Try explaining why it does!Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
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Try explaining why it does!Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Yup, makes the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
You said "it doesn't effect the other nations of the UK" how did you come to that conclusion?
You don't know do you?
Forgetting the act itself for a minute, what’s the process for a s35 order? I take it it will go to court but who is it that will have to bring the case?
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It doesn't affect the rights of transgender people in England, Wales or anywhere else. All that the legislation will change is make it less traumatic and difficult for transgender people to be recognised for who they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
Mark Drakeford has said that Scotland has made the right decision and I suppose Wales will look to introducing similar legislation meaning that Westminster is out of step with the rest of the UK.
But I am asking how you know that for a fact? So the UK Lawyers are wrong, why are they wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
And I've asked for your proof of what effect it has on transgender people in England? But I'm not expecting any because you don't know either.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
The difference is I never claimed it did, I would wait until the actual lawyers make their review clear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
You seemed certain it has no effect on UK legislation so I asked how you knew that, so it turns out you don't know at all and you are basically guessing.
I think Alister Jack can jet in from his grouse moor and do it himself without needing a court.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
I think the issue is that there has been a lot of talk about a clash in the laws. But no-one has said "HOW" that alleged clash plays out in terms of how it affects people in Scotland, in language that we can all understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
If we had that, perhaps the debate could be had on a decent basis.
That's why I challenge people who make statements as fact, how can they know? Turns out they don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
If you are going to say it doesn't impact UK laws I wanted to know how that conclusion was made.
On the flip side, if people are going to say (or assume) that there is an impact, we need to know their basis for doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
And what's what we are waiting to find out. If no impact we move on and the Bill gets Royal Assent. The reports seems to suggest it won't be as simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
If I decide to recognise as a woman using the new rules in Scotland do I use woman's changing facilities when in Newcastle even though English law wouldn't have allowed me to recognise as a woman?
Is that the/a problem?
AIUI, you can do that anyway, under current GRA (English and Scottish) and EA legislation. Equally, under the EA, the other users of that space can ask for you to be excluded.Quote:
Originally Posted by danhibees1875
The new GRRA doesn't change that for the Newcastle situation. It's the intention of the GRRA that it won't change in Scotland either.
Hmm, thanks- but i think it's beyond me now. :aok:Quote:
Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod
[QUOTE=weecounty hibby;7233924]Would you say one conversation with one other person is a good barometer of public opinion?Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi...gn=Social_Flow
The end of devolution.
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Let's see which MSPs have a backbone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
The GRR, which removes any sort of checks and balances when it comes to applying for a GRC, will (if it receives royal assent) apply only in Scotland. However, it's the SG's contention that GRCs issued under the new law should be accepted anywhere in the rest of the UK, where regulation around GRCs is stricter. On that basis any institution outwith Scotland refusing to recognise these GRCs would potentially be in breach of the Equality Act. An example would be a male prisoner from Scotland in an English/Welsh/NI prison receiving a Scottish GRC and requesting a move to a women's prison. Essentially, the SG are trying to amend UK equality law.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns
Personally I remain unclear why, if equality matters are reserved, why this bill ever saw the light of day at Holyrood.
I suspect Sunak was hoping one of the feminist groups which campaigned so hard against the legislation would get him off the hook here and initiate legal proceedings, but I gather funding for such a challenge is short following their previous legal battles with the SG.
What should certainly not happen is for bad law (which this bill is) to pass unchallenged simply because Westminster are worried that might be a bad look. They should draw confidence from polling which shows majority public opposition to hhe bill and give Sturgeon the fight she's so clearly spoiling for. She may not end up looking too clever.
Edit: I see they have now done just that.
[QUOTE=weecounty hibby;7233924]Very good point this. It’s why I’ve pretty much stayed out of this thread too.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
As someone who usually has no problem forming a strong opinion and arguing stubbornly about it (even with limited knowledge) 😁, I find this topic really difficult.
As always, there will be some loud people on both sides, and some with genuine reasoning. But for me it’s about the toughest political debate I can remember in terms of having a strong view on one side or the other.
And no doubt some of those loudest voices will have their strong opinion based on “sturgeon” seeing as being on the opposite side.
Now that we can’t pass legislation that the Tories in England don’t like, I’m wondering what the point of the parliament is?
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Hardly. Sturgeon looks to have over-reached when it comes to Holyrood's devolved powers here and the UK government's move is perfectly within the provisions of the Scotland Act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
Who has over reached has still to be determined.Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
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6 years in the making, most consulted Bill in the Scottish Parliament and they can't even check if the legislation is compatible with UK law. What were they doing for 6 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by He's here!
It is compatible with UK law. They went to court over exactly that.Quote:
Originally Posted by James310
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Who did?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozyhibby
A s35 Order requires that its precise legal basis be explained. That explanation will (or should) be published when Jack lays the order before Parliament.
Once that has been established, IMO the likelihood is that the next move will be in the Court of Session.
Slowly Scotlands rights will be no more, the democratic Scottish Parliamentoveruled because Westminster dont like it, welcome to Brexit Britain.
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/about-u...on-reform-bill
No real point posting this stuff I suppose. It’s now a constitutional issue.
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