Generic Sevco / Rangers meltdown thread

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Originally Posted by Smidge

I would doubt that very much. If this was done pre-administration, it would be very easy to strike down as an unfair preference. If it is done in administration, given the size of the unsecured creditors, I'd be pretty confident that the administrator would quickly find himself before the Court of Session to explain his actions. Cannot see that a pre-pack would work here as it would quickly be seen as an attempt to defraud HMRC.

Apart from anything else, the SPL membership is not a liquid asset that could be so easily transferred....

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This.

As i see it appointing their own administrator would be an advantage but not a get out of jail free card.

duff and phelps appointed.

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Originally Posted by jonty

duff and phelps appointed.

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didn't see that one coming




:fibber:

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Originally Posted by Smidge

I would doubt that very much. If this was done pre-administration, it would be very easy to strike down as an unfair preference. If it is done in administration, given the size of the unsecured creditors, I'd be pretty confident that the administrator would quickly find himself before the Court of Session to explain his actions. Cannot see that a pre-pack would work here as it would quickly be seen as an attempt to defraud HMRC.

Apart from anything else, the SPL membership is not a liquid asset that could be so easily transferred....

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Pre-packs are invariably attempts to defraud unsecured creditors and they have been given the seal of approval of the courts, even though seeming to fly in the face of the insolvency legislation, which obliges administrators to have regard to the interests of all creditors.

You may have a point re the SPL membership but sure Whyte and his advisers will have thought of a way round this.

HMRC withdraw their application

On a day when Hearts paid their tax bill, they are now effectively hit with a 'yer no getting yer cash' post-it note from Duff and Phelps......the soap opera is great, and Vlad hasn't even taken the stage yet.

Rangers will come out of this......the knock on effect to other clubs however could be bigger. Let's see who Rangers owe money to now.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

It's quite exciting, almost like transfer deadline day thread.:wink::hibees

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So it is!

While I'm sure they'll eventually emerge from this smelling of roses, and we - as taxpayers - are possibly going to get fleeced, it's like watching a playground bully getting their come-uppance. In front of assembly.

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Originally Posted by Pretty Boy

This.

As i see it appointing their own administrator would be an advantage but not a get out of jail free card.

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I can't the administrator doing anything that hasn't been OKed or suggested by Whyte though. One big easy ride coming up for RFC and one big shafting for the rest of us.

So they have now gone into administration and will automatically be deducted 10 points.

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Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

I can't the administrator doing anything that hasn't been OKed or suggested by Whyte though. One big easy ride coming up for RFC and one big shafting for the rest of us.

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The administrator is Court-appointed, and duty-bound to act on behalf of ALL creditors, including HMRC. Any suggestion of bias will not be looked upon favourably by the Court.

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Originally Posted by Newry Hibs

I can't the administrator doing anything that hasn't been OKed or suggested by Whyte though. One big easy ride coming up for RFC and one big shafting for the rest of us.

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That may will be the case, but they will need to be very very very careful not to do anything that is challengeable by HMRC and other unsecured creditors.

feels like a huge anti-climax, so the hunns bring in duff/phelps, stinks.

And they have to pay HMRCs expenses. big deal.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

It's quite exciting, almost like transfer deadline day thread.:wink::hibees

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:thumbsup:

Anything of value transferred from the HUNS to HMRC.

When are the Hearts wages due to be paid? Is it the 16th?#

Would be convenient if the Big Huns and the Mini Huns could appear in the same court on the same day. The same allocation to each of them and home and away ends. I would buy a ticket to see that match.

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Originally Posted by s.a.m

So it is!

While I'm sure they'll eventually emerge from this smelling of roses, and we - as taxpayers - are possibly going to get fleeced, it's like watching a playground bully getting their come-uppance. In front of assembly.

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:agree: Let's just keep enjoying their pain - who knows, we may still get the best possible ending.

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Originally Posted by YehButNo But

So they have now gone into administration and will automatically be deducted 10 points.

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What a weak and ineffectual sanction. Teams should be put 10 points behind bottom club but SPL is hamstrung by the 11-1 voting system.

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Originally Posted by ehf

Pre-packs are invariably attempts to defraud unsecured creditors and they have been given the seal of approval of the courts, even though seeming to fly in the face of the insolvency legislation, which obliges administrators to have regard to the interests of all creditors.

You may have a point re the SPL membership but sure Whyte and his advisers will have thought of a way round this.

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I've been involved (mainly as an observer) on a couple of pre-packs, so I am aware that they are normally waved through by the courts. However, the extent of the unsecured creditors was a fraction of the secured creditors' rights. Given the scale of the unsecured creditors here, it is highly likely that the court would want to have a very close look at any proposals. If HMRC get a sniff of something that will do them out of a decent settlement, then I am sure that we would be running to the court to get an interim interdict to prevent anything being executed.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

What a weak and ineffectual sanction. Teams should be put 10 points behind bottom club but SPL is hamstrung by the 11-1 voting system.

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So what was different about Dundee's situation (they were deducted 25 points) or Livingston who had to start in Div 3.

http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?a...7&d=1329229267


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


:wink:

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Originally Posted by YehButNo But

So what was different about Dundee's situation (they were deducted 25 points) or Livingston who had to start in Div 3.

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They were governed by Scottsh League and not SPL rules.

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Originally Posted by YehButNo But

So what was different about Dundee's situation (they were deducted 25 points) or Livingston who had to start in Div 3.

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That was SFL rules.

We're having a party when the Huns die!

Get your hankies ready for the media stories of the 'plucky' players struggling on through difficult times.:boo hoo:

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

SPL is hamstrung by the 11-1 voting system.

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That 11-1 voting system might see Rangers (or whatever the resurrected team are called) refused entry to the SPL.
Whilst most clubs will want them back in, due to gates and TV money, all it takes is 2 teams to vote against it and they will be left floundering in the lower divisions.
The bottom team would retain SPL status so it's in their benefit to do so. Mad Vlad might well vote them out after getting shafted for the Lee Wallace money (and the huns being part of the "mafia"). No love lost between Rangers and Aberdeen. Even Celtic might be against them for fear of a fans backlash (or just for SPL domination).

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Originally Posted by HibbyAndy

http://www.hibs.net/attachment.php?a...7&d=1329229267


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


:wink:

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:greengrin

One with Ally McCoist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzJG...=youtube_gdata

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Originally Posted by Smidge

I've been involved (mainly as an observer) on a couple of pre-packs, so I am aware that they are normally waved through by the courts. However, the extent of the unsecured creditors was a fraction of the secured creditors' rights. Given the scale of the unsecured creditors here, it is highly likely that the court would want to have a very close look at any proposals. If HMRC get a sniff of something that will do them out of a decent settlement, then I am sure that we would be running to the court to get an interim interdict to prevent anything being executed.

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Let's hope so: it would be great if, as well scuppering Whyte's scheme, this resulted in a test-case that will prevent the widespread abuse of the administration system that has been allowed to develop by the sanctioning of pre-packs.

In the meantime, here's hoping Celtic take their foot off the gas on Sunday!

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

Get your hankies ready for the media stories of the 'plucky' players struggling on through difficult times.:boo hoo:

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If the mighty hawrts lose out on the Lee Wallace saga then good - the chickens have come home to roost in their case.

However I do feel sorry for Dundee Utd if they are left floundering for the £100,000 in gate money which they're still due for the Cup Tie at Ibrox. That seems grossly unfair and I would hope that the SFA have some sort of emergency contingency fund to cover scenarios like this one.

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Originally Posted by Golden Bear

If the mighty hawrts lose out on the Lee Wallace saga then good - the chickens have come home to roost in their case.

However I do feel sorry for Dundee Utd if they are left floundering for the £100,000 in gate money which they're still due for the Cup Tie at Ibrox. That seems grossly unfair and I would hope that the SFA have some sort of emergency contingency fund to cover scenarios like this one.

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Deduct Rangers' sponsorship money?

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Originally Posted by StevieC

That 11-1 voting system might see Rangers (or whatever the resurrected team are called) refused entry to the SPL.
Whilst most clubs will want them back in, due to gates and TV money, all it takes is 2 teams to vote against it and they will be left floundering in the lower divisions.
The bottom team would retain SPL status so it's in their benefit to do so. Mad Vlad might well vote them out after getting shafted for the Lee Wallace money (and the huns being part of the "mafia"). No love lost between Rangers and Aberdeen. Even Celtic might be against them for fear of a fans backlash (or just for SPL domination).

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Any club voting to readmit RFC would have to answer to their own fans.

I am not sure if the 11-1 voting rule will apply to this sort of issue. That is restricted to financial matters as far as I understand things.

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Originally Posted by ehf

In the meantime, here's hoping Celtic take their foot off the gas on Sunday!

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Lets hope they send out their reserves

Gazza gazza wheres yer rod...

strathclyde polis saying that they need guarentee they get paid or they wont police anymore gers games :faf:

Strathclyde Polis saying they will not police Rangers game unless they are assured they will be paid!

Wonder what money will be required to police the next OF game at Ibrox? You can't see the Celtc fans avoiding the chance to extract the urine. :greengrin :greengrin

PS If games are cancelled because the police refuse to turn up, would Rangers forfeit the points?

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Originally Posted by Lupo

strathclyde polis saying that they need guarentee they get paid or they wont police anymore gers games :faf:

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Surely this means that they cannot fulfill their fixtures, in which case may they not face further sanctions beyond the 10 points?

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Originally Posted by jgl07

I am not sure if the 11-1 voting rule will apply to this sort of issue. That is restricted to financial matters as far as I understand things.

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You're right, 11-1 is for financial issues. For league issues it requires 10-2. For all other (minor) issues it requires an 8-4 majority.

"Any change to the size in the top flight, whether an expansion or reduction, requires a 10-2 majority, ie 83 per cent. Any change to the distribution of income needs an 11-1 vote (92 per cent). Most other resolutions, such as an earlier start to the season, play-offs and winter shut-down, can be passed with 67 per cent backing, an 8-4 majority."

I'm guessing that Rangers getting into the SPL would need 10 teams to back it (or 2 teams to block it, assuming that Rangers wont be allowed to vote).

If it's still us and Dunfermline fighting it out for relegation when the vote comes around then that could be 2 teams right there.
I'm also tempted to think Mad Vlad would vote against them (unless he gets a "back-hander").
Hard to say what way Celtic would vote.
It's quite possible that their SPL status would not be a "given".

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Originally Posted by jgl07

Any club voting to readmit RFC would have to answer to their own fans.

I am not sure if the 11-1 voting rule will apply to this sort of issue. That is restricted to financial matters as far as I understand things.

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Only 6 Clubs are required to change the conditions of entry to the SPL.

Rangers will frig the Admin, not pay HMRC, pre-pack liquidation and re-emerge as Glasgow Rangers FC where it will only need 6 Clubs to allow them straight back in.

This will be done for the good of the game in Scotland i.e to satisfy Murdoch/Sky.

Hearts will then do exactly the same.

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Originally Posted by Lupo

strathclyde polis saying that they need guarentee they get paid or they wont police anymore gers games :faf:

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Ouch! Beat me to it! :wink: :not worth

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot...68827780_n.jpg

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Originally Posted by Lupo

feels like a huge anti-climax, so the hunns bring in duff/phelps, stinks.

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Sorrybut I'm trying to catch up with this. Can someone explain why appointment of Duff Phelps is an issue? I'm guessing too close to Whyte but in what way?

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Originally Posted by StevieC

You're right, 11-1 is for financial issues. For league issues it requires 10-2. For all other (minor) issues it requires an 8-4 majority.

"Any change to the size in the top flight, whether an expansion or reduction, requires a 10-2 majority, ie 83 per cent. Any change to the distribution of income needs an 11-1 vote (92 per cent). Most other resolutions, such as an earlier start to the season, play-offs and winter shut-down, can be passed with 67 per cent backing, an 8-4 majority."

I'm guessing that Rangers getting into the SPL would need 10 teams to back it (or 3 teams to block it).

If it's still us and Dunfermline fighting it out for relegation when the vote comes around then that could be 2 of the 3 teams voting against them to ensure SPL survival.
I'm tempted to think Mad Vlad would vote against them (unless he gets a "back-hander").
Hard to say what way Celtic would vote.
It's quite possible that their SPL status would not be a "given".

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But admitting |"Glasgow Rangers" would be neither an expansion nor a reduction, rather a continuation of the status quo.

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

Sorrybut I'm trying to catch up with this. Can someone explain why appointment of Duff Phelps is an issue? I'm guessing too close to Whyte but in what way?

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I think they acted as his advisors when he took over Rangers. Maybe have previous with his other companies, too.

So not entirely impartial or disinterested.

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Originally Posted by GloryGlory

Strathclyde Polis saying they will not police Rangers game unless they are assured they will be paid!

Wonder what money will be required to police the next OF game at Ibrox? You can't see the Celtc fans avoiding the chance to extract the urine. :greengrin :greengrin

PS If games are cancelled because the police refuse to turn up, would Rangers forfeit the points?

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Would hope that the SPL would hammer them with another 10 point deduction .. At least ...

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Originally Posted by Cropley10

Only 6 Clubs are required to change the conditions of entry to the SPL.

Rangers will frig the Admin, not pay HMRC, pre-pack liquidation and re-emerge as Glasgow Rangers FC where it will only need 6 Clubs to allow them straight back in.

This will be done for the good of the game in Scotland i.e to satisfy Murdoch/Sky.

Hearts will then do exactly the same.

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Can't see any way Scottish Football could continue if this was the case.

Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by GloryGlory

I think they acted as his advisors when he took over Rangers. Maybe have previous with his other companies, too.

So not entirely impartial or disinterested.

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Thanks for that. I know nothing about Company Law but surely the Court should appoint the administators? If that's not the law just now then it should be.

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Originally Posted by LeithenHibby

Would hope that the SPL would hammer them with another 10 point deduction .. At least ...

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Would actually think (hope) relegation to a lower division may be in order for failing to fulfill fixtures! :greengrin

PS A 10 point deduction per each unfulfilled fixture could do it. Would expect Strathclyde Loyal Polis to somehow find a way of policing matches if this were the case!

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Originally Posted by Lupo

strathclyde polis saying that they need guarentee they get paid or they wont police anymore gers games :faf:

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Quite right. They have enough unpaid old bills :wink: already.

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Originally Posted by GloryGlory

I think they acted as his advisors when he took over Rangers. Maybe have previous with his other companies, too.

So not entirely impartial or disinterested.

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I'd imagine HMRC will be taking a close look at every decision they take, while i expect Duff and Phelps to try and help the huns, they are still bound by the rules. If D&F's try it on, i'd expect HMRC to appeal anything dodgy? They want paying and will be doing their best to get it.

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Originally Posted by GloryGlory

Would actually think (hope) relegation to a lower division may be in order for failing to fulfill fixtures! :greengrin

PS A 10 point deduction per each unfulfilled fixture could do it. Would expect Strathclyde Loyal Polis to somehow find a way of policing matches if this were the case!

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Not out of the question considering that was the reasoning for Livi being dropped to Division Three (albeit by the SFL rather than SPL).

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Originally Posted by Big Frank

Can't see any way Scottish Football could continue if this was the case.

Ridiculous.

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I have only just started to go back to Easter Road after the 10-team SPL fiasco last year.

If Rangers were admitted straight back into the SPL it would finish me off for good with Scottish Football.

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Originally Posted by GloryGlory

Would actually think (hope) relegation to a lower division may be in order for failing to fulfill fixtures!

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Is that not what happened to Gretna? Or was it Livi?
They were unable to give guarantees that they could fulfill their fixtures, so they were dropped to the bottom division?

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Originally Posted by StevieC

Is that not what happened to Gretna?
They were unable to give guarantees that they could fulfill their fixtures, so they were dropped to the bottom division?

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They were liquidated anyway after Mileson withdrew his financial guarantee.

They reformed but did not apply for readmission to the SPL.

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

I'd imagine HMRC will be taking a close look at every decision they take, while i expect Duff and Phelps to try and help the huns, they are still bound by the rules. If D&F's try it on, i'd expect HMRC to appeal anything dodgy? They want paying and will be doing their best to get it.

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I think this quote from the Scottish Government suggest the Hunz will get away with this

Sport Minister Shona Robison said Rangers current plight was "a concerning situation for everyone involved in Scottish football".

She said: "Football is our national game and it is now for the administrators to take forward the process of assessing the business and securing an outcome in the best interests of the club, its staff, supporters and the game of football as a whole in Scotland."

...and here was thinking that one of the main roles of the Administrators is actually to try to sort out a fair deal for creditors - including us as taxpayers in this case?

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Originally Posted by StevieC

Is that not what happened to Gretna? Or was it Livi?
They were unable to give guarantees that they could fulfill their fixtures, so they were dropped to the bottom division?

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We could have the polis going round Ibrox on match day displaying sponsors' logos, as the establishment found a way to help out the good old 'Gers by paying their police bills! :greengrin

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Originally Posted by StevieC

Is that not what happened to Gretna? Or was it Livi?
They were unable to give guarantees that they could fulfill their fixtures, so they were dropped to the bottom division?

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It was the SFL, this is SPL. No the same, which is a real shame.... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

I think this quote from the Scottish Government suggest the Hunz will get away with this

Sport Minister Shona Robison said Rangers current plight was "a concerning situation for everyone involved in Scottish football".

She said: "Football is our national game and it is now for the administrators to take forward the process of assessing the business and securing an outcome in the best interests of the club, its staff, supporters and the game of football as a whole in Scotland."

...and here was thinking that one of the main roles of the Administrators is actually to try to sort out a fair deal for creditors - including us as taxpayers in this case?

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Isn't Nicola Sturgeon the MSP for Govan? I can see a rescue package looming.

What will happen is Mr whyte will start a new company called Huns Fc for example no debt aquire all assests BUT the big question is will they be allowed into the SPL

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Originally Posted by Smidge

That may will be the case, but they will need to be very very very careful not to do anything that is challengeable by HMRC and other unsecured creditors.

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Can't imagine that they would do any such thing and that the process will be carried out in line with current Insolvency legislation and practice! :wink:

As I said earlier, if CW's advisors in the plan to set the club up for such a move as has now happened are now to act as Administrators to RFC, then they will have been very involved in the deal structure and, presumably, in achieving a structure which served the ambitions of their client in maintaining control over RFC and its assets no matter what! Whether they would be able to manipulate financial elements of the administration which was to the legal detriment of other groups of creditors whose (unsecured) interests must be looked after along with those of the more protected secured creditors such as CW or the lending (to RFC) company by way of a bond and floating charge or some form of fixed security secured over specific property is questionable within the legal constraints that they will be working within I imagine! :cb

How could there be a 10-2 vote or 11-1 vote if Rangers are bust? There would only be 11 teams in the SPL.

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

I think this quote from the Scottish Government suggest the Hunz will get away with this

Sport Minister Shona Robison said Rangers current plight was "a concerning situation for everyone involved in Scottish football".

She said: "Football is our national game and it is now for the administrators to take forward the process of assessing the business and securing an outcome in the best interests of the club, its staff, supporters and the game of football as a whole in Scotland."

...and here was thinking that one of the main roles of the Administrators is actually to try to sort out a fair deal for creditors - including us as taxpayers in this case?

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I'm not quite so sure its that clear cut? This is a huge case, even by british standards. And the right thing has to be seen to be done. Gone are the days of running roughshod over folk. Tax payers are keen these days to see companies pay just what they owe, and the law is the law. I dont think this can just be swept under the carpet, they might get away with paying less, but it will be transparent, and there for everyone to see.

On a serious note a lot of people are now going to lose their job over this and I don't mean the highly paid top players. When an administrator goes into a business they quite quickly make people redundant.
Expect youth players and non day to day essential personnel to lose their jobs this week. This is the real tragedy in all this

Rangers will be back to normal in 1-2 years, playing in the same stadium but with all the debt wiped out.

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Originally Posted by Lofarl

How could there be a 10-2 vote or 11-1 vote if Rangers are bust? There would only be 11 teams in the SPL.

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While they are in administration, I am sure that the administrator will wield their vote.

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

I think this quote from the Scottish Government suggest the Hunz will get away with this

Sport Minister Shona Robison said Rangers current plight was "a concerning situation for everyone involved in Scottish football".

She said: "Football is our national game and it is now for the administrators to take forward the process of assessing the business and securing an outcome in the best interests of the club, its staff, supporters and the game of football as a whole in Scotland."

...and here was thinking that one of the main roles of the Administrators is actually to try to sort out a fair deal for creditors - including us as taxpayers in this case?

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I think people forget how entrenched Rangers are in every nook and cranny of scottish society. I think they will somehow get out of this relatively unscathed due to people in supposedly impartial positions who will look after them. Even people with no interests in football will be worried about being traceable as an individual who helped pull the trigger. Most of the media are already in tears and not once has anyone mentioned that this is their own fault.
This is a dark day all right but not for the reasons they are all stating.

I would like to thank Glasgow Rangers Football Club for some wonderful memories over the years.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...sproule203.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...oconnor270.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...Dickoh-005.jpg

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Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs

I'm not quite so sure its that clear cut? This is a huge case, even by british standards. And the right thing has to be seen to be done. Gone are the days of running roughshod over folk. Tax payers are keen these days to see companies pay just what they owe, and the law is the law. I dont think this can just be swept under the carpet, they might get away with paying less, but it will be transparent, and there for everyone to see.

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In PR terms I agree, in £ terms not so! :cb

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Originally Posted by SlickShoes

Rangers will be back to normal in 1-2 years, playing in the same stadium but with all the debt wiped out.

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How so?

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Originally Posted by TornadoHibby

In PR terms I agree, in £ terms not so! :cb

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:agree: Thats what i was meaning to say, and every media person in the land will be looking in on it. The BRITISH :greengrin tax payer wants to see things done right, not everyone in the uk is a hun apologist, they will need to do things by the book, there are a lot of people out there who will try their hardest to make sure thats the case. :greengrin

Anyone else hear the rubbish being spouted on talk sport just now? Scottish football should help rangers in their time of need :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by PaSaikouKujabi

I would like to thank Glasgow Rangers Football Club for some wonderful memories over the years.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...sproule203.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...oconnor270.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...Dickoh-005.jpg

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I concur :agree:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLV-DCTD2OA

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Originally Posted by SlickShoes

Rangers will be back to normal in 1-2 years, playing in the same stadium but with all the debt wiped out.

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I agree, more or less, I can't see much changing in Scottish football due to this. Celtic will have the next few leagues won with Rangers second, then it'll be back to the way it's been for years.

And I don't believe they'll have 'learnt thier lesson' either, in 5 years time they'll live outwith thier means, knowing that the consequences aren't all that terrible.

I'd love to be wrong though.

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Originally Posted by Smidge

While they are in administration, I am sure that the administrator will wield their vote.

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Would the administrators job not be finished by the time to vote on the newly created Rangers looking for entry? Therefore they would not have a vote.

Don't count on Hearts voting for them either, do they not stand to lose out on the balance from Lee Wallaces transfer fee?

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

Anyone else hear the rubbish being spouted on talk sport just now? Scottish football should help rangers in their time of need :rolleyes:

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Aye, thum, a load o tripe...

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Originally Posted by HibeeDave

Would the administrators job not be finished by the time to vote on the newly created Rangers looking for entry? Therefore they would not have a vote.

Don't count on Hearts voting for them either, do they not stand to lose out on the balance from Lee Wallaces transfer fee?

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No, don't think so as it is likely to be a condition of any deal to bring them out of administration or for someone acquiring the assets in liquidation that there is a continuation of SPL membership.

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Originally Posted by HibeeDave

Would the administrators job not be finished by the time to vote on the newly created Rangers looking for entry? Therefore they would not have a vote.

Don't count on Hearts voting for them either, do they not stand to lose out on the balance from Lee Wallaces transfer fee?

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The administration doesnt affect their league status - that'll only happen if they're liquidated.

Liquidated

Rangers

Sounds so nice when you say it together.

Liq-uid-ated

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Originally Posted by jgl07

If Rangers were admitted straight back into the SPL it would finish me off for good with Scottish Football.

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Even though I only attend very rarely these days I sent my mate a txt saying exactly the same thing about an hour ago. You would seriously have to ask "Whats the point?"

This is giving me the Valentines Day horn.

What is the punishment for not being able to fulfil games?

Is it like the SFA discipline fines were it gets doubled every time the person / team offends?

If Rangers fold and re-emerge as a new company they should be hoofed down to the 3rd division.

It would be absolutely ludicrous for them to kick off next season in the SPL with no debts.

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Originally Posted by cwilliamson85

What is the punishment for not being able to fulfil games?

Is it like the SFA discipline fines were it gets doubled every time the person / team offends?

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Livi got punted to the 3rd division for it, but that was the SFL.

I'd think certainly the opposing team would be awarded set 3 nil wins perhaps? But then you could argue that's unfair on the other clubs.

I guess it depends if it's 1 or 2 games, or if they can't guarantee fulfilling any games, in the later case they'd surely have to be booted out of the league. Can any one remember any plans that were made when Gretna were clinging on? Certainly expect Rangers to be forwarded TV / Prize money ahead of schedule to try and keep them going till seasons end.

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Originally Posted by .sean.

This is giving me the Valentines Day horn.

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I get the feeling that a few people could end up shooting prematurely about this situation.

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

Anyone else hear the rubbish being spouted on talk sport just now? Scottish football should help rangers in their time of need :rolleyes:

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Those english ****s were saying exactly the same yesterday, ****in morons.

For a start they are not close enough to scottish football to form such an opinion and secondly the huns would have been offski down to the EPL if they had been allowed.

They don't give a **** about scottish football so why should scottish football give a **** about them?

I hope it's a slow painful death.

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Originally Posted by Mikey

If Rangers fold and re-emerge as a new company they should be hoofed down to the 3rd division.

It would be absolutely ludicrous for them to kick off next season in the SPL with no debts.

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I agree - but that is exactly what is going to happen. It's probably been Craig *****'s plan all along. And to add insult to injury, it's going to be funded by we taxpayers.

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Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

I get the feeling that a few people could end up shooting prematurely about this situation.

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We are looking at Motherwell on a slightly bigger scale. A few players and office staff will sadly lose their jobs and creditors will get shafted. Meanwhile Motherwell look likely to qualify for Europe this year.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ScottB

Livi got punted to the 3rd division for it, but that was the SFL.

I'd think certainly the opposing team would be awarded set 3 nil wins perhaps? But then you could argue that's unfair on the other clubs.

I guess it depends if it's 1 or 2 games, or if they can't guarantee fulfilling any games, in the later case they'd surely have to be booted out of the league. Can any one remember any plans that were made when Gretna were clinging on? Certainly expect Rangers to be forwarded TV / Prize money ahead of schedule to try and keep them going till seasons end.

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Think they would still be able to fulfil their games, it would just be behind closed doors but obviously that would cause other issues as there would be a lack of income and ST holders would not be happy.

officialpompey: @RFC_Official All the best to all the staff and fans. We are thinking of you in these tough times. Good luck. #togetherwearestronger


'together we are stronger' - cos financially they can help each other right enough. :cool2:

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Originally Posted by Paisley Hibby

I agree - but that is exactly what is going to happen. It's probably been Craig *****'s plan all along. And to add insult to injury, it's going to be funded by we taxpayers.

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So essentially, we, the taxpayer have funded years of overspending and dominance by the most odious, corrupt, backward organisation ever? While clubs who 'play the game' the right way are left behind scrimping cash and offering pittance in comparison? And at the end of it all, the only real damage is minus 10 points in a essentially 'dead' title race?

What a mad world we live in....Makes you wonder who the real mugs actually are...

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Originally Posted by Mikey

If Rangers fold and re-emerge as a new company they should be hoofed down to the 3rd division.

It would be absolutely ludicrous for them to kick off next season in the SPL with no debts.

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If this happened, that would be it for me and Scottish football - would be saying 'spend your way to oblivion, but hey it's ok, liquidate, dump the debt and rise from the ashes as a phoenix club and we'll ratify you.'

Disgusting.

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Originally Posted by frazeHFC

officialpompey: @RFC_Official All the best to all the staff and fans. We are thinking of you in these tough times. Good luck. #togetherwearestronger


'together we are stronger' - cos financially they can help each other right enough. :cool2:

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All of these thieving pricks can GTF.

Surely though the Huns are going to have to lay off players, if they lay off so many surely they are not a shoe in for 2nd place. How can they be allowed to keep guys like McGregor, McCulloch, Naismith, Lafferty, ie the bigger earners?

People keep going on about Motherwell but look at Portsmouth down south, they've gone into Administration again!! I dont think it will be easy for the huns. Surely they are going to have to cut their cloth accordingly and pay wages more in line with the rest of the SPL clubs??

Surely it can't be as easy to rack up massive debts then call in admin and pay 10p for every pound due?? If that's the case it's no wonder the country is screwed

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Originally Posted by HibeeDave

Would the administrators job not be finished by the time to vote on the newly created Rangers looking for entry? Therefore they would not have a vote.

Don't count on Hearts voting for them either, do they not stand to lose out on the balance from Lee Wallaces transfer fee?

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No. The SPL will pay Hearts with money deducted from Rangers share of prize money/TV money should it become necessary.

Did I just hear on Sky Sports that Rangers also owe 9 million to HMRC to do with the takeover of the club and PAYE since the takeover? If thats the case, where has the money been going? The ticketus money?

I've just heard Rangers have entered administration and been docked 10 points, truly a sad day for anti-football.

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Originally Posted by moff1875

If this happened, that would be it for me and Scottish football - would be saying 'spend your way to oblivion, but hey it's ok, liquidate, dump the debt and rise from the ashes as a phoenix club and we'll ratify you.'

Disgusting.

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Only if you're one of the mankies though. If the tax payer is left holding the baby here and the sum total of Rangers' punishment is a 10 point reduction, then I've had it with Scottish football.

If the rest of the SPL members let this happen then **** them too.

"Oh what a parcel of rogues in a nation".

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Originally Posted by the_ginger_hibee

So essentially, we, the taxpayer have funded years of overspending and dominance by the most odious, corrupt, backward organisation ever? While clubs who 'play the game' the right way are left behind scrimping cash and offering pittance in comparison? And at the end of it all, the only real damage is minus 10 points in a essentially 'dead' title race?

What a mad world we live in....Makes you wonder who the real mugs actually are...

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Pretty much hammer meets head of nail there. Scottish football is a joke. Cheats prosper and will continue to do so.

After my initial glee at Ranger's plight wore off I'm actually quite angry and depressed at what's about to happen.

The political, legal, financial and media establishment will close ranks around their beloved Rangers. Lots of hand signals and aprons helping out there too.
Our football "authorities" will bend over backwards to break what little feeble rules they have, to accomodate Rangers.
Celtic will have a good laugh, but will then close ranks as they need their Ugly Sisters partners to feed off in that bigoted, symbiotic parasitical way they have developed.
Many other SPHell clubs will follow suit as well, fearing the loss of the crumbs from the table.

The outome will be:
A club called Rangers will still be in the SPL next season and competing in Europe.
They will have no debt and will continue to spend way over the odds, stealing players from well run clubs as they go.
Their fans will continue to be moronic, cretinous, bigoted glory hunters.
The existing creditors, especially the taxpayer, will be told to go pound sand and will lose everything.
Cheats and bullies will continue to prosper in Scotland.
Those who play by the moral rules will continue to struggle.

I hope to gawd I'm wrong and that some semblance of payback and natural justice will prevail, but knowing the history of Scottish Football and the Scottish establishment, I won't hold my breath.

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Originally Posted by Spike Mandela

We are looking at Motherwell on a slightly bigger scale. A few players and office staff will sadly lose their jobs and creditors will get shafted. Meanwhile Motherwell look likely to qualify for Europe this year.:rolleyes:

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It's different from Motherwell. Most of their debt was owed to John Boyle, who eventually decided to write off that debt. Whyte can't do that with HMRC.

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Originally Posted by Matty_Jack04

Surely it can't be as easy to rack up massive debts then call in admin and pay 10p for every pound due?? If that's the case it's no wonder the country is screwed

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It isn't. The creditors would need to vote to accept that.

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Originally Posted by hibs13681

Did I just hear on Sky Sports that Rangers also owe 9 million to HMRC to do with the takeover of the club and PAYE since the takeover? If thats the case, where has the money been going? The ticketus money?

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Confirmed by the administrator

http://www.mcr.uk.com/duff-amp-phelps-appointed-administrators-of-rangers-football-club.html

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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher

Anyone else hear the rubbish being spouted on talk sport just now? Scottish football should help rangers in their time of need :rolleyes:

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Help them! Frackin help them! What crack pipe are they smoking! After they have bled the rest of the game dry, and cheated and shafted their way to trophy after trophy!

I have to go lie down now as my blood pressure is peaking!

Rangers are now some distance behind Celtic and the title would appear to be sown up but didn't they overcome a similar margin earlier in the season?