
businesses. Many are living on the street. If the war suddenly ended now, nobody could go back to their lives before the conflict — even if their homes were standing - because they don’t have water or electricity or any
of the essentials needed to live. There are no stores, no supermarkets, nothing to buy. And even if they are able to rebuild, it would never be the same. They lost pictures, memories of their childhoods, their weddings,
their life milestones — belongings that nobody can replace or rebuild.
Now, since the fighting has begun again, we cannot leave the church at all. Currently, we’re hearing a lot of bombing around us. We don’t startle anymore when we hear heavy bombings. We know that the tanks are
around us. Two days ago, my car was destroyed because it was parked in a schoolyard next to our church. With Christmas approaching, no one here is going to celebrate as usual, even though we are living together here at the church. We have no desire to celebrate because we lost 17 of our relatives and friends here on these grounds in a bombing. It will be impossible to feel the happiness of Christmas—no decorating a Christmas tree or dressing in our best outfits. We will attend Masses only.
Honestly, we are not O.K. I can clearly say that my dream for my family now is totally different than my dreams the day before this crisis began. What I want for my family and what I want for Gaza are the same: peace. My dream is a place where I can live and work, where my wife is working, and my children can be living in a peaceful environment where there is no violence, where there’s no conflict with any other party. This is the only dream that I can imagine. This is what I want and what I hope for: a safe place where we can guarantee that there are no conflicts, and where people can really build their dreams and start building their
lives. I spent much of my childhood on the grounds of this church where we are staying. It has always been a close-knit, welcoming space. Since we are a small Christian community here in Gaza, we all know each
other. We have married within our community.
If the people here are not cousins or relatives, they would be extended family. We know that any moment could be our last. All the people who have died, they had dreams, too. They had parents or were parents.
They had families and friends who loved them, who searched for them, who miss and grieve them now that they are gone. I would want people to know that there’s another life in Gaza than this horror. There are civilians with hopes and dreams. There are people who believe in peace and who just want to live peacefully.
Rami Aljelda has worked as a senior project officer for Catholic Relief Services in Gaza for the last nine years.
He attended the Holy Family School in Gaza as a child and holds a bachelor’s degree in civil engineering and a master’s degree in data management. He lives in Gaza with his wife and daughter."
I know war happens elsewhere, it’s just that usually our govt doesn’t support it. And we should hold so called democracies like Isreal claims to be to higher standards. As far as I know, those other examples were not supported by the Labour Party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
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They aren't supporting I don't think, what I read he said that he wants Israel to ceasefire. He also wants hamas to lay down the weapons and release the hostages. I don't see how that's controversial. He was ripped on here for saying similar before then two days later there was a ceasefire in exchange for hostages released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
His new position is a ‘sustainable ceasefire with hostage release’.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stairway 2 7
That wasn’t his position before.
All conditions placed on the Palestinians. Nothing about settlements in the West Bank?
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Not like Starmer to change his position to try and gain credibility with the publicQuote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hibs4185
The meaning will depend on who you're talking to, as it's used by some people as a positive term, and others as negative.
One common definition is the right of the Jewish people to a home of their own, which sounds reasonable.
A different take on it is the right of the Jewish people to the land that once was Israel, nearly two centuries ago, no matter who they have to displace.
Interestingly, if you believe the bible (yeah, I know), the ancient state of Israel was formed by the Jews who fled Egypt, arrived in a land called 'Canaan'... and murdered every man, woman and child to make it their own land.
The scary part is that some members of the extreme right in Israel pretty much share the same point of view as those ancient predecessors... and when somebody is insultingly called a Zionist, they're often inferring that they share, or at least support, that viewpoint.